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Flying the Skyview: the ILS-lite

Dgamble

Well Known Member
Skyview 15 has added some nifty new features, but one in particular intrigued me. I call it ILS-lite.

With this version, you can select a particular runway to land on at your destination. If you do so, you can then configure the Skyview to provide vertical glideslope guidance to the autopilot. Note that this IS NOT a true ILS approach - it does not use and land-based navigation equipment. It is also NOT an approved method of making a real live instrument approach.

But it IS quite interesting.

From page 7-47 of the most recent users guide:

When a specific runway is selected, a SkyView Flight
Plan can provide vertical navigation (VNAV) guidance
to the selected runway, including commanding the
AP to fly a specific glideslope. When the glideslope is
captured, the AP will fly the necessary vertical speed
to stay on the programmed glideslope. In this mode,
the glideslope vertical speed is indicated in the VSI. In
Figure 127, the blue tick mark shown in the VSI is the
calculated vertical speed to fly the glideslope and the
magenta line is the vertical speed necessary to arrive
at the selected runway threshold (or specified height
above).

To enable SkyView?s Flight Plan VNAV capability, prior
to flight go to SETUP MENU > MAP SETUP > VS REQ?D
OPTIONS and enter your desired VNAV parameters.

This is a short video of one of my early attempts to use it:

https://youtu.be/oOr-myyeoKs

I still have a lot to learn about it, but it looks like it could come in handy someday.

And I apologize in advance for the low quality video.
 
My GRT EFIS has a similar feature, synthetic approach, that I use quite often when flying at night or to an unfamiliar airport in a congested area. It will couple to the AP, however I currently don't have one. It creates an approach highway in the sky at the standard glidepath, unless an ILS with a non-standard glidepath exists - in that case it emulates that approach.

It is a great tool to confirm you are lined up with the correct runway, correct airport (!), etc, and also helpful on those dark nights with limited visual cues.

Again, not to be used in IMC, but I think it's a great situational awareness tool.

Chris
 
GRT has had that feature since FOREVER! :D I've heard more than one story of it saving someone's butt in weather they got caught up in. For emergency or VFR-playtime use only... Obstacle clearance definitely not assured. It is handy when you're really lazy and don't want to kick the autopilot off until short final.
 
This feature is becoming fairly common in the modern EFIS systems. Garmin has something similar and so does AFS. It works great for doing a straight-in approach to any runway.

And, yes, it has been in the GRT systems forever, called the SAP.
 
MDA and Go-Around functions too!

Dave, you didn't mention the MDA and GA functions. I found the MDA bug on the bugs menu and enabled it. You can set the MDA with the left joystick/knob. Once set there will be orange digital readout of your set MDA and also an orange bug on the altitude tape.
Here is a screen shot, and in this case the plane has descended to minimums and there is a visual MDA warning on the screen as well as an aural "MINUMUMS" warning.
i-Qb7S9rq-L.png

Also, if you have the pitch autopilot menu on the screen you will see the GO AROUND button. Push that GA button and the autopilot will immediately nose up at your default VS, switch to TRK, and there will be a warning to "ADD POWER" on the screen.

Of course, there are no approaches on the SkyView navigator, so you will have to set your own desired climb and track or heading on the go-around.

Lots to learn about this little computer ;)
 
Have you been in touch with the folks at Dynon to see why it did not transition from VNAV to ALT per the autopilot annunciation?
 
Jesse, can you further explain the feature that Garmin has that is similar to this?
Cheers,
Tom.
 
Jesse, can you further explain the feature that Garmin has that is similar to this?
Cheers,
Tom.

Garmin has a vnav to a preselected altitude, so I don't know if they have added a runway selection option, but you can set the altitude you want to descend to and it will give you a vnav to it, then you use lnav to handle the lateral. It's not exactly the same, but can be made to act in a similar fashion.
 
Dave, you didn't mention the MDA and GA functions. I found the MDA bug on the bugs menu and enabled it. You can set the MDA with the left joystick/knob. Once set there will be orange digital readout of your set MDA and also an orange bug on the altitude tape.
Thanks, I'll check that out next time. It would definitely be helpful to receive an alert!
 
Have you been in touch with the folks at Dynon to see why it did not transition from VNAV to ALT per the autopilot annunciation?
No, but I did realize (too late, as is my wont) that I needed to consult the A/P chapter as well as the Nav chapter in the Users Guide. It states that Alt Hold should be on prior to engaging the VNav mode. I suspect that might have had something to do with it. I'll try it in the plane again before asking Dynon.
 
I use the GRT's SAP HITS boxes on moonless nights going into 08A, which has no visual approach slope lighting, nor any significant ground lighting clues for the last mile or so either way. It's a black hole, with RPZ paths cut into the trees on each end. .

Here's the catch. Flying the HITS boxes in the daytime tells me that I should not rely on them as a primary guide to obstacle clearance. I've seen enough variation to know that I should be OK if I'm in the top of the boxes, and it compares properly with the runway view. There's absolutely no way I'd let the autopilot do it.

In fairness, the GPS driver here is a 696, not a WAAS unit; I don't think it has anything to do with EFIS capability. And this isn't any sort of instrument approach, which would have an MDA well above the trees. I'm talking about obstacle clearance, i.e. using the HITS boxes as a VASI substitute.

Ok, so if you're thinking WAAS would fix everything, don't. Annual inspections are usually a state agency task. Trees growing into an approach path will often result in a provisional airport operating license with an order to clear the trees, or expect a displaced threshold in the future. Depending on the players, it can be a long time before trees get cut, and I have no idea if or when displaced threshold information might reach an EFIS. Here ins the deep south trees grow fast. I know I've flown a few daylight passes at local airports where the center of the boxes had the trees right there. The best avionics money can buy won't change that problem.

Great tool, but be cautious, please.
 
With the GRT, it will allow you in the setup pages to choose a glidepath angle for the SAP, 3 being default, like most ILSs.

I like 4 degrees for my SAPs. Keeps a better gap above those trees.

Fixed pitch prop, ground idle 700 rpm, almost always full flap landings.

As Dan said, even a 5 or 6 degree may find close in trees if the threshold is displaced far enough and not reflected on the EFIS.
 
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I was trying to put a runway at the end of the flight plan, but when I select a runway and press add to flightplan I end up with the Airport reference point instead of the runway.
When I select the runway and press direct it will select the runway and I can select waypoints before the runway and add it to the flight plan to build a new flight plan.

So what is the procedure to add a runway at the end of the flightplan during flight without canceling the present flight plan?
 
As far as I can tell, there's no way to add a runway at the end of a flight plan. The best Iv'e been able to do is to wait until I get close to the end of my flight plan. Then I display the flight plan page > select my destination airport > select INFO > move to the Runway tab > select the runway I want (use the selector knob to make sure the small green arrow is pointed towards the desired runway) > select Direct To button. That wipes out my orig FP and replaces it with a single waypoint named (airportID).(selected runway), eg KDED.12.

At that point, the HSI shows a CDI for the "localizer" indicator and a HSI Bearing 1 pointer that I *think* points to the airport but not sure.

I'd like to be able to add it to the end of my FP but don't see a way to do that.
 
Gents,

My partner and I went up this morning to try out the 'poor mans ILS' feature for the first time. Although things worked basically as advertised, there were two peculiarities that did not fit what I have read about the new feature:

1- The autopilot consistently tracked a bit left of runway centerline by a few hundred feet. I had read that a problem in HITS could cause this, but I do not have HITS enabled.

2- Per what I have read here on the forum, as well as the Dynon forum, I expected VNAV to continue the approach THROUGH the minimum altitude selected in setup. However, it leveled off each time at the selected minimum altitude. That behavior seems OK to me, but its not what I expected.

I'm running Skyview version 15.1.0. As mentioned, HITS is disabled. Anybody else notice these behaviors?

Thanks,
Alex
 
Gents,

My partner and I went up this morning to try out the 'poor mans ILS' feature for the first time. Although things worked basically as advertised, there were two peculiarities that did not fit what I have read about the new feature:

1- The autopilot consistently tracked a bit left of runway centerline by a few hundred feet. I had read that a problem in HITS could cause this, but I do not have HITS enabled.

2- Per what I have read here on the forum, as well as the Dynon forum, I expected VNAV to continue the approach THROUGH the minimum altitude selected in setup. However, it leveled off each time at the selected minimum altitude. That behavior seems OK to me, but its not what I expected.

I'm running Skyview version 15.1.0. As mentioned, HITS is disabled. Anybody else notice these behaviors?

Thanks,
Alex

There is mention of both of these on the Dynon forum. I believe number 1 is being looked at as a possible bug.
 
Pitch for Airspeed, Power for Glideslope

As a pilot who was taught "Pitch for Airspeed, Power for Glideslope", how difficult is it to switch your mindset, assuming that you have never been IFR trained?

I'm not trying to start a discussion about which is best, I would just like to understand how difficult that mental switch is for most people.
 
As a pilot who was taught "Pitch for Airspeed, Power for Glideslope", how difficult is it to switch your mindset,
e.

The truth is that sayings like this are a pretty good approximation to real airplanes, but not perfect, and not quite good enough for precise ifr flying. You need to make coordinated use of both pitch and power to stay on GS and on airspeed. e.g., if you are on-speed and level at GS intercept, you'll want a substantial (about 4" MP) power reduction and a small nose up trim. It just takes practice.
 
Dave Gamble,

Just watched your UTube video regarding vibration dampening on the GoPro. During that video, you did a VNAV approach which turned out a bit different than your first one from a while back. This time the autopilot leveled you out at 400 feet, unlike the first stab at it. This is the same behavior I noticed a couple days ago. See post #19 in this thread. I also noticed that the LNAV portion put you left of the extended centerline and the runway. Exactly the same as my experience.

I notice you posted on the Dynon forum regarding the VNAV not leveling off at the pre-set 400 feet. They responded saying that is normal behavior. Obviously not!

I would like to see Dynon address the left of course behavior, as well as clarify what is proper VNAV behavior when the target altitude is reached.

Your thoughts and perhaps some input from Dynon would be very helpful.

Thanks,
Alex
 
I posted to the Dynon forum last week regarding the left of centerline problem when using VNAV. Dynon replied saying that they see that behavior also, and it might be a bug. Gee, no kidding?
:)
Alex
 
The difference seems to be whether or not ALT Hold is enabled prior to selecting VNAV. Or put another way, the difference seems to be whether or not you found the 2nd set of instructions in the Autopilot chapter. When flown as Dynon stipulates, I believe it will level off and hold the selected altitude. Mea culpa.

Dave Gamble,

Just watched your UTube video regarding vibration dampening on the GoPro. During that video, you did a VNAV approach which turned out a bit different than your first one from a while back. This time the autopilot leveled you out at 400 feet, unlike the first stab at it. This is the same behavior I noticed a couple days ago. See post #19 in this thread. I also noticed that the LNAV portion put you left of the extended centerline and the runway. Exactly the same as my experience.

I notice you posted on the Dynon forum regarding the VNAV not leveling off at the pre-set 400 feet. They responded saying that is normal behavior. Obviously not!

I would like to see Dynon address the left of course behavior, as well as clarify what is proper VNAV behavior when the target altitude is reached.

Your thoughts and perhaps some input from Dynon would be very helpful.

Thanks,
Alex
 
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