What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

CPI Install RV-10

Dustyone

Well Known Member
My aircraft has just turned 2 years old and we have flown just over 300hrs.

While there are a few other threads about CPI install,I thought I would share my experience as it goes together.

http://www.sdsefi.com/cpi.htm
When Ross first released the CPI (Coil Pack Ignition )and the early adopters starter showing their results,I was hooked . At last there was a true maintenance free ignition system that once installed and configured would do exactly what it was supposed to do without further adjusting or maintenance.
No moving parts at all.
As a LOP WOT flyer that sometimes use mogas,having the feature to easily adjust my timing by just one switch,sealed the deal for me.

The kit arrived and I started the install.

Crank Angle Sensor.
I decided to order the Dual Crank Sensor as I plan to in the future install the second ignition. You can install the sensor without removing the prop,but I wanted to "Armour Plate "all the wiring that was near the flywheel and this made the task way easier.
I used some 3/8" 5052 tubing left over from my fuel system to run the wires and clamp in position .

bcjMgG8sw7n2mfczMJEx5xWuBsRn3pOd8Ts8cumFGgeCfe3w8y0oq8N-360BhS3lzshyK76SarjQCIfBWok-Q2wsjWhPXElWBZXuxdJjMEaHjzyk7A2qo3fHlSRlElzxd95M0b2QdNI3zU9KXrOqvfTCNFR_RFxxlVdpQOz4HSXmzr_cPtNG-AY9nVn1n5E0nmYgRCWeogMNwJ6-4BysLekV080Q8ZG7FqjwTJ-NpzyTXGvGidBH2g6EALkuChBmarJ3xl-aKydxl5jMLzX2cdPVqD6sIFZMJhPyVoEEaT3CaRe3dxJmXC36I7IbhggkiSPsyszLLuMXFiSV1sJCZtNZRcpUNe6usMw_PO2BCjZDH9Pf23c2YBx-xuXhTELkF2-Lr61XXDOzOslJ8uSApBgCNVyzzib4htl-H17QvuUX3o8XFIYI5ZuADiEpQe0Nba3LUnin10FB3E0gv_RV8RFn4axFNgBnJ-9YZKkxoNgp3FLnro2u9xnqCC5Wmb1gpXe2byYLrVcSE6eYeGg3OSE-zz7DCGXCVDpCIz40uIimPrRl5ESNFIw4yDG2lrZK1vGn-hAHjdILAk6QLX9DY94Dh9lfGjyfFQmUi32w6asW7oLr=w520-h693-no


2eRitZAMpkbK_TInOw3d8G1Fbg5kfQb57ucakVtZycuEd3GFnAXFCdjia01YXHbLJGF8mRYiraVIlXZVz6QA08oL8BNUcqYeeCDJOZRvyi1DAZfZgVu7PiZAuDLJgU6qCfMasxhmmomCOQ5upJuSlvWszqQRfxMONnjrSYSQzHocAjnfBqpG9X1hUyNYDnJ38Qp1A4osahcM1IagY4UlrW1G150rfQ9wEGa0F0ZqvwZNJBsxkcqRSlPubbx4Dlm3thrazU6y59JiG50Nos--JIVvF7LeNWRbrB45ElXdqIz2hWscZsRKkf3k_tewLcThop9TfKmGcs5SwiOEeXwQqgC7ZXGudQO9GKw2w-ZP54arCv3a9QvFlSw6QUP27gPI7FsMy63xswi7aEuRV94N89cgzDvyas-WyIgZRoLEhzAMqzKfMnXNyW3myX9atrl63T6qHKepJZpTExTpAVVF6w5RAxEWiefbXsy0GiitzN4r_u01Nuv4E8uZ3DC1NmQkFzKrF7S9YP1tP_Muf-lx-u38J64NmZnUZRh5fsQpe-vE4vxH4dmdz1YcpeNfoKrKTuEmSizhQmVVTtTyzru1HC72r-Nh_LVnczEl3Gn28jV3fXPu=w924-h693-no


Coil Mount
While Ross has provided many options for mounting the coils,I had always wanted to use the space on top of the engine frame.With the coils mounted up high and the R/H Mag now removed,I can see my oil filter from the side for the first time. It should make the next oil change a lot easier.
I made a new coil mount bracket from some scrap 1/4" T6 alloy that I had.
It was a fun day in the shed with my new drill press and trusty jig saw.
A couple of adel clamps and it was rock solid mount for my new coil packs.

jG94utTmVwkCh2V4wF8TXkTtTLKwrK2SWRILT109iXtSCXM0FqObddXrqXQ9LbjJRHtofFV4sSztIdggvXpDaaO5TUCQMkebZfNoo7FvFhKj_WPF8J7Cu8XvzeM_52EARqsq3HMC1L2VqAlEfs5Sd2R7Jy8UYgD4uFYysDWjLBDYgdRNRMUz1-qJbISeHKKahDOd6yrFHTXig1RTBl-lqh8I7X6SZ8sSxPM_IJrAPC3_BPQdyS1mH0n528K7N_Dz3i6KuelWsiQ5JD3hmRl32huoa8C2y3fwO6sJEpG4JHLXJ2QcXpiryKnMnum9MhRMY9r-r8EOtTbFOgJ7jaMMMZIDlbYN2huBkB5PzwME0zVKx1aP1jaRN8vA8tYJZH7ynB9BI8xAdM18YPbXMxZWYsMlCEwJKKE7QHE8ofX5b5zTVOojGP3JWdbGQ511tcWVnrSTZpagDj3JlXJUOv3pHQTUdT4j4WS64VA4kp7jbCNYyfAdL8zwJo2mhaU-HL7C5FPQdPWPZoF0K_bpHYav8NPlw3jXFkBF0FSZA2Ow-RZq776cpkf5zJEY5J-xpQmZ3a7jPkrXDMuWBX1517vcmUd3_EDS6RUaXpBtNwHyJoxIFlfy=w924-h693-no


IUpcF0fZD2qdQsO9lbNeYtIe9Ayc4HyZfR8UwEN9JjLgow7Bof6sNVLi2ndwPXGJrL_h2ZOijALEc2HmgJfvbtCNj9VnZdTwFhfHumukUDluAbBpeAdh71VoVwjuwunjAmVWWTaVWGFQdBma_PzP2KY8oodNEMiqAaIICdkHXHZE6mRrdKzkKMEDsk3mDV50Tn5ra8HTuYfBiSWpTJaCI1KUtreSVnWuQVndzjEQAiZb4lN3UTFO3PvJ3Paw8NYfkG05fXb1zT6kCC-pMUpjr5mJYh-5UPhZseTSja8DoPw1nWqQRoaXxMDcfbqZZeJ8cAdwOVpFTn4f_G8J_xiLw5slvzMSSthO4wASf5t3dQsNsZ6vdm12veIsl5mt4Ban5dmrDx4eXKLberEQoZO-SKbiEVr-8sfCOg0pDyaDGf0p637qd3d30Wjv1QCdZ0zrqMyWiunkmJwkDi0Bhs-92KtPzMd-PfulG0fCJ98TVYIevEG5lfB5Zk-7Fw7e-ayYkJuPwqTnZl8VYwolmD4aPd9bGvYt-oMt9OGTtfOluhQwPyStlpq4BY47rn31ziNhDLq3UASyBxbhnOj8PMu2HRpk9kVSkZ18n4TTsKrtozJJdv0f=w520-h693-no


Weight
I weighed all components as I removed them and added in all the new parts.
The CPI system is 500 grams lighter than the Mag I removed.

Spark Plug Wires.
The Wires are the high quality MSD 8.5mm Super Conducter wires with the stainless clip on leads. These are cut to size as you install them.I sourced some cable clamps from the local hot rod shop to tidy up the install

fD_TMK5LPC_xVO3mmsv9OMF4VLofw2o9wOTPAalmASk6-vRT16CLu4CGrntXfrC6_20oK2ZRWG_sAqkUMyWtQ9a7DEXi03EDBxGtObczk2L-JcCHS2999IPFSqXfGuc-6dNSszX2EfyKcTm342jUTlZfbMhdS-2_jOw2XXEw00lUMWi9HjmZNrWMH7B-BRfzU_hJfAMgliLxCekyb9oGIwGuph1FNQZI0rrD7i38DwuyzcAKFj24RWmUNXqfUvK2rXcUw8ZSHCE5Etfl29o5DvV6znV3yYAkiXn-M1nKMAXV742E7vnBsXGQqpbsftBjlvdKCdkkOiuitpht7g6TO29K5YILHz9cLe2S4VnyTqNXIvpQF-NBHJ_-4qu7szC-TbWDHCgphinBep4xLNp8MlY5Y8KOhuioOGiBO279kkXkdCV0HTvfHan4SfZawf5cG87AJXnhaFzMwp46CpBxyUSp7OWGAHzxzggxPda08YFzxfjLwGfqbKH-2bz8nJrccJUa8JpqTkU70EuVRGmyBn4HQ4K4x-OJtMzYMuGHRZkvk9vb8upgwuVvzbcr1pEf-tDb7LUmn-F8atiblOUfaAHfXtBhPHALuDp-zzZx9NnaM4ov=w520-h693-no


4rPVBCBcSiXsjz4tQYQvGSkgPQWR-9M_F0bE7Kd0hVK6gJhG9ic0gZa-mlLtNCoHKJ_brEcyV7dZ8Kc8UqKJNInLOHrJVN_05U88WvH8A4CEJDHq55u1NqVN4j7h9cXPy_uGvX2CvUl_0O_M427jF80JTkk5lO-aDyJN6vK1Zq8iQ4cWIppuS83h09A9K5TxZSAKTdNp-YQguCQrl8GZn2HzFhuDbMwH8z3rYMEXd0m2dNatvTM12AToOqw-FqdcI8-KenyaLNlOSRln8iEzuk-0f7qHoPskPIuKBZJVLAkpg6Rbrl78iwx0nsGk-Gc0jAsRc2AlL1Ddd5u-o77_YzRfGZeXAOkvBCu9pNJBPif4J83CwjZfw1CkZqSblJTlN92Yt_w2CaJdDLPiNTgQI1VbqPrqBfpDKTr42ixP6g4zED_rC0zEHpr7dyGzHsRPEz9f5sw3uR_B8XGMozDFP5vxV0LmB_l3fiIxCmLHGXrBI2TFwHlgqS6PZ6aHKAWasPZhpsKPDjaiIqZqs8LZZOqejb_vkeI-rzpfzWKse71s2vjRwltbdnEWNu45HoxlqeBulEM4RToerwsns735iaJd2jP7_3qihrVIYjPK_F2wWJSV=w924-h693-no


That's all for now as I am about to start my journey to Oshkosh where I hope to meet some more of you and put a face to the names that are on these forums .

Any comments or observations are most welcome :)

Pictures of install so far :
https://goo.gl/photos/8AaYZWRqRVQkXo3j7
 
Last edited:
Ashley, looking good.

I am getting close to being done with a dual CPI install myself, good to see how others are doing things.

What are you doing for ignition switch/s and starter switch?
 
Hi Mike,
From the beginning I had installed 2 X toggle switchs and a push button start.
So , I'll just be re- wiring one of my toggle switchs.

I am at the airport now and will spend the next 30 odd hours travelling to Chicago via Vancouver .

Finally on the way to Oshkosh !

Cheers
 
Looks great Ashley. Sure feels good to get those magnetos out of the way, doesnt it?

Philisophical question for the rest of the CPI gang: Since the engine cant be hand propped, why do we need an ignition switch?

My ignition is "hot" with the Master switch. If I really need to be "extra safe" or am performing extensive maintenance with the battery on, I just pull the ignition breakers. I feel that a separate switch only adds one more failure point.

Thoughts?
 
My coils will be hot with the master on-----either main or aux------but the CPI boxes will be switched via locking toggle switches.

631H~22V.jpg


I like the option to switch off the ignition if needed, without having to reach clear across the panel to the breakers, also it makes for an easy mag check.

I did ditch the ACS key switch in favor of a simple on/off switch from Stein, as well as the "Push to Start" he sells. Key only controls power to the start switch.
 
I strugled with the ignition switch thing too, but in the end I just couldnt think of a realistic circumstance where I would want to kill the ignition without killing ALL electrical.
 
Last edited:
My two cents with regards to the switches. The Rotec engine has dual electronic ignition and I used toggle switches as well. i used three different types of switches before I landed on one that I liked. One feature that I found important is the ability to secure the wires to the switches with screws vs blades. I had a blade vibrate loose on one of my earlier switches. After that I swapped them out for something with a screw. I don't use blades at any point in the wiring of the ignition system. Also I have two sources of power and ground running from two different points on the airframe.

BK

My coils will be hot with the master on-----either main or aux------but the CPI boxes will be switched via locking toggle switches.

631H~22V.jpg


I like the option to switch off the ignition if needed, without having to reach clear across the panel to the breakers, also it makes for an easy mag check.

I did ditch the ACS key switch in favor of a simple on/off switch from Stein, as well as the "Push to Start" he sells. Key only controls power to the start switch.
 
Hi Michael,

Removing the L/H Mag and mounting the coils on top sure gives you a lot more access to the back of the engine.
I am actually looking forward to my next oil change,it wasn't that hard to get to before,but now it is so easy to get to.
The improved access is going to be handy for future maintenance on the control cables and front gear tower.

I chose to keep the toggle switches and push-button start. I have a VP-X (awesome) dual alternator and single battery.
However the CPI will operate on its own simple E-Bus.

I can understand your logic with no switchs,maybe it's a pilot thing :)

Cheers
 
performance advantage....?

Could someone comment on the performance advantage seen in the RV-10 for the electronic ignition over the traditional mags, would love to hear some real numbers on the IO-540 to help make a decision. Sold my RV7 to a person who had complete engine failure with dual electronic ignition system, so that alone has me concerned. So want to hear more about the realized performance advantages. The oil change & "extra room" is a non-factor for me but I get that it is for some. Thanks in advance, Mike.
 
Can you comment more about the "complete engine failure" ? Was the failure caused by the EI in some way?

Concerning the performance benefits, you can certainly look to my threads on CPI with my Rocket. You are not going to get my speed in a -10, but since it is the same engine you can sure extrapolate the results easily enough.

Short of that, I know there are a few -10 CPI "show and tell" threads in the making that will include performance data.
 
dual EI failure...

this was not my plane that went powerless and my understanding it is under investigation, since it should not happen due to a single point power source "issue". I look forward to seeing the upside of a CPI dual EI system, always open to improvement, but always using my risk assessment chart too. Cheers, Mike
 
this was not my plane that went powerless and my understanding it is under investigation, since it should not happen due to a single point power source "issue". I look forward to seeing the upside of a CPI dual EI system, always open to improvement, but always using my risk assessment chart too. Cheers, Mike

The upside is you can have any timing curve that suits your compression ratio and the fuel you use plus you have an advance switch to optimize LOP operation as Michael's flight testing showed. You also might find the price point attractive for the features you get and the CPI won't do something funny or dangerous to your total advance if the MAP hose falls off.

Any dual EI system should have separate power sources available and possibly another backup as in 2nd small battery or alternator. With the cruise current draw being down under 2 amps, you don't need much battery to stay running for a couple of hours.

If 2 EIs makes you very uncomfortable, you could retain one mag and just install one EI. This gives you something like 75% of the benefit of two, once programmed correctly.
 
great info/options

Thanks Ross, nice summary of benefits. Really have been looking at the one-mag replacement, especially with the lack of an impulse mag on the IO-540 from Lycoming and having to buy the separate electric spark booster. Not sure if I can get credit from Lycoming if I have them hold back on shipping out the left mag with the new engine. Cheers & thanks again for the info, Mike
 
CPI Install Part 2

Hello all,

Just an update,

Since returning from Oshkosh, I have completed my CPI install and Annual Inspection.

For the CPI module to know where it is in relation to the timing marks,you first have to do an Initial Timing of the CPI.
The instructions explain that you set the timing to 10deg BTDC and then trans scribe a mark on the case that can be see while the engine is running using a Timing Light hooked up to No1 Spark Plug.
N4aX27WrCnxET8X-E2kESEL27UXkUyIqywcy6uQj_8lJsF_ZKHShqAqeD-8QXUkhUnq-8-i_mrTx0lShVy-zLbYVIDYbg7TEhGkYOPCOGhruu6qA3Reg3GQ5QXBoujYQXWGXHOA5hp-oTO0EvyC94AuZK34aNrIj8rsnqF4Wsdmg6gWuVYv0QZep60mY_s53vENY2hs8fwV5EyMHqKMjihfDeD7UeTgyYicmYEdFwC_jP9kpL_hVbXBtmnT_9oazTpVTC6RLI2yUvz-GmRJ_2ZYYGC7YKadVBbJEGVXG1ZWRty6_w6KTdbafCbyclmk44rYViKhx_HcZobu7zf2GiYn5gCONSQTcdgRxO-_qjkU4qJVVLkVkU0Js60-su_GI4fc1P-iTl9PHjcHglQyXejC1Ju3NQH85rBupBjzccRRu3kJiHcVMtJ5GNe7TcpeeAEX5A6tDbggInvQrrHwRA_Hbu9DfsM5Uj1yGzt1s9-4Ra_dxAbfzLcXEy9vihH_dJEFYD8NwoGY6-Z7HWCtw3jcz_QJWKtIJ5ZEYwolXCteZXKVwbCcx8m8oWinf-eC-9Ds39d9WuHruEU-mrMHAVQsz2uZOhwCuRTIYWJEdYhJWclJT=w520-h693-no


I used a piece of masking tape to show the new 10deg BTDC mark on the back side of the flywheel.
pOGvfvPcH69eqSc88Qj8CTKI5GiH6bhHPvwImoVZ7Xj9sBD9U5zMH7WCrjsSMohkm8h5NwjjGZ7pL_M7JuXox_HAJjKyq8AuikrbRo0KD2iM1iX3QwL5Zud39FrC4VTkwRj-on61ghunzXbUvOg89yS6FUECwIu-onI9O18CZlxBEy5JyLhohpnN8_beYjaowl3GncHwUWkCwPuHmfw0Fn6aYdh1DZ12k8zPUWybMFRpsM1VsgmlGEbBnni30YNoZWN10KtQ3cVish5CaecNWtVd_KcytgBHnUGcLI6qq1JKOzGmnR3u1q6yi1nqznrdwElBxYfnpn6h3zDos-WZGCL8vxCLN0iiqJAcqSSVv6_Yw04Lba4FqVfof6bFppTVRoAVgLeCSwelPj1ThKmzjkd5QsWexsRTxF1iMO7K9-v4P833Ra1aZHJUHvgMDwdHW3Z6kyDey-oWqHtTU6y_sHiqYfHQdA7OiA2jrIYCD4Kl9d50NMoKIamN05lZU3DZFcjM2_7OOMv1rxvzxxx0lmefJoIocPywKYJHTZGHi1R8xVN0vzah-ZjIsJEAaa9Miouq55U7yn6PO5bLgiDePWPH0iWzyTotaf4ib2b5TaONTkU5=w520-h693-no


Then with the engine running and an assistant inside the aircraft, you adjust the Initial timing until the timing marks line up.
wMoyWkBWUc8gF7aON3VVbLhH-5iMNYKf1W8jioo70Jhz-_b5Pyvoa8X2JqVuiSdkVTWZSVbRaL79FIwJcW63O7oKk7dRiFWSMaxpeCI9Tt1Dr1E7MkvpivbhkJ7t7UC3L2FtT2VreEfrZSdLr4eQjHW7k2qJL5nAADFSXjU9RLkXn6vwLqIhfzTUWjABMwxUIuS5BajO9QsRnk5XGsU-OXx3Sfj5-YXiLzjmDNvZht2h3sZ0NeN3ewhSYArWY9gOuWA0OKw8kKAW3MfBqtXDNwhJihDl5AmxAuwByWywaj0pntw3PVCI7WzaEIbc58A4XI9LGecM63WcPj9iXybirYR0Sln_Tj_icsKZMGXOFlQY9l-YPAHeyeYWyAiljXSdOl0grTlNxY-Vt6ay4OCeXRXym5vjQnUfEah99sU83G3S2uBkcFXpdHowtOoPwafz8QO-9xthAMAIMr6a_dlV5g3cwNuwo4NoYmBiTWc-OdW4uqlIOXr3MTE_3Eb23Yxh5nwOKpaLGXeFaXo8O1ma3QrfYGDrvJynbju99nBOpDOR-xpkU3E1n-i11eh-ZWXxgyM1BXMfdooV1k3-EA57OUtMlv7-1hQyL1Op1HzFP7VHw0nB=w520-h693-no


Timing marks adjusted ,

LWCD8nvs4ee_Jjba6FJ2VcPVXV5m8Z_XhsVSsvLbAQXoJRNatN7t6hdhI6C5cuAAPLSiYvbzr3q9B5-metrg37OylaQXkv35LtbI-fe2NL46j8M8kDhUDWjFCB-WsxprASHcEXxSGBNUaPbOWAX-urBHhxkBIzhUdTDyVGRWubezGgh5-5NCYz8NrLB5b5S5MmWIkK2y5-yk69qAjJlzZ3mj1kWDJBPWkT20cg1pYximl92Cn6SSG9oRoffTj3cXfxjbfs2PZJlZv-HICh8hxEjg2CHKQ-THCTaXxTj8Yz7C3EDriH-LsDmgOFgYkDHqGGDNXYJoFjrldfpB10d14k-s8VPd7Xua0Nt5JjqN07K126Zz9FNhEeax-C9jbei9ntkEHwkx02_Y7LYk2MAJ82jzsE3dRh_MtZI40Zvr4Dfuw-4w-KEzxjg9CkAitM62T9Wc1QFVPe0i9RtRHyMcewqepDD2-8PHPtofzqRI0L8xSFA6q4LXatnZrsGkh9_b0s0BEw-wVm2q2JmAEEsCWttv1EgBQ3V_zKcBwqM9fhXLMxL4n7G2IjLGb9PL-49Kp26QZqAomY7x7PUyDF5PpDW0SqYzxLBXNLXQcP5ZFxcV2z14=w520-h693-no


Now this position is slightly different depending on your flywheel.

SAFETY WARNING :This can be done very safely with the correct briefing and safety instructions to your assistant.The aircraft is securely chocked,Brakes are on,all loose articles from the aircraft and myself were secured. I am wearing safety googles and although the photo looks like I am near the front of the engine,I am behind the rear baffling on a small step stool looking forward. A good quality Timing Light that is "Daylight Readable " should be used.

Once this is completed, and the engine shut down,you simply enter in the timing map that Ross has supplied.His map can be adjusted up or down depending on your compression ratio and fuel type used.

The CPI displays hide behind my iPad, but the could be mounted anywhere.

Now you see them,
OpBezAoy99IpZUJGSvNX8OizsHir4gI6faEc1GfNEr4lU8UkCPfppLs7bn30sR4m0kCTttZ81qg_dFbG-KIwcQ4mMYS3lwgFQMDqymoA5kG2Y028jkC16tKc6RVir6gv5DxM6T_H4TuHQEk0KtWeXQnntbuwdrJdI00ChsIUXRJ2-BU1RgkhGbb23p0Z3ZbZPWq2-cU95pbQRslNAZx5QHHzdk4m7LzPwNv8527vxtsPmgKocrNLHfl7JMe7a-FFZMQvOJwP075qD1FqWeOmE4DTtwEGvu9FTgk5EZ9rR4kY-szpC1MIFiFqsZMIJJnCgaaad-UYkHp08Uv2nQTYAIRueqkaFA6siiulzvdeJWGEJuxKfjYpuLmiUkFOOOez1MfnUDrzfTfBuVoKNgUZM43y359ToIYInb6U-BAbgXyX5FnHt41VA3bZGYYWgdbnIhQwVNvKfkEXKt1Nb9T5fwKxenjyl9vFr0RZCULMMTF4NJoG_mtHuMKiS-b60Un88wM-wHMHS3ko6pTSld4_JA0UWT13SqvEWTsMYAKiM5wHoGwfwViOkfsjxHthBNCIFUF9EONp-2xe1c4r0N-A-N2ss7otaMUJ_m70-Fz6dNIXXcJN=w924-h693-no


Now you don't,
tZ23L8QQfwxRtJrXwwSShwe105w5WmBRVp6EY_sB4-p4Dv0XnRolM9DCY4X5MQMYhKwkPbd79yjZSKwC4CBlGtYf6aBJgXlEDi9yoXLlWfmfdegZ61-6PULCzwnbpLrPvKJjwZh_YGaA2pzGAp6EkWsgR1IGZmbMznjNPC4pquDmxvwIVGh2hcqSouI4vnza9k8_MVC5X4xlLicNGRnl9zD4UWrh8q8UnLUgYTUZyc_xBupltUBTW4HzhJthNMJTTxJ1f3WYaBdSwNbl7Ft1v7l19P9_N79lNWXVT0uxc84JUM7iRVGbTRst0qU-uZDEpqcjf4FEplJLEQkR0xdcmOTD8CAboENpcgndWwINzhODwkYuHqcs20NIj79voCI1lbfHrrg8fKOg1qCBTi5RB6EQHMCe_gkHcL_hqM7MVKPOV-BMZz0IFE91C0lb7cVI4fgX_E4GXeqYKUXGgr8ZvmN0bFOIOHhZ4tpstGNbnM39xrtGzLS77pzFvBbSrWZoeD5URAag8Ht8plaSCPfCv8upZkRGwGejm-U7jFkmou9P1k2kBRYEIEkmIgpMxdG7XVDlQ8RKDS8eIX1HR0PTZ8ivbnnbidYIlBWcHobVEpeTHbhH=w924-h693-no




I have completed two short test flights and the engine was smooth and the temps cool. LOP showed the fuel savings others have reported and the easier starting was very obvious. I used Ross's standard timing map straight from the instructions.

My aircraft is now grounded awaiting the MT SB31 :mad: and once flying again I'll do a full report and test flight data.

Cheers,
 
Last edited:
Dual Coil Mount

While I was in Oshkosh, Ross had shipped out the second Coil pack and Module.

As I have already installed the Dual Hall Sensor and all the wiring required,after I have run the single CPI for a couple of months and my new Back-up battery arrives,I'll install the second CPI.

The "mock up" looks good .

Aipikrb3epbInTJgRpj2TDYR7uZSzpmDf1hiIAQk00q9n1dUMBCwMmvKMLozbw06ahkIfHxlZfsOlZUa9EhZl0LYMYwfDNO00syW2dMko8Ve6nDlNs05JMr18-EQTJvbrtSPZUnZxFfoDmOnKaVX5IftGLYBzExHdKE51pHWCsRWSKahHHIr7CsFPyBsvKz_BXj7JudKEW-27hZHzr1lX11G1UJrWlXyHt53MBuTMMHezS-A9f71DuN3wxMlHQcuAcHhVPNMpThE8QAgNICql2A_Pn78CgAc_qR_HjBeafCUK_VINE4R5pElGNx7vajFCgjIN6YS5HwiLcVSKu1GuZsGBLEDj7l6CF6DmaP_3iBelyY5sSfqimnG-6wswdlHH66jmCNSwrsPTsqQsbQJdsHhabkfZ9Vby0juHQSyua9chLIli8hqgT9IuwH_a6kOJB0LVJIGXhLRtrZah1BflVb9EW8ipgPUMAe2OhlDcxxKo3mASjGRBLl9Aq4BBa9_mC8JdXZFAZC751nMlKMYz6XYD1oVHIcypN1B4GK3yYXr-7fulJ_QGWXRLmV3OKTGl9hIJ90HfoFS-MMRmA6wXWsjXYifPH_ISVu0lXg_DGNGtU9a=w520-h693-no


UOTXhcRD-W5Gmk5otR5Ioi0xlM59qw7WC3gFzHINWhsyIkC2LzpG0FLGFg8stb0aC0iK0A8UVVdw1Ajacm-fhP0XLvgiR8IsL7VhmtGFHQa0drvkzKmOfxf2gMg2JYAL-EJOYN3gFbUSXzHS-piX1h-Tuaet7iBrrYJByktnHgEW27KQw5ZsYQ6G2uuSqtqNHBVaajj6dryBDPJkdZjwlNha1k68xsrhj2izM9Hi2uGYdW6aVj90S0u_F5f7qzleTITejGSllpyT--ezwmk-GpAkciOyzgSzG0K0AT-UPa-8DVNofWIRXsdWPggTZWQyWRaXP6h1xWrxhmAdxVa2k_9VVrGENEQ8ebaevZ4hUxdyX8OnzHjeWgIgVpEym_rT8y3-uoTgSOjnZ7Izi1BTUURVnPbs8tlRJ9wddfyxrl7UajjkXd7Lkl7ApgaCdGY8NFDdC_vBywFpHQZ4W_yMdTJmqvMCzeZeJcKk9eBW7uRgVGIv0Wr9MThip8w8P8CyQpHavA0Em7HL6fI71eziMofv5x25ix5GMTVhXu4RCoMuRwk93zLMCFE8L2LqfVVNgpVszHOq8SuH7Ym6gWNl0tcsIf08JOYddJ35TtBONQ_pDNF6=w924-h693-no


XncXpSrlRGqpvLHmg0K26ym2xOFUCbGg-e1hqPZl3jbJ87om2whFAWObf6j0z_NmGxtwIKwtUJdGjU-BgpKWe8SGIaOe1T3okQmCi4cSA7WmcSZ6UFzaCey8XJE5uicIis_0kQ3jO8JCzRDwV1lZiAYGZBvd4-2shCLvgfiWOASS97vDr7xQoUUot-stAytTE7glyoXGdi25XoEap2dqw98kCZdmmrGfnIDoWAwdIe-6VkC0gHXu7T5z77kJYsfG-tEY3FCkPTqxATrWeeQ7m0iQ8QfcCY2ZNHpfWooG_YoNHz1rtvEiNRnB3IVdyuTid-ZYvZA7GmhxuiiwDSqJUkrWKop8wN1Z5zFleXQKUzCGEDpNVB9tjQYGrjKLIU0LQ1CS_dC0UoavdMfMRvhcsJRmPY21Q5XKRbU-I4v146vm1bYLnGT1Zx-XzVJHd5qKJ1L7MSPHkgSsdhMermoPKlaVrI0dHoG934J5ism5tC34H084y5nWU8JuvF8ffn2fwK0M4s5jxWOpUEByDx6S29OhF5W8NaG2hC6m0P-ZQHDtPcTMcRFEGdmm_Ku_H4XLmhAsk20wiOfkOuSH7tZJvF-NsOmb4ySAgRTRHWPcJ51HWlc8=w520-h693-no



(previous posts have been updated with more photos )
 
Last edited:
Thanks for sharing many photos of your installation Ashley and how you set up your timing marks and Magnet Position values. You need good clear marks to see with the light.

I'm glad you also posted about safety precautions around the spinning prop- this cannot be stressed enough. Maybe sure one hand is always on something back near the firewall while holding the timing light with the other hand to limit travel towards the prop and stabilize your body. When clearing the prop area, I always have one hand on the wing leading edge as well.
 
I'm glad you also posted about safety precautions around the spinning prop- this cannot be stressed enough. Maybe sure one hand is always on something back near the firewall while holding the timing light with the other hand to limit travel towards the prop and stabilize your body. When clearing the prop area, I always have one hand on the wing leading edge as well.

Here's a big fat safety tip.

Most of the household step stools and short stepladders are unsuitable for this task. It's not easy to balance on them while in the prop blast, and they are so light that it can feel like they are going to blow out from under your feet.

Long time ago, I needed a perfectly flat, warp free surface for template reference when carving a prop. I built this one using 3/4" thick MDF board, sewn together with drywall screws:



Later the box became a work platform, a place to stand comfortably alongside a fuselage or engine compartment. It is absolutely wonderful as to a place to stand when using a timing light on a running engine...solid, stable, and flat. These days I keep it at the hangar and use it any time it might be more comfortable to elevate myself 16", or as an intermediate step between the floor and the wing.

Highly recommend that you spend a pleasant hour or two building one for yourself. It's just a single sheet of MDF and a box of cheap screws. Top, two sides, two ends, and two ribs. Cut handholds in the ends. You'll love it.

 
However, tape and a sharpie allows you to move the timing mark to a much safer location so you don't need to hover over the engine. last time I did it was off on a the left side of the engine in a very convenient (and safe) position. No need for a step stool.
 
However, tape and a sharpie allows you to move the timing mark to a much safer location so you don't need to hover over the engine. last time I did it was off on a the left side of the engine in a very convenient (and safe) position. No need for a step stool.

Yep------this is how we did it, feet flat on the ground instead of a stool or ladder.

Quick and easy to make your own timing mark------ after setting the factory mark as needed, pick a spot that is convenient and easy to see and created your own pointer and timing mark.

GNiJM7HKxxwu9YNViWMS4spKeeyJOYM6pBplVYXuWoqS3KhTwCQZYXjOcIdvvEHCgmlyj18v1sqfcP0znERyqo7yC5JwVyeZgUDhMpsqr23-M55vz2mMxiBK0NljkfzyXo7lg-4k17-5CcHJH7fHU_3U-TYLvc2s_rbiUOOHIoXZD1ouwTcL_niXfyWg-x-9H5UxFsLvcLa1azNNJol6GwZf3UcXuQPCt5cva83dDpe-GDQHbobwCi6z_GlpWs2VSNoZ3gEbo-oOKOYQXvwlJ5qRNA08SVToJ1gp0balFLBaxZqcCxYRmtNwJbz-qDyo9vzNjbZ5MsJD0pdYLB8LWr3e63YtgcDGMNjoN9swfGYgI6bF2AxObg5y6Lcm1gkrA4uBZ1w3KaIDwJbPA_qJJoeHLCkfdXWKrxHCtb46bK5b8X58bTWAHp3lNq0UWHQs2ue5NRABEVtwA182iAwfPyI0P572gFhLgIEsKFJuMhJkuZqpqzunwgp9810TpsH6uFQk_5yHqY35BGfOe2ry9hAf5QfsUY0HfhWzuMC0LUVPIcmJAwsgL3Yf6oaJqqWUpxFy7usTyBfaQI1HOWKE-akuEbVVjaU=w1184-h889-no
 
All good ideas guys. Putting a new timing mark 90 degrees to the original and adding a witness mark or pointer 90 degrees from the case split can at least keep you feet on the ground when verifying initial timing.
 
Hidden CPI control box

I hid mine away. The new Guardian Avionics iPad mini dock is mounted in the center of my panel. It took a little effort to carefully hack up the mount but it turned out decent.

Once everything is set up I don't think I will need to see the CPI box on a regular basis but it's really easy to access should the need arise.

The timing has not been set with the light yet but everything works well during my ground runs so far.


20160731_195913_zpscxf6qooq.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]

20160802_182036_zpsrjkxafcc.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]
 
...The timing has not been set with the light yet but everything works well during my ground runs so far...

Your installation looks great. Its cool to see the innovative ways people are mounting the CPI boxes as this system gains momentum.

It appears that you are not flying yet and I assume that you will set the magnet position before you do, but I wanted to address your quote above for the benefit of the group.

With the CPI it is possible to get the engine to fire "right out of the box", then tune it to a buttery smooth idle with a few presses of the advance/retard keys without setting the magnet position. This is fine if you just want a quick ops check and doing so does not hurt a thing. HOWEVER! Without setting the magnet position accurately, you have no reference basis to adjust timing in flight. The timing values shown on the screen will be completely meaningless and could be off by 10's of degrees.

The magnet position takes only seconds to set (making and mounting the timing pointer is the toughest part), and only has to be done once. Is is the mechanical relationship between the magnets you installed and the position of the hall sensor, and is unique to your engine. Once established, you write the number in the logs and should never need to touch it again.

So the bottom line is simple: DONT FLY WITHOUT SETTING MAG POSITION! Tuning idle "by ear" is fine, but not on takeoff roll.
 
Last edited:
So the bottom line is simple: DONT FLY WITHOUT SETTING MAG POSITION! Tuning idle "by ear" is fine, but not on takeoff roll

This information is imperative for safe flight. Today I used the timing light and the MAG POS was set to 91 from the factory setting of 80. As Toolbuilder said the timing could be off by 10s of degrees and still be buttery smooth. In fact, there was no noticeable difference at 1000 to 1200 rpm between the factory setting and the tuned setting. 11 degrees can make a significant difference at higher power settings.
 
I just received my CPI from Ross. Have a lot of other "stuff" to do to my Rocket in parallel with the CPI install, so I thought I'd ask the community what they think about harmonic and balance issues while I'm at it.

Ross believes there should be no problem but I'm wondering what everyone else thinks about the long range effects of removing the magneto cush drive/drive gear and bearing, etc.? In my case, I'm planning on one side only and staying with a Slick on the left side. Any ideas about how problematical (or not) this might be from an engine balance and harmonic viewpoint?


Lee...
 
Until someone else jumps in and tells us different, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the 540 will only benefit from less geartrain mass. There is no balance shaft back there and the crank has pendulum dampeners. Im curious to see if anyone can tell me differently because my engine is apart now and I'm seriously considering leaving out one of the idler gears and the fuel pump pushrod. Since I'm going with the SDS EFI system I only need to drive the cam. All the other hardware used to drive accessories can stay on the shelf in a box as far as I'm concerned.

Of course there is also a long history of 540's flying with the magnetos removed in favor of other EI systems.
 
Last edited:
Mike ----- have you considered using the vacuum pad to drive a back up alternator???

Might want to leave that gear in.
 
That's the one thing that brings me pause, but at this point a backup alternator is not going to be used - even in the unlikely event this becomes a "hard" IFR ship.

...and if I do change my mind, then peeling off the accessory case and installing the missing hardware is only a minor consideration.
 
Last edited:
Until someone else jumps in and tells us different, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the 540 will only benefit from less geartrain mass. There is no balance shaft back there and the crank has pendulum dampeners. Im curious to see if anyone can tell me differently because my engine is apart now and I'm seriously considering leaving out one of the idler gears and the fuel pump pushrod. Since I'm going with the SDS EFI system I only need to drive the cam. All the other hardware used to drive accessories can stay on the shelf in a box as far as I'm concerned.

Of course there is also a long history of 540's flying with the magnetos removed in favor of other EI systems.

As you probably already know.....make sure you plug off the oil lubrication holes that lube the idle gears.
 
Dual CPI Update

Wow time flys!!

I have been flying with the first CPI for over a year and although Ross is working on the CPI2,I had some ideas and designs of my own with regards to an auxilary power system that requires no pilot input.

In early February,I finally had the chance to remove my last Magneto and install my 2nd CPI.

Removing the last mag and all components was very satisfying. My engine has only done 435hrs SMOH and I was surprised to find the drive couple shaft spinning on the bearing.Although a failure was not imminent,it just adds to the case of how many moving parts are required to keep the Magnetos spinning.

G2O7-FZCl7KINlZy3d89ldGb6TngT61i00BCUS5B78ILRgeFqzsI6RXEm78EBIkN8YGqg6PHwkm19qRahOOKawgiKg9m74mhhryIDJINL8A8LkZqedBwjCfb9HT1FsEGdGUkbjKYuWicrgYbpYnkn0BFvnAj7N54DEZIgtf0qo_pz1ugbHcjxkPWJR9v-HbQDLerJcStygZkhJYaQUT7o1Nrtz_0Z3HoPrtXrXsFHjNozPT0vjtp3jEOl-2Fyvkbu4Mti5IpRKKBPQtzqJOr8EPRuAueWfJivSZp8xKPHcEHsQYJvtsh2fCKE5kb5JjjKfkdIoewl421DSXj2R_tYNh5UI4hIl5o94wcQ3_A5C5RjRuztaQFfGFnce12GQtZc1hJae1VZahYEpCeQ0KlmhCLWpq9RDfQq355wTg3pdafs5XiFUO1fZV7DFKonE1AwB0HPZ5waay7XOD4VFkmMRjEe5xaiEDTJUafCraHhsYjPK-qb3JUh2dnGnEAH32Xcf8B1uyFmALk89j_uV8dntO89BaovfuGhAYeZKW8v65Mj3SDftpO4mTMz1iRcMJRbT-yGlGyirvXb2ODYXp3w5IiW2vEwBQ87hh8wbBXjRgmf8G2YdctQoK5IHFhCW474L22anViQMt9jW9HhSqB6vVEu2DLBLYUnA=w894-h670-no


abLORNCfAMHGzwl9KT0ckaHVsBQR3kHT2exu-25_S0B9rfRU5K1LoWdrdhs-6Em1lpfVfBvf8Oo_4r1D_PDyP9DTWeEntNqINDRCXmDKt1tOVnPrutVn63zcrkMkGNof3NQMQnLGkAG2hHpBOk1QS1opLp69opGmWDtonzCEGR3vG_rhVAjXYx56NsskRf8tcwcGRvDWSwG-lBxwww9a8zTsW4FcT6RV2eOFniX1TJyN3bsP207_UNCewwsRvVOiK9aKBdvGMvF0X0ER1Ep-O8HXiEkbdTfmWizlKleCTl8Gr3RpwUsLaB0S_7DStv9mN5kRrYQ2Za1Lus8fsCKNwjeIC6JgeuFIdFCgNJo0m8NmyJrZq6W6hOnn9HT2nd-afwdsFbHsu8F4Chr5dEJoLsiDEnKR8WuxKUNwjXXbnJyfFzB7UmGfcDk5HKyHYSgy63r7RA5syKe5ToADNoGciF5K7cvDFv-LRmG5Po45iAzFGc3naOjIhxHhKPEyUbb9F35ZCw4yVMzY_Vjg83pEKSMy3ZHMQhpn-C3DobVlWXB0PjAxnIHAvhahnFE5Ga0_r_3ThQuzrBiDhanON973pWSY4ImAE7KQ2il2ZEXVmbNo5Xr1zB8sjp0-rTFlENEINxYvWoFC0hQNviZTJzwHKAVpYhtRSqqF0A=w1136-h640-no


I had already run all the wires and installed the Dual Crank sensor in my first install,so most of the work was running the new ignition leads and setting the timing for the 2nd CPI. This was the fun part of the project.
The Ignition coils and Modules are kept high and dry on their new CNC mount. (all CPI firewall forward components are water proof)

Xm3HFEzeA72aMX0x5ivijTk8dBMMXT5R7h74bc34AE7hSce0vNrSrOqizavMWZzEjoUl4jcZbm9lXV7wXVBK1XSz1yKG_q0WT2NJtlJG0nL1zfh1OCIaO6p_-22xD-kbklZyBNM-dsk8BRpAFh-xNbLp31E3wnmTYplz-WdBpD2QXfDOmHTy4ZClElxCYWyySZscYHyYf0nuJuCpZqFvjDOnWvVbovWxK6tSwu_ZMlwbiF72lsi2TyLrKDIFgb8lb2QQpSxsuhi6nLA5-VpFs5xQs89r-0IuK1p6EesZnuEWNI08T4IzddZrPIopo7TMLF0K5tTZDzMWCdiWd7B2w5bYliDRecLx_vbsEcMRUNkYnoy0vWh7DyStOb0S0QrFyNbkuGtgMRsTU4wHQjoVnPoOcUqKH6Tct2Ke43qdX5LT-U0RsWA5c-ZTWc3Q_-DuKft5sO9ZJia0npIcg1uyM34OzcWpfA9tpbLb--ksaF7JxQb0n6dL8DYpQg624Yll88WRgijM-fdYyInITb6aCXxETwMjHxvebQ9vNRejdBisieZ2SC-OKSIlSqD7TTuKVcA__KOgO7C0Q-m5UN-V2bsLHN6OLNYxCTiuHrAIIWVYm-SipN395bL8FbaviFTyxLewdFfgojufj7hSOTljzOGXZQ8KkLLssA=w503-h670-no


1PoG7vt0sr26mppoBy1bjc_MAwSvXv1V1vYrhW7D04pqmxyrjiVIg0T5osr9SwSTaDDtdndKcfkWmyCe6ZtJ_9o4HfEQnk99_TjSZOh5gpmkWxbczhqFHNwEFoPtlTf8jwduvQsHyc3azU10PHl1pEGrq_nylZTHy_hngnh4O6g2gRpmLBfTHoJLem1h2-wT_i-ZIf4KXmHn5IamQWlQXuYQbHVI6AJFzd0hVavJ201lCCYlojNT2Bm-vsi-_8GcL2o-IW5vNWEHKOLGWSTRZP44daIyqBgiSKadcsd0NYaT0oE6ivZVCB5xBWjyKhHiddlpMQWb6gw7I7Jk_AmmKVrBM-mTWFf0-bgbfanUCfF-Ja4MCwttFM3VhtoVPIEd6IPWIKkdDoWfepvkp9oK_G6pF6CtGfj5H8HgFdR87lAXag1MYzW5mUT3jjrxD8S7jTcD-sxJSTL8KNMVsp6fiw-b5aw2EfeKKmXAsZ7U4LncppaiLISZ4xNklr2tPr3JIDGU11JR2iED1IZfe29D3vHLCjY37w_um7SiY3jrJ7wDJi4itz5yHBnV7O-yt_J8XXrXtQJc7IGnvXea3GptoWDtRI3AEHIF8us5C60ib3GtNHEZESmJ74GJ_65vyMoJR_ROkj7OGzS7o1EQXSMZ4FZZbT7n49ct5Q=w894-h670-no


s0XflbbnVEybgTff8dDeBcvTEW59TXp75yLy6LEMSnxi4oX6QQAy-5hNdE-d_z0qk93TWi5XeECvsMRVd10l4wkArv7klWgc_w9v6ahv-neQxhLTVFw55f12wNFU8z2fCvvS_AXhw7VgPEwwt0gxTEoo-McdYhbRKAXRBmd9FV53LrGYd7RVXDXwJwOz_hNFpDuhP4E3I83RyiTw_NaJTTX_45Eruaw2tNxOOjk_9OKxIchayj3QbBHp3Yw8RHeQzEP-Npd40Mp5pd9nuLa4ydxd1oTdbSEMkfuKImDqgOa1YwhlQdIVUo5uKcKICrvI9RmpIg5Mt2rKaIMN4k1Sk2rAjjMgRVml4EpnDHq7kTShqrXd6jzQHSi3DAd62fbOKTf1IDgHOnjbWpTSVtD-TrViYc8iRcDilOg2NGrmk5XNbUWrHN0hae8SBStER0sy5zO1lvaeVTtyrT7LbKbH1py92_vdkVjkUAAiOOFT3LjbAazkedgN8i6Gr6xr4bDyA4jc-h38OmD3nykt4B44hx6gyiz0bCaf6aNdzIgZQAo-N8mQ9VWNTbqZqCn1NtgIz5eyM2SAll0y05D61on9NCjKhGV8rnV7A2wNla9HBYYnsN15Wb1IHx684Xn_MxTQ3N6bmeJcuTCZ8gTRdxRLP1hFqQKr2p4d3Q=w894-h670-no


Oil changes and any maintenance at the rear of the engine is now very straight forward with visibility and access greatly improved with the removal of both Magnetos.

The 2nd CPI runs on its own E-Bus with its own back up battery and battery management system.
I chose a 9ah battery that fits behind the R/H Dynon screen.
The 2nd CPI will run over 3 hours on this battery.
My brother Ray, designed a "No Break Battery management unit" for the 2nd battery. ( he has a long career in telecommunications that use a lot of similar systems to keep the phones working during black-outs.) I expect it will work similar to Ross's new design as much as there is no pilot action required with any failure mode.
The 2nd Battery is monitored on the VPX and the alarm limits have been set for over/under voltage.
29453CsyvxNB_DIOsHqPje7iZ1ImSqZjAb56cNvIq6_lYfzMkOY8ijLkFQjZJtx4swnJ9Y3I31OLr0XFRUDuo6I5X-ik9J4ct7gYns2hungp91_kzgzGsDs-SCNpQQ8Rr7ABgaspTnEaISikzVFhP5c4YGBc8NsagGKqJfrFAWBlPV7EVT8TqNJ1cfE5ZWUpDF84Ah8ZiMVSeVjT8vaGCqJ7JjHdaVjPBjPjvPXntWH6gZczVUKslHux6y-ngZyDaN3X6KF1c3nf79yoBYGniQtTXFpopJyuwZy2oYGqitACcsuUnSYmY-HoeDcGn0FnUmi9eXjvUMG7p7W-ZVEO8Ho2pO86hPSjGftS59uZbzd40zRmK8MRY2YRFOYqFPuSzE1wNefwCe4YE_P3KNIRQOYk1DME2lJwpFgQGxI7Ap7PhsyzwO3X4L9PJyBKHb9i_PhK97hqDSguynbQ9qZxHYUInyT-WvqbrMEEjNje4Zac3qysq3VnsRjhpPX9yxIUurnZJfZQUUkzB0fZbDSF6E42Tx4UhcW8OOT_amMTvRDcGn59A3PDqcQBfpdNdhbcKcLJRcphTwaeUx82T85UFYOHZ5_ZSfxXQmGrEkbQHnB0ow3eK75YRFyXNB1Q_9vR-EvmjAVtTnS6tXDPEPb7BB-ylFPg51cOqg=w503-h670-no


loLBg-wvRyLLTmgsQEyZ-cdocrewRysXMEJXptcPgEVRLBtNs9NV4biaS_UuzPtpC0akEmDPOwkbqeucdQ2ne43GbWXPr5_rz02pJCTjRPzFser0jzeDSpHD4pc48xzfFfgFLOsZFhUtY7pUCjcgjOx0hsn9D0l7Dbt89DEuUmlts_ji8qCps2wo2R_17sJTvN9XbXA3qMH7T3zMxO78a4ZuFjl_T4hjIzGEmOJUiUEDRB95bfIcAVG5BjH_78v-pYSdg453ckaRkZ1UJUYRmQV9zUGPD_4X2uy0OOqJ06UyD99pHFbk8uwbuCb_CiuGuFk-JuMvUfXAdEDq7X9BX-4px6PeUn3YGPIo6diNCGQup808Dohgma-P4CA3vGC-jeNgAuVEgh8Ydu1OArQ4hr3Jk2qKuYCI1ZTm7cnQ3VLqwROf26BZ1jCHQEipghalqTXd1XG5oFbVYigLqKlb3ndF5LN0w1375-zfSiXLGURlUKfdW3A2rIuEDqL1NqIW5Uzf6VvhcXmUL2YfEShTtLneG6gxREbrusc6dUd5PP8rI4Ec68T1bc01bS8frTibm7Bhm9cktHgyTzOfdpX3JFhakaNyr6IlIelRNNF9G2svOu2C5LUGm4PWB42JUOKYhkd0n4XtWUMy1OfC8CAjAxgvPmkwigDsPA=w894-h670-no

(zip ties are tempory)

Flight testing is on going and the initial results are what you would expect.
Engine starting is effortless,with the powerful ignitions able to ignite a very large range of Air Fuel Ratios.

The economy I was looking for is defiantly there,higher the better.
iKMULQDF3Kr5BouNdTadvxQnypyDQoTcCHOh6S5w3ZnwACEnICm4Kx4Xr_gZSQKHCCENKt7-DfXP62-O75TAI_1bZsU8a7qu33IDDf6kZAgxLqlz9OgOss_J6sVudIiu7CiKvuRCgzOmCZ2N_0u4TuUcgsdD040I7av5V1aN7LjRxaSZU8TzJX6Z8zpdmlbfFJYQ9CQ115EBuse98n6NNmI0f_V-bUpdxR6PsskqB3S98UDkQ2yYrO5Mc7NcxmEUdTZrcmdguR82-hjkAODlRD_Jk-f5baMZuFnKzrsdOqYS_Hm5MT8EXguUQEJVwVwe9y6mYsz0hay0FPGvAUSHR-C4d5eCXdE2JPwrwi9iC_quMi0SxOns2pxVjRPJOJUV_AjL6wGgxqUZtM5An9pdf2HUKOe7O_GWCErxDww3tExGBGdfdOHoh_qjTzS5mO5Qut2Z8wqGfYtcohKkDGM7coYqHtxpYH1XZNbAv1bE0GM8PjQS6uXSwFv_1sgDBpyT1rsiXvpGukePSPY5zVVhG2fhz3kfK_R_sVPn1mKNRR7L7UeeA5UbgwQ_Ckpduh21Ba8tvhCoU5f04C3gBTt0eRyfVPmiqWKh78I23ge2epKMeCF-9LkcC4yqHuGRfjIl4m8Tz63ttcAIAqtDYaV1yN1wl-Eg8RTPRA=w894-h670-no


The ignition system allows you to go much leaner until lean misfres start and combustion can no longer be maintained. In this photo you can see No1 cooling off as it starts to misfire. (I am very envious of the electronic fuel injected installs)
3w5szh2pJ8YmUi1YYN_6NsmbZTM5lEOSQIjST0_rJzBirnmzyDITN7GjDosYA7mHskcjQhcTNP8r0mtDU7RzwCtkBOn3bqACiRJBqNghIs1_zPGrrVN6seu-nIx6k9sBOTIDWDcNuQNM_wEEGmZ4OBSKueyTzp3R3elIscAMN5mwQ11z2wvA98mKuIsjsQkgilcffWCKIE67UolHsUPEkvy8gt5eYPS37J2CztQ6vREKA42K3bEpPZS2NU-EuGU0v6sM1rtVesQsF42894-pyhsdU_T2bpGVxWLA_6w7mAC5PGp3BAjyJl3hDXSjB71XZs_VQrQvip_hubq8mjdSDST-YnzIojXtKF_BCGlDvUtHL1WYD_RnfrLM-3qkmCoolcQojNKWgynj1kQM7yN4NsmoIrvYLFfYXoloJHMWM4uLLE_nvIolykiaNAT4vIDMJEdZQyH1MvkeNRi92JMvdEWkaIG-wBrTOgwiC5ZhK1a-l8ib8ilLEySrGq3NjBrDgYGND7R22RKYCOIuuJ_UxIKwxnH0q4Zjbn5qfEPcqYKzudZP3yq_27LUqOeqAsW6w89sJrqtxDx731_hgkkxz_gQaoHz-ZbNghrrC1LZUgTQvpYJDY1mL2hF9K9AEGMW1DAsperZ_1oduZrFfkSQB_GElkcwUgKEYA=w894-h670-no


And the power is there ,
mvuJxfEBi-Kc0lYk7Z3rv_2Kg4hqHfG4pbLM-gGUXTD5M-iAMXOOT9neLAxwyciK2dYitYbll7NmULub5euJUio2TK7fyXdogyrABT0cZR8y1I6Zgx3jZzH_xlXqfXGC3_7JHgm_TNX2REVl9sqFeP4eynxQ0QsNAwaiMMOZTJKaN0A-wuVyHtpm11e9ADMsUoiDmI5pX5NV2-7GHNd1qY2B8G2vD_964jZ5Fsd3owMu1_ub2sG-NvosV1tb9ipBdDBUcqySihDBCD2pW7K1YHfJycsQCsC3zRiZ1k0mpt_m533Xpnt7KDYtEs2vvutMzcQuj2FhuMDeuC3obsTAM5m_YfGbtHzvD3HWoc9M6tLOAzBUQ1qWZdckxteaeSEDhQinPZz6wEFsazGATQFOG4F9jmX8skNY-h3kx0Ag6qv5Hb9rrrD4sB3aJiJ-qGZCL13VZdRdM7pr8SH4cBFWIXHXmglt4vKlJFJhGiWXn3-Bhd9nU1MnjBvlM_odlfdvLC8anJ1urCbFVqTC37C_XdFHXGUhiR3tLw2vdLxiu8pPU2G5wfBcH8HIGNplYGkbbO0o5mwlztPJp4ZPz9nvRoYGEaNg09HVcz-hCu9fgkDve-Ypx_GEBocsvGbfXf5Hu6xA5C__UJemeiJ0bHJnHbxNzARTGtHIoA=w894-h670-no
 
Last edited:
In Cruise,the engine is very happy,with good speed and economy.
QegOne8RjGX8bmb7xp_ih6jEAidZR7jUDyKuZFmKT9FXMjwRGz42nZEQtK-42dTK7RoPLjXOWXerzW2LvxmANdw2Txa_IbntlHwdSnu82ipb-1yWiy_m3r8gln9HXkY3HpRWL2_gzW_SWPcDlGkg53IaEWq-jZkP7E-sdEHFJwsU6oXroW0JQwh-fbC-jRE5ZvhquUTibAV59fz0XRbp5J9ywoghsxH2KpaXdsO30NThchREUZanJwSCaEbGqC9vNH8h4I8nNN3MsYw7IjMSJBJrb6-lcvCFROxbQzHhLQ21pxk5_edoAofzws1EXyflcXlwTea22zt9SxxN0wkfi09FchMPhN2J4pQCe9NG1DoRQTRrfp0GCkM4HuP85_QcsefDtNQk8OA0oeu6DTotEHu2GnFB5YXzCybndnlKeuncXIM96aeuChDECQWNNo4eXm7rrZhd5ZSrfkE2AqWzKB_e6sNyv_QjLmaNMeZSMhvBUGVow1AAHYuewupaGUUdMiItm5xa6MQLFvRKsxybKhMROPrz22XA06wiL5WKrU3qOc-ZdHAJ8aKzod5mPePqrpd3fv4MQFO2XE9zOCeKQv3okjHWkhQP1PEzvKqjy4WNQcYncQUyoq52_nmwNyacxki2NxODunAgPE2RUF7gUI5WUcrCPS_1KQ=w894-h670-no


The two modules hide behind my iPad and are very easy to play with to try different timing settings.So far,at the altitudes I fly the most.29 degrees seems to be the best setting with more advance only increasing CHTs with no speed gain. Going higher is a different story. I have O2 and like flying high,but with no useful winds at higher altitudes ,I'll have to wait for more testing.
UONpxEOZ5yy5YZ_GWvfKQVOCv4EyLttiyp60NrB0lKGNApgNjWB7b-L2DGNNtjsecUHMBJO4uwJFgpxMwQO59emM4ttNXnpbNN7r8m4JcyZf7IFq47B15kFdNKf0o_WzHTgbkFJtnshEcdbPy-jTDOAftwLhNzPKinTewx5iKaRl27Acl0zdY0M855N9vmTzQ_HrLhwlf4gFLxm6U7xTGdVxLCnONanImI3_4qnuWmdHUFbyaCL-i8DfXZFOad6BoZ98n5JkxToLFZCq-nJrsQRiL9KGz65g2eRFBh3C4kPciHzK0ALpJrVrpaWFbTvFNhS71bxgBEJSLXh5PZJ7o0_XP32qj2MFLeAuG1LdIuuPO1IzG2qGmQIWohrHoANiu15_Ky-TuIpxxetV0yJuQcspGPeIPkUUo_WLWp6e7hOlszpA0spNBb0hxeE2Eha2Xwqt9Ak2X9NLd0K-TCEylali8SnhnaFbgkfNTSfg3Z_W9uVj5e07RJruP9usHMe80YrFJMQydqpEjEWghE7JpVrXxSZShYt39IrmOrHAiCeRhEa7y8MZkBhADjQP4KFRuztpVhkfixf40-TlBxljaVRaJmlvHlCX3WRalTlYXMWh1SOqi2cB5kwhLKEi7KJSHp8UjxRQ4NZV0dysVtHt36n7AfXwIuJPQw=w503-h670-no


My next round of testing will be to lock down the Mogas map.
I am expecting just setting 3 degrees less on all settings will give me the results I am looking for.
Very easy to do with Ross's LOP switch being re-tasked to a "Fuel Timing Switch".

6ov1FLYKRBMLHzf9rCuzBcacJ2fHdYRQEIviZY2NSSHwjAtYCg-uJQ2r_zuuqJ53v-S6t14PXkHPL0TRBCpFG8pZhSJAit1TuLHG5Y55UajY-OT-v4kL0Hs0EhCFmnNqiTSyw5tvi2Dzt1QWhFWvpi6dD-fDRTrKraVm4uf9QJ-92qQdKW7tAcEhHdCAYCSoENL2F9gU3HCz06Y4wZlB3f86HdFr_Y6eL4DSkSVJtH32x8tEl6FZMeipChEDN4Xzy-XG3_doH4U-J8Db-3asZTaNYwxUuORJqyw5BqHG17Hle5a5M-dQT4jA0l7NK7lYjrlWQtg1FmPzZq4DLVQurHNFcCkTledagT4VjRSFHpydtH4EpFgZFYJLSrnEnrlZqNjCrYj-7x2Ox0U4NOfjfubxLQHeglTlD94m4uozQ6irTPESZ3UIVCVspbwEW752xS3QODPHekNGrSHgTcAuxKFI9gRjANJYifoswZOy0cKduOFBab5h7nZSwSzQBknFoagzq6kQmxyZxosaPJ2pN5SI8v4G6R3lCEUFatZmSRLyJigDMSUwqsW10diPaNmk2EE93LBuKPAsn0rNVLW1p_I1PwvFPScXXFsm3jIVCB3O2OujNlXyC1-rioyh2IN8a9onR8qTv4qVEU97s0hjNWpSlT-W-s3FWw=w894-h670-no


In conclusion,the whole upgrade has been very satisfying and the goals that I had hoped to achieve have all been met.
-Zero maintenance ignition system
-Coils,Modules,plugs and wires,all available locally in Australia (not the CPI boxs)
-Simple operation with all voltages monitored and failure mode automatic with no pilot action required.
- Two timing maps to support Mogas

Thanks to Ross and the SDS team for a great product.
 
You do nice work Ashley and this is a great presentation with the clear photos here.

Will be good to see what your high altitude testing shows for advance settings.

Thank you for the report.
 
Ashley,

Nice write-up. I have a couple of questions:
1) Can you give some more details about the "No Break" battery management system? What are the pros and cons?
2) I am assuming from your comments that the system you have is only an electronic ignition system and does not include electronically controlled fuel injection; therefore no return lines are needed, correct?
3) Doesn't Ross offer a "complete" setup with electronically managed fuel injection as well as engine ignition? Why did you choose not to do that? If you had it to do over again, would you go full, dual electronic ignition AND fuel injection?

Thanks.
 
Hi Mike,

1 - The "CPI No-Break Management System" was designed by my brother who is an electrical engineer and has spent most of his career in Telecomunications.
The goal was to make a stable back -up power system that required no pilot action in case of any primary power failure.
It is our design of what Ross is developing for the CPI2
http://www.sdsefi.com/cpi.htm

Specifications
No-break automatic changeover
LifePO4 12.8V 9Ah
Inbuilt Battery Management System
Internal automatic resettable fuses
Battery voltage connection for Dynon
Minimal battery discharge when off
Voltage maintained during engine start
Primary battery voltage >= 14.0V
For full charging under engine run:
Ignition secondary system will function
normally with failed or missing battery
Linear circuit design no RFI
Endurance >120 minutes

Ignition Lower No-Break Battery
Drypower IMF12-90E2
12.8V 9Ah 115Wh Internal BMS
Lithium Ion Phosphate LifePO4
Maxium continuous load 12A

The Second ignition system runs on its own E-Bus and shares no common path with the Primary Ignition.

2 - This is electronic ignition only,I am still retaining my Bendix Mechanical Injection. However I can see some Turbo Injectors in my future to assist in helping atomising the fuel at very lean mixtures.
To install a full SDS EFI system on my already flying aircraft with its 4 x fuel tanks ,would take a lot of re-design of my fuel system.

3- If I was building another RV-10 for myself,I would go full SDS EFII from the start.All of the concerns with electronics come down to a robust power system and soild wiring techniques.
The savings in cost -of-ownership over the life of the aircraft and the use of Mogas fuel are too great to be ignored.

Mike ,there are many ways to install an electric ignition,this is the way I have chosen. There are many ways to achieve the above and Ross's new CPI2 will proberly be the easiest way in one neat package.

Exciting times ahead !
 
Last edited:
Hi Mike,

<snip>
2 - This is electronic ignition only,I am still retaining my Bendix Mechanical Injection. However I can see some Turbo Injectors in my future to assist in helping atomising the fuel at very lean mixtures.
To install a full SDS EFI system on my already flying aircraft with its 4 x fuel tanks ,would take a lot of re-design of my fuel system.

3- If I was building another RV-10 for myself,I would go full SDS EFII from the start.All of the concerns with electronics come down to a robust power system and soild wiring techniques.
The savings in cost -of-ownership over the life of the aircraft and the use of Mogas fuel are too great to be ignored.

Mike ,there are many ways to install an electric ignition,this is the way I have chosen. There are many ways to achieve the above and Ross's new CPI2 will properly be the easiest way in one neat package.

Exciting times ahead !

A couple notes of caution. The early discussions of toggle switches sent shivers down my back. A friend crashed his Titan T-51 when reaching for a flap switch he brushed against the electronic ignition switch, killing the engine on short final, seriously damaging the aircraft, thankfully no injuries.
If you use toggles for ignition, please protect them with covers.
Second, another friend had a P-Mag/E-mag setup in RV-7. Lost all ignition shortly after take-off, did the "impossible turn" and did just make the runway. Both EMag products had been fried by a bad voltage regulator, internal to the kit supplied Nippondenso alternator.
I'm sure we all try to think of and cover all possible failure modes, when another crops up.
As for LOP and using Mogas...the IO-540 used in the RV-10 was certified on 91/96 octane gas, just like the O-360 used in Cherokees that have Mogas STCs. It should not have problems as long as ethanol-free mogas of 91 or better octane is used. I have not tested mine for that to date.
I run LOP whenever the segment is long enough to actually get there. My trip to OSH last summer was flown mostly at 8500-11500, LOP at around 60% power with TAS around 160kts. Without trying too hard on mixture or speed, I averaged 11.3 gph for the entire trip, including takeoff, climb and other non-cruise modes. My engine is stock, with 8.5 compression. I am still using a pair of Bendix S-1200 mags, which perform beautifully at high altitude, as they were designed before pressurized mags became common on turbo-charged engines. I may think about electronic ignition when the mags are due for overhaul, but not a lot of incentive to go down that road.
 
Hi Kelly,

Great points to bring up about placement of switches.
All of my power/Ign switches are grouped to the far left and the ignition switches are fitted with guards.
Once the aircraft is started,my hands have no need to visit this location until shut down thereby reducing the possibility of accidentally turning off critical systems.
D-oN6szJAWdvFi3-V9PLvjATOTcUGT3gxQSG4I-zbKj7FIHLQSlVuMCNk8JZ5vEy90YptYhMornmxy-3kfk1SKfT9Hrhody5VKxFMueujFCbwU2UmShjgu980hqzFvKa3hTgZODiUO4eiwVSPthREnvWmzC-q2nA-bfHKcRb2Wr16IkzeV50DsBL1ubq3PtDJHGdRC9bOfjG6zvyjvgmAORtiIRn-NkTY8CGks4pyKhf5oO9J4r2Chvoy9WewqeZDEQNTNm4a2_7V_cikvKcainqeK7KEYyBON3fhggWJXVXQLMhqWCbcizWOHDGI-lnyOv_ZdBfnXdbeM8LgvSulUleJO1r1QXpM866QphnddBmDOBxGHPX5rPodTUriM9PmFmjR7-yOxhkzCErO-zt4VCTjoSoxkgumd-suWU8sMRvtO_QxUVmeI_siTdq5hrbVmlXfBb4t3Se1nHtvzITy5PYT09zlhd4ksBV1poHqKg_mjxSJ5C7TvdKkfHRCr-eHBKt_iOdMD7Jk0hrgkcoIWiIv3K8UHx8UJ9_JnXdZeutyrtsvg5p8IS_XWQ3SjNrea6PWha1hHze7L_joPtWj2Te0oEh1UI5ulFilMwd=w503-h670-no


The Dual CPI is about as independent as you can get with an EI. They do not share any common Power or Earths and only share the same physical location for the Dual Crank sensor. ( a sensor that is well protected,see earlier in this post )
However I agree that this design requires a robust electrical design and simple is nearly always better. Both ignitions are protected from over-voltage and the aux battery is monitored by the Dynon's.

It was interesting walking the flight-line at Oshkosh when I was last there and there was a Carbon Cub with the cowls off. It was fitted with Dual Lighspeed ignition and the crank sensor wires were just hanging in the breeze unprotected and un-clamped. Some people just don't understand what a robust wiring install looks like!

The benefits of EI are well documented and as has been pointed out many times a correctly timed and operated Mag System below 8000 ft is very similar in performance to any EI.
Having Dual Fuel Maps for the different fuels is a huge benefit to me.
My aircraft was approaching 500 hrs so , money had to be spent anyway servicing the mags.

The gains to be had are in cost of ownership over time and the fuel savings up high if you are a long distance cruiser. The spark energy is nearly 7 times greater with any EI and enhances all modes of operation especially hot starts and aggressive leaning at idle,no more fouled plugs.

The early adopters to this tech have paved the way for more attractive packages to be offered by SDS and others.
 
Aux Batt Testing

It is now over 200 hrs since I installed the first CPI and now 60+hrs since my aircraft became "mag-less" and the Dual CPI was installed.

Nothing to report and the ignitions are performing "As Advertised" in all areas of operation.

Todays flight was a short 40 min flight and was a great way to test the Aux Ignition Battery in flight.

After take off and in cruise,I pulled the charging CB to the No 2 CPI auxiliary battery.

RC8o0rNk9jQbCTxUcJ26bClx49xTz5c3y456ibSUERiEVShKRMbnI8-T0KL_9JUryGNCJ29sOTN7vRxqE0pV5VXyok3w5LOXbbU4NNCVMyOPrN0KgexHurXytWazhatD-tg6MfQ0_Sud5Oj1xDCyYGpwdGd1dGK2QHaE3_GFQ-XY_rElw7tIun2YU4rldEeMaakWUT2HcYx9Wa5nkaDtha2WdJ2DjnsN3fNDJuUYkFFBC5t3RfjzLac7syw1oDw9vpF76IUF4IlZmyXx6KOSiYT91-2AGMWMhRlsY5NQZlufVCEUbCDPz0Yn2pKAMKL_fVHxouwVTENahvRymibDA4xu22vn98zUNeJfi9w9HUdkq7k-izHjCnUpMDXMF7CLmCFRyS6uD8g64LFe1KOguQhbVd8kDnKJhTqevgE4EzJZvLuK68SeN3UwhTrPBroS8YpXcFwLxRft81B43dEKSbACxALhKT7su5s3ECPFWM9MK9c7riE4mnGyBZ5KH4Kw1ydeHcPQU0auJSVuFjlSIkn0EBuDI18HANr9NGhl8l2v6YdLJH0CSbZWZzzz6KNoM9PY-fjezCirmKRPibMnqVi7I5s1iHBIt8DrFVZnB4_3lRj6yT6rWVfK6wYbTPYgmUmOS1NHJO5ZjDbKn-sJFLxen3_6Cy-kbQ=w894-h670-no



The voltage held at 13 volts for the duration of the flight,
( The battery should power the Ignition System for 1 1/2hrs + )

Ue1l-1h0xVhidCvN5EspDxg9UyX-SIjK0vpY3nfnMBAhPsAmOUDcjEmfDE2ODMpYP-Be611iGEmplFuZzPC_uei1QQnX7HAUQLt-8RZWlVTC88WY_Ug68U3yyuqUj1Az-PSpPNkUCi-Ea2I82NQUtek063-HwycqngplnJmHYoAZyVguF5JRXsOIUkUPJ67CvlAdebHUYCuyzAgMFrg71uTHrxRgLtIzi-W_-awvIk7ntN1bSWJSBgBxeNfQPLBTUbGdIGHu-bbpz4Adp9h3LDq94hLNYrLP5XDhgvJFKvySdk1VPPm88hrF7MnAeLvcHkcCsI3I1mgPv6WK0OZ8XrJytDaA1DSmOoTk2LI078QCnxsl_fkI1dg_KbLsDXPMRmKcm37Hf3wD75YGzsIm7pWCQHqc-CaK7VX-htm8HwJ8Mbl3F17XE2SYYAJK0N3vnUNNgn96VSrrwkyHY1hZ0gPOzEm8lL0cOTePHXejwZcnvPLzcrr13A5NjgEojJvT6SH8ZxpjqdPjXFm3GQvElZCD7SLaXPOMio3Go57fXZhc9ldUn4o1up4ghTIjAQ05nrr4RXXkXiK2-hZ3CpDaYbEL_Ar7s6EXQuLwCVby6Gx6pEvt9Rr3J1FMzw3ig1hXReHsllqlvLxj8yibURjdXNCFYmKYtwUb4g=w503-h670-no



The purpose of the test was for me to understand and observe my aux back up system in action.
Nothing to see ,quite boring really,just the way I like it :p
 
Last edited:
Good test to do Ashley. The current draw on the CPI is very low so you don't need a lot of battery capacity to keep them running- about 1-1.5 amps in cruise each, depending on type and rpm.

We appreciate the promotion!
 
My next round of testing will be to lock down the Mogas map.
I am expecting just setting 3 degrees less on all settings will give me the results I am looking for.
Very easy to do with Ross's LOP switch being re-tasked to a "Fuel Timing Switch".

Hi Ashley

I am a month or so away from first start, will be running SDS EM5 system on RV10. Can you share what you finalized on programing for Mogas? I will start with base curves using 100LL throughout first 40 hours than will want to explore a bit using Mogas and updated curves.

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

Steve
 
Mogas

Hi Steve,

In the end the best balance I found was the following.

I have 4 tanks so I use my L/H main with Avgas for all high power operations,
(take off and Landings ,possible go arounds etc). Once up high and switching to the mogas, if it was available, I use the standard timing map and have set the LOP switch to +3 deg to use above 8000 and LOP . (65% power or less )
Up higher, 13k and above timing is LOP and 31deg and very happy, my challenge where I live is that winds are often more favourable lower than that.

Reasons :
Even though I use 98ULP that is available here in Aus and according to the published fuel specs and Lycoming specs it complies , we have had at least one IO-540 that was flying on a diet of (98ULP) Mogas experience accelerated Valve seat wear so much that at 400 hrs all valves had receded into the heads. ( all cylinders required overhaul )

This RV-10 driver with his IO-540 now measures his valve stem height at each oil change and has reported back that every time he ran on 98ULP for high power settings, he would record an increase in valve seat wear and when a combination of Avgas for take-off (or high power settings) and mogas once in cruise has reported no difference in valve stem height.

The conclusion is that Lycoming (and all suppliers of valve seats for Lyc ), make their valve seats out of cheese metal (my description ) instead of addressing the seat hardness problem like the auto industry did over 50 years ago when fuel changed to unleaded.

So in Australia at least, we have data to show that even though our fuel matches the Lycoming charts for Mogas operation, we can not use it for high power setting without an additive or shandy of Avgas. Your mileage with the fuel in the USA my vary but I would be measuring your valve stem heights at every oil change until you were sure there is no valve seat wear going on.

At Osh this year, I spoke with every engine supplier and builder about this and the answer was either blank looks or an awareness that they wished harder seats were available. Only the engineer from Swift Fuel understood and agreed with our observations, their testing showed that an additive was required on standard unleaded.
Measure your valve stem heights at every oil change and then you will know if your fuel is having any adverse effects.

Only Andrew from AC Engines was designing cylinders that could run on ULP at high power settings.
http://www.ac-aero.com/ax4050-cylinder-kits/

BTW, my dual CPI is now at 670 hrs and life is good !
 
Interesting observations on the seat/ valve recession. I think I talked to David Brown on this one. I wonder if seat material has changed in newer engines?

What vintage were the cylinders on this engine?

I know a couple guys who have over 400 hours each on their Lycs burning unleaded mogas at least 80% of the time. They haven't reported any issues like this.

Funny, my Subaru showed the same issues when I used 100LL for the first 250 hours. Is this telling us something?
 
Last edited:
Hi Ross,

The engine in question was a brand new Lycoming as supplied through Van's in 2014.
After break in, this engine was run almost continually of Australian 98ULP.
This aircraft routinely flies 3 hr legs.
 
As you say, the valve recession issues were a problem with vintage cars but solved with hardened seats decades ago. I thought the aircraft engines were using hardened seats already - especially since so many aircraft are STC'd for auto fuel.

My plan for the Rocket is a near exclusive diet of auto fuel - guess I'm going to have to look deeper at the valve seats.
 
ECI and Superior as well?

I wonder if the valve seat issue is exclusively a Lycoming problem or does this extend to ECI and Superior as well?
 
Back
Top