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Can I build an RV-3B?

KJP

Member
Hi Folks,
I'm considering building a 3B and have not built an RV before. I've thought about this for a long time and have some questions:

After asking Vans on 05-25-16, they told me that they had revised the RV3 plans with all of the known discrepancies, errors, and so forth, Do you think that they have done so?

Are they capable of answering build questions re this older model?

Please direct me, within this site, to find beginning point and beginning information so that I may become more capable of making the build or not-build decision.

I have lots of time, tools, space, etc. And as long as I'm making progress I have a reasonable amount of patience.

Thanks,

Keith
 
Welcome to VAF!

Keith, welcome aboard the good ship VAF.

I have no idea where WNC is, but if there is an EAA chapter in the area, I would suggest you join it and talk to folks who have built RVs in the past----or are building one now.

Also, there are build schools around the country, and Vans does offer a practice kit or two for you to dampen your toes with.

Yes, Vans can answer the questions about the older model. No idea about the current status of the plans.

Good luck, and again welcome.
 
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Hi Mike,
WNC is Western NC. I've been in EAA for about 25 years. RVs are not common here. I ask these questions due to the 3's reputation as being very difficult to build. I'm certain I could build a newer model. I have lots of experience restoring non-RV aircraft and some experience with sheet metal.

It's really the plans and their omissions, errors and so forth that I'm concerned with.

Keith
 
If I can build one, you certainly can.

Van's has been pretty helpful with issues. Considering that they sell so few of them and probably don't have an active builder base to keep them familiar with the kit, they are doing quite well. In fact, yesterday I emailed them about something and today got back a thoughtful, helpful reply.

One thing to be aware of, is that unless they've updated the plans since I got mine in 2012, sometimes the parts supplied aren't exactly made per the plans. And sometimes they substitute RV-4 parts for the RV-3 ones called out. Things like this add to the challenge and make building the plane more interesting, and don't particularly make it significantly more difficult.

For the most part, the parts supplied are fine. In a few cases, I've had the pieces arrive longer than they needed to be and had to trim them to length. So far, in every case, the formed shapes have been good, with a few exceptions. Please bear in mind that I'm just now getting to the fuselage and have heard that the bulkheads don't necessarily fit the formed skins all that well. But I can't comment about that yet.

Must say that one part (there were a handful) that came mis-shaped was replaced quickly and for free, even though it was four years since I bought my kit. Because of the delay, I'd offered to buy it, but they insisted on sending it for free. Hard to argue with that service!

On VAF, look into the RV-3 section. If you are planning the quickbuild wings, then Ironflight's postings there will give you an excellent look at the overall process, plus they are highly readable. In any event, try to read all the threads there; you'll get a good overview. In the builder's blog section, I've been describing my progress here. As I have the standard-build wings, this will give you a chance to see how those went (hint - they were hard for me but many of my difficulties were of my own making).

I've found it very helpful to be in contact with a couple of mentors and also to sometimes see the airplanes that other RV builders are building. For example, while I was so concerned about the leading edge shape, I found later that most of the RVs that I saw had similar shapes and flew just fine. The construction details and the processes and the overall design is quite similar from airplane to airplane and even seeing an RV-7a, with its nosewheel and pre-punched parts, is educational.

Hope this helps.

Dave
 
Keith,
Try to find someone building a RV and offer to help, we all need help riveting some parts. Without sheet metal airplane experience, a -3 would be a handful to build. I own a 3A, bought flying, and am deep into building a -8, the pre punch kit and step by step plans are a great help. Without that, it would be very easy to get backed into a corner and have to redue a lot of work. My previous airplane experience was all tube and fabric and RVs are much different, there is a whole lot to learn and a lot of tools to buy for sheet metal work. The -3 is a really super nice flying airplane and is certainly well worth building.
 
Welcome aboard Keith! You've gotten some great thoughts already, and I give a lot of credence to David Paule, as he is currently invovled in the project. When we built our -3B, I had been working on airplanes all my life, and had already built one RV (an -8) and had worked on quite a few others. I think that previous experience working on RVs will give you a much better understanding of how the various pieces go together, for to some extent, the -3,-4,-6,-7,-8,-9 are structurally the same airplane - just with different dimensions.

Becasue of the previous experience, I found it very easy, once we had the fuselage jig built and the bulkheads mounted, to simply build the fuselage around the frame, without really referring that much to the drawings. The RV-3 is an airplane where you "make it fit", trimming as necessary. When do you know if it is necesssary or not? We'll.....that's when the previous experience comes in. At the very least, having another RV handy to look at when you get stuck would be very helpful.

All that said, we have to remember that most of the early RV-3's were built by first-timers. Kit standards were very different in those early days, and builders were expecting (and expected) to go it pretty much alone, interpolating the plans as required. Today's kits are much more advanced, and expectations are higher in most cases. But with the fortitude, the willingness to ask questions, and the time to read many of the notes posted here in the RV-3 section of VAF, building one is certainly a doable task. And the result is, in my opinion, the best flying airplane Van ever designed.
 
Hi Folks,
.

I have lots of time, tools, space, etc. And as long as I'm making progress I have a reasonable amount of patience.

Thanks,

Keith

Keith,

Add perseverance to your list and you'll do just fine. The plans sucked when I built mine 2006-08 and I doubt they've changed much. The -3 morphed into the -4, so having a set of -4 plans or study prints will answer a lot of questions. My prior experience was scratch-building a Sonex.

If you're in love with the -3, check out the Panther. Better looking and much easier to build. Did the first flight on mine just this morning.

Tony
 
WNC is Western NC. I've been in EAA for about 25 years. RVs are not common here.

Hi Keith,

Welcome to VAF! Not sure where in WNC you are, but in the Hendersonville area I know of a 4, 7a, 8, 9a, and 10 under construction, with a 6, 6a, 7a and two 8s flying out of our airport, with more up at Asheville. Not that I'm counting :)

-jon
 
A huge public congratulations to you, Tony! :D ;)

I am a first time builder. Early on, some very talented friends who've built RVs taught me the basics of building aluminum airplanes. Other than that, this site has been my primary source of guidance. Sometimes it helps to see a picture of what the plans are alluding to, and that's where this site and all the online builder logs are invaluable. If you enjoy building jigs, fabricating parts, planning ahead, and problem solving, you will like building a 3. If not, build a Panther. My husband is finishing up his Panther and the kit quality is phenomenal. It also has a much bigger cockpit than the 3. Welcome to the club!
 
A huge public congratulations to you, Tony! :D ;)

...If you enjoy building jigs, fabricating parts, planning ahead, and problem solving, you will like building a 3.

Hi Katie, and folks,
I guess I'm like the rest of you; I do like those things, but there's a limit to it at some point. I do pretty well following directions & drawings, but am not as creative as I believe most of y'all are, however I'm particular. Going through some of your (and others') build sites is showing me just how significant the photo's and text are.
I'm still reading, thinking, and deciding. The imput y'all have given herein is helping more than I would have thought. Many times a fellow will do anything if he can get someone to go along along with him.

Thank you very much.
Keith
 
Keith,
I'm located in WNC although I don't think of it that way. Specifically, Murphy NC. When I first started building I didn't even have a pilots license.
I've built a 10 and now an 8a (currently in phase 1). Plane based in Copperhill, TN.
Feel free to contact me if you want to discuss building.

Tom H.
tomhanaway(at)gmail.com
 
Hi Folks,
I've read & read on this RV-3 section of VAF about building the -3 and, at this point, conclude that the plans are not very useful, if not misleading.

I'm having problems determining between those posts which describe difficulties that are plan-based and those which are builder based. And to be up-front about it, Mr. Lervold's comments are quite discouraging. I don't want to build another RV model just to gain experience sufficient to build a -3.

I don't expect a -3 project to just "snap together", but I'd like to be able to rely on the drawings to a "good" extent. Within this site I've gone back 10 years, or so, and read about problems, solutions, and etc. and still have not been able to find anything that collates plan/parts discrepancies. Several months ago I looked at Tony's website re building the -3, but now can't get any links to direct me to it… has it been removed? His present site is about the Panther (as far as I can tell).

The closest RV to me is almost 40 miles and I'll be trying to build this thing alone except for some operations where that is not possible. I don't have a community of experienced RV builders nearby. I'm good at searching and sticking with a problem, but don't want to have to call Van's every week and have another part shipped due to their plans/instructions.

Do I believe those who say these things can barely be built, or do I use the factory's provided information and struggle through as best I can? I've found that many links and website references result in "404 site not found" and dead ends; Is there, somewhere, a compilation of sound material?

…and I thought finding reliable Monocoupe drawings and information was hard.

Thanks,
Keith
 
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The forum talks about the issues with the plans and indeed there are some. For the most part, though, what I've seen is that the plans do in fact show how to build the plane, the manual is more or less helpful in pointing out certain areas where specific comment is needed to explain matters, and in general the dimensions are reliable.

I've not built a previous RV and am able to make my way through this one. As I said, if I can do it, you can too. I'm finding that the process is mostly fun and always makes me think - and those are the reasons I bought my kit. I need to be somewhat cautious because I'm not as good a builder as I wish I were and the RV-3 does have its moments.

One thing I'm learning is that any change has repercussions. A good example is the firewall which I"m building now. Since I added a Lycoming oil filter adapter and a filter and added a governor to the engine (neither are part of the design) I needed a firewall recess. Randy shows where one can go, Van's sells one, so all that is missing are the firewall stiffeners... where do they go? And with the Lycoming instead of the B&C oil filter adapter, which puts the oil filter out of the way, the firewall recess isn't big enough. These complications can't be blamed on the plans; I stepped into them all by myself.

In this case a bit of sheet metal construction and an email to Van's led to answers. And on the way I learned how to work with grade 2 Titanium, which I chose for part of the revised recess assembly.

Frankly, this airplane is easier than a plans-built plane, sans kit, would have been. Is it as easy as the quick-build RV-10 that a neighbor is building? Of course not.

If you haven't gotten at least the plans CD, get them and have a look.

Dave
 
I do like those things, but there's a limit to it at some point. I do pretty well following directions & drawings, but am not as creative as I believe most of y'all are, however I'm particular. Going through some of your (and others') build sites is showing me just how significant the photo's and text are.

Hi Keith,

I started building my -3B, 3 years ago when I was 20, I had very little metal working skills before starting the kit, and its my first (and probably not the last) build. I really enjoy the -3B, it's a (good) challenge.

Honestly, I think most people are capable enough to build a -3. It really isn't as difficult as it first seems, especially when you make it simple, break the work up into small step-by-step tasks and pace it out, while planning ahead to make sure everything will fit together.

For me the biggest challenge has been having the motivation, time and money to work on it. When I first started, I was buying tools as I needed them which slowed the build down significantly, now that I have the tools, it's just a matter of time and motivation more than anything.

Sure, I sometimes find it difficult to have the patience, and when that happens, I find the best thing is to just put everything away, go relax and think of the end product, maybe read the plans, look at the pictures, just to get a clearer idea for the next day of work, but definitely relax.

I've made plenty of mistakes so far, they're unavoidable on a kit like the -3 where you have to make a lot of the stuff yourself, and you will reorder parts (good thing they're relatively cheap), but getting into the mindset of mistakes being a 'trial run' before making the real thing has helped so much for the motivation. Before I started thinking in that way, a mistake would really hurt the motivation because I felt like it was stopping progress, but now I consider it progress anyway so I feel more motivated to get it right with what I've learnt from the 'trial' run.

When it comes to the plans, they're decent enough, anything missing I've found either online, or thinking ahead, filling in gaps, problem solving.

Like Paul suggests, building to the frame makes it reasonably easy. I've been using a similar/the same method:
1. Drawing out the measurements on the skins (rivet lines and where each hole needs to be, adjusting where necessary for flutes etc., and triple checking everything!)
2. Drilling pilot holes on the skins with a tiny 0.5mm drill bit (leaving holes undrilled that will be done with another part later as per the plans)
3. Putting center-lines or rivet lines on the ribs and spars, lining them up with the skins, clamping them tight and match drilling (starting with a hole at either end to cleco it into place so it almost certainly wont move if a clamp is bumped, then drilling the rest).

Or in the case of stiffeners in the Rudder/Elevators, measuring the skin, extending the center lines past the ends of the stiffeners, pilot drilling the stiffeners first, without drilling the skins, and then aligning & drilling them to the skin.

Doing it that way, there isn't much risk of running a rivet line off and I think it looks pretty neat. And it's not as scary as the method in the plans that suggests 'drilling blind' (I tried that on my first Vertical Stabilizer... learnt my lesson pretty quick)

If you like the idea of a challenge, go for it! I think it's worth it.
 
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Thanks Dave, Cameron, and David.
Apparently VAF is like Supercub.org, a very helpful, positive group with lots of talent.

I just ordered the preview plans & manual. I've considered this airplane several times before but every time I'd focus on the negative aspects of building it and withdraw. This time, after reading your support, thinking of the early builders, and reading through many technical posts, I'm moving ahead. And, I'm interested in the building aspect maybe more than the flying of the airplane. The sheet metal construction on my Javron Super Cub intimidated me until I really got into it, then it became some of the most enjoyable work. To get what I've never had, I'm going to have to do what I've never done.

So, at this point on this day I'm optimistic. Thank you.

Keith
 
KJP,
You didnt say you had previously build sheet metal aircraft, great! After you study the plans and manual, I think you will find this is a very doable project.
Bill
 
The Javron Super Cub has only the sheet metal that a Super Cub has. It is built from Piper's old drawings. There is not much sheet metal to it.
 
I agree word for word with what Cameron said. One thing that I am very thankful for is that I work at an airplane shop and have access to a collection of many interesting specialty tools to play with.

Glad you've got the plans ordered!
 
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Like others have suggested building a 3 is very achievable. I am a first time builder with no previous full scale building experience. I started with an emp kit then built the wings (all solid rivets and unassisted) and presently riveting forward fuselage skins, soon to remove from the jig and flip over. With steady persistence and following the plans (even though the plans are vague in places), taking the time to understand how things will fit together, searching for and saving every applicable image on the net etc makes building this little machine a very satisfying and rewarding experience, much more so than just clecoing one together I believe. Sure there are the odd errors and messed up rivet spacing's but providing that structural integrity is not compromised then it matters little and adds to the journey. The learning process is ongoing and I look back at my completed tail feathers and whilst they are considered good and sound I am tempted to do them again knowing I could do better.

I have found that the biggest difficulty for me is not the actual building but finding the time to do so, I started constructing my "pure flying machine" way back in 2006....

Russell
 
I am a first time builder with no previous full scale building experience.
Russell

Ah-ha! But you're a model airplane builder, I presume? Every spare moment of my childhood was spent building model airplanes. Aluminum isn't balsa, but I do know that experience helps. :D
 
Thanks for the welcome Mike, this site is a very valuable and much appreciated resource, very happy to pay my dues.

Yes Katie, lots of balsa models models in the past. I have a Sopwith Camel airframe awaiting tissue and dope at the moment, little wonder the RV 3 is taking so long....
 
Just received RV-3 preview plans

I'm so far back UPS kept puttin' me off?but I've got the plans now. Excitement and apprehension.
 
Will an ECI OX-340 work as a suitable engine for the -3B?

I have a good source on a new ECI OX-340. Will this engine work easily for the -3B?

Thanks, Folks
 
IO-340 w/Catto in 9A

I have a good source on a new ECI OX-340. Will this engine work easily for the -3B?

Thanks, Folks

Here's a reply from a buddy of mine who put one in a "9A". I think he said the weight is only 10 lbs more than the the O-320...

Doug

"I have the IO-340 with Catto 74X68 3-blade prop on my 9A. Finished it in 2010. I tell everyone who is willing to listen about the performance of this combination. To me this is a no-brainer configuration for the 9A. You get the performance of a 360 with the weight of a 320. I have absolutely loved the IO-340 and Catto prop combination. I fly with several RV7 guys with 360's on their planes. My plane climbs with them, cruises with them, and, oh yes (hi Figs), does it on less fuel.

PM me or send an email anytime if you want to talk details.
__________________
RVBYSDI
Steve"
 
My engine is a new OX-340 with 8.3 compression, carbureted, rear-mount B&C alternator, light-weight B&C starter, dual P-Mags, and lightened flywheel.

I have read that the RV-3s can't use a wide-deck engine; I don't know if this is considered narrow-deck or not.
 
I think that all the recent engines are wide-deck now and have been for a number of years.

Weight and power are the two major concerns. Too much of either is not necessarily good.

Dave
 
Quickbuild RV-3B

Keith,

If you want to save a whole bunch of time, you should consider purchasing my partially built RV-3B, for cheaper than you would pay to order the parts from Vans. My kit was started in 2011, just ahead of David Paule's kit (2012), so it's built with all "fresh" parts and the plans are as up to date as they come. Plus, I have all the build logs, records, receipts, etc. to date.http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=141803
 
How can I access archived threads and builders' sites?

I have been unable to access / find some builders' sites, such as Rob Holmes' site and can find only snippets of Tony Spicers' site.

Is there a way to reach these sites, is there an archive section for these sites?

Also, many older posts do not display photo's contained within the posts.

What do I do?

Thanks
 
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I have been unable to access / find some builders' sites, such as Rob Holmes' site and can find only snippets of Tony Spicers' site.

Is there a way to reach these sites, is there an archive section for these sites?

Also, many older posts do not display photo's contained within the posts.

What do I do?

Thanks

Site's go stale - that's a just a fact of Internet life. You can try the Wayback Machine to try and find old content - not sure it works f the site has actually gone away though. Photos disappearing are again, a new fact of life - photo hosting sites go away, and then the links from VAF go dead as well. WHen we started building, we cut and pasted a lot of information from live sites into our own files to make sure we captured the data before it disappeared - it's clumsy and old-school....but it works.


Randy Lervold's site is an excellent source of RV-3 material, and we made a few posts here on VAF when we built - but I'd save them off before the photo links go dead, since Picassa (where we stored all our photos) is being or has been decommissioned.
 
Make Contact..

..You could also contact the builders of those aircraft and potentially get a PDF of their build logs, complete with photos. That would certainly be helpful. Or simply call them to ask your questions. Most would probably not mind, as long as you weren't a pest.
 
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