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looking for seat rail mod

Ron B.

Well Known Member
Hello
I trying to locate the thread that discussed trimming off the seat rails so the front seats can be removed without removing the flap tube covers. I had no luck with the search feature.
Thanks Ron
 
I dont remember a thread like that, so no help from my end.

I have considered whacking a little bit off the rear of the rail, and a little off front of the seat channel till it is removable, but havent taken the time to do it. Dont want to take it all off in one place.

Gonna be interesting to see what the solution is in the old thread.
 
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Ron,

I think you might be getting confused with the recent Matronics thread.

Here's the info on two separate solutions....

Hey Guys,

I asked the inspector (Vic Syracuse) - who has built a couple of -10's - if he had any tricks for getting the seats out. He said he trimmed off the upper "ears" of the rear of the I rails so that after removing the seat position pin, the seat slides back, then tips up without hitting the flap tunnel covers. I did that today and it works like a charm.

Later, - Lew

seat_rails_medium_130.jpg






Option #2
========

Instead of trimming the rails, consider beveling the front of the plastic strips so that the seat will tip up for removal. (Where the interference occurs.)

Albert Gardner
N991RV
Yuma, AZ


#2 Same Thing - Explained Differently
Less intrusive...works great too. I just 45ved the nylon parts and it tips up and comes out fine.

Tim
 
Me confused, naw. Thanks that where it was hidden. No wander I could not find it with a search.
Thanks a million
Ron
 
If it helps, I thought it was on VAF too.....

(and I never make mistakes!) :D

........It took me a little work to locate it...
 
T-handle tip

Nice to know - will do it as well.

Another tip - I see that some purchase a longer T-handle. Just move the LH outboard rail to the RH inboard and the RH outboard rail to the LH inboard. Also change the two seats accordingly. So now your T-handles are next to the central tunnel and are much easier to operate and you do not have to buy long T-handles. ;)
 
I also saw Vic's fix and have already done one set. Prepare yourself for a lot of grinding aluminum. I found that a carbide toothed steel drum on the drill press worked best, but not easy.

Now, if somebody would just come up with an easier way to remove the T-handle....

John
 
Hinge the flap cover instead

What I have also done was to hinge the flap cover on the bottom and added a latch to the top, hidden under the rear seat bottoms. Now you simply undo the latch, hinge forward the flap cover and slide out the seats.

Other positives are that I now have easy access to some wiring and 02 lines.
 
Seat rail mod

I just chamfered mine from about 1/4 inch on the top to 0 on the bottom. I also got the idea from Vic.

Pat
 
All you need to do is remove the UMHW plastic tracks that go around the
aluminum seat rails and cut the fronts back about 3/8". That allows enough
to remove seats without cutting up the aluminum rails and taking the rear foot/flap kick plates out. It takes about 5 minutes per seat. There is no need to cut the rails.

Geoff
 
I did the same as Geoff, works great.......shimmed my rails two weeks ago and now my seats "glide" back and forth. I also added nutplates to the handles to make them easier to remove and install......you never stop building. :)
 
Just finally getting round to fitting the front seats.

Can someone please just confirm exactly what needs to be done to avoid having to remove the flap tube cover? I gather that the top UMHW insert at the front of the seat needs to be angled. This would allow the back of the seat to clear the flap cover as it is inserted on to the rails. Is that right?

Putting the seats in - must be getting close! :D
 
You can remove them and just cut about 3/4-1" off the front of them and it will clear the flap tube covers.
 
I think trimming the aft end of the tracks at a 45 deg angle resolves the problem (it effectively moves the track portion fwd about 3/4 inch).
 
All you need to do is remove the UMHW plastic tracks that go around the
aluminum seat rails and cut the fronts back about 3/8". That allows enough
to remove seats without cutting up the aluminum rails and taking the rear foot/flap kick plates out. It takes about 5 minutes per seat. There is no need to cut the rails.

Geoff

I did exactly that. Works great. Much easier and cleaner than shaving the rails IMO.

The other half of the seat mod is to attach nutplates on the bottom of the plate where the rear slide stop attaches. A little more work initially, but well worth it. To remove the seats post mod, instead of having to remove the four bolts of the T latch (which face the sidewall), you simply remove the two bolts of the rear stop that are upright and easy to access with a socket extension. With these two mods, removing the seats is a two minute job each. Remove the two rear stop bolts, pull the T handle, and the seat slides right out clean. Both mods are no brainers and should be incorporated into the Van's manual. They have both been discussed on the forums extensively in the past with details and pictures.

In my humble opinion, these seat mods, the Matco nosewheel/axle, and the Planearound door mod are the singular three most important/useful mods of any RV10 project. Friends don't let friends build without them. Van's has a terrific design, but all three of these items SHOULD BE DIRECTLY INCORPORATED INTO THE FACTORY PLANS. The icing on the cake, however, would have to be Geoff's overhead console. :D
 
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So how often are you guys pulling the front seats out that make having the seat mod (s) worthwhile?

Several times during the build. I put the seats in with just the plastic over them to have a place to sit during panel build/install. Pulled them out to install the Abbey covers and the seat heaters. Once for the paint shop. Once for a quick 10 hour inspection during phase one. Once for a 50 hour inspection after phase one prior to OSH trip. Once to remove/bypass a leaking parking brake valve. Once again a few weeks later to replace repaired valve. Once during first condition inspection.

That's the first year. Hopefully less going forward.

Edited note: I forgot the most important one. Once to do the seat mods!
 
Ok you pulled yours way more than me. While I see absolutely nothing wrong with modifying the seat rails, I don't see it anywhere near as critical as the door or axle mods. IOW, IMO you can easily live without doing this. YMMV......
 
I'm getting lots of opinions but it's really hard to tie you guys down to a definitive!!

So, top of the guides attached to the seat - remove some of the plastic and you get enough flex space to get the seats in - is that it?
 
I'm getting lots of opinions but it's really hard to tie you guys down to a definitive!!

So, top of the guides attached to the seat - remove some of the plastic and you get enough flex space to get the seats in - is that it?

That is one way that absolutely works. Other ways can work too, but that way does work, and the mod takes about 15 minutes.
 
So how often are you guys pulling the front seats out that make having the seat mod (s) worthwhile?

Way more than you think you would. It's easier to make one of the two mods instead of taking the flap rod cover off every time.

I did the mod that Scott referenced. Both seem to work just fine.
 
I did the mod that Scott referenced. Both seem to work just fine.

It is the only one I can really recommend because it maintains the full integrity of the seat attachment to the track.
Trimming the aft portion off of the track has no influence because the position of the seat in flight (even for someone with very long legs) puts it no where near the aft end of the track.
 
I've only built 6 RV10's and have removed/installed seats MANY MANY times. I have never removed the flap covers or even the carpet. I must be missing something in regard to all of these 'seat mods' that are required :eek:?


Way more than you think you would. It's easier to make one of the two mods instead of taking the flap rod cover off every time.

I did the mod that Scott referenced. Both seem to work just fine.
 
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I just swear a bit while I jam the seat forward and aft until I dent the flap cover enough to pull the back of the seat up. I then bang the inside of the RV with the seal rails until I forcefully get it out the door. I walk down the wing and jump on the step that flexes with the added weight and finally open a beer.
 
I just swear a bit while I jam the seat forward and aft until I dent the flap cover enough to pull the back of the seat up. I then bang the inside of the RV with the seal rails until I forcefully get it out the door. I walk down the wing and jump on the step that flexes with the added weight and finally open a beer.

Lol!!! Sean uh huh...and you are the one that designed the third latch with clever enginuity... Your seats probably auto lift and pivot out of the door opening with a remote app from your iPhone...knowing your capabilities:)
 
Seats Removal

I did not build "In Excess." I've have had to learn the plane piece-by-piece. Wiring, ailerons, & working under the panel have all benefited from seat removal.

In the past removing the seat rails was very painful. After Jesse Saint's change to the back of the rails, the seats are removed/replaced in less than 10 mins.

I have removed the seats at least three times in the past year. Removal is, now, always my first option rather then my last (as in the past).

Removing the piece at the back of the rails for me is a real time saver!
 
I've only built 6 RV10's and have removed/installed seats MANY MANY times. I have never removed the flap covers or even the carpet. I must be missing something in regard to all of these 'seat mods' that are required :eek:?

Rick, you must be doing the mod in your sleep and have forgotten about it. The standard -10 seats hit the flap cover before they can come far enough aft to be free of the rail.
 
I'm getting lots of opinions but it's really hard to tie you guys down to a definitive!!

So, top of the guides attached to the seat - remove some of the plastic and you get enough flex space to get the seats in - is that it?

Yep. All you have to do is chamfer that front edge of the plastic/UHMW to about a 45 degree angle. That allows the rear of the seat to tip up just before it hits the flap covers. Takes just a few minutes and requires no metal grinding.
 
+10

I did exactly that. Works great. Much easier and cleaner than shaving the rails IMO.

The other half of the seat mod is to attach nutplates on the bottom of the plate where the rear slide stop attaches. A little more work initially, but well worth it. To remove the seats post mod, instead of having to remove the four bolts of the T latch (which face the sidewall), you simply remove the two bolts of the rear stop that are upright and easy to access with a socket extension. With these two mods, removing the seats is a two minute job each. Remove the two rear stop bolts, pull the T handle, and the seat slides right out clean. Both mods are no brainers and should be incorporated into the Van's manual. They have both been discussed on the forums extensively in the past with details and pictures.

In my humble opinion, these seat mods, the Matco nosewheel/axle, and the Planearound door mod are the singular three most important/useful mods of any RV10 project. Friends don't let friends build without them. Van's has a terrific design, but all three of these items SHOULD BE DIRECTLY INCORPORATED INTO THE FACTORY PLANS. The icing on the cake, however, would have to be Geoff's overhead console. :D

Ditto on everything. The nutplates on the back of the seat rails may be the best mod. If you have to remove your seats even once it is worth it vs the bruised knuckles and blue words that go with removing the T handle. One factor that isn't considered is how often you HAVE to remove the seats vs how often you may WANT to remove your seats to check control fittings, fuel lines, and other important stuff under them. If you WANT to but don't HAVE to you won't do it. Cutting the bevel on the front of the plastic guides is the way to go.
 
It is the only one I can really recommend because it maintains the full integrity of the seat attachment to the track.
Trimming the aft portion off of the track has no influence because the position of the seat in flight (even for someone with very long legs) puts it no where near the aft end of the track.

Frankly I disagree with this statement. Full aft the seat track hangs well aft of the rail already. My rudder pedals are in the aft position, so I have had some tall pilots in the right seat position the seat well aft. And when just two aboard my wife often has the seat full aft just so the stick is not in the way of a book in her lap. I would opt for the 'trim a bit of the front plastic' option.
 
Looking for seat rail mod

As well as trimming the front of the nylon seat runners about 3/8 inch to allow the seat to be removed rearward, you might also consider fitting nut plates under the seat stops, you need to replace the existing Bots with longer ones but the seat removal then only requires removing two bolts that hold the stops and the seats slide right off, no need to remove the T Handle bracket. Not my idea but works like a dream. Cheers from Western Australia
 
I fitted the seats today.

I put the chamfer on the front of the plastic and cut the rear of the rails. After scratching my head a bit and finally working it out, I didn't see the point of nutplates on the T-handle. You can't get a socket on the outside and if you lift the seat cushion, access to the nuts is easy.

First seat took me 2 hours. Second one, 20 minutes. Thinks - if it seems THAT hard, you are probably doing something wrong ;) We live and learn.....
 
I After scratching my head a bit and finally working it out, I didn't see the point of nutplates on the T-handle. You can't get a socket on the outside and if you lift the seat cushion, access to the nuts is easy.

Nut plates go on the T handle body, bolts go in from the inside------just lift the seat cushion and remove the bolts.

P1300016.JPG


P1300015.JPG
 
I fitted the seats today.

After scratching my head a bit and finally working it out, I didn't see the point of nutplates on the T-handle. ....

It all depends on how much, if any, interior you install between the T handle and the outside cabin wall. I have none, access is easy. Others have put side panels in there and now find it hard to get at the outboard side of the T handle.
 
I have the Flightline interior and it was no problem inserting the bolts from the outside and getting a spanner on them.
 
Looking for seat rail mod

Now that we've got trimming the front of the nylon runners as an easier option than chopping off the rear of the seat rails past the brains trust, its a pretty easy step to see that by putting two nut plates per seat under the Seat Floors F1067A to secure the seat rail stops means that now only two (longer) easily accessed bolts need to be removed so the seat rail stops can be removed and then the seat just slides off rearward. So........no need to fit four nut plates per seat to the T handle assembly, no need to remove the T handle assembly for seat removal, no need to lift the cushions to access bolts or nuts etc, just a real good idea, wasn't mine but it was on Matronics or VAF some time ago. Cheers from Western Australia
 
>>its a pretty easy step to see that by putting two nut plates per seat under the Seat Floors F1067A to secure the seat rail stops means that now only two (longer) easily accessed bolts need to be removed so the seat rail stops can be removed and then the seat just slides off rearward. So........no need to fit four nut plates per seat to the T handle assembly, no need to remove the T handle assembly for seat removal, no need to lift the cushions to access bolts or nuts etc, just a real good idea,<<

Exactly. That's what I did and it works great. Easier to mod and more user friendly to access than the T handle IMO.
 
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Data point

Ok so I had my unmodified front seats out working on my interior and on a whim decided to try and reinstall them without removing the carpet or more importantly the flap torque tube covers . And....the seats went on just fine. I could see that had the carpet not been on the covers that they most likely would have been scratched, but a piece of tape strategically placed on the covers would have prevented that.
 
What is your builder number? Is it possible Vans has made a small mod (and not advertised it)? Be interesting to compare your seats, rails, torque tube cover to an older plane.
 
What Bob said,-------------- I had been wondering the same thing.

There is no way that my seats would come out as factory built.
 
So I guess I should have asked, when did you get the finish kit (seats). My builder number is 40745, finish kit in mid 2009 if I recall correctly. My seats do not come out with the flap torque tube cover in place. I've tried!
 
I would sure like to see a pic of the modified UMHW. I have my pilot's seat out now and and both seat stops loose. It would be easy to make the changes.

thanks

~Marc
 
It's pretty easy, I just did it the other day. Just chop about 3/4" off of the plastic guide material at the front of the rail and it'll easily install and come out.
 
Y'all should do the "Stamper mod" while you're at it. Pull the two 1/4 inch flush bolts out of the rear stop, screw the rail in with a couple four screws and drill down through the seat cover. There's just enough room to miss the spar (don't plunge it) and install -4 nutplates in the seat cover. You'll never have to unbolt the T- handle again.
 
Looking for seat rail mod

Ron, Just do a search on Vans Airforce RV10 forum for "Looking for seat rail mod" just about everything known to man about RV10 front seat removal is there. Cheers from Western Australia
 
Ron, Just do a search on Vans Airforce RV10 forum for "Looking for seat rail mod" just about everything known to man about RV10 front seat removal is there. Cheers from Western Australia

The only thing that comes up with that search term is this thread! :)

regards

-Marc
 
I'll be back to work on my 10 next week after not touching it for 10 months. Pretty excited to finish it up. I'll post some pictures of the mod aerhed was talking about. I did the nut plates on the back of the T-handle and it still took to long to take the seats out so I ended up figuring out the nut plate on the bottom of the cover. It leterally takes 2 minutes to pull a seat. Takes longer to go to the tool box and get the socket then it does to pull the seats.
 
stripped screws

Y'all should do the "Stamper mod" while you're at it. Pull the two 1/4 inch flush bolts out of the rear stop, screw the rail in with a couple four screws and drill down through the seat cover. There's just enough room to miss the spar (don't plunge it) and install -4 nutplates in the seat cover. You'll never have to unbolt the T- handle again.

I would recommend doing this mod before installing the seat rails for the second or third last time :). The 14 or so flush head AN screws in the seat rails are a PIA and prone to stripping.
 
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