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Flyguytki

Well Known Member
Hey Doug you need to add a Sticky so that we can all follow along on the builds

david

[ed. Done! dr]
 
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THANKS JIM!!

Thanks for loading these up. Great pictures and comments.

For other users not used to Picasa... you can use the "zoom" tool after opening a picture... but I prefer to go to "slideshow" and then pausing it and looking at the picture(s) I want. Also... to get an even bigger picture... add a "fullscreen" button to your browser toolbar... then go full screen when viewing the pictures. Then you have a full-sized picture filling your monitor screen.

Awesome!! :D DJ
 
Great Pictures!

Pictures are large and crystal clear! Thanks so much.

When I see all those tools you have in the background, your large work tables and the great results you've gotten so far, I become a bit intimidated. :eek:

If you would like to take a 600-900 hour vacation in sunny Florida ... just come on down! :D :D :D
 
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HOORAY!!!

I can see them!

Thanks for doing this Jim. I know that doing the "web thing" can get in the way of the build. I am sure that we ALL appreciate the extra effort.

Regards,

Anthony
 
I can see them!

Thanks for doing this Jim. I know that doing the "web thing" can get in the way of the build. I am sure that we ALL appreciate the extra effort.

Regards,

Anthony

The web thing will not get in the way. I am a technical counselor and teach metal working, riveting, welding, and composite work because I enjoy helping others. I will share my experiences and hope that they help other builders end up with a good plane and enjoy the experience.
 
Hi Jim,

Thanks for the high res pictures.

Now I noticed the wave on the rib flanges between the holes...Looks like Vans has gone the extra mile to save weight there too. I was talking to a aircraft designer a couple of weeks back and he told me about that and other things they do to save weight. Nowadays that everything is CNC cut it take a little longer to cut that wavey path, but once set up it can easily be redone AND the weight savings all add up in the end.

Cool, keep them comming.

Kind Regards
Rudi
 
No primer?

ROFL!!!

Too funny! At the rate that wing is going together, it looks like it would take more time to prime it than to build it. Plus, I think Jim posted that he wasn't going to prime given the expected life expectancy of the plane (sans primer) compared to normal human life spans...

Cheers!

Anthony
 
Hi Jim,

Thanks for the high res pictures.

Now I noticed the wave on the rib flanges between the holes...Looks like Vans has gone the extra mile to save weight there too. I was talking to a aircraft designer a couple of weeks back and he told me about that and other things they do to save weight. Nowadays that everything is CNC cut it take a little longer to cut that wavey path, but once set up it can easily be redone AND the weight savings all add up in the end.

Cool, keep them comming.

Kind Regards
Rudi

My guess is that those wavy flanges reduce the need for fluting as well since deformation will be reduced in the press. Very cool.
 
The web thing will not get in the way. I am a technical counselor and teach metal working, riveting, welding, and composite work because I enjoy helping others. I will share my experiences and hope that they help other builders end up with a good plane and enjoy the experience.

Thanks Jim for sharing all the information. Where do you teach? I live in Spanaway and my have to attend one of your courses. They say you can not teach an old dog new tricks but I am willing to try to learn some new ones. Have to hurry though as I turn 70 next month. Need to get my 12 ordered soon.
 
I think another interesting thing about the RV-12 is that Van's went back to the laminated spar cap design.
 
Rivet Puller

Thanks for the photos - we are very interested. I would like to know which brand and number of 'rivet puller' you are recommending. My guess is that an air operated 'rivet puller' will produce a more uniform and 'better' final product. Thanks for your recommendation.
 
work bench?

Jim ... are those (Sam's Club) long white hollow white plastic tables you are building your wings on? If so, what length table are they? Might I be able to forgo building a wooden work bench or do you think I'll need a large wooden work bench for the fuselage?

As per Van's, my kit (#0003) will probably be shipped the week of 5/5/08. Just trying to get ready.
 
Are all parts premade?

Jim Cone,

Are all the parts in the wing kit pre-made? Have you had to do anything other than trimming, drilling, deburring, etc?

Thank you for posting the pictures.

I think we are all enjoying and encouraged by seeing the rapid progress you are making.
 
I'm wondering the same... the fully detailed builder manual and seemingly ease of construction due to a pleather of pre-drilled holes makes building an rv-4 seem like building from scratch with a "hints and ideas" manual and "Van drew these with a doodle pad late one night" drawings.
 
Jim ... are those (Sam's Club) long white hollow white plastic tables you are building your wings on? If so, what length table are they? Might I be able to forgo building a wooden work bench or do you think I'll need a large wooden work bench for the fuselage?

As per Van's, my kit (#0003) will probably be shipped the week of 5/5/08. Just trying to get ready.
Yes, those are tables from Costco. I think that you still need a work bench. Mine is 3 feet by 6 feet. I have two drawers for the tools that I use most often. I assembled the wing frame on the bench and then took it out to my hangar and put it on the table because it is a little lower than my bench and it is easier to reach the rivets in the center of the wing.
 
Jim - How many hours would you guess have been spent on the two wings?
It took me 40 and a half hours to complete both wing structures and complete one wing except for the tip, which is installer later. I am up to about 65 hours and I have completed skinning the bottom of the right wing as well.
 
Hey Jim Cone,

Thank's, so much, for posting your progress and answering our questions on this site. Your experience and thoughts are extremely valuable and appreciated.

Now that you have completed the wing skeletons and are in the process of skinning, what are your thoughts about using solid rivets on the skeleton portion. I wouldn't even consider doing that on the skins, but I really like AN470's on the internal structures. Your thoughts??

Tom
 
More Pics

Ok Jim, its been a couple of days, need more pics. :D Thanks to you and Jerry for the updates.
 
As per Van's, my kit (#0003) will probably be shipped the week of 5/5/08. Just trying to get ready.


I also ordered an RV12 at SNF on tuesday morning, probably an hour after you did.

How did you get the 5/5 ship date. I have not heard much from Vans on my order.

If you are 003 I should be 005 or 006, or maybe even 007 :)

How did you find out you are 003?
 
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I also ordered an RV12 at SNF on tuesday morning, probably an hour after you did.

How did you get the 5/5 ship date. I have not heard much from Vans on my order.

If you are 003 I should be 007 :)

How did you find out you are 003?

I spoke with Van's today. I didn't ask for specifics on my ship date (ordered on 4/12 or so), but spoke in general about their development timeline. The tech I spoke with said that "one kit" has shipped so far, and I think we all know where that one ended up. They are, per the tech, working out a few final issues with the wing kit (again, no specifics), and expect to ship more kits next week. He also said that they'd be rolling out the rest of the kits 1-2mo's apart, with the whole thing available by the end of the year. Then will come the quick-build kits.

So, on the whole, not much in the way of new information. I hope they keep feeding Jim a constant supply of aluminum bits, 'cause it sure doesn't look like "one to two months" between kits is going to cut it at the rate he is going!

He did indicate that Vne for the airframe is estimated at about 150kts, "but don't hold me to that."
 
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There is no need for solid rivets in the wings. Avex rivets are more than adequate for the structure. Rivets are designed to be used in shear and the ribs would deform or tear before the rivets would fail. Stick to the plans and build it like Van's designed it.
 
more pictures

Ok Jim, its been a couple of days, need more pics. :D Thanks to you and Jerry for the updates.


Any pictures that I would add would just be repeats of the ones for the left wing. I have finished the bottom skins for the right wing and installed the rib supports for the hinge bracket assemblies. I should finish the skinning tomorrow if my work schedule permits. Then I will be on to a new task and have more pictures. I am keeping an album of pictures for my E/AB certification along with a very detailed log of tasks completed and the time spent. In that album, I do have repeat pictures to go with my log. I will not keep anything from you guys. You will get to see it all. Please be patient with me. I do have to work occasionally to support my toys and travel habits.
 
RV-12 # 0003

Alan ... When I called the factory and asked for a shipping date, they told me the week of 5/5/08 (said the spars were out being plated?) & then they told me I was #0003.

I bought the wood and castors to build the wing rack yesterday. I'm going to make it with 2 of the castors having brakes. I've decided to make one work bench 2x8 (including the 2-3" overhang around the table top and add four castors with locks) and build it with the same size shelf on the bottom ... no drawers ... "KISS" (my building mantra ... keep it simple, stupid). :)
 
Attn: JerryG150

Wow! Been following the board but just joined today. I was at Sun-n-Fun and stepped up to the line to order an RV-12 kit early Tuesday, 8th April. Just got a confirmation that my kit will ship on the week starting 4/28. I don't know what number in line I am but I didn't think it was that low. Looks like two kits will be built not far from each other in Florida so we should keep in touch. I'm in Naples.
 
Kit number and shipping date

Alan ... When I called the factory and asked for a shipping date, they told me the week of 5/5/08 (said the spars were out being plated?) & then they told me I was #0003



I called Vans and asked for shipping date and kit number. They said that my kit number was 56. Soooo...I guess that 53 people ordered RV12s in the hour between the time you and I ordered ours.

They don't have any shipping date, only an estimate of 6-8 weeks.

Too bad, I am retired and was hoping to get started pretty soon. I set up a web site to share my experiences with you guys. I was thinking that I would make pretty fast progress since I am retired. I thought this would be a good way to help other by sharing my experience through my website. As it stands you, and James Cone (and others) will be helping me via your experiences.

Anyhow, thanks for the info!
 
More construction pictures 4-26-08

Ok Jim, its been a couple of days, need more pics. :D Thanks to you and Jerry for the updates.

I finished skinning both wings and have started on the left wing tip. That is certainly the most complicated task so far, but I am ready to start riveting tomorrow. I am absolutely amazed that things go together like they do. To look at the parts and the plans, you say "No way is this going to work!" and then by golly, it actually does. WOW!!! I am ever more impressed with Van's group of geniuses who put this thing together.

The link to the latest pictures is http://picasaweb.google.com/JimCone1941/RV12Construction42608


Enjoy. I certainly am.
 
Jim...great photos!

I have been enjoying your picasa photos and have found lots of helpful hints. I especially like the way you used cargo straps to skin the wings. Good point about "dont use pic to line up holes"...I hadn't thought about how that could tear the skin.

Nice idea using the Harbor freight magnet too!
 
Jim, Having not built a homebuilt before I have a question about inspections. At what point during the wing building process did you have your work inspected?

Thanks

(By the way, you make it look and sound too easy for us beginners. Wish I was closer to take to your training class.)

Frank
 
more great photos

Thanks Jim, I enjoyed the photos this morning. I was only kidding about every couple of days but this project is moving. John.
 
Left wing completed and new photos 4-27-08

I finished the left wing today and started on the right wing tip. I posted new photos today. Go to: http://picasaweb.google.com/JimCone1941/RV12ConstructionPictures42708

I am up to 99 hours. I was amazed that the bottom skin lined up perfectly with no adjustment needed to all of the tabs that were bent. All those angles were just right. When the the skin was riveted, it ended up with a compound bend. I never would have guessed. Enjoy the pictures.
 
Jim, Having not built a homebuilt before I have a question about inspections. At what point during the wing building process did you have your work inspected?

Thanks

(By the way, you make it look and sound too easy for us beginners. Wish I was closer to take to your training class.)

Frank

I have not had the plane inspected. There is not really that much that can go wrong. It is just like an erector set. You just put it together. Simple.
 
Pre made parts - Yes

Jim Cone,

Are all the parts in the wing kit pre-made? Have you had to do anything other than trimming, drilling, deburring, etc?

Thank you for posting the pictures.

I think we are all enjoying and encouraged by seeing the rapid progress you are making.


All of the parts are ready to assemble. Very little drilling, no deburring the holes except the ones that you drill. Just deburr the edges of things with a quick swipe of a Scotch Brite wheel and it is ready to assemble. No trimming yet. Quick and easy.
 
Wing Crate?

Jim ... When the wing crate arrives will the driver and I be able to get it off the truck and into my garage? Will I need additional manpower to unload?

Congratulations on finishing your wings so quickly! If you can do it in two weeks (99 hours) then I certainly can do it in ... ... ... four to six weeks (300 hours) I hope! :eek:
 
Photo Request

Jim, Thanks for the great photos. I'm following along in with the Wing Plans in hand and it is absolutly great.

Two request for you next set of pictures:

1) A photo of the dimpled flush leading edge rivets (CS4-4) near the wing roots. The plans say to dimple two holes, but use many many more flush rivets. I assume that the other holes are already dimpled.

2) A photo of the wing tip trailing edge insert from below.

A question: How do you plan to get access to the the wires for the wing tip lights after riveting the wing tips up?

Thanks in advance, Dave
 
Jim ... When the wing crate arrives will the driver and I be able to get it off the truck and into my garage? Will I need additional manpower to unload?

Congratulations on finishing your wings so quickly! If you can do it in two weeks (99 hours) then I certainly can do it in ... ... ... four to six weeks (300 hours) I hope! :eek:

The spars are 13 feet long and are not very heavy, but two of them in a crate will need two people, one on each end. The rest of the kit is not very heavy. Again, two people shoud be able to handle it. The box of pop rivets is a one man job.
 
Jim, Thanks for the great photos. I'm following along in with the Wing Plans in hand and it is absolutly great.

Two request for you next set of pictures:

1) A photo of the dimpled flush leading edge rivets (CS4-4) near the wing roots. The plans say to dimple two holes, but use many many more flush rivets. I assume that the other holes are already dimpled.

2) A photo of the wing tip trailing edge insert from below.

A question: How do you plan to get access to the the wires for the wing tip lights after riveting the wing tips up?

Thanks in advance, Dave

There are actually three holes that you have to dimple, two on one side and one on the other. All of the other holes on the inboard section are already dimpled. You won't be able to dimple any holes further down the wing because you would need a C frame much deeper than the ones currently available. I had the same thought and was going to dimple and use flush pop rivets from the leading edge back to the spar. It was a good thought, but it just wasn't possible with my C frame.

I will post more photos soon and will get the trailing edge at that time.

You tape a string in the fairleads. I assume that when you get the optional wing tip lights and the fairing that is needed, you will cut a small hole in the tip and reach in with a pickup tool to get the string. I assume that the same would be true when you get the optional landing light kit. Now, don't start asking about these options because that is pure speculation on my part and "I know nothing!" as Sgt. Schultz used to say.
 
I'm almost sad that you're finishing up with the wings. Now I need to find somebody else's life to live vicariously while I wait for Van's to work out their remaining production issues...

But, seriously, great work! And thanks so much for sharing your experience and photos with us. I can only hope that they'll get the empennage kit out soon or you may get rusty waiting for the next 100hrs of work.
 
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I'm almost sad that you're finishing up with the wings. Now I need to find somebody else's life to live vicariously while I wait for Van's to work out their remaining production issues...

But, seriously, great work! And thanks so much for sharing your experience and photos with us. I can only hope that they'll get the empennage kit out soon or you may get rusty waiting for the next 100hrs of work.

I finished the wings. It took 102.5 hours. I took close up pictures of things that guys have asked for. The link is: http://picasaweb.google.com/JimCone1941/RV12Construction42908

I have started on the flaperons. One of the pictures is of the first thing that you make.

Also, someone asked about the close area rivet tool that I made. I sent pictures and descriptions to Van's and gave them all rights to the design. They may make them or get Avery to do it. That is what I have done with all of the tools that I have made. I believe in sharing when I can.
 
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