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oshkosh ground opps

burgundyja

Well Known Member
What are the rules for engine start? I know that you have too wait for the atis. I waited until I heard it then there was a ground person near me so I waived for engine start. She gave me a thumbs up I started and then she waived me forward. When I got to the pavement there was someone else that stopped me. He said that only a person with a _____ color shirt can tell you to start. and he also said you had to pull the aircraft by hand to the end of the alley. Is this in the notam?
 
Definitely not what I did...

I was in HBC and left Wednesday morning. The directions were to wait until the Airport was open. ATIS would indicate. Pull your plane out of the camping spot and start your engine. Taxi towards the taxiways and be directed by EAA ground ops. We headed toward 27 along with three other planes. Never saw anyone. After a little confusion and starts and stops looking for direction we left from 27 following another plane coming from the Terminal.
Granted there was little to no traffic but that was the same procedure a saw plane after plane follow Tuesday afternoon. No Ground OPS until the taxiways.

Sounds like someone might have let his shirt go to his head. My son was stopped and bag checked as he was walking to the show from HBC. Some kid sitting on a Gator? Some people!
 
I asked at the departure briefing booth when I was getting ready to leave HBC Wed. morning. I thought I had a handle on the procedure, but wanted to make sure. They guy there told me to check ATIS for weather (airport was quite obviously open) and pull the plane into the aisle, a ground guide should show up (they watch for movement). He also said that if no one showed up I was to check the area, carefully start and taxi to the pavement.

I pulled my plane out into the aisle and an EAA volunteer ground person appeared on a scooter within a minute or two. I followed him as far as taxiway P. It was the same process we used last year when I was in the right seat of a friend's 7A in HBP. I don't recall ever seeing anyone pull the plane out farther than the middle of the row.
 
oops... i was parked in the north 40 and left thursday morning. there was no one around and it was raining. i got axis, started it up, pulled out of my parking space and taxied to the edge of the grass until i got a hold of ground control.
 
I asked at the departure briefing booth when I was getting ready to leave HBC Wed. morning. I thought I had a handle on the procedure, but wanted to make sure. They guy there told me to check ATIS for weather (airport was quite obviously open) and pull the plane into the aisle, a ground guide should show up (they watch for movement). He also said that if no one showed up I was to check the area, carefully start and taxi to the pavement.

I pulled my plane out into the aisle and an EAA volunteer ground person appeared on a scooter within a minute or two. I followed him as far as taxiway P. It was the same process we used last year when I was in the right seat of a friend's 7A in HBP. I don't recall ever seeing anyone pull the plane out farther than the middle of the row.

This is the same experience I had on departure from HBC.
 
Me too!

This is the same experience I had on departure from HBC.

I left Friday afternoon just before the show from HBP. I pulled out my plane into the aisle and wing walkers came to my plane almost immediately. By the time I was strapped in, a Flight Line guy in a Gator pulled up and signaled me to start up and follow him. Piece of cake.
 
The way Dale and Bud described it is exactly how the system is supposed to work. When things get busy we do can get overwhelmed, but please be patient at the world's busiest airport.

As far as putting it in the NOTAM- there is already enough information in there that half the pilots don't bother to read (nobody who flew in on Sunday this year would disagree with this.) The reason for pulling out into the aisle is common courtesy- there are airplanes parked right behind you (with tents in HBC) and your prop wash is powerful. Besides, this info is passed on by the departure briefers... you did talk to departure briefing before you left, right???
 
Sounds like there might be some confusion between pulling the plane out of its parking spot & turning it prior to start, vs the OP's question about being told to pull the plane all the way to a taxiway.

On another subject,
"i got axis"
Was it bold as love? (just checking your age & artistic/cultural leanings)

Charlie
 
Besides, this info is passed on by the departure briefers... you did talk to departure briefing before you left, right???

The briefer that gave me my departure briefing was very thorough and included that info (though I knew all of it already from many years of attending fly-ins).
It is standard ops at any fly-in where anyone is parked behind you and/or there might be pedestrians walking about the parking area.
I did have to wait about 5 minutes for a guy on a scooter. No big deal. It is just part of the whole experience.

It is unfortunate that the majority of pilots seem to be ignorant about where their prop blast goes most of the time. Particularly when maneuvering through 6" tall grass (takes a lot of power application just to keep it moving).
I even saw a very high profile RV-6A owner (name withheld to avoid public embarrassment ;)) totally clear a table of handouts and literature at the Teen Aircraft Build display while relocating their airplane during the week. There was lots of people around that could have helped get it into the parking space on the grass, instead of a high power 270 degree turn.

Do you strive to be professional in your flying?
Start with ground opps and keep a close check on your prop blast.........
 
Basic student pilot training

Did your flight instructor teach you to pull the aircraft out of the parking spot between airplanes and turn 90-degrees before starting when you were learning to fly?

When parked between other aircraft, it is expected that the aircraft operator pull the aircraft out and rotate 90-degrees or what ever is required so as to not blast the other aircraft with the prop blast. I am concerned about the aircraft parked next to me as much as I am my own. Would you want the aircraft parked next to you to pull out and blast your aircraft with the prop wash? If not, why would you blast another aircraft with yours?
 
I have to admit I was slightly confused on departure this year, primarily because I left so early Wednesday morning. As I walked in the back entrance near the Orange parking lot past HBC around 6 am, I saw several RVs firing up with no helpers to be seen. In the 15 or so minutes it took me to load up in HBP, I had pulled my -12 out of its spot but still no walkers. I just assumed there were very few on duty at that hour so I just taxied to Alpha and over to 27. I did need to verify that I could cross that end of 18 without clearance (I could), but otherwise, I never saw a single ground handler. It wasn't a problem, just unexpected.
 
What are the rules for engine start? I know that you have too wait for the atis. I waited until I heard it then there was a ground person near me so I waived for engine start. She gave me a thumbs up I started and then she waived me forward. When I got to the pavement there was someone else that stopped me. He said that only a person with a _____ color shirt can tell you to start. and he also said you had to pull the aircraft by hand to the end of the alley. Is this in the notam?

The procedure for the 11 years I've been attending with my RV-8 has been to listen to ATIS for airport info, push the airplane into the alley in front of where you are parked and turn the plane 90 degrees (no need to push it to end of the row). Wait for a volunteer on a scooter, start up when he/she gives the start signal and follow them to the taxiway and then to where other ground volunteers pick you up to indicate which departure runway to use.

This has always worked in the past. Saturday this year was a bit unusual in that the scooter volunteers were pretty scarce when I left (about 7:30 a.m. engine start). I give the volunteers the benefit of the doubt as they were either shorthanded or busy herding all the "cats" who were being independent.

I actually had a volunteer on a scooter gave me a "second" departure briefing as I was packing up the plane (I'd already received a briefing at the usual Departures shack). But, once I pulled the plane into the alley I waited some 20 minutes and no scooter ever came by. In the meantime, I watched four other RVs start on their own (no scooters nearby) and taxi to the tarmac. I got frustrated myself so went ahead and started the engine, but I waited in place for a scooter to spot me. It took a few minutes but one eventually did and led me to the taxiway.

It may just be that EAA and those of us who have attended the show for years have forgotten that new folks attending may not be aware of the procedure. Communicating with such a large and diverse group isn't easy. And as this year's record attendance by Vans RVs evidenced, the HBP/HBC area continues to grow with new attendees. Maybe the procedure needs to be added to the NOTAM -- couldn't hurt.

The procedure as Jeff points out earlier in this thread works as long as everybody is on the same page. The departure briefers in the HBP area are good at pointing out the procedure. So be sure to get a briefing and be patient.

Fly safe (including the taxi).

Chris
 
Did your flight instructor teach you to pull the aircraft out of the parking spot between airplanes and turn 90-degrees before starting when you were learning to fly?


Not the OP, but no instructor I've ever had nor any FBO I've ever rented from used that procedure - and I've been flying since 1985. YMMV...
 
Not the OP, but no instructor I've ever had nor any FBO I've ever rented from used that procedure - and I've been flying since 1985. YMMV...

Not to pile on, but no FBO I've ever rented from has used that procedure either.

Heya Todd. I think we met at one of the socials. :)
 
Did your flight instructor teach you to pull the aircraft out of the parking spot between airplanes and turn 90-degrees before starting when you were learning to fly?
Five instructors, two flight schools and a flying club, and no, none of them ever suggested it. I wish they had. They did say to go easy on the throttle and be mindful of who and what is behind you, and take care not to blast other airplanes especially if there are open doors, canopies, etc. I learned better habits after I started hanging around EAA guys.
 
Biggest party foul I ever saw was a guy who took out a YE Event/$5 hamburger EAA event. He pirouetted his RV-4 right in front of the airport fence where the food and YE's were set-up, then taxied away for a YE flight at a high power setting.

All of the serving tables, all the food, and all of the YE paperwork went flying.

I learned from his mistake.
 
I have to admit I was slightly confused on departure this year, primarily because I left so early Wednesday morning. As I walked in the back entrance near the Orange parking lot past HBC around 6 am, I saw several RVs firing up with no helpers to be seen. In the 15 or so minutes it took me to load up in HBP, I had pulled my -12 out of its spot but still no walkers. I just assumed there were very few on duty at that hour so I just taxied to Alpha and over to 27. I did need to verify that I could cross that end of 18 without clearance (I could), but otherwise, I never saw a single ground handler. It wasn't a problem, just unexpected.
This is not surprising, as the 6AM crew is pretty sparse and they have to cover the entirety of homebuilt parking/ camping. We have a couple of early birds, a bunch more that come on at 7 (including me) and most are in place by 8. The primary purpose of the scooter folks is the safety of pedestrians, with a secondary purpose of guiding airplanes in and out of the area. Very few pedestrians around at 6AM, hence the space crew.

I advise anyone planning to depart at the opening bell to very carefully taxi out, head towards the runway, and call ground control if you are not certain- they won't yell at you at that early hour.
 
Sorry I didn't say I was in HBP not the camping.


My apologies -- I made the bad assumption you were in HBC. You have uncovered a seam in the process as there is nothing that I could find that discusses the process if you are in parking vs camping. Perhaps someone with EAA connections can bring that to the attention of the folks who manage the ground ops info on the AirVenture webpage as well as footstomping to the departure briefers that they need to emphasize the process to departing pilots. I know in my own case it wasn't mentioned during the brief.
 
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Did your flight instructor teach you to pull the aircraft out of the parking spot between airplanes and turn 90-degrees before starting when you were learning to fly?

Yes. Repeatedly. Its been thoroughly ingrained in me. A lesson that will never leave.

Would you want the aircraft parked next to you to pull out and blast your aircraft with the prop wash?

No. Definitely not. But it happens quite a bit even sometimes while you're standing right there next to your plane.


If not, why would you blast another aircraft with yours?
I wouldn't. I would go through great lengths to respect and protect someones else's property whether its an aircraft or an open hangar. Don't blast it with your prop please. It's bad manners. Your'e representing more than just you here.
 
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