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Why Argue? Call the FAA FSDO.

gbrasch

Well Known Member
In reading a recent post, I am reminded of all the conflicting advice that at times goes on here. What comes to mind is a simple solution when people have that occasional reg question, why not just go to the horses mouth and call your local FSDO? (No, I don't work for the FAA). In my nearly 40 years of being a pilot, I have called them on several occasions, and they are always willing to help. On a recent call, I had an obscure question that I could not find an answer to in the regs (another excellent source of info, imagine that!). It pertained to lighting at a private heliport. The FAA person did not know, but took my info, researched the question, and got back to me. Just my .02 cents.
 
Unfortunately, this totally depends on the FSDO. They seems to have their own personalities. Some are homebuilt friendly, other cannot be bothered. Some support GA, other see GA as a dying part of aviation and the quicker it dies the better. Less paper work for them.

A month and 1/2 ago we had a FSDO inspector ramp check one of our EAA members during a flyin breakfast. Put a chill over the whole airport. The attendance at the next fly in breakfast (this last Saturday) we had was 1/2 of what it was the previous month. Nice.
 
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good luck

Sounds like your FSDO is pretty friendly. I don't talk to those guys unless I have too. Take a poll sometime of how many have asked the FSDO a simple question that turned into a can of worms or a nightmare. I got a real taste of how they operate when I tried to get a simple waiver for a race last year. After submitting the paper work 3 times to 3 different inspectors and having them citing the FAR I wanted to waive as the reason for denying the waiver I lost any respect for that office. Follow the rules and ask someone else for help if you don't know what they are... ie EAA AOPA etc.

Good Luck,

Chris M
 
Maybe the answer then is to find one that is friendly (mine is Scottsdale), and not give them your name.......
 
Ask the FSDO? Good Luck.

I can reiterate that if you call the FSDO and talk to three different people, you will often get three different answers to the same question, often in conflict with the other answers.

I speak from experience.
 
If you can get anyone to even answer the phone.

Here in Atlanta, more often than not, you get " press 2 to speak with xxx - " "xxx is not in the office, press 0 to speak with an operator..." "The operator is not available, if you know your party's extention, enter it now" "the party you are seeking is not available - goodbye."

The FAA at "work." :mad:

It's like calling the IRS for help on taxes. No thanks...
 
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A couple of times I had cause to talk with the Oakland FSDO, both times they were great. In fact, after I had my homebuilt inspected by them, the manager for the department called me a few weeks later asking for feedback on how the process went and just to check if I was a happy customer.
 
I think people are missing the point of Glenn's original post. If you call an FSDO and you get an answer, at least you have something you can point to and say "this is what (name of person) said to me" regarding this.

If you post a question on, say, a bulletin board, what do you have? An answer from someone on a bulletin board.

So why not go to the source?

BTW, this same scenario is true, from what I understand, with the IRS. You can call their help number on a tax problem and you can get several different answers. But when the audit letter comes, I'd rather have a response from an IRS person as my reason for doing something, than some second-hand person who dabbles in tax policy on the side.
 
I think people are missing the point of Glenn's original post. If you call an FSDO and you get an answer, at least you have something you can point to and say "this is what (name of person) said to me" regarding this.

If you post a question on, say, a bulletin board, what do you have? An answer from someone on a bulletin board.

So why not go to the source?

BTW, this same scenario is true, from what I understand, with the IRS. You can call their help number on a tax problem and you can get several different answers. But when the audit letter comes, I'd rather have a response from an IRS person as my reason for doing something, than some second-hand person who dabbles in tax policy on the side.

Thanks Bob, I should have known this would lead to an argument! :confused:
 
Point of the follow-ups

I think people are missing the point of Glenn's original post.

So why not go to the source?


Yes- it would be great to get the story straight from the horse's -uh, mouth, but the theme in most of the first responses are that many find the FSDO completely un reachable and unhelpful.

If you want a good answer in lass than 30 days, a reputable poster on a good forum is better than a govt. official's voicemail - and as accurate in most cases.
 
I checked with the FSDO

The FSDO clearly said that it is the responsibility of the pilot-in-command to know when the thread they started is likely to start a long discussion.

Your failure to obtain a proper pre-thread briefing will be mentioned in the report.
 
A month and 1/2 ago we had a FSDO inspector ramp check one of our EAA members during a flyin breakfast. Put a chill over the whole airport. The attendance at the next fly in breakfast (this last Saturday) we had was 1/2 of what it was the previous month. Nice.

They are not supposed to do that just willy nilly. See FAA 8700.1.50 for the FAA inspectors regarding gatherings and events. Here's a quick quote from the FAA text:

"under no circumstances should these gatherings (balloon fests, etc.) be targeted for a blanket sweep inspection (e.g., ramp checks) of spectator airmen and aircraft."


There is much more text to it, but if this was arbitrary by an FAA ASI who normally will not work after hours or weekends anyway I would at least question it. If I were an officer for the local EAA chapter I'd probably have called the FSDO manager ASAP to inquire as to their reasoning for this and explain that they are having the opposite effect of ""earn the confidence of attending and participating airmen" (which is another quote in that order).

Anyway, my 2 cents as usual.

Cheers,
Stein
 
From the belly of the beast...

Having worked in a past life for the agency in question, let me add one thought.

Unfortunately, FSDOs aren't always standardized - even the big aviation alphabet organizations complain about that and they're right. So if you ask a question of the FSDO, do your best to get the response in writing - either in a letter or email. That way, if you act on their information and another inspector disagrees, you've got some paper to cover your backside.

My $0.02...use it for what it's worth.

Dave
 
Thanks Bob, I should have known this would lead to an argument! :confused:

One of my favorite New Yorker cartoons was the one where a guy is hunched over his computer, the clock shows something like 2 in the morning, and the obviously just-out-bed wife stands in the doorway of his home office. The caption. "Somebody's wrong on the Internet."
 
If you want a good answer in lass than 30 days, a reputable poster on a good forum is better than a govt. official's voicemail - and as accurate in most cases.

My sense is that people are suggesting don't bother with the FSDO because they'll be wrong, so just go right to the bulletin board.

Kind of like drilling a hole in a main spar and then asking a bulletin board whether it's OK, rather than calling the designer of the plane directly. :p
 
Having worked in a past life for the agency in question, let me add one thought.

Unfortunately, FSDOs aren't always standardized - even the big aviation alphabet organizations complain about that and they're right.

Bingo.

According to our local FSDO it will be another 2-3 years before sport pilot is approved. No, I'm NOT kidding, this is exactly what the Safety Inspector said. He also said he hates "ultra lights" and wished the FAA would ban them and homebuilts. "Inspecting kit planes is a waste of my time."

Since the FAA's "official" moto is "We're not happy, until you're unhappy." I fail to see the need to involve them at all, ever.
 
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Sorry Larry,

Since the FAA's "official" motto is "We're not happy, until you're unhappy." I fail to see the need to involve them at all, ever.

You're out of date on FAA's motto.
The new motto is "We've upped our standards, now up yours!"
This straight from my FSDO.
 
Even having the name and ID number of the FED you are dealing with will not save you. The coporation that I work for just purchased a EMB120 for a chicago run that we do with our company. We have been working with the Feds for over 5 months now trying to set up the operations manual, MEL, and maintenance operations manual.

We had the local FSDO actually come up and work with us for two entire days to let us know excatly what they were expecting in the manuals and what certian things to look for in our operations. Our first draft of our manual was actually almost directly a copy that a NASCAR team uses for their EMB120. We just changed things to reflect our name instead of the NASCAR team's and so on. They had been flying using these manuals for years and were approved by a different FSDO then ours but we were told that it would be ok. We submitted our manual and after two weeks with no response we called them to see how things were coming along only to find out that 2 of the 4 people handling our setup process had been transfered to different parts of the county and would no longer be around to approve the manuals, and they could not tell us who had been assigned to us to continue the process. Then to make things worse, the new people they assigned to us, one of them came back and said our manual was the worst example he had ever seen and sent it back and made us completly rewrite the entire manual costing us thousands of dollars in lost time and not to mention the aircraft can't fly until we are approved. Upon telling him that we used an already approved manual to set ours up, he made the comment to us he will be in contact with the other flight department to audit them and possibly fine them for not doing it correctly.

There is such a wide span between FSDO's it can be very frustrating. My local fsdo has started to cut back on approving field approvals. If it doesn't have an STC, they don't want to even deal with it anymore. Must cut into there high paying coffee breaks. I have had to jump around to three or four different FSDO's to get field approvals on things.

Still, call your local FSDO and get your answer to your question in writing and signed by the guy you talk to, or at the least get his name. But the point of my book I just wrote is that even if you have a name, it doesn't help you every time.

If at all cost I avoid talking to them as an A&P unless I absolutley can not find the answer to my question. When I do talk to them it feels as though I'm getting a mangnfying glass turned on me and I would rather just do my job then to have big brother standing over my shoulder.
 
I do know that they read these forums. I also know that they (at least at my FSDO) have a sense of humor. The "motto" quote that I gave came directly from my PMI.

I also know that most of them don't have time to keep up with amateur-built and light sport rules and they usually direct those questions to me.
 
I heard the motto from an unnamed person and my recollection is as follows:

"We're not happy until you're not happy."

It was humorous.
 
I heard the motto from an unnamed person and my recollection is as follows:

"We're not happy until you're not happy."

It was humorous.

I've heard this from our local FSDO! SEVERAL of them as a matter of fact.

I'm sure they the FSDO personel were making a joke. Funny thing about humor though, most good jokes contain a thread of truth. ;)
 
Not that it matters, but you guys DO KNOW that the FAA/NTSB reads VAF?

]

One would hope that after they read this thread they would sit back and say; '' Wow, maybe we should try to help GA, homebuilders, kit planes, ultralights, and LSA, we sure have a bad reputation." Never happen, this would not increase their power. In their minds it would be giving up power. The only thing that keeps them in check is EAA / AOPA oversite, support them all you can.
 
Personally, I have had great chats/talks with inspectors at the Des Moines FSDO.. one inspector in particular, but.. always good help from there.

YMMV.
 
I doubt it!!

Not that it matters, but you guys DO KNOW that the FAA/NTSB reads VAF?

If you don't believe it, just look at the .doc files for the RV-10 crash (lloyd).

Flame on.

http://www.ntsb.gov/Dockets/Aviation/NYC08FA023/

They read it for the purposes of the investigation. Not as a matter of routine. They were pointed to the VAF by some of the Principals in the investigation to show the mindset of the owner/builder/pilot.

It would be wishful thinking that they would read VAF daily. Only those who are RVer's are likely to log on.
 
Not that it matters, but you guys DO KNOW that the FAA/NTSB reads VAF?

Good!

Anybody remember the bumper sticker "Abolish the FAA"? I saw it on my dad's car as a young child, and all my experience with them since has only reinforced the sentiment.
 
Hello guy’s, I am new to your forum and as one who knows the inside and outs of the FSDO’s and as one who certifies experimental aircraft I can assure it does matter who you talk to at a FSDO. Inspectors at the FSDO’s are no different than any other run business it all depends on the person and their experience level.

Just so not to miss lead anyone I am a FSDO Inspector (maintenance) and have owned my own FBO so I know both sides of the fence so to speak. I work a lot with homebuilders and have certificated over 100 aircraft in Northern California.

I also run my own web site at: http://www.stacheair.com where I have lots of FREE information for homebuilders and LSA owners. I don’t speak for the whole country, but if you call my office and speak to me you will be treated with respect and I will give the straight answers or find them for you.

Just one man’s opinion.
 
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Thanks Stache

I have had a very good experience with Oakland FSDO, although it was long ago, when I think they were called GADO's (or something like).

I do think it would be an important improvement for the FAA to try to more standardize the policies, approach and attitude, accessibility, and service of the FSDO's. After all, there are not many interface points between the Executive Branch and the public - so those interfaces should be as service-oriented as they can be. (We are, after all, called 'civil service' employees;)) The San Jose FSDO has become an impenetrable fortress - if you call and make an appointment ( except that they don't answer the phone) you can arrange for someone to come out and talk with you on the sidewalk. Really? Not what I want from my 'open' government.

If you want to know a really funny ( and a thread of truth) saying about the FAA: "They make the IRS seem friendly, and the CIA seem competent." Quoted from an airline pilot I know. It seems to me that the FAA could make a lot of progress to change public perception by making the FSDO's more uniformly service-oriented. Seriously, the skies would be safer and more efficient if there was always a spirit of cooperation and collaboration in operating the national airspace system. It is always delightfully surprising and encouraging when I do find that spirit, in controllers, briefers, FSDO inspectors.
 
A question for you.

. I work a lot with homebuilders and have certificated over 100 aircraft in Northern California.

What is your normal travel radius???

Probably a lot of folks here who might be interested in your services.

As I said earlier, welcome :D
 
Since 911 all FSDO’s require the public to make an appointment to before coming to the office. In our office we have a local policy if you walk in you will be helped without an appointment we are the exception to the rule. In the Oakland FSDO our policy is to have an Airworthiness and Operations inspector on duty 5-days a week to serve the public.

A lot of FAA people have forgotten the mission of the FAA to promote safety and that means serve the public since we are public servants and it’s your tax dollars that pay us. I have taken it one step further offering assistance through my personal web site with a hyper link to my home e-mail to work off line.

I have help builders all over the country and with the step-by-step checklist on my site it answers a lot of the questions. In the Oakland district as others we are faced with using DARs to help perform certifications because of manpower issues (funding).

I am currently working on a certification with a RV-12 E-LSA the first in the country. I have certified several other RVs and performed a couple of fatal accidents involving RVs. I must admit I am a fan of the RV aircraft being I have an engineering background.

If I can be of assistance to any builder you can reach me through my personal web site. You can find me at http://www.stacheair.com

Thanks for your support.

Simper Fi
 
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So Far............

all my dealings with the Houston FSDO have been very good. Their personnel have been very helpful and really seem intent on getting things correct. Just my observation.
 
Denny, thanks for contributing.

<<Since 911 all FSDO?s require the public to make an appointment to before coming to the office. >>

That we know.....but why?
 
A lot of FAA people have forgotten the mission of the FAA to promote safety and that means serve the public since we are public servants and it?s your tax dollars that pay us.

Simper Fi

Now there is an understatement.

It's Semper Fi.

:cool:
 
Just a little about me, as mentioned I am a FAA maintenance inspector and cover Northern California from HWY 92 North to the Oregon border. My FAA district splits with Sacramento FSDO by county lines along I-5 or close to it. We also split with San Jose FSDO along HWY 92; Oakland takes everything North such as OAK, SFO, Petaluma, Santa Rosa, Crescent City, Smith Ranch and everything in between.

I am a former Marine and dam proud of it I believe in God, Country and Corp. I support experimental aircraft aviation and LSA?s. I am user friendly and have taught the composite class at Oshkosh. Just like you guy's I get up every morning and thank God for aircraft owners.

?Since 911 all FSDO?s require the public to make an appointment before coming to the office?, because of stupid people. It also helps organize the workload for example some of the FAA inspectors are avionic only and cannot do aircraft certifications so we schedule a maintenance guy like myself to be in the office. Most avionic inspectors do not hold an A&P certificate so what they can do is limited. Avionic inspectors cannot certify experimental or LSA aircraft nor do Operations inspectors. In our office we have had some guy walk in with a handgun wanting a pound of flesh so now we have a bullet proof glass wall instead of a counter were we used to talk face to face. That?s life in Oakland as other offices.

I teach an A&P/IA renewal course that is open to all pilots and mechanics and is approved for the WINGS program. The class is FREE and takes place at the Oakland FSDO, the next class is Oct. 2009. This is a good time to meet the office staff and put a face with a name.

I have worked with some RV builders in Oklahoma and Florida when I am training out there and I also work with the local guys in the district. Having a structural background has helped many builders as I have beat and smashed many thousands of rivets over the years. I have learned many tricks of the trade and passed them on.

Enough tooting my horn. If you have a question or just need to clarify something I do have a huge reference library at home and willing to assist if I can.

Knowing your local inspector can help if you want or need aircraft records. All inspectors have access to all the aircraft records in Oklahoma City at their finger tips. So if you have a question you can pick up the phone and ask an inspector to pull up the aircraft by N-number. They can also tell you if the aircraft has been involved in an incident or accident.

If you want to contact me at the Oakland FSDO telephone (510) 748-0122 ext. 246 Monday ? Thursday, I start at 5:30 AM to 4:00 PM and its best to telephone me early. I do return all telephone calls I receive.
 
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