I need to be able to block off my cooler for winter flying. Here in New York it is cold durring the winter. Last year I completely blocked the cooler with a plate and got acceptable temps. Like others have said it's a pain when you get a warm day and your blocked off. I would order up the Vans shutter but the only problem I have is it looks like from the pictures that it doesn't close off completely. Can someone who has one let me know if it completely closes or if it still lets some air through when closed.
Van's Air Force
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Vans Oil Cooler Shutter Again
- Thread starter RFazio
- Start date
IowaRV9Dreamer
Well Known Member
butterfly valve for oil cooler.
Somewhere online (I thought at Spruce) I saw a cable actuated butterfly valve that goes in the SCAT tube that leads to the oil cooler. It looked simple and elegant. Has anybody seen this? I can't find it again...
Somewhere online (I thought at Spruce) I saw a cable actuated butterfly valve that goes in the SCAT tube that leads to the oil cooler. It looked simple and elegant. Has anybody seen this? I can't find it again...
Aft side...
Hi.
It's cold here in Norway too, so I installed the Vans shutter for the same reason.
I was unable however, to innstall it in FRONT of the shutter, so I had to install it on the AFT side. The reason was the shuttercable, the engine mounts and the oilcooler-hoses.
The result was NOT good, since the air leaked out through all the small openings around the ribs of the cooler.
The result was low oiltemps last winter.
Then I sealed all the small openings around both the shutter and the cooler with high temp RTV, and the result was MUCH better!
Now I have acceptable temps during summer, spring and fall, but I still have to block off 1/3 of the front face of the cooler with alu-tape during winter.
During periods of really cold weather (temps down to -20* Celcius), I've to block off 2/3 of the cooler.
I highly recommend the shutter, but it schould definetely be placed according to Vans drawings: in front of the shutter, if you can.
I've a Superior IO-360 and I think it's slightly differnet than a Lyc in the oilcoooler area.
Or maybe it was my FF-setup who didn't allow room for the shuttercable to be on the fwd side of the cooler.
Hi.
It's cold here in Norway too, so I installed the Vans shutter for the same reason.
I was unable however, to innstall it in FRONT of the shutter, so I had to install it on the AFT side. The reason was the shuttercable, the engine mounts and the oilcooler-hoses.
The result was NOT good, since the air leaked out through all the small openings around the ribs of the cooler.
The result was low oiltemps last winter.
Then I sealed all the small openings around both the shutter and the cooler with high temp RTV, and the result was MUCH better!
Now I have acceptable temps during summer, spring and fall, but I still have to block off 1/3 of the front face of the cooler with alu-tape during winter.
During periods of really cold weather (temps down to -20* Celcius), I've to block off 2/3 of the cooler.
I highly recommend the shutter, but it schould definetely be placed according to Vans drawings: in front of the shutter, if you can.
I've a Superior IO-360 and I think it's slightly differnet than a Lyc in the oilcoooler area.
Or maybe it was my FF-setup who didn't allow room for the shuttercable to be on the fwd side of the cooler.
L.Adamson
Well Known Member
Doesn't work so well
A friend of mine had designed a shutter design that also fit aft of the cooler. It would allow better "summer" air flow than the Van's design. But as the shutters open, it required more space (depth). And that space was available when mounted on the backside.
However, Scott from Van's mentioned in a prior thread, that mounting the shutters on the back, just wasn't doing the job. They had experimented with it too. So my friend and I have "junked" the idea of mounting movable vanes on the backside. And Olav has just reinforced the point. He say's that in cold weather conditions, that he still has to block off 2/3rds of the front to be effective.
Therefor, I'm either going to have to go with the "thin" Van's shutter on the front of the cooler, or always remove the cowl to place foil tape in front of the cooler. I'd sure prefer a cockpit controlled method! In a few hours, I can easily fly from conditions that are below freezing, to temps in the high 60's or 70's. I do this quite often.
L.Adamson --- RV6A
A friend of mine had designed a shutter design that also fit aft of the cooler. It would allow better "summer" air flow than the Van's design. But as the shutters open, it required more space (depth). And that space was available when mounted on the backside.
However, Scott from Van's mentioned in a prior thread, that mounting the shutters on the back, just wasn't doing the job. They had experimented with it too. So my friend and I have "junked" the idea of mounting movable vanes on the backside. And Olav has just reinforced the point. He say's that in cold weather conditions, that he still has to block off 2/3rds of the front to be effective.
Therefor, I'm either going to have to go with the "thin" Van's shutter on the front of the cooler, or always remove the cowl to place foil tape in front of the cooler. I'd sure prefer a cockpit controlled method! In a few hours, I can easily fly from conditions that are below freezing, to temps in the high 60's or 70's. I do this quite often.
L.Adamson --- RV6A
Kevin Horton's oil cooler sliding door
here's Kevin Horton's oil cooler sliding door:
(I hope he doesn't mind I posting the links)
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8/article.php?story=20021207205421885&query=oil+cooler
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8/article.php?story=20050501205640560&query=cooler
here's Kevin Horton's oil cooler sliding door:
(I hope he doesn't mind I posting the links)
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8/article.php?story=20021207205421885&query=oil+cooler
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8/article.php?story=20050501205640560&query=cooler
D-Dubya
Well Known Member
Maybe this
Iowa Dave, here's a version of a butterfly valve that I saw out there. Don't know if it's good, bad, or indifferent...but it looks like what you were referencing:
http://www.nonstopaviation.com/rv10-controller-cooler-p-14591.html
Iowa Dave, here's a version of a butterfly valve that I saw out there. Don't know if it's good, bad, or indifferent...but it looks like what you were referencing:
http://www.nonstopaviation.com/rv10-controller-cooler-p-14591.html
N941WR
Legacy Member
One thing I do recommend to builders is to put plate nuts under the lip of the baffles, in front of cylinders #1 & #2. That way you can make different shields to prevent some of the cold air from entering the cylinders and with the platenuts in place, those shields are easy to change out.
terrykohler
Well Known Member
Control of Shutter
Therefor, I'm either going to have to go with the "thin" Van's shutter on the front of the cooler, or always remove the cowl to place foil tape in front of the cooler. I'd sure prefer a cockpit controlled method! In a few hours, I can easily fly from conditions that are below freezing, to temps in the high 60's or 70's. I do this quite often.
L.Adamson --- RV6A
Larry:
While I'm currently using the tape method, the Van's shutter is a better option for me, especially since I fly from Michigan to Florida 2-3 times each winter. My thought, however, is to keep the bowen cable and control inside the cowl, with the control in proximity to the oil filler door (adel clamp to the motor mount). That way, there's one less hole in the firewall, and any needed adjustment for cooling can be done when I stop for fuel and will not require removal of the upper cowl.
Terry, CFI
RV-9A N323TP
Therefor, I'm either going to have to go with the "thin" Van's shutter on the front of the cooler, or always remove the cowl to place foil tape in front of the cooler. I'd sure prefer a cockpit controlled method! In a few hours, I can easily fly from conditions that are below freezing, to temps in the high 60's or 70's. I do this quite often.
L.Adamson --- RV6A
Larry:
While I'm currently using the tape method, the Van's shutter is a better option for me, especially since I fly from Michigan to Florida 2-3 times each winter. My thought, however, is to keep the bowen cable and control inside the cowl, with the control in proximity to the oil filler door (adel clamp to the motor mount). That way, there's one less hole in the firewall, and any needed adjustment for cooling can be done when I stop for fuel and will not require removal of the upper cowl.
Terry, CFI
RV-9A N323TP
L.Adamson
Well Known Member
In my case, it's about 2 hrs. from below freezing, to temps in the mid 60's to the 70's. Northern Utah to Arizona, with no fuel stop in between. But if there was a stop, the cable by the oil door would be a good idea.
I'm just hoping, that with the "cut out" surface restrictions on the Van's cooler.....is that it won't effect summer cooling temps, as I'm flying in areas that can exceed 100 F. But then of course, much of the cooler area is filled with oil passages that account and subtract from much of it's free flow area.
L.Adamson --- RV6A
Dayton Murdock
Well Known Member
Ball Valve
Hi All
At LOE I had a long conversation with Larry Vetterman about oil coolers and oil temp on my RV-4. For the 2 years that I have flying my -4 I have used tape over the cooling fins of the cooler to adjust the oil temp. In the winter I have a quarter size hole in the tape covering the cooler. Larry has used a ball valve on the cooler input line at the engine for years. It is connected to a veneer control inside the cockpit. We control throttle, mixture and RPMs why not oil temp by limiting the flow thru the cooler?
Hi All
At LOE I had a long conversation with Larry Vetterman about oil coolers and oil temp on my RV-4. For the 2 years that I have flying my -4 I have used tape over the cooling fins of the cooler to adjust the oil temp. In the winter I have a quarter size hole in the tape covering the cooler. Larry has used a ball valve on the cooler input line at the engine for years. It is connected to a veneer control inside the cockpit. We control throttle, mixture and RPMs why not oil temp by limiting the flow thru the cooler?
JonJay
Well Known Member
Mine works great on the aft side.
It seems that oil temps vary a lot between identicaly outfitted ships. Some run hot, some run cold, just view the dozens of posts to this effect. For my particular situation, running cold, the shutter on the aft side put me right where I needed to be for the climate I normally fly in. Do not assume that Van's standard Oil Cooler will not keep the oil cool or that the Shutter on the Aft side wont work.
Your results may, and probably will, vary!
It seems that oil temps vary a lot between identicaly outfitted ships. Some run hot, some run cold, just view the dozens of posts to this effect. For my particular situation, running cold, the shutter on the aft side put me right where I needed to be for the climate I normally fly in. Do not assume that Van's standard Oil Cooler will not keep the oil cool or that the Shutter on the Aft side wont work.
Your results may, and probably will, vary!
Dan Blumel
Active Member
If your engine has a vernatherm valve (works like thermostat in auto engine cooling system), you don't need to close off your oil cooler airflow.
The Vernatherm if working properly (as designed) stops oil flow to the oil cooler unless the temps get high enough. I am not sure which engines have them and which do not. My IO360 C1D6 angle valve Lycoming does have a Vernatherm valve.
This also helps your engine warm up more quickly until the flow to the oil cooler is allowed by the Vernatherm. The thermostat in your water cooled car engine does the same thing.
The Vernatherm if working properly (as designed) stops oil flow to the oil cooler unless the temps get high enough. I am not sure which engines have them and which do not. My IO360 C1D6 angle valve Lycoming does have a Vernatherm valve.
This also helps your engine warm up more quickly until the flow to the oil cooler is allowed by the Vernatherm. The thermostat in your water cooled car engine does the same thing.
IowaRV9Dreamer
Well Known Member
avery tool oil cooler air valve
http://www.averytools.com/pc-1069-109-3-air-controller-for-oil-cooler.aspx
Does anyone have any experience with these vs. the shutter?
THANKS! That jogged my memory and now I remember that Avery Tools sells both a 3" and 4" version of this valve. They call the 4" version the "RV10 Air Controller", but they sell a 3" version too that might (?) work for the 2 place RVs:
http://www.averytools.com/pc-1069-109-3-air-controller-for-oil-cooler.aspx
Does anyone have any experience with these vs. the shutter?
Noah
Well Known Member
I suspect that the majority of people who are installing these oil cooler airflow blocks also have vernatherm valves. Which leads to the question, why install one if you have a vernatherm?
Does the vernatherm typically not work properly?
Or does the vernatherm always allow some flow in order to prevent oil from congealing in the oil cooler? As a result there is more cooling than desired?
I have thought about installing one of these but I just can't understand the need given the Vernatherm - what am I missing?
I just made a restrictor that mounts to the back of my cooler and I can open/close it from the cockpit. It is quit different then what Vans sells. When it is open, it is almost zero restriction which I wanted for summer times as I live in Northern CA. Vans device seems to restrict a fair amount in the open position. Mine operates like a vertical blind. The testing that I have done so far, it seems my temp comes up very quick at run up (I usually wait till it is 100F) before take off and it seems it reduces the temp by 20F (might not be enough for the colder area) If I open it during the flight my temp goes down about 20 degree.
If any body is interested, let me know and I can send pix of it via e-mail as I don't know how to add pix here.
Regards
Mehrdad
RV7A - IO360M1B
If any body is interested, let me know and I can send pix of it via e-mail as I don't know how to add pix here.
Regards
Mehrdad
RV7A - IO360M1B
What Oil Temperature is Best?
Unless it is over 90 degrees F, my oil runs too cool without blocking off the oil cooler. I intend to mount some sort of a shutter soon.
I am of the opinion that you should get the oil over the boiling point of water to prevent corrosion, so I aim for 215 F.
The oil temperature number is germane to this discussion.
Unless it is over 90 degrees F, my oil runs too cool without blocking off the oil cooler. I intend to mount some sort of a shutter soon.
I am of the opinion that you should get the oil over the boiling point of water to prevent corrosion, so I aim for 215 F.
The oil temperature number is germane to this discussion.
L.Adamson
Well Known Member
There have been a few discussions about temps & evaporation in threads here and elsewhere. Since moisture vapor doesn't need to hit the boiling point to evaporate, I prefer temps less than 210 to 215F. I feel comfortable with 180-190, but am open to all suggestions.
edit: I just probably read 100+ replies between here & the Matronics forums. Some Matronics were from the mid 90's era.
One reply stated that Lycoming would be happy with temps around 200 F. all day long, but not less than 180 F. But on the other hand, the boiling point does drop with altitude. Regardless, there is a lot of interesting reading, and as usual, not full agreement on the subject.
L.Adamson --- RV6A
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You need to account for the temp difference between the oil in the cooler and in the sump. If your oil temp is 210-215 which is right after the oil cooler, then in the sump is some thing in the neighborhood of 250-265. Lycoming tech says any were from 160-180 is optimum since the temp sensor is right after the oil cooler.
Mehrdad
RV7A - IO360M1B
Mehrdad
RV7A - IO360M1B
lostpilot28
Well Known Member
I've got around 50 hours on my 0-360 and have never had the temps above 185. Only a couple occasions I've had it above 170!
I've been trying various amounts of adhesive-backed aluminum to block the oil cooler and since the weather got cold I have the entire thing covered. I was about to pull my plenum and put the aluminum on the front of the cooler when this thread popped up (so good timing!)...I figured swapping the tape is going to be a real pain because of the plenum, so I just ordered the Van's shutter. I hope it works!
Aside from blocking the airflow to the oil cooler, is there anything else that would make the oil too cold? All my CHTs and EGTs seem to be normal.
I've been trying various amounts of adhesive-backed aluminum to block the oil cooler and since the weather got cold I have the entire thing covered. I was about to pull my plenum and put the aluminum on the front of the cooler when this thread popped up (so good timing!)...I figured swapping the tape is going to be a real pain because of the plenum, so I just ordered the Van's shutter. I hope it works!
Aside from blocking the airflow to the oil cooler, is there anything else that would make the oil too cold? All my CHTs and EGTs seem to be normal.
L.Adamson
Well Known Member
I've got around 50 hours on my 0-360 and have never had the temps above 185. Only a couple occasions I've had it above 170!
I've been trying various amounts of adhesive-backed aluminum to block the oil cooler and since the weather got cold I have the entire thing covered. I was about to pull my plenum and put the aluminum on the front of the cooler when this thread popped up (so good timing!)...I figured swapping the tape is going to be a real pain because of the plenum, so I just ordered the Van's shutter. I hope it works!
Aside from blocking the airflow to the oil cooler, is there anything else that would make the oil too cold? All my CHTs and EGTs seem to be normal.
You're results are about the same as many others around here. I just went through a bunch of travel pics, and see temps around that 170 mark. I don't think it's ever been past 195, and that was once........that I remember. Going to go for the Van's shutter too.
On the other hand, many of those trips around around Idaho (Twin Falls). Could be the air.....there..
L.Adamson ---- RV6A
Dean Pichon
Well Known Member
I finally installed Van's oil cooler shutter in my -4
After 8 years of blocking the aft face of the oil cooler each winter in New England. I finally installed the shutter. It works great. I seem to be able to tune whatever temp I desire using the cockpit control. Previously, with the cooler blocked with a plate on the exit side, I had trouble getting oil temps above 150F on cold days. With the shutter, summer or winter, the temps are good.
The only issue I have had to date is that in a tightly cowled -4, there is insufficient clearance for the bellcrank that operates the shutter. I had to trim it down and drill a new hole.
As for Vernatherm valves, I swapped out a number of them in my Citabria before I learned thay don't prevent flow thru the oil cooler; they merely slow the flow.
After 8 years of blocking the aft face of the oil cooler each winter in New England. I finally installed the shutter. It works great. I seem to be able to tune whatever temp I desire using the cockpit control. Previously, with the cooler blocked with a plate on the exit side, I had trouble getting oil temps above 150F on cold days. With the shutter, summer or winter, the temps are good.
The only issue I have had to date is that in a tightly cowled -4, there is insufficient clearance for the bellcrank that operates the shutter. I had to trim it down and drill a new hole.
As for Vernatherm valves, I swapped out a number of them in my Citabria before I learned thay don't prevent flow thru the oil cooler; they merely slow the flow.
N941WR
Legacy Member
Exactly what the Lycoming rep told us when he made a Chapter visit.
And the comments about the vernatherm are correct, they do not stop the oil flow, only restrict it.
lostpilot28
Well Known Member
You're results are about the same as many others around here. I just went through a bunch of travel pics, and see temps around that 170 mark. I don't think it's ever been past 195, and that was once........that I remember. Going to go for the Van's shutter too.
On the other hand, many of those trips around around Idaho (Twin Falls). Could be the air.....there..
L.Adamson ---- RV6A
Hey Larry, I thought you already had the shutter. I was a bit surprised by the price of it ($85 + shipping), but I suppose that's not too much considering the flexibility it provides. I thought taking the cowl off to put aluminum foil on the back of the oil cooler was bad enough, let alone removing the plenum. This thread is what convinced me to buy the shutter to block the front. I hope it works! I had a few drops of water on my oil dipstick the other day.
Moisture ...
Hi again.
Maybe alittle off topic, but it came to mind when I was reading about getting rid of moisture in the oil:
A few minutes before landing, I close the shutter to get the oil temp up around 200*.
After landing, I remove the dipstick and let the oilcoller door stay open for the first 10-15 minutes after shutdown to get rid of the vater vapour in the oil.
When I remove the stick, I can easily see the vapours going up into the air.
I learned this trick here on the forum, and it seems to work well, since I never see any water-droplets on the dipstick.
Hi again.
Maybe alittle off topic, but it came to mind when I was reading about getting rid of moisture in the oil:
A few minutes before landing, I close the shutter to get the oil temp up around 200*.
After landing, I remove the dipstick and let the oilcoller door stay open for the first 10-15 minutes after shutdown to get rid of the vater vapour in the oil.
When I remove the stick, I can easily see the vapours going up into the air.
I learned this trick here on the forum, and it seems to work well, since I never see any water-droplets on the dipstick.
lostpilot28
Well Known Member
Doh!
OK, call me stoopid.
After installing my oil cooler shutter a couple weeks ago I still didn't have a significant rise in oil temps...150 F was about the highest. I was considering pulling the sender and testing it before doing anything else, when it dawned on me that my Voyager EFIS lets you choose what type of sender you have and even configure a "programmable" one. I could've sworn I had this setup right and didn't have to mess with it!
OK, so after checking out my settings, I noted that I did NOT have the Westach sender option selected. Changed it and went flying - BINGO! Oil temps were solidly around 205 F with the oil cooler shutter completely closed. I got it really warmed up and did some slow climbing and got it up to 225 F at one point. Glad to see that I've got one less squwak to worry about!
OK, call me stoopid.
After installing my oil cooler shutter a couple weeks ago I still didn't have a significant rise in oil temps...150 F was about the highest. I was considering pulling the sender and testing it before doing anything else, when it dawned on me that my Voyager EFIS lets you choose what type of sender you have and even configure a "programmable" one. I could've sworn I had this setup right and didn't have to mess with it!
OK, so after checking out my settings, I noted that I did NOT have the Westach sender option selected. Changed it and went flying - BINGO! Oil temps were solidly around 205 F with the oil cooler shutter completely closed. I got it really warmed up and did some slow climbing and got it up to 225 F at one point. Glad to see that I've got one less squwak to worry about!
L.Adamson
Well Known Member
OK, call me stoopid.
After installing my oil cooler shutter a couple weeks ago I still didn't have a significant rise in oil temps...150 F was about the highest. I was considering pulling the sender and testing it before doing anything else, when it dawned on me that my Voyager EFIS lets you choose what type of sender you have and even configure a "programmable" one. I could've sworn I had this setup right and didn't have to mess with it!
OK, so after checking out my settings, I noted that I did NOT have the Westach sender option selected. Changed it and went flying - BINGO! Oil temps were solidly around 205 F with the oil cooler shutter completely closed. I got it really warmed up and did some slow climbing and got it up to 225 F at one point. Glad to see that I've got one less squwak to worry about!
I suppose it was a different thread I posted on the other day, but my cooler shutter is a real success too. I've got the cable running to the lower panel, which allows in flight adjustments.
L.Adamson --- RV6A
David-aviator
Well Known Member
Dan,
The vernatherm does not funtion like a thermostat in an automobile.
The device is installed at a Y junction in the oil plumbing system. When the engine is cold, oil can flow to the cooler or back into the engine. The flow route is a matter of physics as to which route has the least resistance. The port to the cooler is never closed.
When oil temperature gets up to about 190F, the vernatherm closes the port to the engine. Oil only flows to the cooler when this happens.
This why many certified Lycoming installations have a winterization kit for the cooler. Since the port to the cooler is never closed, the only way shut the cooler down is by restricting airflow across it. The system is designed as such to prevent a malfunctioning vernatherm from creating a situation where no oil could flow to the cooler.
weekendflyboy
Active Member
Air Controller for Oil Cooler
Guys just found your post about the oil cooler air controllers.
I'm the guy who makes the Air controllers in the 4" and 3" version.
Thought I would post a link to some more pictures so you could get a better look at it.
http://picasaweb.google.com/ericrv6/AirController02?authkey=Gv1sRgCObTiZWotfituQE&feat=directlink
I hope to have these pictures on the website along with some customer comments on how well they all like the air controller very soon.
Thanks,
Guys just found your post about the oil cooler air controllers.
I'm the guy who makes the Air controllers in the 4" and 3" version.
Thought I would post a link to some more pictures so you could get a better look at it.
http://picasaweb.google.com/ericrv6/AirController02?authkey=Gv1sRgCObTiZWotfituQE&feat=directlink
I hope to have these pictures on the website along with some customer comments on how well they all like the air controller very soon.
Thanks,
N8RV
Well Known Member
Well, after a 3-week hiatus, I finally got to fly a little today. I have the Van's shutter installed on the back of the oil cooler, and have it shut completely. That gave me 180-degree oil the last time I flew (ambient temp down low was in the 50s).
Today, taking a cue from this thread, I put a piece of aluminum tape over about 1/4 of the FRONT of the oil cooler. The oil temp never got above 150 degrees! Of course, at 6500' the OAT was 12 degrees ...
I think I'll pull the cowling and slap on another piece of tape and keep doing so till the temps again climb to the 180-degree range. Might have to consider making some kind of shutter for the front of the oil cooler that's adjustable from the cockpit.
Today, taking a cue from this thread, I put a piece of aluminum tape over about 1/4 of the FRONT of the oil cooler. The oil temp never got above 150 degrees! Of course, at 6500' the OAT was 12 degrees ...
I think I'll pull the cowling and slap on another piece of tape and keep doing so till the temps again climb to the 180-degree range. Might have to consider making some kind of shutter for the front of the oil cooler that's adjustable from the cockpit.
L.Adamson
Well Known Member
This is a section of a reply to another thread that I wrote last week after installing the Van's shutter in front of the oil cooler between the #4 rear baffle and cooler. Put a few washers in between, & I had to get bolts that were 1/4" longer than the previous.
___________
I have a cheap and light Autozone cable that goes to the panel for in cockpit operation. With todays flights at the 8500 - 10500 msl. level, and outside temperatures between 25 & 31F -------- I was able to maintain oil temps between 185 & 195 in cruise, depending on power settings. In a sustained climb with shutter fullly closed, the temp went up to 220, but I had the option of dropping it from the cockpit.
__________
L.Adamson --- RV6A
lostpilot28
Well Known Member
I got lucky...my shutter fit between the #4 cylinder baffling and the oil cooler with no modifications. I did note that if I cranked the bolts down too tight that the shutter was much harder to open/close. So I loosened them a bit...I may be at the bottom end of the torque range, so I'll keep an eye on it to make sure it's solid.
David-aviator
Well Known Member
I ordered this unit today.
With the Van's shutter full closed, I saw a max of 150F oil temp today. OAT was about 35F.
lostpilot28
Well Known Member
Hi David,
That's about what the OAT was when I got it up to 225 F. I'm really curious about all of these engines with cold oil temps. I would expect some variation, but nothing on the order of 70+ degrees. Now that I know my EFIS config was setup wrong, it makes me think there could be others with the same type of issue. Are you using an EFIS or EIS that requires configuration or calibration?
David-aviator
Well Known Member
I am using EIS 4000. The oil temperature feature is pre-calibrated in the unit, there are no scaling numbers for it. The only thing that would make it not work properly is having the wrong sensor, they make two and they are quite different in resistance. I've checked the probe in hot water and it read within one degree of the digital cooking thermometer in the hot water, so the system is reporting accurate temperatures from the oil filter area where the sensor is installed.
The problem I have is the cooler on the firewall ala the RV-10 and much air is leaking around the Vans shutter. I got the oil temp up to 187 one time after a take off with a heat soaked engine and climb to 7500' with the shutter closed. I believe if my shutter were installed at the baffle to block air flow before the cooler as yours is, it would work better. As it is, it is installed at the air flow exit of the cooler and that's where I can't get it to seal adequately. I could move it but I think it will be easier to install that shut off valve I ordered. It will close off 100% of air flow.
L.Adamson
Well Known Member
The same happened to me on the first install. Then I found that the oil cooler fins were actually pressing against the shutter assembly. The cooler flange just doesn't leave a gap. With washers, which actually allow some better airflow, the assembly once again moves easily. It had to, because my light weight skimmpy cable wouldn't push it open..... otherwise.
L.Adamson --- RV6A
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L.Adamson
Well Known Member
As it turns out, these shutters/ dampers have to be installed "before" the cooler to get acceptable results. Otherwise there is still to much heat transfer even though -- no or little air is moving through the cooler.
L.Adamson --- RV6A
N8RV
Well Known Member
Yeah, I think that's my next project -- remove the shutter and re-install it in front of the oil cooler. Nice to know that I'm not the only one with temp problems ...
N8RV
Well Known Member
I removed the oil cooler and shutter, then moved the shutter to the front of the cooler. Like others said, cranking down the bolts only causes the shutter to bind, so I had to back off the bolts a bit.
The biggest problem I've found so far is that the cables that I've used are too freakin' flimsy to operate the shutter from the cockpit. All of them have wrapped-wire housings that flex way too much and won't allow movement of the shutter reliably.
I ended up mounting the control just inside the oil access door temporarily and running the cable housing through a piece of aluminum tubing. Worked great.
So, the plan is to either buy a new lightweight cable and run it through tubing all the way to the shutter or find a heavier-weight control cable. It's turning into a bigger engineering issue than I had expected!
BTW, I have not flown it since moving the shutter, so I have no idea if it will even work. I'll report back when the weather cooperates enough to fly ...
The biggest problem I've found so far is that the cables that I've used are too freakin' flimsy to operate the shutter from the cockpit. All of them have wrapped-wire housings that flex way too much and won't allow movement of the shutter reliably.
I ended up mounting the control just inside the oil access door temporarily and running the cable housing through a piece of aluminum tubing. Worked great.
So, the plan is to either buy a new lightweight cable and run it through tubing all the way to the shutter or find a heavier-weight control cable. It's turning into a bigger engineering issue than I had expected!
BTW, I have not flown it since moving the shutter, so I have no idea if it will even work. I'll report back when the weather cooperates enough to fly ...
L.Adamson
Well Known Member
You need the spacing washers
A few items here...., as I went through the exact same problems.
Put a washer or two between the shutter & oil cooler. This will totally free up the shutter. I used a standard thickness washer on each side of the shutter, and filled in the gaps with a weather seal that I tested with a hot heat gun. The flange on the oil cooler does not have enough clearance to prevent the fins from pressing against the shutter, without a washer to space it. With the washer, you can fully torque the bolt to specs. I did have to get some new bolts that were a quarter inch longer.
My cable is also the cheapest light weight that Autozone had. Around $7.00
At first, it would only bind. With the washers installed, the cable now freely works. It runs to the panel on the bottom left side, with a couple of plastic wire wraps to support it, until I have the urge to dive under the panel. It's also supported near the shutter, and a swivel fitting through the firewall. I too, spent several additional days on this project. The cooler & shutter came off quite a few times.
L.Adamson --- RV6A
A few items here...., as I went through the exact same problems.
Put a washer or two between the shutter & oil cooler. This will totally free up the shutter. I used a standard thickness washer on each side of the shutter, and filled in the gaps with a weather seal that I tested with a hot heat gun. The flange on the oil cooler does not have enough clearance to prevent the fins from pressing against the shutter, without a washer to space it. With the washer, you can fully torque the bolt to specs. I did have to get some new bolts that were a quarter inch longer.
My cable is also the cheapest light weight that Autozone had. Around $7.00
At first, it would only bind. With the washers installed, the cable now freely works. It runs to the panel on the bottom left side, with a couple of plastic wire wraps to support it, until I have the urge to dive under the panel. It's also supported near the shutter, and a swivel fitting through the firewall. I too, spent several additional days on this project. The cooler & shutter came off quite a few times.
L.Adamson --- RV6A
N8RV
Well Known Member
Update
I had the rare opportunity to fly last weekend during a break in the snow and permacloud around here. OAT was around 20*F. After about 1.5 hrs of flying around at cruise settings with the oil cooler shutter closed completely, the oil temp still wouldn't climb above 150*.
I guess my question now is this: If I can't get temps above 150 in the winter, is it actually harder on the engine to fly around with cold oil than not flying it at all?
My only other solution now is to tape off the rear of the cooler as well and see if that allows the oil temp to rise. What do you guys who live up in WI, MI, MN, etc., do in the winter? Just not fly?
I had the rare opportunity to fly last weekend during a break in the snow and permacloud around here. OAT was around 20*F. After about 1.5 hrs of flying around at cruise settings with the oil cooler shutter closed completely, the oil temp still wouldn't climb above 150*.
I guess my question now is this: If I can't get temps above 150 in the winter, is it actually harder on the engine to fly around with cold oil than not flying it at all?
My only other solution now is to tape off the rear of the cooler as well and see if that allows the oil temp to rise. What do you guys who live up in WI, MI, MN, etc., do in the winter? Just not fly?
N8RV
Well Known Member
New approach to try ...
I have a new approach to this shutter control issue. On another thread, it was suggested to use a servo to control a retractable landing light. Well, a light went off in my head -- use a servo to control the oil cooler shutter ELECTRONICALLY instead of mechanically.
I have an extra Ray Allen servo and associated hardware in the hangar. If I mount the servo on a bracket by the shutter and make a controll arm to the shutter, I can then mount a rocker switch in the cockpit, run some wires and >voile'< problem solved!
I'll let everyone know if it works ...
I have a new approach to this shutter control issue. On another thread, it was suggested to use a servo to control a retractable landing light. Well, a light went off in my head -- use a servo to control the oil cooler shutter ELECTRONICALLY instead of mechanically.
I have an extra Ray Allen servo and associated hardware in the hangar. If I mount the servo on a bracket by the shutter and make a controll arm to the shutter, I can then mount a rocker switch in the cockpit, run some wires and >voile'< problem solved!
I'll let everyone know if it works ...
JonJay
Well Known Member
N8RV
Well Known Member
Even though it's on the "cold" side of the baffling, are you thinking that it's too hot for a servo, Jon? I hadn't thought of that ...
Guess I'll never know unless I try. I have nothing to lose ...
B Cunningham
Well Known Member
Ray Allen says:
From the website:
Can I use a RAC servo inside the engine cowling?
We know of our servos that are used successfully inside cowlings, but we are hesitant to recommend it. Although the DuPont Minlon? brand nylon we use is the same basic type that is used in BMW valve covers, the strength of the gears inside get weaker as temperatures climb above 180 degrees F. Try to keep the servo in a ventilated location under the cowl away from exhaust pipes or better yet, behind the firewall. If your heart is set on using them for cowl flaps, remember that cowl flaps take a terrific air load beating so keep them as small as possible.
From the website:
Can I use a RAC servo inside the engine cowling?
We know of our servos that are used successfully inside cowlings, but we are hesitant to recommend it. Although the DuPont Minlon? brand nylon we use is the same basic type that is used in BMW valve covers, the strength of the gears inside get weaker as temperatures climb above 180 degrees F. Try to keep the servo in a ventilated location under the cowl away from exhaust pipes or better yet, behind the firewall. If your heart is set on using them for cowl flaps, remember that cowl flaps take a terrific air load beating so keep them as small as possible.
MSFT-1
Well Known Member
I have one of the NonStop Aviation butterfly valves
in my RV-10. Actually just got done installing it last week.
Some observations:
1) Very well made.
2) Ridiculously easy to install (30 minutes or less)
3) Uses a standard ACS 740 cable to move the valve from within the cockpit.
4) Works as advertised.
The only negative I found with it was this:
The manufacturer uses a small pop rivet as a stop for the butterfly valve to hit when it is fully closed. The problem is the rivet is too small and the valve can actually get stuck on the rivet.
After installing it, I went out and flew the plane for several circuits in the pattern and found that by closing the valve about half way I could easily raise the temperature of the oil from 155F to 175F (pretty cold day). I then closed the door all the way and found that it was "stuck". Not a big problem since in the five minutes it took to land the tempature only went up another 2 or 3 degrees.
I took the cowling off and could see that when i closed the valve all the way the valve was stuck on the rivet. The easy fix was to drill out the rivet and replace it with a machine screw and a castle nut that sticks down further.
So, overall I am impressed with the unit and am very happy with my purchase. Nothing against the more complicated designs including electronic ones, but this is a solution that begs for a nice simple design.
Oh, one more thing. The NonStop Aviation unit comes with everything you need except one 4" hose clamp.
in my RV-10. Actually just got done installing it last week.
Some observations:
1) Very well made.
2) Ridiculously easy to install (30 minutes or less)
3) Uses a standard ACS 740 cable to move the valve from within the cockpit.
4) Works as advertised.
The only negative I found with it was this:
The manufacturer uses a small pop rivet as a stop for the butterfly valve to hit when it is fully closed. The problem is the rivet is too small and the valve can actually get stuck on the rivet.
After installing it, I went out and flew the plane for several circuits in the pattern and found that by closing the valve about half way I could easily raise the temperature of the oil from 155F to 175F (pretty cold day). I then closed the door all the way and found that it was "stuck". Not a big problem since in the five minutes it took to land the tempature only went up another 2 or 3 degrees.
I took the cowling off and could see that when i closed the valve all the way the valve was stuck on the rivet. The easy fix was to drill out the rivet and replace it with a machine screw and a castle nut that sticks down further.
So, overall I am impressed with the unit and am very happy with my purchase. Nothing against the more complicated designs including electronic ones, but this is a solution that begs for a nice simple design.
Oh, one more thing. The NonStop Aviation unit comes with everything you need except one 4" hose clamp.
N8RV
Well Known Member
Good info to know, thanks. Hmmm ... (thinking out loud ) ... maybe a blast tube like is used to keep mags cool? Easy to do, right next to the oil cooler opening. Might be worth consideration.
Of course, then I might need to rig up a shutter for the blast tube, so that the servo didn't get too cold ...
flyboy1963
Well Known Member
mechanical marvel-ing
...hey guys, one last time.
If the vernatherm doesn't open 'til the engine oil 'needs' it to, how is the cooler 'over-cooling' our oil so much? the hot oil should just stay happily in the block all winter, right?
( and I thought I hated electronic stuff!)
sorry, I just don't get it.........but yes, I too do the oil cooler dance; cover, uncover, tape, block, plate, rinse, repeat.
...hey guys, one last time.
If the vernatherm doesn't open 'til the engine oil 'needs' it to, how is the cooler 'over-cooling' our oil so much? the hot oil should just stay happily in the block all winter, right?
( and I thought I hated electronic stuff!)
sorry, I just don't get it.........but yes, I too do the oil cooler dance; cover, uncover, tape, block, plate, rinse, repeat.
