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Canopy opening in-flight RV-6

Hi,

I am a new owner of an RV6. I am wondering if I will wear a parachute when performing aerobatic maneuvers. People have told me it will be virtually impossible to open the canopy in flight. I have a slide out canopy. Does anybody know if the canopy can be opened in flight or not?

Thanks
Steve
 
Search

Steve,
Try the "search" feature. This subject has been hashed and rehashed many times but the consensus is that it cannot be opened in flight. Several guys have added removable pins on the front roller in the slider frame that they can pull out in an emergency. What would happen after that is speculation. Fin and rudder removed by the canopy? Does it even matter at that point?

If you think that you'll exceed 9 G's in your airplane, you either need not do aerobatics or go and get some good aero training. You really ought to also take skydiving lessons if you think you might need to bail because a first time jump will leave you disoriented, tumbling and an emotional mess if you've never jumped before.

Regards,
 
pierre smith said:
Steve,
... You really ought to also take skydiving lessons if you think you might need to bail because a first time jump will leave you disoriented, tumbling and an emotional mess if you've never jumped before.../QUOTE]

training before flying with a chute yes, sky diving lessons NOT required to use a chute safely.
 
I think the concensus is that canopy removal in normal flight is impossible, but who knows what the plane's attitude/speed will be in an emergency. For example, suppose you find yourself in an unrecoverable spin. It seems that the canopy would open under these circumstances.
 
RV6 canopy opening envelope

I can state with certainty that a high pressure area develops behind the canopy of an RV-6 slider, proportional to higher airpseeed, and relative to the pressure inside the canopy/cockpit. If you do not have a good canopy to fuselage seal in this area, and fly in the winter, you know what I mean. A good quality weatherstrip is the fix for the cold air blowing on the back of the neck part of this. Getting the canopy open in flight??? Why? Did a wing fall off? Are you inverted in a spin? Doubtful as to successful egress IMHO.
 
I don't totally agree

Hostage46 said:
training before flying with a chute yes said:
Hostage, The word you used I don't agree with is "safely". Opening a parachute while you are tumbling out of controll increases the risk of intanglements and parachute opening problems.

An experienced skydiver will get stable (no rotation), face to earth before he opens the chute. When learning to skydive it takes a few jumps to lurn how not to go into a spin.
Basically you learn how to turn yourself to stop the spin.

Back to the "safely" word used. Can a person who has never jumped before survive a jump from an aircraft without a scratch? Absolutely Yes. But, IMHO this action and the word safely should not be used in the same sentence.

Once the chute opens on the little round parachute you feel great for about a second. Then you look down and wonder what your going to land on!

Hostage, I agree with you from the standpoint that I would not advise someone to take skydiving lessons just because he wears an emergency chute now and then. But if he's really anal and wants to be trained for every senario then he should.

Bailing out...to me... is a last chance effort to save your life.
It will not be a safe thing to do.

Mark
 
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Put it this way

I have well over 500 jumps and folks ask me all the time about bailing out...I tell them to stay in the airplane!

Now I'm not saying that there are circumstances where one should not get out...The most likely one I think is an in flight fire.

But as most in flight fires can be extinguished by shutting everything off and a small extinguisher...I would advise that unless you have had a major structural failure to stay in the airplane.

As mentioned above your likely to be much better off sticking with what you know...in this case a gliding airplane.

And no...I do not loan my high performance square canopy to anyone for first flights and nor did I wear it for mine..:)

Cheers

frank
 
Mark Burns said:
Bailing out...to me... is a last chance effort to save your life. It will not be a safe thing to do. Mark

I've always said that I'd have to be pretty terrified to jump out of anything

My point was that you can be trained without actually jumping from a live airplane. There are many in this forum, myself included, who rode around on ejection seats for years with nothing more then practice parachute landing falls and a few pointers on how to handle a may west. Most of the training I recieved was how to get away from the chute in the water.

In terms of the bailout proceedure, we we're taught how to get out out and pull the D-ring, which by the way, was a backup to a static line (T-34). You'd be suprised how many guys bail out of T-34's every year.

Buy the way, didn't the -6 used to have a t handle to jettison the canopy? I guess that went away?
 
Hostage46 said:
Buy the way, didn't the -6 used to have a t handle to jettison the canopy? I guess that went away?
The handle was for the tip up, not the slider. The original canopy design on the 6 was able to be ejected. Unfortunately it also leaked water. The new design (with the goose-neck hinges) is better on the leaks, but questionable as to whether you could eject it. Many (me included) omited the T handle, but left the ejection works behind the panel as an easy way to remove/ install the canopy.
 
The tip up canopy with the "goose-neck" hinges can indeed be ejected. To allow for this you cut the original slots in the forward skin and cover the slots with tape, similar to the tape used on sailplane wing roots. Mine has been flying like this for over 14 years without water leaks. And the canopy IS jettisonable.
 
It can be done

triguyinla said:
Hi, I am a new owner of an RV6. I am wondering if I will wear a parachute when performing aerobatic maneuvers. People have told me it will be virtually impossible to open the canopy in flight. I have a slide out canopy. Does anybody know if the canopy can be opened in flight or not? Thanks Steve
As suggested check archives with search. You can set up the slider to come off the rails if needed.

As far as safety chutes and needing sky diving training, not true. However I highly highly recommend you check out Allen Silver's site. He is the Guru for safety sport pilot chute's. Here are the emergency bail out procedures from Silver's site:

http://www.pia.com/silver/articlesarchive/emergen.htm

HINTS:

http://www.pia.com/silver/hints.htm

Here is the post I wrote on chutes.

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showpost.php?p=10704&postcount=3

Lets put it this way, if on fire or you have control jam/separating getting out will save your life. I have a SOFTIE parachute, Mini I bought from Paraphernalia. Glider pilots wear chutes. Last weekend a glider pilot was lost when the wings folded, no chute. A RV'er was lost in Oregon years ago when his RV-8 had a massive engine failure and fire. He bailed out, without a chute on and was lost. You can poo-poo sport chutes, but I call it 14 lbs of confidence. :D

KEEP IN MIND: These are ROUND safety chutes not little rectangular flying sport chutes. YOU DO NEED TRAINING FOR THE RECTANGULAR SPORT RIGS.

Short course on SAFETY CHUTES
Who ever said something about getting tangled up in lines and all kind of crazy stuff.......naaaaa. That is fear mongering, not based on facts. You open planes canopy, unbuckle (in that order), bail, clear the plane (fraction of second), grab "D" ring with both hands pull straight out. NO THINKING JUST JUMP AND PULL. Know where the "D" ring is by feel with some ground practice. It does not matter what "attitude" you are in or if tumbling. The key is GET IT OPEN ASAP, time is altitude. Forget what you see on TV and in movies, with Pro free fall jumpers. A big spring pops the pilot-chute out and will open the main chute in about 3-5 seconds and you'll be hanging under it. Look for steer handles, try to land INTO the wind. When you land plan on getting out of the rig fast, chest first. Good idea to have a cel phone in pocket, so if in a tree you can call for a Pizza, while you wait for the fire dept to get you down. Its not rocket science, its an emergency chute for use by pilots, not pro jumpers. You don't want to waste time trying to stabilize in a free fall, that's why you do need some instructions, but not jump training. If you are at Oshkosh Allen Silver gives a seminar usually. Well worth it. He sells "Rigs" as well. Give him a call and tell him "RV George" sent you. :D :D

Practice on the ground getting into and out of your plane with the chute on. Not recommended leaving chute in plane all the time. Protect it and find a nice piece of hard luggage to store it in, dry, temp controlled environment. When you have it repacked, ask to pull the "D" ring. Put it on and give it a tug. Its kind of nice feel what its like. I'm sure if you are bailing for real, you'll have no problem finding strength pulling the "D" ring.

393px-USMC_Paratrooper.jpg
 
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I don't totally agree with everything George says

Hi George,
I enjoyed reading your post about emergency parachutes.

You said to practice by "feel" of where the "D" ring is. Unless you expect to be blinded this is bad advice.
You MUST look at the "D" ring first. Then reach for it, then pull it. Look, reach, pull. People have died looking at the ground groping for the "D" ring when all they had to do is look at it! You can easily grab the harness instead and start pulling on it.

When you land DO NOT try and get out of the harness first thing!
Get up immediately and run toward the parachute and run around and behind it to collapse it. This is really important when it's windy. You have to be quick or you will be drug. Trying to get out of the harness while being drug is hard to do and you may wind up being drug by your leg or NECK!

I do agree with you when you say not to worry if you are tumbling, just pull the D-ring. This is good advice especially for a non-jumper. Because his tumbling is probably only going to get worse. An experienced jumper will be aware of altitude and know how long he has to get stable, maybe...should be anyway.

I love the photo of the parachute you posted!!! That's a military T-10 complete with anti-inversion netting. Why the netting? Because without it half the parachute can flip upside down while opening. It's called a Mae-West then because it will look like a big green bra. And that's not good.
That parachute is huge. 35 feet in diameter. I know you probably just posted the first photo of a parachute you came by.

I'll have to scan a photo of me under my 26' Navy conical reserve chute and post it, so folks can see how small they are. 24' and 22' emergency chutes are common also.

I just felt I needed to point out a few things that I didn't agree with, other wise I enjoyed your post George.

Mark
 
just a thought....

The RV4 canopy is not the same, but has similar pressure patterns, I'd think. I got airborne one day with my canopy unlocked. ...one of those rush job takeoffs.....more lessons learned. With my left hand on the rising canopy, at full power on takeoff and controlling the machine with my right hand, I had no choice but fly. Once airborne, I flew the stick with my knees and tried to close the canopy, but could not get the pins to slide home, due to uplift on the canopy. The trick was to pull the nose up, to around 70mph, relax the nose to something less than one G. That reduced the pressure enough for me to slide the locking pins home.

I've also punched out of an A-4 after an engine failure and know that egress in flight is not exactly a calm, in control situation. However, I'd think a bailout in an RV-6 with a slider would be accomplished in a similar manner as my RV4 experience.....nose up to reduce speed and with less than one G, slide it back and stand up.....no guarantees.
 
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