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Why so many RV-3/A/B for sale?

13brv3

Well Known Member
Greetings,

A couple years ago when I was shopping for an RV-3, there wasn't much to choose from. All I'd find was an occasional old -3 (fuselage tank era), and maybe a really expensive -3B.

Now a couple years later, it seems like there are a half dozen RV-3s for sale, but they've all been for sale for a while. Has the demand for this neat little plane dropped along with their value? I guess I just don't understand why the drop in demand for the -3. There was even a -3B kit with quickbuild wings on Barnstormers for a couple months, and it finally sold with an asking price of $5700, so it probably sold for less.

Just curious.
Rusty
 
I have noticed and have been wondering the same thing. It seems to be completed airplanes that have been languishing as of late. I can understand one not wanting to start a new build of a -3 because of pricing and delays (not to mention difficulty). Which would seem to me to increase the value and desirability of completed -3s. Hmm...curious.
 
I agree. I would have expected current, flying planes to at least hold their value, if not increase. I've seen the same half dozen or so planes for sale for months.

Is there a lull in used aircraft in general, or is it just the -3? I hadn't really followed the other models recently.

Rusty
 
Perhaps it has something to do with the aging of the pilot population. The RV-3 is an older design and I expect that the majority of them were built a while ago. Plus the older ones needed the wing mods.

Dave
 
I know of three -3Bs for sale, so old age and wing mods shouldn't be the only issue. They've never been that practical, but that situation hasn't changed. It would be interesting if there was a Barnstormers archive to see ads from previous dates. I'm sure there's no such thing though.

Rusty
 
And people think that Van should engineer, produce, and sel pre-punched RV-3 kits! Fact is, the used fleet that is out there doesn’t have that high of a demand, and you can lay down your money and fly one away today - no building involved.

I have no idea why the market is the way it is either Rusty. Single seaters are always in a unique market niche’ - people expect them to be a dirt-cheap way in to an airplane when in fact, they cost almost as much as a two-seater to build. Engine, avionics, paint - they are about the same, unless you build really, really simple..... the kit price is only a third of the finished airplane, so its not Half of what a two-seater costs. Economics are a hard reality.

Paul
 
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My take on it

Two or more place aircraft satisfy the possibility that the Mrs. may want to go (and sometimes it happens, typically when the plane is newer). The single place plane satisfies only one need and it does it in such a manner that can only be explained after you fly one.

I think it is more than the RV grin, more to do with slipping the surly bonds...
 
A few thoughts from an old guy

1- I have friends with 3A?s with wing mods. Although the mods are equal to the B wing (per Van), it is human to feel B is superior or safer.
2 - Although many of us old guys have owned Ragwings with fuse tanks and considered it normal, the tank in a 3 is a definite negative for leg room, instruments and general access.
3- The pilot population is aging and is comprised of less and less folks that are familiar with and are comfortable with a small light aircraft. They are likely to be younger with a need for another seat or two.
4- As others have stated, many 3?s are early vintage and build quality may not match those built after the gift known as VAF.
5- Not everyone has the ?itch? to experience the ?best it can be?. Otherwise there would be more motorcycle racers 😱
 
Thanks for the additional comments. The potential desire for a second seat is certainly a good reason to avoid the -3, but that hasn't changed, so I don't think it explains why there seem to be so many for sale now.

I can definitely see younger folks being less tolerant of the older more basic -3 variants, but the -3B doesn't really fit in that category. I can also see a desire for more panel space, but with today's electronics, you can put anything you could ever want on an RV-3 panel. Maybe young folks don't have those same fighter pilot dreams we had, and now they have drone pilot dreams :)

Cheers,
Rusty
 
I've flown the 3, 4, 6, and a lot of my 8 and the 3 is my favorite for everything but distance. I've said for years if I ever sold my 8, I would replace it with a 3 and a family truckster cross country plane. For the typical flying most do, the 3 is just awesome. I climb into my 8, but pull a 3 on like a wetsuit. The 4 feels much the same as the 3, but there is something about a single seater. My 8 rolls like a truck compared to either of them. If there are several 3's available, I suspect one or two are less than stellar builds and therefore difficult sells. The 3 is not a simple build and there is far less support available than we prepunched wienies get. It's difficult to build one that compares to the later kits unless the builder is a repeat offender. Either way I suspect the plethora of available 3's won't last.
 
I followed the hype when Vans reintroduced the 3 as the 3B. I watched a couple 3B?s sell for well over $50k. At that time, folks couldn?t get enough of the 3. As Vans oldest model and fewest built, prior to the reintroduction, they would come up for sale often, usually for $20k or under. They where never ?quick? sellers. The hype around the 3B changed that, perhaps only for a while?
The reality is the 3?s performance and feel is only marginally ?better? than a well sorted 4,6, 7, or 8. It?s limitations are obvious yet it costs just as much to keep as Paul noted.
Everyone who has had a chance enjoys flying the 3, but not everyone will want to own one.
 
I followed the hype when Vans reintroduced the 3 as the 3B. I watched a couple 3B?s sell for well over $50k. At that time, folks couldn?t get enough of the 3. As Vans oldest model and fewest built, prior to the reintroduction, they would come up for sale often, usually for $20k or under. They where never ?quick? sellers. The hype around the 3B changed that, perhaps only for a while?

I like this explanation.

When I sold my 3 about 10 years ago it took several months to sell. When my buddy was looking for a 3 about three or four years ago they were flying off the shelf.

Also, I think Randy Lervold's RV3 build created a lot of excitement for the 3 and that has diminished now.
 
As someone most of you would consider to be in "the younger crowd" at 34, it's seating capacity. A single-seat airplane is basically nothing but a toy for yourself, and it's hard to spend money at private airplane levels on a toy for yourself alone.

At least with a two-seater you can rationalize it to yourself (and your spouse ;) ) by saying that you can travel with it, take people for rides, and have better resale value.

I'd love a chance to fly a -3 and it might be cool to get a few people together and buy an older one as a group for a second or third airplane, but I could never justify the expense for one myself.
 
Direct to the specific question of 'why *so many* for sale now': Most likely is simple market analysis. The economy is stronger, there's more disposable income (well, among those of us lucky enough to have disposable income to start with), so asking prices are going up, inducing -3 owners who aren't using the planes but weren't financially forced to sell, to put them on the market. I wonder if you compared the 'for sale' numbers of other models (and brands), you wouldn't see the same thing. Could it be that going from zero or one to three or four is just more obvious than going from five to fifteen, when scrolling through listings?

Charlie
 
rmartinc makes my point !

Old guys have money they don't need and the wife has been long ago programmed to accept our affliction. A friend quoted once " he has never seen a Brinks Truck in a funeral procession". wait your turn, toys are good !
 
rmartinc makes my point !

Old guys have money they don't need and the wife has been long ago programmed to accept our affliction. A friend quoted once " he has never seen a Brinks Truck in a funeral procession". wait your turn, toys are good !
 
I suppose I'm qualified to chime in on this since I currently own my 2nd RV-3 and my 3rd single seat airplane. :) In reading my post after the fact, I now realize that I'm not really answering the OP's question re: why there are so many on the market right now. If that's why you're following this thread, I'll save you the time and tell you not to bother reading this post.

The RV-3 is practical for solo travel and solo fun. Beyond that, it's an extravagance that most will have a tough time justifying. As others have said, if you buy a 2+ place airplane at least you can pretend that you're going to be sharing the experience with an additional person.

This being said, the RV3 is also an opportunity to own the best sport plane on the planet at a 50-70% discount for a bunch of people who THINK they'll use a multi-place plane, but really don't. Case in point...

I recently purchased a Citabria to supplement my RV-3 ownership. The plan was that I'd do Young Eagles rides and give rides to friends and family. I've put about 35 hours on it since I purchased it on February 25th (this, in addition to about 35 hours on the RV-3 in the same time period). The reality is that about 5 of the 35 hours of Citabria time have been with a passenger and the rest were solo.

Guess which airplane I'm going to sell as soon as I have time to take pictures and polish it up for sale? The CITABRIA! It's boring to fly the Citabria by myself and I've come to the conclusion that my schedule just isn't predictable enough to make plans to give rides. "Hey, my schedule freed up for this afternoon. I'm headed to the airport for a lunch run. Wanna come?" That's about how much planning goes into my recreational flying. It doesn't work for most other people.

Once you've flown/owned an RV-3, it's hard to get excited about other planes. I'm planning to build an F1 Rocket and I suppose that's about the only plane that MIGHT be able to replace my RV-3 when the time comes. But I'm still not making any promises. :) The other factor is that it's a great 2nd airplane purely because you don't have many dollars (relatively speaking) tied up and sitting in the hangar. I may never sell mine!

EDITED TO ADD:

... and to Larry's point: I guess, I'm starting to dip my toe into the "old guy" realm at 50 years of age. I feel like I'm reaching the "old guy" finances situation a little ahead of schedule because I've always been single. No wives or ex-wives and no children's college/cars/clothes, etc. to pay for. Kinda like starting off on 3rd base!
 
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Rod,
You obviously need a -4. Whenever I do YE sessions, the kids look right past all the really nice 182s, etc, and even past the beautiful -6As & ,-9As, and salivate over a ride in my somewhat ragged 25+ year old -4. I know -4s aren't -3s, but they are pretty close. :)
 
My experience too

When I did young eagle flights with my -4 and it seemed to be the one the kids
zeroed in on. The - 3b is a sweet little airplane though.!
 
I know -4s aren't -3s, but they are pretty close. :)

I know this is what -4 drivers tell themselves, and the -4 is a wonderful airplane, for sure.....but it really isn?t that close to a -3 in handling. The -4?s I have flown are about halfway between a -3 and an -8 in ?delight fullness?. :D

Paul
 
Due respect to two great RVers

I am personally in the middle of this dispute. The late Jim Winings told me numerous times that he disagreed with Paul because Jim had done first flights on over 5 RV3’s. Jim had two 4’s and Rocket and convinced me try his 4. It was impressive, so Jim and I went to Ohio to look at the 4 project I am currently finishing.
Jim was scheduled to fly my 3B with very responsive ailerons and settle the debate in his mind, but Jim unexpectedly died. I am not qualified to judge this contest, but I will have a 3 and a 4 soon, for anyone with qualifications to settle the discussion ��
 
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back to weight discussion

I love the idea of a 3 but I keep coming back to gross weight considerations- at a chubby 200 lbs and a 3b at 800 plus lbs, I'm at less than 10 gals fuel OR use a higher gross weight as several have done. But you will find equal numbers arguing that the gross weight of 1050 lbs is sacred as per Van.
So, although I come close to making an offer- I come back to looking for rv4 with almost as good of flight characteristics and no weight problem, especially if I fly it solo like I obviously would the RV 3. And being slightly more practical, then the ability to sell someday will be better.
 
The best RV

I have to admit, when I bought my -3 in 2014 I had been looking for a Citabria because I learned in a tail wheel, and I love tandem seating. Narrow fuselages just look more sexy, and the sliding canopy gives it a fighter plane look...Cool factor is why so many Young Eagles gravitate to an RV over a 172.

The other factor for me was cost. Divorced with a kid in private school, I had a limit and didn't want a partner for my first foray into airplane ownership. I found an RV with a well documented history, It's one of the Bakersfield RV-3's very well built in the mid 80's (N66GB), and it needed repairs. Cost me $18k, and I put another 4k in it to get the motor mount and gear legs replaced. I have since done instruments, ADSb, transponder, radio, both spar mods, and misc repairs and its being painted as we speak so I am probably upside down in it as far as cost, but I couldn't care less. It is hands down the most bang for the buck out there. Well mannered, responsive, and FAST. When I fly the Citabria now, it is a little boring. As others have mentioned, even if I did have 2 seats, flying is usually spontaneous. And even if you make efforts to find a passenger, 90-95% of the time I would be by myself anyway.


Each must ask themselves "what is the mission"? If weekends away, golf trips and getting to other sporting events is your mission...RV-3 is not for you. I like to fly fast, do a little acro, and if I do want to go somewhere, I can cruise at 175 mph with good fuel economy. Flying for me is about the freedom it gives me, and having fun. The RV-3 is the perfect plane for me right now, and when the time comes to sell, it will probably be because the "mission" has changed.
 
Three 4 Me?

My first RV flight was in an early RV3. It belonged to an F16 squadron bro who knew I was building a RV4. I flew it alot and to this day believe it to be the purest Sport Plane of the breed. However comma...with increased insurance, hangar, fuel, justification for existence and other variables, owning a single seat sportplane for most is eccentric and hard to justify and why I believe people are selling them.
The RV4 on the other hand is basically a stretched, improved Three and it's flight qualities and cost of ownership are close enough that the increased utility, range, better wing and spar design, aesthetics and overall appeal lend it to be the best bang for the RV buck IMHO...
V/R
Smokey

PS: I once joked that it would be cool when the F16's were all scrapped (which may never happen) to buy one and fly it for fun if somebody else paid for the gas.
My RV3 owner SQ bro's comment was appropriate to this thread, "That would be cool, but I'd definitely buy a D model (2 seat trainer) so I could share the experience" :)
 
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Single seats have always been single seats, and hard to justify, but you may be onto something about the increasing cost of ownership making it worse now. Adding transponder and ADS-B requirements doesn't help, though many places (like here) don't need them. Unfortunately, trying to sell a plane that isn't ADS-B compliant limits the market significantly this close to the deadline, and I think that's one of the main problems I'm having selling mine.

Rusty
 
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