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Acro in an 8

tracy

Well Known Member
Friend
Got a wild hair yesterday and performed a hammerhead in my o360 8. During the rotation, I noticed smoke boiling behind/around me. After landing I realized why by the amount of oil on my belly (Case vent just above exhaust). Am I hurting the engine performing this maneuver without inverted oil?
Second, what?s the word on doing tailslides if we prevent elevator from slamming full deflection.
 
Hi Tracy,

If done correctly, a hammerhead should not do any harm to your engine since you are not flying inverted or negative G. Also called a "stall turn" in the Queen's English, a hammerhead turn is simply an abrupt 180 change of direction using gravity and the rudder; you just happen to be flying straight up when you start the turn. None of this will harm an engine without an inverted oil system.

Some considerations are worth pointing out though. The RV-8 initiates hammerheads quite nicely around 30 knots. Don't get to zero airspeed and then kick the rudder, since you might get into a tail slide or fall-on-your back regime. Keep "some" airspeed (like 30 knots) on the airplane so that you have rudder authority. On the other hand, don't start the maneuver too fast or you'll "fly over" instead of pivoting the turn.

Another consideration is the direction of turn. Because the Lycoming engine rotates to the right (as viewed from the cockpit), the gyroscopic effect of the propeller makes it so that you'll want to do hammerheads to the left. Experiment with both directions and you'll see what I mean.

Be sure to look carefully to see if the airplane is vertical before and after the turn. Use not only rudder, but aileron and elevator to finesse this. When finished, check that the wing trailing edges are perpendicular to and on the horizon when vertical down, and that you're perfectly vertical (not slightly positive or negative pitch).

On your last question about tail slides, the answer is no. Vans RV aircraft are not designed for tail slides. Definitely not recommended.

Finally, get some good aerobatic instruction if you haven't already. This is important. It will really enhance your enjoyment of aerobatics, as well as make sure you're doing it correctly and safely.

There are quite a few aerobatic RV pilots out there. I hope you have a great time with it. I also encourage you to join IAC if you haven't already. You will meet many more RV aerobatic pilots and learn more about the "art and science" of aerobatics. It's really fun to explore the capabilities of these wonderful airplanes, and aerobatics helps you to be a more capable pilot in every flight condition.
 
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Vertical flight

While flying vertical up and not pulling or pushing, the oil can pool in the accessory case, which is where your crankcase vent is located. Positive crankcase pressure and gravity can cause quite a bit of oil to escape through the vent. I would suggest at least a half system or oil separator in the vent line to prevent the loss of oil.
 
Wild Hair Aerobatics

Got a wild hair yesterday and performed a hammerhead in my o360 8. During the rotation, I noticed smoke boiling behind/around me. After landing I realized why by the amount of oil on my belly (Case vent just above exhaust). Am I hurting the engine performing this maneuver without inverted oil?
Second, what’s the word on doing tailslides if we prevent elevator from slamming full deflection.

A hammerhead is probably not a great maneuver to attempt on a "wild hair". At the very least, you need to be proficient in inverted and upright spin recoveries before attempting them. A late correction of an overshoot of the vertical line can easily result in an inverted spin since your are: 1. attempting to push the nose back to vertical with very low airspeed over the wings, and 2. Using rudder to kick the turn. These are pro-spin control inputs. Since I see that you used to own a Pitts, you probably already know all of this.

Also, are you running a fixed pitch or constant speed prop? Temporary oil starvation can cause runaway engine speed with a non-counterweighted constant speed prop.

Regarding tail slides: If you ever have a chance to look closely at something like a Sukhoi or Extra undergoing an annual inspection, you will gain some appreciation as to why RV's aren't good candidates for tail slide maneuvers. The control linkages, bell cranks, push rods, etc. are massive (especially on the Sukhoi) compared to the RV's. In addition, RV tail surface hinges are not well suited to the type of loading that reverse aerodynamic flow can impose on them.

Fly Safe,

Skylor
RV-8
 
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Tame those wild hair's

I have a friend who flew air displays in a few different Pitts over several years.

About the time he was ready to move on to other life ventures , he managed (on purpose) to do an extended tail slide and allowed gravity to build excessive airspeed in reverse. Actually a lot more than he planned on. Before the nose finally did change ends the air speed was high enough it tore much of his bottom cowl and some of his exhaust & hangars off in the process. The air flow took the parts through the propeller arc. After he got it back on the ground, the pitts moved indoors for several years and he went farming full time.

What Gash said about getting some good instruction is spot on.

Edit

I see you had an S2 so you likely have lots of aerobatic time.... The RV 8 is not an unlimited machine like the Pitts. A humpty bump is about as close as you can get.
 
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We need you!

Tracy,

Where have you been hiding? You are just 80 miles from one of the finest IAC chapters in the country. IAC Chapter 3 is in Rome, Georgia. Some of the best aerobatic pilots in the country are available to teach you everything you ever wanted to know about aerobatics. Contact Mark Fullerton ([email protected]) and tell him I sent you. They are having a fly-in meeting on January 6th.

Just to be clear, no tail slides in RV's.
 
While flying vertical up and not pulling or pushing, the oil can pool in the accessory case, which is where your crankcase vent is located. Positive crankcase pressure and gravity can cause quite a bit of oil to escape through the vent. I would suggest at least a half system or oil separator in the vent line to prevent the loss of oil.

To add to this even if you had an inverted system at 0g (which you should have on a straight up or down line) the valve on the breather line will not be properly closed in either direction so some oil loss is difficult to avoid just the volume changes (substantially) with an inverted system.

As for if the engine cares. I have a fixed pitch IO360 and looked at oil pressure at various positive, neutral and negative G loads using my Dynon before I installed my 1/2 inverted system. Oil pressure stays well above Lycoming minimums for way longer then you spend on a hammerhead so I wouldn?t be to worried about it. On the other hand I don?t have a constant speed prop nor am I an engine expert.... .

Oliver
 
Wow, am I ever impressed with your resume!! But please tell me in language I can understand exactly what or how that photo of you in your RV8 translates. I just cannot figure it out!

To add to this even if you had an inverted system at 0g (which you should have on a straight up or down line) the valve on the breather line will not be properly closed in either direction so some oil loss is difficult to avoid just the volume changes (substantially) with an inverted system.

As for if the engine cares. I have a fixed pitch IO360 and looked at oil pressure at various positive, neutral and negative G loads using my Dynon before I installed my 1/2 inverted system. Oil pressure stays well above Lycoming minimums for way longer then you spend on a hammerhead so I wouldn?t be to worried about it. On the other hand I don?t have a constant speed prop nor am I an engine expert.... .

Oliver
 
Wow, am I ever impressed with your resume!! But please tell me in language I can understand exactly what or how that photo of you in your RV8 translates. I just cannot figure it out!

That?s from my phase 1 flight testing. Simple top of a loop with a go pro from the wingtip. As you can see looking at my body I was carrying way to many positive G?s I hope I improved somewhat since ..... .

Oliver
 
Tracy,

Where have you been hiding? You are just 80 miles from one of the finest IAC chapters in the country. IAC Chapter 3 is in Rome, Georgia. Some of the best aerobatic pilots in the country are available to teach you everything you ever wanted to know about aerobatics. Contact Mark Fullerton ([email protected]) and tell him I sent you. They are having a fly-in meeting on January 6th.

Just to be clear, no tail slides in RV's.


Ron, I was just down there 3 weeks ago for their flyin breakfast. Plan on returning to the next one!
 
Another consideration is the direction of turn. Because the Lycoming engine rotates to the right (as viewed from the cockpit), the gyroscopic effect of the propeller makes it so that you'll want to do hammerheads to the left. Experiment with both directions and you'll see what I mean.

Minor point of clarification- it's not gyroscopics, but rather the spiraling slipstream that causes a left yaw that favors pivoting left, assuming your prop turns in the direction of a Lycoming.

A late correction of an overshoot of the vertical line can easily result in an inverted spin since your are: 1. attempting to push the nose back to vertical with very low airspeed over the wings, and 2. Using rudder to kick the turn. These are pro-spin control inputs.

Have you ever tried that? It's not quite as easy to spin inverted out of a hammer as it's made out to be. Not to discount the value of initial acro dual, but you have to severely mishandle the controls and pretty much hang onto fully deflected elevator and rudder. Making a pitch correction on the upline won't do it. The most common way newbies get into this situation is by kicking way early with too much vertical speed and cramming the stick in the front corner, overdoing the inputs they were briefed on. This basically snap rolls the airplane going vertical which can turn into an aggravated spin if you keep the power in and keep hanging onto those deflected inputs by the time the airplane gets pointed back toward the ground. Applying too much (full) forward stick during a properly timed kick won't do it either. That's sorta how you do a double hammer in more dedicated acro planes. If you hang onto it it'll eventually turn into an aggravated accelerated shoulder roll on the way down but you have lots of time recover before anything resembling a spin happens. But rank newbies can find pretty creative ways to screw up the basic maneuvers, so quality initial dual is wise.

Regarding tailslides in an RV, I would not.
 
RV inverted spin no fear

Having done hundreds of inverted spins in my RV4 since it's in my free style for competition for the last three years, I can offer some advice. It takes specific inputs, attitude, and timing to make an RV spin inverted as other RV competitors will concur. I received advanced instruction in an Extra 300 before I tried it. Here's a video of a botched hammerhead that starts a tail slide and possible inverted spin at the 1 minute point, but it never gets to the rotation part:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLed3Zg40mI

The error with this hammer head was dragging the right wing, kicking left rudder too late which wasn't effective in rotating the nose down.
Be careful and hope to see y'all in the box this year,:D
Bill McLean
RV-4 slider
lower AL (roll tide)
 
Here's a video of a botched hammerhead that starts a tail slide and possible inverted spin at the 1 minute point, but it never gets to the rotation part:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLed3Zg40mI

Good illustration but you never got near a spin. You got too slow before the kick and started torque rolling through the slide backward before it swapped ends. Once it flopped over there was no rotation because the controls were properly neutralized. Again, you would have needed to have been hanging into large elevator and rudder deflections after it flopped over.
 
Having done hundreds of inverted spins in my RV4 since it's in my free style for competition for the last three years, I can offer some advice. It takes specific inputs, attitude, and timing to make an RV spin inverted as other RV competitors will concur. I received advanced instruction in an Extra 300 before I tried it. Here's a video of a botched hammerhead that starts a tail slide and possible inverted spin at the 1 minute point, but it never gets to the rotation part:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLed3Zg40mI

The error with this hammer head was dragging the right wing, kicking left rudder too late which wasn't effective in rotating the nose down.
Be careful and hope to see y'all in the box this year,:D
Bill McLean
RV-4 slider
lower AL (roll tide)

I have marveled at Bill's ability to do inverted spins consistently and wondered why I have never been able to get my -8 to do the same. I have tried inverted spins from every imaginable entry and even with the addition of 20 pounds of lead to the tail (CG 1 1/4 inches forward of the aft aerobatic CG limit, mind you.) I still can not get it to spin inverted. I have enough elevator authority to fly inverted, hands off! But, it still won't spin. For someone to accidentally put a RV into an inverted spin would be a monumental accomplishment and if someone does it, please tell me how!
 
RV Spins

I have marveled at Bill's ability to do inverted spins consistently and wondered why I have never been able to get my -8 to do the same. I have tried inverted spins from every imaginable entry and even with the addition of 20 pounds of lead to the tail (CG 1 1/4 inches forward of the aft aerobatic CG limit, mind you.) I still can not get it to spin inverted. I have enough elevator authority to fly inverted, hands off! But, it still won't spin. For someone to accidentally put a RV into an inverted spin would be a monumental accomplishment and if someone does it, please tell me how!

Not to be argumentative, but It can and does happen in RV’s. In the thread below more than one person discusses having this happen. Granted, They weren’t -8’s...

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=42905&highlight=Inverted+spin

Skylor
 
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if someone does it, please tell me how!

Ron,

Every RV-8 is different, of course, but you might try this: inverted, nose 15 degrees above horizon, push straight to hold this attitude as airspeed decreases, at first sign of stall buffet, kick right rudder and feed in a bit of pro-spin aileron cheat. When it feels like an autorotation is developing, go full throttle to flatten the spin a little. I'm guessing that you probably already tried all this, but just in case...

BTW, how's your -8 handling the 2018 Intermediate Known sequence? It all looks pretty manageable, and since you've already been doing avalanches in your airplane, you have a leg up! I'll be doing Intermediate in the Extra this year.
 
he got the competition bug

I think Ron and I are glad you're on the other coast so we don't have to compete against you in your Extra. Your description of getting the inverted spin started is very similar to what works in my -4. I always start with a half loop to set the nose up attitude and slow speed to continue bleeding off with forward stick. I also cheat with some cross controls and slight left rudder lowering the wing to the spin side. As soon as it starts to break, it's full Right rudder and a punch of throttle. I start recovery 3/4 of a turn with opposite rudder and back stick about the same time.
Bill McLean
RV4
 
Not to be argumentative, but It can and does happen in RV?s. In the thread below more than one person discusses having this happen. Granted, They weren?t -8?s...

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=42905&highlight=Inverted+spin

Skylor

I'm not sure the OP of that thread had a firm understanding of exactly what happened or how he got there but it sounds a bit like the scenario I described of trying to hammer with too much airspeed while shoving the stick near full forward and snapping the airplane. Hate to judge too harshly but he had no business doing acro with a passenger if he was early enough in his acro learning to blow a simple hammer in such spectacular fashion.

My point was that it's not as if you're a gnat's *** away from an inverted spin just doing hammers. Falling on your back out of a hammer does not cause a spin. Improperly fully deflecting the elevator and rudder with too much airspeed can though. Spin inputs are spin inputs, hammer attempt or not. Hammers in RVs require very little forward stick and part of being a good acro pilot is knowing how to avoid aggravating the airplane when something doesn't go exactly as planned. It's really very simple. Just neutralize the controls. It should be instinctive. Unless you're trying to bail out of an inadvertent tailslide before sliding back too fast, there's no reason to ever jam in full elevator to correct or recover from a basic acro maneuver. And even with torque roll reversals or tailslides, you should have the sense to neutralize the controls as soon as it flops nose down. You'll never come close to a spin. True of any type of maneuver.
 
Ron,

Every RV-8 is different, of course, but you might try this: inverted, nose 15 degrees above horizon, push straight to hold this attitude as airspeed decreases, at first sign of stall buffet, kick right rudder and feed in a bit of pro-spin aileron cheat. When it feels like an autorotation is developing, go full throttle to flatten the spin a little. I'm guessing that you probably already tried all this, but just in case...

BTW, how's your -8 handling the 2018 Intermediate Known sequence? It all looks pretty manageable, and since you've already been doing avalanches in your airplane, you have a leg up! I'll be doing Intermediate in the Extra this year.

OK Karl, Ill give it a try when I get the plane back together. Canopy cracked so I decided to overhaul the engine (2150 hours) while I am building a new canopy. BTW, the -8 does the Intermediate routine quite well. Figured out snap rolls and rolling circles and the rest is not a huge step up from Sportsman. (If I have given anyone the urge to try snaps please stay well below maneuvering speed, which is 123 knots in the -8 and know that there is no need to slam controls against the stops. I have never seen more than 4 G's during the snap rolls.)
 
Spins

Most of the biplanes are far more prone to inadvertent spins than the monoplanes, the Sukoi being an exception. The Pitts S2B will probably do at least 10 and maybe 20/30 flat spins out of botched immelmans for every one out of a hammer. It was so common that I started calling it the immelspin. The scenario is half roll started with nose way too high,low on speed, when the roll doesn't stop as desired full right stick, when things get even worse, full back stick and off we go. On the other hand the S2B with cg well forward, is very difficult to get to inverted flat spin with a normal power off entry. If the spin is established and then the power is added too aggressively the airplane will often roll upright as power is applied. Note that this is only with cg well forward.
 
Ron,

What IAC class was the video from?

Is this typical of an IAC performance?

I know almost nothing about IAC
 
Ron,

What IAC class was the video from?

Is this typical of an IAC performance?

I know almost nothing about IAC

This is the 2016 Intermediate Known sequence that I flew at the East Coast Aerobatic Championships at Warrenton, VA in September.
 
That's a great video Ron! Nicely flown!

It's entertaining but also very revealing of the painfully slow roll rate of the RV. In the 1990s the father and son team of Ralph and Scott Riddell campaigned a RV-4 with full-span ailerons. Scott flew it in Advanced and did quite well. To my mind, the slow roll rate of RVs is the biggest drawback, performance wise and the biggest barrier to consistent wins at the Intermediate level. I once flew Jerry Esquenazi's RV-8 and found the roll rate of his -8 to be faster than mine. Why? I don't know. I'm busy rebuilding my engine and installing a new canopy so aileron surgery would be a good project if anyone has any good ideas...:rolleyes:
 
Having done hundreds of inverted spins in my RV4 since it's in my free style for competition for the last three years, I can offer some advice. It takes specific inputs, attitude, and timing to make an RV spin inverted as other RV competitors will concur. I received advanced instruction in an Extra 300 before I tried it. Here's a video of a botched hammerhead that starts a tail slide and possible inverted spin at the 1 minute point, but it never gets to the rotation part:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLed3Zg40mI

The error with this hammer head was dragging the right wing, kicking left rudder too late which wasn't effective in rotating the nose down.
Be careful and hope to see y'all in the box this year,:D
Bill McLean
RV-4 slider
lower AL (roll tide)

Willie,

Is your "spider" drawn on the canopy? If so what did you use to draw it?
 
Really impressive flying!

I didn't know the RV-8 could look that sharp in the Intermediate category, and the half-snap looked really solid. The slow roll rate at slow speed is certainly a drawback, but the maneuvers sure looked crisp and symmetrical. I assume you've got an inverted oil system for the sustained negative Gs required on some of those figures. Any other modifications?

Dave
 
I didn't know the RV-8 could look that sharp in the Intermediate category, and the half-snap looked really solid. The slow roll rate at slow speed is certainly a drawback, but the maneuvers sure looked crisp and symmetrical. I assume you've got an inverted oil system for the sustained negative Gs required on some of those figures. Any other modifications?

Dave

Hi Pablo,

Good to hear from you! Sure enjoy reading about your adventures and really jealous to see all the cool airplanes you get to fly. Hope one of them takes you down my way before long.

Sure, I have inverted oil as well as an oil accumulator, inverted fuel, etc. Even those without inverted systems can compete if you are willing to spend a bit of time cleaning the belly. There are no sustained inverted maneuvers in IAC competition at this level so oil starvation may only happen for a few short seconds for those without inverted oil. It poses no harm to the engine. Those with constant speed props should be careful to pull back the power quickly if the prop goes to low pitch due to oil starvation but that should not be an obstacle to competition or recreational aerobatics.
 
I once flew Jerry Esquenazi's RV-8 and found the roll rate of his -8 to be faster than mine. Why? I don't know. I'm busy rebuilding my engine and installing a new canopy so aileron surgery would be a good project if anyone has any good ideas...:rolleyes:

I don't know if it is a factor for your airplane or not Ron, but aileron shape can have some influence on max roll rate (though I don't think it would be a big difference).

If the aileron trailing edges are not properly formed with the skin profile flat along the cord line right to the tight bend radius of the training edge it will make the ailerons behave as though they were slightly narrower in cord which will also reduce there effectiveness slightly. A secondary influence is that it will also make the stick forces in roll lighter.

So if yours are not finished correctly you might get a bit more effectiveness by correcting that, but the trade off will be a slightly higher stick force.
 
I don't know if it is a factor for your airplane or not Ron, but aileron shape can have some influence on max roll rate (though I don't think it would be a big difference).

If the aileron trailing edges are not properly formed with the skin profile flat along the cord line right to the tight bend radius of the training edge it will make the ailerons behave as though they were slightly narrower in cord which will also reduce there effectiveness slightly. A secondary influence is that it will also make the stick forces in roll lighter.

So if yours are not finished correctly you might get a bit more effectiveness by correcting that, but the trade off will be a slightly higher stick force.

So, correcting an imperfect aileron profile might be accomplished by pinching the trailing edges of the ailerons to more closely aligning them with that FLAT profile you are talking about??? I understand that the square trailing edges of the flight controls of most all aerobatic aircraft is done to effectively increase the apparent chord of the control surface. Is that what we should be trying to emulate?
 
So, correcting an imperfect aileron profile might be accomplished by pinching the trailing edges of the ailerons to more closely aligning them with that FLAT profile you are talking about??? I understand that the square trailing edges of the flight controls of most all aerobatic aircraft is done to effectively increase the apparent chord of the control surface. Is that what we should be trying to emulate?

Sort of... in the case of a mis-formed trailing edge it has the opposite effect.

Page 05-10 of the current Section 5 of the construction manual has photos showing how to check it and correct it if needed.
 
Sort of... in the case of a mis-formed trailing edge it has the opposite effect.

Page 05-10 of the current Section 5 of the construction manual has photos showing how to check it and correct it if needed.


Thanks. I'll be checking my ailerons. I'm pretty sure I checked them during the construction phase but it never hurts to take a second look. (The construction manual sure looks nicer than the one I had when I started building my -8 in 2000!)
 
For anyone else interested, there is potential for this to have a negative impact on handle if it exists on other control surfaces as well....

A bulged control surface will make it act as if it were narrower in cord.
That will reduce the aerodynamic feedback... I.E. make the control forces lighter (possibly to a degree that impacts control ability)

It can also impact static stability. If the aerodynamic feedback force of the control circuit is lower than desirable, it has a lower working force against any friction within the system.

A small bit of turbulence or an occupant bumping the stick might induce a small movement of the system that doesn't return to the same position each time because the system feedback is too low to overcome the system friction.

BTW, this is also why friction in the pitch circuit is such a bad thing. Even if the elevators have the proper shape they wont recenter the same each time they are displaced if the friction is too high.

A mis-shaped rudder can also have a negative effect by reducing centering tenancy (once again hinging friction being a bad thing) and making the airplane appear to have reduced yaw stability.
 
Thanks. I'll be checking my ailerons. I'm pretty sure I checked them during the construction phase but it never hurts to take a second look. (The construction manual sure looks nicer than the one I had when I started building my -8 in 2000!)

Ask your neighbor across the street to take a look. He was at a Formation Clinic in Texas where one guy that had incorrect trailing edge bend on the ailerons and it made the airplane very hard to control in formation.

He also has a set of RV-8 ailerons that need built and could be used in the future.
 
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So, correcting an imperfect aileron profile might be accomplished by pinching the trailing edges of the ailerons to more closely aligning them with that FLAT profile you are talking about??? I understand that the square trailing edges of the flight controls of most all aerobatic aircraft is done to effectively increase the apparent chord of the control surface. Is that what we should be trying to emulate?

Hey Ron, you can keep doing scientific analysis of your poor role rate, or just tie a 25lb bag of lead weight in the aft cargo shelf and fix it.:)
 
I once flew Jerry Esquenazi's RV-8 and found the roll rate of his -8 to be faster than mine. Why? I don't know. I'm busy rebuilding my engine and installing a new canopy so aileron surgery would be a good project if anyone has any good ideas...:rolleyes:

Add a second wing.....:D
 
Tracy,

Where have you been hiding? You are just 80 miles from one of the finest IAC chapters in the country. IAC Chapter 3 is in Rome, Georgia. Some of the best aerobatic pilots in the country are available to teach you everything you ever wanted to know about aerobatics. Contact Mark Fullerton ([email protected]) and tell him I sent you. They are having a fly-in meeting on January 6th.

Just to be clear, no tail slides in RV's.

Tracy,
Take a quick flight down to Calhoun Ga (KCZL) . Not only we would love to meet another RV mate, but I will make sure Mark is available to meet you and you all will hit it off well, I'm sure. Mark is one of my closest friends and I know he will be excited to meet a fellow aerobatic enthusiast.

Let me know if you decide to come down.

Amir
 
Tracy,
Take a quick flight down to Calhoun Ga (KCZL) . Not only we would love to meet another RV mate, but I will make sure Mark is available to meet you and you all will hit it off well, I'm sure. Mark is one of my closest friends and I know he will be excited to meet a fellow aerobatic enthusiast.

Let me know if you decide to come down.

Amir

Admir, sending you email.
 
Tracy,

Where have you been hiding? You are just 80 miles from one of the finest IAC chapters in the country. IAC Chapter 3 is in Rome, Georgia. Some of the best aerobatic pilots in the country are available to teach you everything you ever wanted to know about aerobatics. Contact Mark Fullerton ([email protected]) and tell him I sent you. They are having a fly-in meeting on January 6th.

Just to be clear, no tail slides in RV's.


Looks like I'm late to the party! Nice video Ron. How's the rebuild going? I wish I could add to the comments about inverted spins and the like, but I'm not quite there yet!

As far as roll rate is concerned, I know I was very careful during the build to make the surfaces of the ailerons nice and straight. So that could be a factor. The other thing is aileron deflection or throw. When I was building mine way back, I inadvertently omitted the aileron stops. When I measured the aileron deflection I remember it being close to maximum recommended deflection. I wasn't sure how I was going to install a stop without compromising the desired deflection. Well, I always meant to go back and install some Delrin stops, but frankly it hasn't been a problem. I always have my flight controls strapped when it's outside and I don't slam my controls while flying. It is on my "to do" list however. I do have stops on the rudder and elevator!

In reference to the meeting, it is being held in Newnan at CCO this Saturday. This is from the chapter president:

Hi Everyone,

The IAC3 Holiday Party, Awards and Annual meeting will be held at the Newnan, GA airport on Saturday, January 6th, 2018. Same place as the last few years.

We will be discussing a range of topics for club activities in 2018. Everyone is welcome to attend and provide input. A judge's school is already on the calendar for March 17-18, 2018, in Columbus, GA.

Weather permitting, we will fly in the morning and then begin the club meeting following lunch. Normally we break about 4:00 so everyone can fly home and arrive before dark.

Tentative plans are to go to Newks for lunch but we will be flexible if there is a better choice. Please plan on arriving before 11:30 so we can begin lunch at 12:00.

I will let you know the details as they become available.

Hope to see you there!

I think I've talked him into going to "The Oink Joint" (a BBQ place of course) instead of Newks.
 
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