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Approach Speed RV-9

Just wondering whats the best approach speed to land a RV-9. I've been coming in at 80 MPH and finding that the RV-9 will glide a long way down the runway and is prone to bouncing at this speed.

How slow can the approach speed be?:eek:
 
Just wondering whats the best approach speed to land a RV-9. I've been coming in at 80 MPH and finding that the RV-9 will glide a long way down the runway and is prone to bouncing at this speed.

How slow can the approach speed be?:eek:

Take your airplane up and stall it with landing flaps. Add 30% to the stall speed.

Vans says the RV-9 with a 160 hp engine will stall at 44 mph solo weight and 50 mph at max gross weight. That would indicate solo weight approach speed should be about 57 mph and at max gross weight 65 mph if your airplane is like theirs.
 
Do a search on the subject, it seems to come up every six months or so.

80 MPH is only 10 MPH under flap deployment speed and is WAY too fast!

For my -9 I use 65 MPH solo and 70 MPH with two or more on board.

I've done 60 MPH but the sink rate is pretty high and you need some power to cusion the impact, err, landing.

My landing technique is real simple. Abeam the numbers I put in all the flaps and trim it for either 65 or 70 MPH and then use pitch for speed and power for distance. I consider it a bad landing if I have to add power. to make my touchdown point.

This will keep you in nice and tight and will give you a good margin above the stall.
 
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We use 90/80/70 mph for a 9A, and 90/80/70 kias for my 6A.

Just be close to the runway at 60 mph, because the 9's will drop out from underneath you too. My 6A is just about 10 mph more for the pattern and approach.

L.Adamson
 
Might want to work your way "down" to it ...

Just wondering whats the best approach speed to land a RV-9. I've been coming in at 80 MPH and finding that the RV-9 will glide a long way down the runway and is prone to bouncing at this speed.

How slow can the approach speed be?:eek:

I think that if you slowly approach finding the speed that works by decreasing your speed in 5 mph decrements you will find what works for you and your plane.

In the RV9(A), I typically want to turn to final using 80 MPH, get established and slow to 70 MPH. When I know the runway is made, then down to 65 MPH. That **MIGHT** work in your case but YOUR "mileage" may vary.

Many will say go to 1.3 x stall speed, but until you have a good feel for the plane you might want to give yourself a little cushion ... and you **probably** have a lot left if you are using 80 MPH.

I am NOT a flight instructor. I am just sharing my experience with the plane type.
 
Agree 100%!!

We use 90/80/70 mph for a 9A, and 90/80/70 kias for my 6A.

Just be close to the runway at 60 mph, because the 9's will drop out from underneath you too. My 6A is just about 10 mph more for the pattern and approach.

L.Adamson

This is EXACTLY what I have told a friend. Easy to remember and easy to do. Same "#" for each plane type just MPH in one and KTS in the other.

James
 
I'm curious, are we talking (original poster) CS prop, or fixed pitch? With the CS, things change big time when/if the power goes away. Don't be too far out and too slow. With a CS, full flaps, and the power off, the -9 can almost parachute down from pattern altitude. Just play with it. You'll find what you are comfortable with. If you're floating that far every time, clearly you have more energy left over than you need. Just because someone else likes 57 knots over the numbers, doesn't mean that I have to :).
 
2 or more?

"For my -9 I use 65 MPH solo and 70 MPH with two or more on board."

Bill, is that before the 9-month quickbuild was finished??:D

greg
 
"For my -9 I use 65 MPH solo and 70 MPH with two or more on board."

Bill, is that before the 9-month quickbuild was finished??:D

greg
Greg,

70 works just fine with myself, my wife, and now 7 month old QB on board our three seat RV-9. Yep, I've mounted a babyseat in back and it works great. Thanks Jamie for the idea.
 
Baby seat

I too have incorporated seat anchors for a baby seat. Would anyone like to share how they did it. Send me a PM if you don't wish it to be public.
Matt
 
Like Bill, I use 65/70mph solo/two people. I have a FP and find 60 fine IF there is no chance of wind gradient. Also don't forget to add gust factor and a little for wind gradient if the winds are high. I have found I can come down final with power as low as 57 mph (1.3 X stall) but I wouldn't be comfortable power off. Glide starts to resemble a brick. I find the 9 much harder to land if you are fast.

Bob Kelly
 
A Vref speed of 1.3 times the stall speed is used on a lot of larger aircraft. There are a few things to keep in mind:

  1. The margin of 30% between the stall speed and the approach speed represents quite a few knots if the aircraft has a high stall speed, as with airliners. But, it is only a few knots on slower aircraft. A 30% margin might not be enough on some aircraft.
  2. The pilots of these big aircraft usually add 5 or 10 kt above the published Vref, and only decelerate to Vref just before the wheels touchdown.
  3. Many aircraft have significant airspeed system errors at low speed. A landing reference speed (Vref) of 1.3 times the stall speed only provides the expected margin from the stall if it is based on calibrated airspeeds. I.e multiply the CAS at the stall by 1.3, and then fly at this CAS. Many airspeed systems under read at the stall. If the IAS at the stall is multiplied by 1.3, one may be much closer to the stall than expected. For example, the POH for the Cessna 182Q that I fly once in a while says the max weight, aft CG landing configuration stall is at 50 KCAS or 38 KIAS. If we fly at 1.3 times 38 KIAS, that is 49 KIAS. The position error chart says that 49 KIAS = 55 KCAS, or 1.1 times the stall speed. Anyone who tried to fly an approach at 49 KIAS would likely get a nasty surprise when they tried to flare.
  4. ASI instrument error and static system position error may be quite different between different examples of the same model RV. I.e. two different RVs flying at the same IAS may actually be at quite different speeds. So, just because an approach speed of XX mph works on one RV, doesn't mean it will work on another one.

It is quite unlikely that very many amateur-built aircraft owners have the means to determine the calibrated airspeed at the stall. So there is no practical way to determine an approach speed that is 1.3 times the CAS at the stall. What is a fellow to do? I recommend the following, based on the flight tests that are used to determine minimum safe approach speeds for both light aircraft and transport category aircraft:

  1. Fly the aircraft enough to have developed a consistent normal approach technique.
  2. Ballast the aircraft to max landing weight at forward CG. Make sure the ballast is well secured.
  3. Climb to a safe altitude, and conduct a series of simulated approaches and landing flares, using the same technique as you would use in a real approach and landing. Reduce the simulated approach speed by a knot or two each time. Note the aircraft controlability at the approach speed, and note the ability to flare. Note the minimum speed where the aircraft has satisfactory characteristics.
  4. Pick a day with very light winds and no turbulence or wind gusts. The best time to find such conditions is right after sunrise, but even then there may be several weeks between days with suitable conditions. Be patient. Don't risk a hard landing by doing these tests on a day with gusts or turbulence.
  5. Fly a series of approach and landings, using your normal approach and landing technique, but reducing the approach speed by a knot or two each time. Pay attention to how the aircraft responds to the flight control inputs in the flare. Note any signs of inadequate control, impending stall, difficulty in obtaining a satisfactory touchdown, etc. As you reduce the approach speed, eventually the aircraft will start talking to you. It will tell you that you shouldn't reduce the approach speed any further, or you will risk a hard landing, etc.
  6. Caution - Don't be too aggressive about trying to demonstrate the absolute minimum possible speed. This path leads to a hard landing, and possible aircraft damage. Stop the investigation when you have a slow minimum speed that allows an acceptable flare and touchdown, using your normal technique.
  7. The following restrictions, from the requirements for type-certificate aircraft, are recommended to ensure that a minimum speed approach and landing demonstration is not a "party trick":
    • Once the power has been brought to idle, there should be no need to increase the power. By all means, if you need to increase power to achieve a safe touchdown, increase the power. But you should conclude that perhaps the approach speed was too low, and the minimum approach speed should be increased.
    • The power changes that are made should be the same as would be made during a normal approach and landing. E.g, if a normal approach and landing has the power brought to idle in the flare, it should be possible to do the same during the demonstration of the minimum approach speed.
  8. Add a comfortable increment (perhaps 5 kt) to this minimum demonstrated approach speed, and this becomes your minimum operational approach speed, to only be used in calm conditions. If the conditions are not smooth, add a few more knots, so that as the airspeed bounces around in the bumps, the bottom of the bounces is no lower than your minimum operational approach speed.
  9. Confirm the ability to safely manoeuvre at your minimum operational approach speed by conducting turns at that speed at a bank angle that is a bit higher than the highest you would use in service. You should be able to maintain a stabilized turn without encountering stall warning. Increase the minimum operational approach speed if required to obtain satisfactory manoeuvring capability.
  10. If you have a short field landing technique that differs from your normal landing technique (perhaps you keep power on until touchdown, and use a minimal flare, etc), repeat the above series of tests using a short field technique. You may have different minimum approach speeds for normal and short field landings.
 
Kevin,

That is the best read yet on working to determine the numbers that work for each person/airplane.

The numbers I use are based on my phase 1 testing and many flight hours since then.

During my Phase I, I made 7 landings on 8/26/07 and the next weekend, 9/1/07 I made 25 landings. These were not all simple, line up three miles out and grease her on type landings. I worked down below 1.3 x my stall to see what would happen as well has higher speeds. If you haven't done this test, I highly recommend you try it.

Find a long runway, come in fast and watch how far you float before stalling it on. Yes, do full stall landings on each one. Also note your VSI, when the speeds get slow, you probably won't have enough energy to flair and arrest your sink rate. Your butt will tell you when you are slow as it will just drop in. These can be hard landings so be careful.

The other thing I thought was cool was you could feel it when in ground effect and how far the plane would glide in ground effect before stalling.

Just some ramblings as I think back to those early flights.
 
AOA

If you really want to fly into and out of short fields, why not get an AoA system? Much more better than the "notoriously inaccurate airspeed indicator."
 
If you really want to fly into and out of short fields, why not get an AoA system? Much more better than the "notoriously inaccurate airspeed indicator."

I can't say how accurate my airspeed indicator is at higher angles of attack, and slower airspeeds; but it's quite consistant. When it hits 55 kias which is quickly with a C/S prop...............then I know that I had better be very close to the runway. But I would like an AOA though.

L.Adamson --- RV6A
 
Okay, I need to revive this old thread.

I am in Phase I and spent the first 20 hours dealing with engine performance and now I am wanting to focus on my landing technique.

While I don't find it hard to land my -9, I do find it a challenge to replicate the same approach time after time. It seems that 3 out of 5 are consistent but 2 out of 5 are unpredictable. It seems my years in Pipers and Cessna's hasn't served me all that well for my -9. I am trying to fly my RV like a Piper and it isn't working. I am honestly admitting I am currently not an expert on landing an RV and would love some input. I really want to try a bunch of different techniques and see what works. So far having done 30-40 landings, I haven't found anything that I am loving. I did my transition training in an RV-7 with a C/S prop and had not trouble replicating the same approach over and over. What's the trick with the -9 F/P?

I like to hear what guys (and gals) are doing for pattern procedure. Answer any that you wish.

1. How far from runway on downwind?
2. Speed on downwind?
3. A-Beam, what do you do?
4. Flaps, when and where?
5. Square pattern,180 or dog leg?
6. Speeds in the descent?
7. FWD Slip?
8. Those of you that are doing power off approaches, are you concerned about shock cooling (in winter)?
9. C/S or FP?
 
Tony,

Here's where I am now after about 230 hours:

1) typically 1/4 to 1/2 mile, depending on conditions. I prefer to fly close patterns and want to always be within gliding distance of the field
2) varies, but I want to be at 100 mph and pattern altitude abeam the numbers
3) pull power to idle, put in flaps
4) as soon as I'm below 100 mph (typically around 95), I put in full flaps (takes a few seconds, of course)
5) usually a somewhat modified square pattern to 180 - depends on lateral distance to runway and crosswind component
6) hold nose up to hit 75-80 mph, trim at 75 (76 is best glide)
7) slip as necessary depending on whether I cut the corners too much etc. Usually I'm right on at my home airport (5000 ft elev) but find that there is too much air at lower altitude and may have to slip to get down but I'm getting better at judging this
7a) I try to come over the fence at about 65 mph with a bit of back pressure so that if anything, the nose will go down rather than up if I let go of the stick
8) I've thought about shock cooling, but from what I've read it's not as big an issue as some people make it out to be. I'm certainly not a mechanic (you are probably better placed than most to make this call) so don't really know whether shock cooling is an issue. I would tend not to pull total power if it is really cold (below maybe 15 F)
9) FP

If I'm trying to land really short, I will come over the fence at 60 mph and can typically put it down and stop (with minimal braking) easily within 1000 ft of runway. On a good day I think I could hit the threshold and stop within 500 ft if necessary (plenty of brakes needed).

Hope this helps

greg
 
-9a ops

Great points Kevin, and Tony, I have to add one thing.
I too have only 25 hrs and a few dozen landings, so am 'feeling' out the right speeds.
My question is; are full flaps really better than 2/3? If they only lower the stall 1 knot, and max lift is at 15-20 degrees, are we better off to use 20, and then be able to slip with more safety or authority if needed, or accelerate out of a botched flare into a climb?
Just a question, based on some of the opinions that full flap slips are 'bad'.

Testing at altitude has to be the best, and most difficult thing in the world to do! maybe with a safety pilot calling out the descent, while you look out the front pretending to see the numbers. ( where's that synthetic HUD when I need it!?!?!)
I agree that doing a hundred Cherokee 140-style arrivals, (dropping it in from 6' a bunch of times) is not good for the -9 gear or anything else.
 
Thanks Greg,

I am going to give your technique a whirl. It sounds like you keep in pretty tight. Something that I like. I am finding that it's tough to keep the speeds down. I had been aiming for 65kts, but I think that's my problem. The wing is too efficient at that speed. I will slow it to 60 kts and see how it does. I know its a slightly nose high sight picture, that's where the the difference in airplanes is significant.
 
Great points Kevin, and Tony, I have to add one thing.
I too have only 25 hrs and a few dozen landings, so am 'feeling' out the right speeds.
My question is; are full flaps really better than 2/3? If they only lower the stall 1 knot, and max lift is at 15-20 degrees, are we better off to use 20, and then be able to slip with more safety or authority if needed, or accelerate out of a botched flare into a climb?
Just a question, based on some of the opinions that full flap slips are 'bad'.

Testing at altitude has to be the best, and most difficult thing in the world to do! maybe with a safety pilot calling out the descent, while you look out the front pretending to see the numbers. ( where's that synthetic HUD when I need it!?!?!)
I agree that doing a hundred Cherokee 140-style arrivals, (dropping it in from 6' a bunch of times) is not good for the -9 gear or anything else.

Hey Perry, Sounds like you and I are at the same rodeo! I was told that full flap slips are not a problem in the -9. I too would like to hear some response to that. I have tried to notice a CAS error when I roll into a slip. It appears there is none. Cessnas get error if ram air enters the static port. Also they get tail buffet with full flaps. I noticed none in the -9.

I am trying to take a scientific approach to flying the pattern and just not finding the combination yet.
 
Full flaps on a Cessna can cause blanking of the elevator during an extreme slip, even though I've never seen this happen on the later "swept tail" models. The early square and round tail models had much more rudder authority and could get you into trouble with a full flap slip.
Low wing airplanes typically don't exhibit this characteristic.
The last 10 degrees of flap on an RV don't noticeably reduce stall speed, but they do add drag. I always use full flaps when landing on short runways.
My runway is 1500' and many people consider this short!
 
Its all about power management. I'm pulling off an inch of power every minute starting 10 miles out. There are many Cessna type planes where I live so you gotta slow down to merge nicely.
I fly the pattern at 800' AGL.
I also keep it in close on downwind - 1/4 mile or so. Pull off remaining power to idle about midfield. Flap speed is 90 mph (top of the white arc).
10 deg flaps abeam the numbers trimming for 80 MPH.
20 deg flaps on base trimming for 70-75 mph.
30 deg flaps on final trimming for 65-70 mph.

My pitch trim is usually full nose up by the time I land. Even though I have a FP Sensi prop, I installed an MP gage.
 
Thanks Greg,

I am going to give your technique a whirl. It sounds like you keep in pretty tight. Something that I like. I am finding that it's tough to keep the speeds down. I had been aiming for 65kts, but I think that's my problem. The wing is too efficient at that speed. I will slow it to 60 kts and see how it does. I know its a slightly nose high sight picture, that's where the the difference in airplanes is significant.

Tony,
About 450 hours now in the '9 (with CS prop). I have moved my speeds down the last couple of years (I operate off of 2000' of grass) and it helps with consistency.

Another thing that helps with a consistent soft touchdown is to get the nose up. I mean really up in the flare. If you raise the nose just a little you'll get an okay arrival but typically it will drop in a bit. If on the other hand you raise the nose more just as you think you're about to touch, you'll soften the impact and get a lot of aerodynamic braking.

Currently I'm doing the following.

Solo (1500 lbs or so) 60 knots on short final with full flaps. Stall in this configuration is buffet at 46-47 knots and break at 45.

Gross 65 knots with full flaps. Stall in this configuration is buffet at 50-51 and break at 49-50 knots.

Give that I have a CS prop, I almost always need a hint of power on short short final, but I pull to idle as I begin the flare.

Good Luck
 
Van's gives 100 mph (87 kts) for 15 degrees flaps and 90 mph (78 kts) for full flaps.

I usually aim to slow to 85 kts when abeam the numbers, then add partial flaps and pull back on the power. Getting partial flaps in makes it a lot easier to slow down more from there.

After turning base I slow to 75 kts and add the rest of the flaps in. Once on short final I slow to 65 kts + 1/2 any gusts.
 
Approach in my 9

I enter downwind and slow to 90 MPH . Set 10 deg flaps and go to 80 MPH Set another 10 deg flaps (20) prior to turning base. Work to 70 MPH and set max flaps prior to turning final. HOLD 65 MPH on final no slower than 62 over numbers flair and land. Using a 1800 ft grass runway and can usually land with 600 feet left over on the runway. Not perfect every time but at least respectable 4 out of 5 times. My runway does not have " side limits therefore the nose high get me off to the side sometimes. I usually cut the grass wider on the " landing end" RV9 with slider , FP and O320 120 hrs TT Most of my time is without any passengers might make that 65 over the numbers with load or gusty wind.
 
numbers game

...Interesting; I fly almost that exact profile....in KNOTS!
So I am 15% faster, assuming the ASI is reading similar accuracy at those speeds.
I'll say, 62 knots over the numbers, and she's sinking like a rock. I usually have enough energy and elevator to flare, but it don't seem to float much.
I can't imagine at 54 knots....( 62 mph) that there would be much cushion above the stall....your technique would have to be perfect!
 
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...Interesting; I fly almost that exact profile....in KNOTS!
So I am 15% faster, assuming the ASI is reading similar accuracy at those speeds.
I'll say, 62 knots over the numbers, and she's sinking like a rock. I usually have enough energy and elevator to flare, but it don't seem to float much.
I can't imagine at 54 knots....( 62 mph) that there would be much cushion above the stall....your technique would have to be perfect!
Keep in mind that the airspeed system errors (ASI instrument error + static system position error + low speed pitot error + effect of any leaks) may differ between these two aircraft. So, if you were flying in formation, at the same airspeed, the ASI indications might differ quite a bit.

In other words, the indicated airspeeds for approach and landing that work well on one aircraft, with its individual airspeed system errors, may be completely wrong on another aircraft.

If you've got a set of speeds and techniques that works well for you in your aircraft, don't beat yourself up over the fact that someone else uses a different ASI reading than you do.
 
Slow down Bessie!

Bought a 9A with FP yesterday. Help! I can't slow down. Is electronic ignition keeping rpm higher than mags?
Can't seem to get down to white arc. Lands ok with no flaps but floaty.
Any help?
 
Shouldn't be an issue. I pull power to idle and put in full flaps abeam the numbers, turn base when numbers are at 45 degrees over my shoulder, and usually end up right on the numbers. This is at 5000 ft (similar to Prescott). At lower altitudes I tend to float more. Full slip if needed to get down. (our pattern altitude at RTS is about 800agl so I may be starting a bit lower than you). If you're not careful putting in flaps, you might gain 100-150 feet altitude.

Just thought of another possible issue keeping your rpm higher than normal - you might check the idle jet and make sure it's set for the proper altitude (don't know where you bought the plane).

Greg
 
slowing down

Thanks Greg. Bought at sea level and still at low alt. due to storm in Prescott. Seems to idle fast on ground here. Was worried about white arc since it would not slow down in pattern here. So, skipped the flaps for most of the landings. Easy to land but using a ton of runway. Might wait to adjust things after I get back to thin air. Does Van allow a bit higher speed for the first 15 degrees? No flap indicator on this one, so I have to guestimate postion. I bought it for the speed... but it sure is hard to slow down. Guess I will learn.
(195 hp- Catto three blade)
 
You don't have to wait to top of white arc in order to "START" adding in flaps. I almost always add about 10 deg of flaps on down wind when I get down to about 90kts. In addition, I find that on early entry into the pattern one can easily trade off speed for altitude. I slight climb will reduce speed enough for early deployment of a small amount of flaps. You will be surprised how much drag the 10 degrees will give you. I guess the bottom line is to plan ahead, as early speed management is important especially with the 9's wing that likes to fly. If all else fails and you find yourself too high and fast you can always slip to decrease altitude without gaining too much speed and then again trade off altitude for speed. It will become second nature after awhile. I'm sure you will get many suggestions from others on the forum.

NOTE:I am not an expert nor a flight instructor, I can only tell what has worked for me so YMMV

Good luck
Bill
 
Thanks.... love Ramona by the way. Stuck in Bakersfield today, since WX in Prescott is for ducks. I tried a slip and it felt OK... but did not increase the sink all that much. Rudder to the floor. Will try again tomorrow. Might just be lack of planning in pattern, but it builds speed quite fast and does not want to give it up. Will try to see if I cannot get a flap position sensor to feed the Dynon... and see how many degrees are hanging in the breeze. Found it leaks rain on the seats too. Have to work on that one.
 
Thanks.... love Ramona by the way. Stuck in Bakersfield today, since WX in Prescott is for ducks. I tried a slip and it felt OK... but did not increase the sink all that much. Rudder to the floor. Will try again tomorrow. Might just be lack of planning in pattern, but it builds speed quite fast and does not want to give it up. Will try to see if I cannot get a flap position sensor to feed the Dynon... and see how many degrees are hanging in the breeze. Found it leaks rain on the seats too. Have to work on that one.
So what is your warm idle speed (static, on the ground)? I didn't see where you indicated that.

Anything above 600 rpm and you'll float much more than you need to; plus you'll have a greater tendency to balloon on landing. Dropping mine from about 700 to 550 made a lot of difference.
 
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Idle is over 850 on ground here at 500ft. Maybe that is prob. When I pull breaker on elec CDI it slows a bit. No tools to pull cowl and adjust.
 
Thanks Mike. Had read the forums forever, but did not join until I owned an RV.
A ton of experience here. At least some good comes from the internet.
Will learn to manage the plane in time. Boy the wings sure look short from the seat. :)
 
Is it really 195HP?

195hp on an RV-9? Wow! Although properly managed 195hp might be OK, be sure you have read the Vans articles below. Note that there are two in this one .pdf and the second one relates to RV-9/9A's.
http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/hp_limts.pdf

Double wow - please, as suggested, read the article. I understand that the added horses may be great for high altitude operation (T/O), but RESPECT Vne. The 9 is not like the 6, 7 and 8s. Enjoy your new plane.
 
Read both articles. Slowly. Good stuff. I think altitude, slippery planes and pitot tube variability dictate extra prudence. I am always at 10k or above. Will heed the VNE and be conservative.
 
It sounds like the issue is in how you enter the pattern.

With my FP -9 I try to get to pattern altitude three to four miles from the field. That usually gives me enough time to get the speed down to 120Kts for patten entry. Slower is better.

Abeam the numbers I put in all the flaps as I am usually just getting into the white arc and trim it for 60 Kts and fly the entire pattern at that speed. At light weights I will fly slower but I suggest you start at 60. You can load up the -9 in a turn to scrub off some excess speed, if you need.

Regarding the Vne, do some speed runs, you probably can't hit it in straight and level flight. To do it going downhill means your engine will also be over redline.
 
Idle is over 850 on ground here at 500ft. Maybe that is prob. When I pull breaker on elec CDI it slows a bit. No tools to pull cowl and adjust.

My idle at 5000 ft is around 900-920. Anything slower and the engine lopes too much with the light (3-blade) Catto prop. When I had an aluminum Sensenich, I could keep the idle lower because of the better flywheel effect of the heavier prop.

Greg
 
I have no idea where you can idle that engine, but I would guess it is WAY lower than where it is now. My O-320 160hp idles smoothly at 400-420rpm and it makes all the difference in the world. At 700, it floated way too much. Since you have electronic ignition (I have P-Mags) you should be able to come down quite a bit, at least to 550. I only pull to full idle on final, although it can be pulled all the way on the ground. If it doesn't shake or die, slow it down! Watch your rpm on final pulled all the way back and you will see it is considerably higher than while stopped. That is from the prop absorbing hp--and speed. Incidentally, I couldn't idle this low until I added the second P-Mag. Big difference in idle smoothness.

I also have the Catto three blade...

Bob
 
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Float

Hey Nick,

Set the ground idle to no more than 700-725 rpm with the Catto. A healthy engine with correct timing should idle smoothly at that speed. You will see a big improvement in controlling "float" on the 9a.

BTW, do I know you--I am also based at KPRC??

ps. It is still raining!

Cheers,

db
 
Yep...all off the above (or below depending on how you view threads). Personally, I am configuring for landing about 3 miles prior to entering the pattern. Power comes back, begin to slow to Vfe (flaps 10) which for me is around 86kias for about 2 seconds flaps. Once you get that initial flaps in, the RV9 will slow pretty well. With no flaps it doesn't like to slow down at all. Like one person said, pitch up a bit to bring the speed back into the white arc. By this time you should be mid-field or so. That's when I dump full flaps, power set to about 1700. Once abeam, I go full flaps and power more or less to idle.

My normal approach is at 1.3 Vso +5kts/-0kts or 55-60cias.

My short-field technique is at 1.2 Vso or 51cias +0/-0.

On my "lazy" approach (no consideration for float) I usually approach at 60-65 cias.

The -9 will float if you approach at any speed above 60-65 at 75cias in "ground effect", you pretty much are at LD/Max plus the ground effect. You will float forever.

Keep in mind my speeds listed are "cias" which is "calibrated to my aircraft". I am sure your numbers will be similar, but you will need to go our SOON and verify your speeds (Vs and Vso especially)

Admittedly I struggled with landing consistently in the -9 until I forced myself to nail my speeds. My state Idle RPM is around 550-600. That helps a ton.
 
Sounds like I should have another look at my idle. I've never liked it idling that high (900) but always had trouble with roughness below that.

Greg
 
another rookie here.....

...with only about 62 hrs on type, I found a common issue; the 9 is easy to fly, but takes some work to fly really 'well' ( proficiently). in the first year, it was easy to cruise around and land pretty nicely every time....but only because it tolerated my bad habits.
somehow I still thought that to land, you pointed the nose at the numbers, and managed the glidepath with throttle & flaps. well........that might work, if you are already at the perfect position, height, speed, rpm, when you roll onto final. It took a while to recall the other, some would say true, way of controlling descent & speed.
I'm still learning, but like many other better pilots than I have said, pitch up to nail the speed you want. I'm still surprised how much I am pulling back on the stick in the landing sequence, ( and all the way to the chocks, as they say!)
keep at it, you'll learn something every time out....I sure do.
 
Sounds like I should have another look at my idle. I've never liked it idling that high (900) but always had trouble with roughness below that.
Does it idle rough in the air or on the ground, Greg? In the air it would be a problem, but not a problem if stopped on the ground.

I have my static idle (when warm) set at about 550. Once I finish my rollout it does get rough, but for ground ops I just give it a bit extra throttle until it smooths out, which is usually around 750. That's a good taxi rpm anyways. Seems to work well with my 2-blade Catto.
 
DB... heard you departing on the weekend. Sure a lot of RV's coming and going. I think the type... is keeping GA alive in some places.
When we returned, I was assigned right entry runway 12. Tower did not mention the Cessna tail dragger doing about 50 in the pattern.
I ran up his tail... too fast coming home, as usual. Tower sternly said, "FOLLOW the traffic ahead"
I am revisiting all the techniques given here for approach and landing speeds for the 9 series. Sloppiness has crept in I think... and I am using too much runway. Thanks to all who have given input historically on this thread.
 
controllers vary, as do Cessna's!

...truly I'd appreciate if the tower says, 'follow the 140 on downwind'
or....'follow the C-210 on downwind'.
..but that said, a lot of controllers think 'Rv's are fast'.
I've been cleared to land on a 5 mile straight in, so I gradually slow, but try to stabilize my approach at one mile. Funny how long it takes at 65-70 kts.
when I know I'm in front of airline traffic, I do 100 until closer in, or offer to go around. Heck, it's all good practice, right?
I once cranked it up to 150kts on a long approach at the towers request, and it was fun to see how to bleed off all that energy, but I don't make a habit of it!
 
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