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Dayton's engine upgrade

Dayton Murdock

Well Known Member
Hi All
I have decided to upgrade my RV-4 with a O360 C/S and this will be the thread of that process.

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I look forward to any commits and advise
 
Comment - " You can do it buddy "
Advice - " You can do it buddy "

With your skills, this will be easy.
 
Dayton: could you comment on your thought process to go down this road?

And thanks for letting us follow along!

Doug
-4, wings
Seattle area
 
O360 RV-4

Dayton,
I have a old Air Force buddy that made the same conversion to his O320 wood prop RV-4. He used a WW 151 prop so the CG would workout. It had incredible performance.
Go for it!
Danny
 
Geee....adding a constant speed prop means he's going to have to upgrade his throttle quadrant! I told him I might have a recommendation..... :)
 
I have the WW151 prop, and the CG is dead on with amazing performance. Have WhirlWind make the ?old? style blades for the prop... 1 mph slower, but the acceleration and deceleration are incredible.
 
An O-360 or IO-360? Also I can't help but wonder if the pound per horsepower equation works out or whther you might not be albe to extract more HP from an IO320 without the weight penalty of the -360?

Just musing.

Chris
 
Update

Hi All
I have moved the Fuselage to the shop and begun work

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The floor boards are removed and the first change will be to relocate the ELT
 
No substitute?

Hi All
I have decided to upgrade my RV-4 with a O360 C/S and this will be the thread of that process.

1e9v9s.jpg
[/IMG]

I look forward to any commits and advise

Hi Dayton,
Having done this conversion for several friends over the years here are a few points to ponder...

1. Vetterman 4 pipe won’t fit the same, you’ll need a new #4 pipe.
2. Will need new baffling/plenum/carb intake scoop. Yup, have to cut cowl.
3. May need to tweak cowling for fit, 0360 is wider.
4. New CG/Restricred AW cert required, logbook entry/FSDO visit easiest.
5. Bottom line? $3000 per knot/100fpm climb increase.

:)
V/R
Smokey

PS: It didn't dogfight any better either but (as mentioned above) takeoff/climb mucho grande.
 
Last edited:
Hi Dayton,
Having done this conversion for several friends over the years here are a few points to ponder...

4. New CG/Restricred AW cert required, logbook entry/FSDO visit easiest.
5. Bottom line? $3000 per knot/100fpm climb increase.

:)
V/R
Smokey

PS: It didn't dogfight any better either but (as mentioned above) takeoff/climb mucho grande.

The CG I knew about, Restricred AW what is that?
And I told my wife before I started that this would be cost neutral ;)
 
Hey Dayton, what is cost neutral? Does that mean you have to spend the same amount on stuff she wants as you spend on the plane? :D That seems to be the way it's working at my place...new panel = new flooring! :eek:

Can't wait to see your FWF come together!

Cheers,
Bob


The CG I knew about, Restricred AW what is that?
And I told my wife before I started that this would be cost neutral ;)
 
The CG I knew about, Restricred AW what is that?
And I told my wife before I started that this would be cost neutral ;)

Not sure what Smoky is saying, unless he means you have to put it back into Phase 1 for a period of time. We should read your Ops Lims to make sure what version you have - but its not going to be a big deal beyond a few hours of testing.

Paul
 
Change in my pocket...

The CG I knew about, Restricred AW what is that?
And I told my wife before I started that this would be cost neutral ;)

Dayton,
I was referring to the original Restricted Airworthiness Certification/Operating limitations you received from the FAA post construction. You can reference it for any major changes (prop, HP etc) for the log entry when you re-enter phase 1 as Paul mentioned. You set the test period as necessary, Mel Asbury recommended 5-15 hours to me as a guide. Email him if you have questions.

I can email you a sample log entry if you need.
V/R
Smokey

BTW, there is never a cost neutral involving airplanes....:)
 
Last edited:
Not done till the paperwork....

Dayton,
Here’s the FAA entry from my Ops Limits on the 0320A to 0360JJ conversion on the X.

"I certify that the prescribed flight test hours have been completed and the aircraft is controllable throughout it's normal range of speeds and throughout all maneuvers to be executed, has no hazardous characteristics or design features and is safe for operation. The following aircraft operating data has been demonstrated during flight testing: Speeds Vso___;Vx____;and Vy___ and the weight____and CG location____at which they were obtained".


V/R
Smokey
 
In the details...

Carl,
Good point sir!
I was trying to emphasize (albeit vaguely) the need to make two logbook entries when you make a major change to an Experimental (amateur built) aircraft's performance/CG and re-enter/exit Phase 1 testing. As you know the FAA provides sample logbook entries in the Ops Limits of the Restricted AW cert document.

Hopefully anyone interested in making changes to an already successfully flying airplane can utilize the info. :)

Cya!
Smokey
 
Yesterday I punch the hole for my autopilot upgrade. I was reminded that we build and upgrade your airplanes with the help and support of your friends and family. My wife made a excel spread sheet to keep me in budget. Paul Dye has loaned me a tool or two and given me some of the best advise. Dave Asp provides encouragement on occasion. We are all part of this experience and I was just looking back at the journey. Just think I will have a RED O360 C/S RV-4 with an autopilot!! CAN IT GET ANY BETTER!!



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Wiring

Hi All
I am still moving wires around getting ready for the auto pilot upgrade

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now if I could just remember where they all went to?
 
I have autopilot servos to install over the winter along with electric elevator trim and hopefully electric flaps. Curious to see how you mount servos
 
Check your PM's

Dayton -

Please check your PM's as I have a question not directly related to this thread.

Thx

David Howe
 
Putting a plane back into Phase I often requires a letter to the local FSDO and a new test area along with a written response from the FAA (or DAR). Your operating limitations will specify what's required. Some just require a log book entry but many require more. Even if you just have a log entry, you have to have a phase 1 test area agreed with the DAR or FAA. That's super easy if you still live where the original phase 1 was done and have the paperwork.

I had to do this for an inverted oil system on my old Skybolt. The airplane had a Christen system originally that was removed. I asked the local FSDO, they said going to a Raven inverted oil system required a new 5 hour test period for the major alternation.

It took me about 6 weeks to sort the paperwork with the FAA between negotiating a new test area, getting a new set of operating limitations, and then they came out to the hangar to do the final paperwork. The folks were nice and training a new person so maybe they were more thorough than normal. A DAR likely will be quicker.

An easy link to 14 CFR Part 43 appendix A defines a major alteration
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/appendix-A_to_part_43

I did the paperwork before installing the oil system to avoid down time.

Check to make sure your insurance covers Phase 1 operations.
 
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New location for the trim system relays is already paying dividends.
After testing I discovered that the elevator relay did not survive the relocation.

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The old trim location has been remodeled
 
Hi All
I started the firewall hole for the governor clearance. The wire has been rerouted for the aft fuselage, Auto pilot is installed, fore and aft sticks have re wired, ELT and the trim system is relocated.

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Well I am officially waiting for an engine, I have install an autopilot moved my ELT, move the battery and relays and installed the governor mod to the firewall.
The seats are out to the upholsterer for a leather upgrade. Maybe mid February I will have an engine :)

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I’m not seeing the pics on the last two posts Dayton - guess I’ll have to stop by again....
 
Prop cable run

Prop cable run
Does anybody have any good pictures of how their prop cable goes through the firewall on their RV 4
 
Update

Hi All
I have hung the engine (Tight Fit!!) and I am in process of connecting all of the controls and firewall penetrations. The exhaust system is ordered and a new starter is coming. Lots of small details to finish up before I can take back to the airport. I will post again with some pictures.
 
Flying at last

I am finished with my engine upgrade and have flown the airplane for the five hours necessary in phase 1. I am delighted with the performance change the aircraft exceeds my expectations. The cruise speed has increased significantly fuel burn however is another story I didn?t know you could put that much gas through Lycoming.The new climb performance is stellar I am very happy with it. I have a few more little things to work on and I am not posting any numbers if you want to know the numbers send me a PM and I will give them to you . Thanks for watching my post if you want to see pictures I have posted them on Facebook
 
Way to go Dayton!
You should see less fuel burn once she is broken in. Roughly, 1/2-1 gal per hour at the same cruise numbers leaned out vs your 0320, all things being equal.
 
Way to go Dayton. I'd be curious to see what your fuel burn is at your old cruise speed. I can only imagine how that combo is on the 4, cause it was pretty darned neat on the 8.

Congrats
 
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