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RV-8 Rear Cockpit

My Dad and I are building an RV-8 QB (empenage complete,wings closed and tips finished, interior fuselage panels done) and were wondering if anyone has put a minimum cockpit (either glass or steam guage) in the backseat of their -8? Also, has anyone put a true dual throttle (throttle, mixture and prop control) in the back? We're both pilots and don't want to let the other have to much fun up front. Ha Ha! Any info or pics would be greatly appreciated.
 
Sorry, no pics available. But consider a "large" portable GPS for your back seat autopilot, er, pilot. ;) Mount it on the mid-cabin steel tubing assy/front seat back support. I've mounted a GPS Pilot III and it worked nicely for map, heading and altitude display.

I'm sure with a little thought and some mods, you could put mix, prop & and throttle in the back. I just have a throttle.

What you didn't mention was the rudder pedals and brakes. If you want full dual controls, you might want to think about what you want with pedals. Van's backseat pedals, are OK for flight but pretty minimal for anything like landing or taxiing. And they have no brake accomodations.
 
I agree fully with Bri...uh BRYan. (We're a highly intelligent people.) I would keep any instrumentation to a bare minimum in the back as it will certainly get smacked around by knees, feet, etc during egress over the years. A GPS alone is fine. Let the front seater monitor the engine. Put the ASI high up in the corner of the panel so the GIB can see it and leave it at that.

The back seat rudder pedals are fine for flight, but hard to work on the ground. I found myself stomping and cursing at them mostly during my dual checkout back in '99. I was able to takeoff and land with them but it seems they could use more length...just maybe an inch more, so your feet are actually pressing on them instead of the 804 bulkhead over which they extend. I have both the pedal and throttle kits but will probably never install them.
 
I installed the rear throttle and have only had one person use it. I don't let people in the back do take-offs or landing so they really don't have a reason to mess with it.

I also found that the rudder pedals for the rear are pretty much useless. The ailerons are all you need for coordinated turns so the rudder pedals aren't even needed. I also disliked the way they ate up space on the little side panels (where the fuel selector is). I stow charts and stuff there and the shafts of the rudder pedals just pissed me off. So they're gone.

I do like the little idler arms that support the rudder cables where they join with the rudder pedal cables. I will leave them in.

I don't have any instruments in the back right now. I plan on replacing my Lowrance airmap 100 with a 600c. I will then mount the 100 in the back seat for my wife (or whoever else may be back there).

Karl
 
I have a Garmin 196 that I will be mounting to the rear of the front seat on the roll bar. It has a screen with the 6 pack instruments that would provide the rear pilot with enough information. It's light and I also plan to mount it into the removable mount so I can grab it for a back up if necessary.
 
I've always wondered why one of the EFIS manufacturers haven't put out a flat screen attachment to their systems which is just a display of what the front person see's running off the fronts air data computer etc. This way the back seater can cycle through PFD / ND / Engine page and keep right in the loop if desired. I would certainly look at buying something like this.
 
Andrew Griffin said:
I've always wondered why one of the EFIS manufacturers haven't put out a flat screen attachment to their systems which is just a display of what the front person see's running off the fronts air data computer etc. This way the back seater can cycle through PFD / ND / Engine page and keep right in the loop if desired. I would certainly look at buying something like this.
Dynon was asked to do this on their web forum. They said that they had looked at the concept, but they would need to sell the repeater display for around $1,500, and they didn't think there was a market at that price. I agree.
 
Andrew Griffin said:
I've always wondered why one of the EFIS manufacturers haven't put out a flat screen attachment to their systems which is just a display of what the front person see's running off the fronts air data computer etc. This way the back seater can cycle through PFD / ND / Engine page and keep right in the loop if desired. I would certainly look at buying something like this.

You can do this functionally with a GRT unit - add a third MDU, and put it in the back - but it's not a flat panel. The problem is that the MDU isn't just a screen, it's a whole computer. In order to let the backseater have control over their own display, it would essentially have to be that same whole computer, so adding a flat panel would be a complete re-design....

I agree though - it would be a neat option!
 
The idea went badly off track. What I originally suggested was literally a repeater screen. Thin form factor, no buttons or controls, not even an on-off switch; just a mirror of whatever was on the parent unit. The idea morphed into being controllable so that you could display another function.
 
GRT in the back seat?

My RV-8 is wired for a EFIS unit in the back seat, along with the previously described rudder pedals and reat throttle control. I have an instrument panel cut and powder coated for attachment to the rear roll bar. The problem involves the depth of the GRT unit. If installed on a panel that lies flush on the rear roll bar, it interferes with the back of the front seat. I have several ideas to solve the problem, but due to other projects, I've not dedicated the money or time to this upgrade.

BTW-I did all of my transition training (six hours) from the back seat of a RV-8 with the rudder pedals. The first dozen landings at LZU were interesting, but after that, it was definitely nott the most difficult thing I have encountered.
 
It cost about $2000 to add the second EFIS/One screen. The nice thing is you can use all the functions from the back seat. The only down side is that the two screens are not independent. What one sees the other sees. I think a garmin or airmap would be plenty for the back seat driver but they cost almost or more than the second EFIS/One screen.
 
TSwezey said:
It cost about $2000 to add the second EFIS/One screen. The nice thing is you can use all the functions from the back seat. The only down side is that the two screens are not independent. What one sees the other sees. I think a garmin or airmap would be plenty for the back seat driver but they cost almost or more than the second EFIS/One screen.
Garmin 196, $799...
 
Thanks for the Input!

Thanks all of you for the info on configuring the rear cockpit of an -8. We have decided to keep it simple and install an a/s indicator, van's throttle and an Infinity grip (to mimmick the front stick). The rear-seater should be able to do all the flying they want with this configuration. Hope everyone has a great Christmas and a Happy New Year! Thanks again.
 
camera with screen

When I went throught flight school in the Army we did instrument training in TH67 (JetRangers). The back seater had a LCD screen that had video feed from a cigar camera. The video was of the pilots instruments.
One bad thing about it was it gave the GIB motion sickness if he wasnt careful.

The good thing is you can aim the camera to other places (ie. outside) add a video recorder and tape the flight, formation shots, etc!!!

One other option is to build another RV-8 and you guys can have some great formation flights!!!!

Good luck with your decision!!

Bruce Ray
Savannah, GA
RV-8 QB Currently in test flight phase
 
RV-8 back seat panel

I built a back seat panel and added a third GRT EFIS ( I was having building withdrawl). I attached a .063 panel with 4 Adel clamps and it fit great. I have a 1" spacer to make the front seat back more upright and it would hit without this spacer, but I could have moved the EFIS lower on the panel to make it fit without the spacer.
Feedback from any backseater who is a pilot is great - they know everything that is going on. I also use my backseater to run the checklists (make your own with GRT).
Finally, any test program is easier with this panel as the GIB records data
I have the throttle -used occasionally
Rear seat stick - used every flight
Rear seat rudder pedals - used very rarely

Bruce "FM" Edwards MD, MPH
Aerospace Medicine Specialist
RV-8 391FM - flying
IO-360 200 hp
Triple GRT EFIS
Flying Naked (no paint) 79.2 hrs
 
I have a full size ipad mounted to the back of my front seat using a RAM ball mount and a short arm. It displays moving map and full flight instruments via Foreflight and a Stratus II. I use an ipad mini up front which is panel mounted via an angled bracket just below my Dynon D100 also running Foreflight. Great set up but obviously no engine instruments for the back seat.
 
I have a 7" G3X Touch Panel installed for the rear passenger. Configured as a second PFD - it should allow the person in the back to use the autopilot as well tuning the COM and XPDR. To attach the panel I have welded some distance blocks on the seatbelt attachment to have some "meat" for the threads. The seatbelts for the pilot are then attached normally. I have also a fully equipped rear stick and a flap switch on the backseat panel. The grounds for those functions are over a switch in the front so I can disconnect the functions of the rear stick and flap switch .

Here are some Pictures:






 
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Back seat instruments

I am using GRT for the front for my second RV. GRT is a fantastic company. for the backseat ILevil AW with an IPad. The ILevil has a WAAS GPS and flight instruments will supply several other units via WIFI.
Regards, Brent
 
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