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Landing the 8 at night

Eddie P

Well Known Member
He’ll fellow 8 drivers.

I am very comfortable landing my 8 in a diverse set of conditions. I abdolutely love this airplane. All my flying in the 8 so far has been in daylight. I will likely be looking to do some traveling in the machine and that means the option to comfortably land after dark or takeoff before sun up is desirable to be flexible. I’ve got a lot of night experience but no night experience in taildraggers.

My setup is adjustable lighting in the cockpit, “Advanced” (efis) display and ForeFlight iPad mini. Landing and Taxilights are standard “old school” halogen. My WAG is to plan a first night operation in the RV-8 as a basic traffic pattern session on a nice evening at home base (to avoid loading up with complication up here in mountain country). So really, in my case, I am looking to transition my “night knowhow” into very specific RV-8 and taildragger night knowhow. While these skills share some foundations they are also totally different in the landing portion when it comes to depth perception and visibility. Any RV-8 night drivers care to share some tips? One buddy of mine flys a 6 and says he 3 point lands all night arrivals, for example. I’m comfortable in 3 point and wheel landings in my 8 but I would have guessed a wheel landing would have been preferred for better runway visibility on that last foot. Anyway, that shows my lack of experience in this specific area. Yeah, there are probably lots of pros and cons to each as well. Please comment if you have some experience and of course thanks in advance! Ed
 
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I?m comfortable in 3 point and wheel landings in my 8 but I would have guessed a wheel landing would have been preferred for better runway visibility on that last foot. Anyway, that shows my lack of experience in this specific area. Yeah, there are probably lots of pros and cons to each as well. Please comment if you have some experience and of course thanks in advance! Ed
For me, flying my -8 at night consists of wheel landings using a bright pair of LED landing lights, one in each wingtip. That's about it, easy peasy.
 
As with everything in the -8 it is slowing down from 50 knots to taxi speed on landing. When doing a wheeler landing, the moment you lower the tail your visual cues change and it becomes quite alarming.

The night flying bit is great. Air is generally nice and smooth and there are fewer people flying. As long as the cockpit lighting is dimmable and reaches all areas you need to get to. A good way to check this is to put a blackout curtain over the cockpit - whilst you are inside - and check you can see everything. Small lettering on switches can be a problem.

I always wear a head torch..not on my head...but loosely around my neck. As then there is a chance I can always find it. It's amazing what you can lose in a cockpit, when you think you are organised.

I would start in twilight, in still wind and then slowly build up your confidence and then build up to those dark nights.

Over the last year I've been clearing RVs to fly at night in the UK. Once you get used to it it's great fun.
 
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Night

I fly mine at night all the time. Wheel landings are easiest for visibility and once you lower the tail just get to the side of the centerline so you can see the runway turnoff taxiway lines. If you're on centerline they are tough to spot and since the taxiway is to the side it can be difficult to turn off smoothly.
 
Dusk

Start out just after sunset and play in the pattern so each landing gets a little darker..gives you a little time to adjust rather than just going for it in the dark!
 
Landing and Taxilights are standard ?old school? halogen.

Ed

I?m going to comment even though my RV is the 7A. ?Old School halogen? IMHO doesn?t give off sufficient light especially if they?re the old wing tip installation type. I switched to LED lights after my first night landing attempt.

The halogen lights didn?t even project enough light for taxiing and my first landing attempt had me seeing the runway surface about two seconds before touch down.
 
Fantastic thoughts guys, each and every response has been appreciated. Summing up some of the help here... I have a hands free light I have and will wear around my neck to back up any lighting I may find I need (great suggestion). Sounds like my initial WAG on wheel landings being a good thing is backed up by many of your experiences here. Agree on the statement that it all comes down to 50 knots and below during roll out... stay aware, maintain SA and good aircraft control in the night conditions. Great idea on being aware of the lead off taxi lines to increase SA on transition to taxi too. My old school halogen lights may be adequate but agree, I have my eyes on some bright LED lighting upgrades. I think it is inevitable, I will probably time it for winter when days get shorter and my CI comes due. I’ll report back with my findings. Always happy to hear more too, thanks to all.
 
I went with the really expensive AeroLeds. They were awesome to work with. Lights make it look like the sun is rising. Not cheap but WOW! You know they are bright when a LED is pulling 7 amps each. Can?t beat it and the peace of mind durning night landings.
 
Wow! Was wondering what sort of amp draw those lights demanded. Definitely worth making sure the new lights have their own proper power setup and breaker as appropriate when swapping from “old school glow” to “Landing Light Switch of the Rising Sun” �� My buddy who flies at night a lot in his 6 upgraded as well and has not for one penny or second regretted it. Opinions and results will obviously vary but thanks for the feedback.
 
I replaced leading edge 55w halogen spots with 1800 lumen 10 degree Rigid spots.

I find, for half the amp draw they are noticeably better, right at adequete. Both are spots and they give just enough angle on a taildragger for landing and taxi.

That said, I would go with a 3000+ lumen 4 amp landing light and most any 1800 lumen + taxi light if looking for single lamps or bumbs.

Since Paul's lights are awesome, if you have the amps and wiring, they are a no-brainer.

For wig-wags, I use the Kuntzleman unit, I think my 2 amps per light is about the top draw of what it supports.
 
OK first off many thanks again to all of you here. Great advice, great points made by all. While I have a lot of night time experience flying diverse types of flight ops at night I did not have any RV night experience or tailwheel night experience. To be able to draw from everyone's experience was gold.

I had my first night sortie last night. The takaways for me were as follows:

1) Taxiing was probably the hardest part for visibility, for me, with the tailwheel stance. So I had a good look at the airport charts ahead of time to be sure I would know where I am and where I'm going ahead of time if I were at an unfamiliar airport. Since I am based in a hangar on a slow side of a larger airport it still payed to do that even though I'm familiar and the Foreflight active taxi chart was good to have too.
2) Owing to good advice here, I wore my hands free light that I used once or twice in flight and several times before start and after touchdown. Really helpful to shine light where the cockpit lights were not installed (like checking the floor/rudder area when my checklist dropped). I just used this light I bought at Amazon, it's easy to "wear" but is not "G" proof https://www.amazon.com/Huglight-Light-Handsfree-Reading-Black/dp/B00P4QX0RK/ref=asc_df_B00P4QX0RK/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=193988463246&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=14220956551883513645&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9030897&hvtargid=pla-312296955519&psc=1
3) Cockpit management is more important at night in a single pilot airplane so I made sure I had everything close by that could be needed and checked before flight. The handy hands free light helped.
4) The standard halogen lights were good enough for landing. I started to pick up runway glow at about 150 feet and saw the markings easily at 50 to 75 feet so that was good. Brighter would have been fine but better than bright, I'll look for a slightly more diffused aim pattern to see the lighting well to the side of the nose (left and right) when I upgrade to more modern and capable LED night lighting. I used both the taxi and landing light for illumination. Good points on looking for the taxi line turnoffs to the side.
5) I used a wheel landing technique for this go. I can see I'd also be comfortable with a three point landing technique too with a little more practice.
6) I had a blast and feel a lot more comfortable with the concept of pushing into night ops if required on a trip in the RV-8 now. Much better to do this night ops thing after practice at home with no agenda except to try it out first.

Thanks again all, fly safe!
 
Made a night 3 point landing to compliment previous practice night wheel landings this evening (partial moonlight). Very standard operation and happy to report no surprises. The biggest thing for me with night ops in an RV-8 is organization to make sure lighting is adequate and everything is ready to use and store properly when finished in the reduced visibility. My neck light continues to be a good asset to point at areas where cockpit lighting does not illuminate (for good reasons at times). For me taxiing takes a lot of attention in a taildragger in general at night to be sure areas are clear of potentially unmarked obstacles. Tonight I started out at a rather unfamiliar and complicated little airport due to multiple runways and taxiway geometry. Took it slow. The touchdown after that at destination was at my familiar field so it was anti-climactic. Have fun at night in your RV’s, and fly safe!
 
I had one light aimed down for taxi, and it made light landings with wheel or three point with no sweat.

Being a former no-light and NVG helicopter pilot, maybe I was more comfortable. Practice makes perfect in most things.

I also practiced a few no-light landings where getting the height requires a few different visual clues, but you might need it sometime, so think about what you'd do if you lost lighting at night. For example I once landed a warrior at night with no lights on purpose because the runway with lights had a 30 knot crosswind. I at least knew that was coming from my weather briefing so I could choose which challenge I would prefer.
 
Marshall, that’s a great point. I had wondered if I should give the no light landing a try at some point myself in the 8. While I may have a fair bit of overall night experience, it’s the specific type of operation (and recency of those) that matter especially during contingency situations. Always good to go in as the underdog with some humility (Fate is the Hunter, Ernest Ghan). Also thank you for sharing that great story about the unlighted runways with no cross wind vs the lighted runway with a big crosswind. For sure a consideration on night cross country planning, alternate airport considerations and “what if” planning. The safest pilots always have a few “just in case” fallback options that have been considered beforehand.
 
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What size?

I went with the really expensive AeroLeds. They were awesome to work with. Lights make it look like the sun is rising. Not cheap but WOW! You know they are bright when a LED is pulling 7 amps each. Can?t beat it and the peace of mind durning night landings.

Regarding your upgraded Aero-Led-lighting, are you using the MR16 size or PAR 36 size? What model or part number are your Aero LED lights?

Charlie
 
AeroSun Vx

I just had the 10th anniversary of the first flight in my 8, and my lighting was very dated. I had one 50W Halogen slide projector bulb in each tip for landing lights, some first gen LED nav lights (with perhaps 25 weak LEDs working in each tip!), and an off brand imitation of Whelen strobes which were actually pretty good.

Just installed the AeroSunVX in each tip. It was certainly a bigger retrofit project than I originally thought but the finished product was worth it from both a functional and aesthetic view. Yes they are pricey, but I'm very happy with the end result!

Getting back to the Original posting, I recently made a night landing on our air park (with no runway lights) on a moonless night. They were perfectly adequate, the only thing was that I turned off the wigwag as that didnt seem to be helping my perception. A nice stabilized GPS guided approach was probably the most important thing, but the lights were great and I would not have even considered attempting it with my old lighting setup. My neighbors talked about how I "lit the place up" and "put on a light show"....

Lastly, one poster above commended on Rigid lighting solutions. I've used their PAR lights in aircraft (as a taxi/landing light) and they are great! I put one in my Super Cub last year and it does very well. They are working on a new generation that should be even better.

Tim
 
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