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Door latch indicator

dspender

Well Known Member
Following the installation instructions for the latch indicator; as the magnet sets at the mouth of the latch pin my ohmmeter shows continuity. Following directions, as I advance the magnet deeper into the pin the continuity disappears. That is no different than if I did not have the magnet in the latch pin or the door was not fully latched. Can you explain in simple electrical terms, like 5th grade, why I need to advance the magnet into the latch pin until the Reed Switch opens, ie shows no continuity?
 
The door open warning lights will be ONin your panel as long as there is continuity across the reed switch
When the magnet closes in on the switch and opens the contacts, the electrons stop flowing to the relay and the relay turns the light off in panel.
Without the magnets your lights would stay on.

There are many variation on installing these but this is what Van intended.
Keep it simple.
 
Yep, that is right. Relay/switch contactors are either "normally open" or "normally closed", which describe their de-energized state (or un-magnitized). A normally open conact closes when energized (like a relay) or closes when magnitized (as in a reed switch). Some relays have both connections and they are labeled NO or NC.

This gives you a lot of wiring options.
 
I discarded my Van's magnetic switches and used normally "ON" micro switches that make contact with the tips of the latch pins. I have them adjusted so they do not break contact until the pins are fully engaged and the interior door handle is locked in full closed position.
 
Can you explain in simple electrical terms, like 5th grade, why I need to advance the magnet into the latch pin until the Reed Switch opens, ie shows no continuity?

Yes, folks are used to energizing a relay to turn something on.

In this case, the relay is being used to turn the lights off when energized.

Vans does this by using the NC contacts to power the light through the relay.
 
This is the instructions included with the kit. See if the bolded area gives you any trouble like it is giving me.

5. Close and fully latch the door
6. Connect a continuity tester or Ohm Meter to the two wires on the rear switch. In its current state with no magnet present, the switch is open and will measure no continuity or infinite resistance.
7. Slide the magnet that was supplied with the Magnetic Reed Contact Switch in the Aft latch Pin. As you insert the magnet you will see evidence on the tester of the switch closing. Use something non ferrous to slide the magnet forward in the latch pin until the switch opens. Take note of the depth you push the magnet into the latch in.
8. Slip something ferrous in the Aft Latch Pin and pull out the magnet.
9. Unlatch and open the left door. Apply epoxy into the latch pin. Close and latch the door. Insert the magnet into the end of the latch pin. Use something nonferrous to slowly slide the magnet forward in the latch pin until the tester just indicates that the switch opens. let the epoxy cure.

My concern is if I slide the magnet forward in the latch pin until the tester just indicates that the switch opens, the indicator lights would suggest the door is not latched. I believe I need to slide the magnet in enough so that just before the tester would indicate open, I stop before that point. What do you think?
 
The reasoning for using the normally closed switch is the default switch condition creates continuity without the use of a relay. To extinguish the door open light, the magnet must be inserted next to the reed switch to cause it to close.
I too used a micro switch rather than the magnetic switch. My switches will not make contact unless the pin is fully engaged.
 
The system is design the way it is, to prevent the possibility of a system failure giving a false indication that the door was safe when it was not.
If the supplied switches and relay are used, a shorted or broken wire, anywhere between the relay and the switches should be unable to produce a false positive that a door is latched.
 
Re-read Mike and Bill's answer - I think you're conflating the switch being open with the door indicating (or being) open.

It is confusing.

==dave==
 
This is the instructions included with the kit. See if the bolded area gives you any trouble like it is giving me.

5. Close and fully latch the door
6. Connect a continuity tester or Ohm Meter to the two wires on the rear switch. In its current state with no magnet present, the switch is open and will measure no continuity or infinite resistance.
7. Slide the magnet that was supplied with the Magnetic Reed Contact Switch in the Aft latch Pin. As you insert the magnet you will see evidence on the tester of the switch closing. Use something non ferrous to slide the magnet forward in the latch pin until the switch opens. Take note of the depth you push the magnet into the latch in.
8. Slip something ferrous in the Aft Latch Pin and pull out the magnet.
9. Unlatch and open the left door. Apply epoxy into the latch pin. Close and latch the door. Insert the magnet into the end of the latch pin. Use something nonferrous to slowly slide the magnet forward in the latch pin until the tester just indicates that the switch opens. let the epoxy cure.

My concern is if I slide the magnet forward in the latch pin until the tester just indicates that the switch opens, the indicator lights would suggest the door is not latched. I believe I need to slide the magnet in enough so that just before the tester would indicate open, I stop before that point. What do you think?

Have you read all of the instructions? I do not recall exactly but I thought after the epoxy dried I adjusted the sensor position to get it to just close contacts with the door closed.
 
Bob that was my problem. I did not realize that the sensor begins somewhat away from the pin so that when the magnet is set in position it does open the circuit but the circuit does close once the switch is rotated back toward the pin. I think that took me three hours to figure out the correct way to do it. Not the instructions problems because they are excellent.
 
Is the 10 Latch indicator light still there, I am finalizing my wire pulls and cannot find it in the plans?? Can someone point me in the right section of the plans?
 
Is the 10 Latch indicator light still there, I am finalizing my wire pulls and cannot find it in the plans?? Can someone point me in the right section of the plans?

Electrical wiring is in the optional plans, not the default standard plans. If you have the CD, you can see the option plans. They aren't included as part of the standard kits.

I would highly recommend pulling a wire to drive either a dedicated LED or an annunciator input on your EFIS.
 
If you're going to run Dynon, this thread may help: http://dynonavionics.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1400098744/6#6

You'd just need to figure out the switch placement. Based on what they're saying, the Dynon alerts on open state + RPM. If you ran a microswitch you could run a couple of LED indicators on the NC side and hook the Dynon to the NO side. When the doors close the NC side will open, turning off the light and the NO side will close, giving signal to the EFIS.
 
Sweet....! , if I can have Dynon manage this through the EFIS, that is much simpler. Does anybody have a recommendation\part number for a microswitch they used on their doors vs the Van's reed switch? Much appreciated

Steve



If you're going to run Dynon, this thread may help: http://dynonavionics.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1400098744/6#6

You'd just need to figure out the switch placement. Based on what they're saying, the Dynon alerts on open state + RPM. If you ran a microswitch you could run a couple of LED indicators on the NC side and hook the Dynon to the NO side. When the doors close the NC side will open, turning off the light and the NO side will close, giving signal to the EFIS.
 
As a corporate jet jock and RV-10 owner, I am used to door warning lights but I don?t understand the need for a light in my -10 to indicate if a door is open or closed.

It is in sight and reach and all I need to do is verify handle position and push on the door to verify it is closed and latched.
 
Electrical wiring is in the optional plans, not the default standard plans. If you have the CD, you can see the option plans. They aren't included as part of the standard kits.

I would highly recommend pulling a wire to drive either a dedicated LED or an annunciator input on your EFIS.

Bob, the wiring was not on the plans CD/DVD I got from Vans. It also was not in the OP-xx set, and is not on OP-37 the electrical drawings.

Perhaps you have to buy the optional kit to get the schematic?

PS Doesn't bother me though, I'm wiring up micro-switches to LED indicators installed in one of Steve Melton's 3D printed parts. :)
 
As a corporate jet jock and RV-10 owner, I am used to door warning lights but I don?t understand the need for a light in my -10 to indicate if a door is open or closed.

It is in sight and reach and all I need to do is verify handle position and push on the door to verify it is closed and latched.

Not at all correct.

The RV-10 doors can easily appear shut if the forward pin is in but the rear pin is out (as in the door is racked and the rear pin is outside the door frame). RV-10 doors have been lost in flight because of this design issue.

Install the switches and have all four in series to a warning light - most use a indicator input on their EFIS. On my SkyView the light is green if all four pins are in, red if any pin is out. To do it right, install the cam lock door handle mod as well: https://planearound.com/shop?olsPage=t/rv10

Carl
 
+1.
1. I never allow a passenger to close a door. I load right side first, then I close the door from the outside. I pretend to be a gentleman, helping them in, but really I?m up there to close the door myself.
2. On my run up checklist:?Check doors properly latched?. As Carl explained, pushing near the front is not sufficient. I contort my body around to look between the seats at the aft right door, to confirm it?s pulled in. Left door is easier, but you still have to look back.
3. I do have the warning lights.
4. Remind yourself, ?If a door opens, let it go.? There?s been one fatality when the pilot tried to save the door, and lost control of the plane. Of course this has happened on normally certifed aircraft too.
 
Not at all correct.

The RV-10 doors can easily appear shut if the forward pin is in but the rear pin is out (as in the door is racked and the rear pin is outside the door frame). RV-10 doors have been lost in flight because of this design issue.

.....
Carl

Can someone confirm that this condition cannot occur with the PlaneAround latch if the interior handle is in the closed position and the door "looks" closed?
 
Planearound Latch

Hi Gil,

I have installed 5 sets of Planearound 180 latches with friends and customers. (new aircraft and re-fitted on 10 year old aircraft )

I have been flying for four years in my RV-10 and have many, many, non-aviation passengers for the local scenic flight. (whale watching season )
They all hop in and close the doors with no special briefing.

With all that has been written about the doors on the '10, I have played with, pushed, twisted and jammed stuff half out the door trying to understand how it is possible to not latch correctly and with the Planearound centre latch and Stainless pins correctly installed and adjusted, I do not think it is possible.

By the very design of the centre latch, the door has to be closed in the cabin top recess before the centre latch can engage. The door pin guides centre the door and once the centre latch is rotated approx 90 degrees, the door pins then glide through their guide blocks and into the door jam.

I am very vigilant about my doors and it is on my checklist but I have confidence in good design and operation.

If you have an RV-10 and do have doors that you have to wrestle with, please have another builder have a look at them with you to understand what is not right.
 
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The door closed switches came with one of my RV-10 kits. I think it was the finishing kit, but not sure about that. Instructions for their installation were included in the bag with the switches.

While you could substitute micro switches for the magnetic proximity switches provided by Van's, I'm not sure why you would want to do that. I found the proximity switches easy to install, and the Plane Around 180 door latch kit works with these switches. I intend to tie the switches into my Garmin EFIS system for display of the door open warning, rather than using the pilot lights and relay that came with the switches. Should be a neater installation, and the open door warning will be in my face on the PFD if the door isn't closed while doing the run-up checks.
 
Not at all correct.

The RV-10 doors can easily appear shut if the forward pin is in but the rear pin is out (as in the door is racked and the rear pin is outside the door frame). RV-10 doors have been lost in flight because of this design issue.

Install the switches and have all four in series to a warning light - most use a indicator input on their EFIS. On my SkyView the light is green if all four pins are in, red if any pin is out. To do it right, install the cam lock door handle mod as well: https://planearound.com/shop?olsPage=t/rv10

Carl

Carl,
I added planearounds cam mostly to avoid the flex in the doors at higher speeds. It is still possible to bow the doors enough to have the aft pin outside of the door block but it requires a serious effort to make this happen. Both front and aft door pins are only a couple of feet from my seat. I prefer to trust my eyeballs and a good shove on the door to some electrons and a bulb. KISS
 
Hi Gil,

I have installed 5 sets of Planearound 180 latches with friends and customers. (new aircraft and re-fitted on 10 year old aircraft )

I have been flying for four years in my RV-10 and have many, many, non-aviation passengers for the local scenic flight. (whale watching season )
They all hop in and close the doors with no special briefing.

With all that has been written about the doors on the '10, I have played with, pushed, twisted and jammed stuff half out the door trying to understand how it is possible to not latch correctly and with the Planearound centre latch and Stainless pins correctly installed and adjusted, I do not think it is possible.

By the very design of the centre latch, the door has to be closed in the cabin top recess before the centre latch can engage. The door pin guides centre the door and once the centre latch is rotated approx 90 degrees, the door pins then glide through their guide blocks and into the door jam.

I am very vigilant about my doors and it is on my checklist but I have confidence in good design and operation.

If you have an RV-10 and do have doors that you have to wrestle with, please have another builder have a look at them with you to understand what is not right.

It's OK - I have the PlaneAround new door parts and have just finished trimming the doors but have not yet installed any latch parts. :)

I am planning on microswitches for the aft pins but was responding to an earlier comment that recommended magnets/switches on both the forward and aft pins. However it appears that most reported problems occur with the aft pin.

Thanks for the confirmation on the latch efficiency.
 
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Photo of micro switch install

Guys,

I too have had issues with my Vans door switch magnets and ended up just leaving the four(4) sensors wired up and in place but never was able to get them to properly indicate. I.E. as soon as I installed the magnet into the rod I never could get it to trip the switch.

I have an advance flight system EFIS which like Dynon (big surprise) also has a door indication option. Since one of the items on my tweak list is to get the door indicators working. Could one of you who has installed a micro switch post a picture? I might be able to figure it out but would much rather "copy" someone else's work:).

Thanks
 
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