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Question: Riveting Bottom Skins

Stockmanreef

Well Known Member
Before I embark on riveting the bottom skins on, I figured I would ask how to do it. I think that I can figure out the outboard skin, but how the heck do you rivet on the inboard ribs that are close together. Also the plans say to rivet the inboard skin along the rear spar, back half of the ribs, and the J-channel. Do you leave some of the rear spar and ribs so the skin can be pulled back?

Are there any good videos out there on riveting on the bottom skins?

thanks
 
Assuming the -14 wing is similar to the -9, you first put the bottom skin on with about 3 or 4 rows of clecos starting from the rear spar and then moving forward.
You can pull the skin back and get under there to buck. I used some duct tape to help keep it folded back. As you progress row by row forward from the rear spar it gets tighter and tighter to access from the forward edge. You should be able to do the remaining inboard panel rivets under the wing walk by reaching in through the holes in the wing ribs from either side, or use the access panel hole.

If you don't yet have a small tungsten bucking bar, now would be the time to get one. :)
 
I followed Van's riveting instructions to the letter and it worked out for me. If I remember correctly the rivets next to the flap hinge (brackets) were the toughest ones for me.
 
I just installed my bottom outboard skins this week without any helpers. (Quick Build wings)The first one was a real battle but the second one was much easier as I learned how to position myself. My arms took a beating and I noticed after the first one they were bruised up close to my shoulders.
 
Arms

It helps a little to wear long sleeves or cut the toes out of some old tube socks and slide them over your arms.
 
Get some Gorilla tape and string. Make a lanyard so you don't drop the bar.

My preferred method...
Stuff some old towels in the bay you are working in and lay them out on the skin at the bottom (laying on inner surface of top skin). That way, if you do drop the bar the skin is protected (it also gives you something a little nicer for your arm to rest against).
 
I followed Van's riveting instructions to the letter and it worked out for me. If I remember correctly the rivets next to the flap hinge (brackets) were the toughest ones for me.

Maybe I am interpreting the plans wrong:

"Cleco the W-0004L Bottom Invboard Wing Skin to the bottom flange of the rear spar, to the aft half of the wing ribs, and to the wing box J stiffener short."

So the skin is clecoed up to the J-stiffener before you start riveting. It would be much easier to cleco the rear spar, then part of the ribs (not up the j-stiffener).

Not saying easier is the correct way to do it.
 
Maybe I am interpreting the plans wrong:

"Cleco the W-0004L Bottom Invboard Wing Skin to the bottom flange of the rear spar, to the aft half of the wing ribs, and to the wing box J stiffener short."

So the skin is clecoed up to the J-stiffener before you start riveting. It would be much easier to cleco the rear spar, then part of the ribs (not up the j-stiffener).

Not saying easier is the correct way to do it.

You're interpreting it correctly.

The goal is to have the skin clecoed down as much as possible to assure alignment, but still allow access inside.
With it clecoed as described, the skin will pull open enough for the bucking arm can reach in from front towards the back for riveting the J stiffener, and everything aft of that (the reason long sleeves were recommended already). Then the skin can be fully clecoed down, and everything else is accessible from each end, and through the access cover holes.
Do as much as you can on the outboard skin first, then cleco on the inboard skin and repeat.
 
Resurrecting another old thread. I have QB wings. Questions about riveting the outboard bottom wing skins:

1. On page 20-04, the very last instruction is to rivet the overlap joint. I'm confused by this - shouldn't I rivet the aft-most parts of this join sooner, since the skin needs to be rolled back to access for riveting the aft section of skin (as is done on the rest of the skin.

2. How important is the chamfering of skin edges as described on page 16-02? The builders of my QB wing didn't bother to do this on the inboard skin as far as I can tell, and I am not too concerned about the cosmetics. I did ease the forward edges of bottom skins just a bit.
 
Good tips in these post. One more, it is very difficult to inspect the shop head side of some rivets. Press your finger against it for a min. The shop head will make an impression on your fingertip and you can get an idea of its condition from that impression.
 
I got one of those borescopes for $18 which plug straight into the phone. It's been a very useful tool.
 
Resurrecting another old thread. I have QB wings. Questions about riveting the outboard bottom wing skins:

1. On page 20-04, the very last instruction is to rivet the overlap joint. I'm confused by this - shouldn't I rivet the aft-most parts of this join sooner, since the skin needs to be rolled back to access for riveting the aft section of skin (as is done on the rest of the skin.

2. How important is the chamfering of skin edges as described on page 16-02? The builders of my QB wing didn't bother to do this on the inboard skin as far as I can tell, and I am not too concerned about the cosmetics. I did ease the forward edges of bottom skins just a bit.

Great responses in the thread, but still looking for thoughts/suggestions on these two questions..

Thanks
 
Position

I don?t know about others but I could not reach to rivet these skins with the wing flat on a table so I put mine in the slings, used the towel trick to hold the skins apart, then got on my knees and reached in and up. I?m 5-9 and could juuuuust reach all of them. You will need to be able to buck with either hand.
Good luck
Greg Beckner
N557GB reserved
 
I don?t know about others but I could not reach to rivet these skins with the wing flat on a table so I put mine in the slings, used the towel trick to hold the skins apart, then got on my knees and reached in and up. I?m 5-9 and could juuuuust reach all of them. You will need to be able to buck with either hand.
Good luck
Greg Beckner
N557GB reserved

What's the towel trick?
 
I found the RV14 wing skin a little easier to rivet than the -8, or -6 because I believe the wing skin is a little narrower from the main spar flange to the aft spar, so you don't need to have such long arms. Starting at the aft spar in my wing sling and working my way forward (down) while seated in a rolling work chair it wasn't that difficult, especially after you have a few rivets in each rib and don't have to reach in so far.

To Turner - concerning the wing skin overlap joint, I think the reason you wait until the end to rivet this overlap may be because if there's any minor misalignment up to this point, having two lines of rivets allows the most 'forgiveness' without compromising the integrity of the wing structure. It worked well for me anyway.
As far as why chamfer the inboard edge, and why didn't the original builder do that to the inboard section - this is to make it lay down nice and flush after riveting, rather having it look like a piece of bacon (I'm exaggerating). No need to do that on the underlying piece of skin, and as you say, it's cosmetic - and in the bottom of the - low - wing. I did it to all 4 sets of wings I've built because I like the look, and it only took about 60 seconds....
 
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I found the RV14 wing skin a little easier to rivet than the -8, or -6 because I believe the wing skin is a little narrower from the main spar flange to the aft spar, so you don't need to have such long arms. Starting at the aft spar in my wing sling and working my way forward (down) while seated in a rolling work chair it wasn't that difficult, especially after you have a few rivets in each rib and don't have to reach in so far.

To Turner - concerning the wing skin overlap joint, I think the reason you wait until the end to rivet this overlap may be because if there's any minor misalignment up to this point, having two lines of rivets allows the most 'forgiveness' without compromising the integrity of the wing structure. It worked well for me anyway.
As far as why chamfer the inboard edge, and why didn't the original builder do that to the inboard section - this is to make it lay down nice and flush after riveting, rather having it look like a piece of bacon (I'm exaggerating). No need to do that on the underlying piece of skin, and as you say, it's cosmetic - and in the bottom of the - low - wing. I did it to all 4 sets of wings I've built because I like the look, and it only took about 60 seconds....

Scott - this is very helpful. Even though I have long arms, reaching the aft-most rivets in that double row will be very hard if I do it after all other rivets are done -so I may do a few inches of the row before. The "original builder" in this case is Van's QB folks in the Philippines: I have found a few little glitches like this but nothing that can't easily be addressed. Regarding the chamfering, I agree - the cosmetics are not crucial to me. I'm not building a show plane here!
 
Next to the flap bracket?

Ron B. Mentioned this spot but nobody offered a method for this. The problem I see/have is getting a mushroom set close enough to the bracket to set it. Is there a long stem mushroom set or something else to get at this spot? The gun, even with the spring removed is too bulky to fit close enough to the bracket to get on the head of the rivet. Anyone want to share their solution?

Thanks

Jim
 
Ron B. Mentioned this spot but nobody offered a method for this. The problem I see/have is getting a mushroom set close enough to the bracket to set it. Is there a long stem mushroom set or something else to get at this spot? The gun, even with the spring removed is too bulky to fit close enough to the bracket to get on the head of the rivet. Anyone want to share their solution?

Thanks

Jim

Greetings.

It's possible with a mushroom set, but it's tough to do. When I caused a dent in that area, I tried using a [URL="http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005VR4XK0/"]12" long backrivet set[/URL] on the manufactured head to clear the flap bracket, yet caused another dent. I put those rivet sets aside in favor of another approach...

I used a longer flush rivet set when I did my bottom skins. This is a 5.5" flush set with a 5/8" surface obtained used from Yardstore. They don't appear to carry it any more, but it looks like Brown Tool has the 5.5" flush set. Yardstore also 3.5" and 7.5" long flush sets. The latter is probably too short as it may not fully clear the bracket.



Here I am riveting the left outboard bracket with that 5.5" long straight rivet set.



 
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Edit-

I had an offset cup set and I had already ground for another issue so I prepared that for this task, but. I ended up removing the retainer spring from the 3X gun and used a mushroom set WHITHOUT a rubber guard so I could get as close to the flap bracket. This worked okay, not ideal but good enough. I would want just a bit better or easier method if this were on top.

Jim
 
That?s cool

Is it me but Emerit?s technique looked good but the fact he got to build inside the house is more amazing to me.
 
Same problem on the RV-10 and RV-14. This is what I did and recommend:
- Take a 1/2” x 1” or so piece of .125 aluminum, run the edges over your scotchbrite wheel.
- Drill a #30 hole biased to one side. Use your deburring tool to make a small countersink on one side. Insert a just slight linger round head rivet and set so that the shop head is flush with the back side of the aluminum. Buff smooth.
- Add clear packing tape on the back side.
- Tape your now finished custom rivet tool over the rivet you want to set. Have the round head right over it.
- Use your long round head rivet set and drive the rivet.
- Repeat as needed.

Carl
 
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Don’t throw away that custom rivet tool. I’ll rent it from you for a six pack of Sierra Nevada......
 
Same problem on the RV-10 and RV-14. This is what I did and recommend:
- Take a 1/2? x 1? or so piece of .125 aluminum, run the edges over your scotchbrite wheel.
- Drill a #30 hole biased to one side. Use your deburring tool to make a small countersink on one side. Insert a just slight linger round head rivet and set so that the shop head is flush with the back side of the aluminum. Buff smooth.
- Add clear packing tape on the back side.
- Tape your now finished custom rivet tool over the rivet you want to set. Have the round head right over it.
- Use your long round head rivet set and drive the rivet.
- Repeat as needed.

Carl
Now that is out of the box thinking!
 
Same problem on the RV-10 and RV-14. This is what I did and recommend:
- Take a 1/2? x 1? or so piece of .125 aluminum, run the edges over your scotchbrite wheel.
- Drill a #30 hole biased to one side. Use your deburring tool to make a small countersink on one side. Insert a just slight linger round head rivet and set so that the shop head is flush with the back side of the aluminum. Buff smooth.
- Add clear packing tape on the back side.
- Tape your now finished custom rivet tool over the rivet you want to set. Have the round head right over it.
- Use your long round head rivet set and drive the rivet.
- Repeat as needed.

Carl
Carl, I am having a hard time visualizing the above. Do you have a photo you can share re the above.

Thanks.
 
Same problem on the RV-10 and RV-14. This is what I did and recommend:
- Take a 1/2? x 1? or so piece of .125 aluminum, run the edges over your scotchbrite wheel.
- Drill a #30 hole biased to one side. Use your deburring tool to make a small countersink on one side. Insert a just slight linger round head rivet and set so that the shop head is flush with the back side of the aluminum. Buff smooth.
- Add clear packing tape on the back side.
- Tape your now finished custom rivet tool over the rivet you want to set. Have the round head right over it.
- Use your long round head rivet set and drive the rivet.
- Repeat as needed.

That is absolutely brilliant! Wish I'd thought of it before doing my bottom wing skins. Mine came out OK (they'll look fine under paint!), but undoubtedly not as nice as yours. Great idea!
 
Riviting Bottom Skin

On the road but will take photos of making one. Think really simple and you will be there.

Carl

Carl, thanks. I am trying to visualize your tool but I must be looking the wrong way. Having a photo will help me understand how you make the tool. Can you take photos of the tool's top, bottom and other if needed? This is my first build and I struggle to visualize properly!

Thanks.
 
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