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Cross-Wind Landings

mbauer

Well Known Member
Crosswind Landings

Kind of curious what is the max X-Wind landings you've made. Questioning angle on the nose as well as highest wind speed?

Be interesting to see nose dragger vs., tail dragger....

Also for the TW if it was a wheel landing or 3-pointer...

I bought a flying RV-6, just learning to fly it (58-hours since Mar 2017), and have avoided most x-winds so far, in other words 30 deg from the right at 11kts for me. This was a 3-pointer of sorts....Wing low, rudder to maintain centerline, no flaps.

Best regards,
Mike Bauer
 
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Crosswind Landings

Hi Mike,

The most wind I've landed in with my RV-4 was 15G20KT, 90 deg to the runway. I used a wheel landing. Normally I like to keep it to 10KT or so of direct x-wind.

It was pretty sporty, but the airplane was reusable and thus the landing was a total success.
 
I landed my -6A ONCE with a 15 knot direct crosswind. I consider that my max and do not want to do it again. Nothing broke, nothing bent, just more of a handful than I want.
 
The AWOS said direct 17 G 24 one day. I said I'd give it one shot and try an alternate. I think I found a brief lull between gusts and got it on the ground safely in a 3 point landing without scaring myself.

I don't believe I'm capable of 17 G 24 in the RV-6. Fifteen steady is probably more like it.
 
I think it's very hard to get accurate numbers on this, because what the AWOS reports and what you land in may be very different. I have landed my 9A when the AWOS was reporting x-wind of 18G22, however I went around twice, and when I did put it down, I believe it was probably in a lull and more like 14-15. Also, the wind 50' above the runway is often a good bit more than on the surface - I have been on approaches where the EFIS indicated 20 knot crosswind on final, prepared to go around, but once I crossed the threshold, it seemed much, much less.

The huge rudder on the 9/9A helps a lot in a crosswind.

Chris
 
When I was getting checked out for my tail wheel endorsement, the winds were 060 at 15 gusting to 25. I did 11 taxi back 3 pointers. This was in my RV6. Every approach was spot on, every touchdown scared the bejesus out of me. My instructor didn't make the slightest move to take the stick. I never saw anyone that brave. For 2 days I thought I bought the wrong airplane. I was scared to death of the plane. My instructor told me that I did everything needed to keep the plane under control. I took the plane up a couple of days later in calm winds and had my confidence restored. I put over 800 hours on my first RV, loving every minute. My advice-don't think you have complete control until you have completed 100 successful landings. After that, be just as careful and alert as if it was your first. Fly safe.
 
It was ugly..

I landed my -4 when ATIS was indicating 18 G 24 direct Xwind at KINT, and fortunately the runway is very wide! I chose a 3 point, and it worked OK, but I had some thrilling moments. Real kicker is I could have chosen runway that was perfectly into wind, however we were "2 Ship" with a friend in his P-51, and he wanted the longer runway..both of us regretted the choice after landing!
 
I am one of those crazy people that actually like doing crosswinds and I'll occasionally go search them out to play in them. The highest I've gotten was 24 knots cross component in my 9A, and that was getting a little sketchy. 15 knots is no big deal with the big rudder on the 9A, 20 starts to get a little sporty.
 
coming home from a long cross country I did something like 23G33 at about 70 degrees according to AWOS, but I don't think it was that bad at touchdown. It was super gusty and bumpy down final with large power changes to stay on glideslope, with my nervous mother in the passenger seat mind you. Just when I was about to say screw it and go to the airport 20 miles away with a crosswind runway, The wind and bumps steadied out about 50 AGL and I was able to do a surprisingly smooth wheel landing.

For me it's mostly about the gust factor, I'd personally rather land in 25 knots of crosswind than 15G25.
 
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Open the cross wind envelope slowly, Mike.

Don't make decision based on what others have done. See what you feel comfortable with.

Everyone one of us has limitations, we need find what they are.

Certainly don't want to take on 25 knots just because someone else survived it.

FWITW never do it with any tail wind...that's like an 11th commandment.
 
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I am one of those crazy people that actually like doing crosswinds and I'll occasionally go search them out to play in them. The highest I've gotten was 24 knots cross component in my 9A, and that was getting a little sketchy. 15 knots is no big deal with the big rudder on the 9A, 20 starts to get a little sporty.
So there are people like me! It's a badge of honor making a sweet crosswind landing riding down the runway on one wheel as long as you can hold it. I believe tailwheel (RV) is easier really, with a steerable steering wheel in addition to brakes and rudder. 20-25 kts steady cross is pushing the comfort limits.
 
Open the cross wind envelope slowly, Mike.

Don't make decision based on what others have done. See what you feel comfortable with.

Everyone one of us has limitations, we need find what they are.

Certainly don't want to take on 25 knots just because someone else survived it.

FWITW never do it with any tail wind...that's like an 11th commandment.

Sound advice.
You can practice cross wind landings even without a crosswind.
Pick a side and learn to land on the "upwind" wheel. Switch sides so you don't get "handed". Try it both three point and wheelies.
The machine is limited by its rudder authority. The pilot is limited by his skill. You can only effect one of those.
 
With my commuting requirements, I am presented with undesirable wind on a frequent basis. The experience has made me a much better crosswind pilot. With that, an AWOS of 18G24 is a non issue. Did that last Friday though the remains of Harvey. IFR from take off until landing base leg to break into the clear blue. (No approach to log :mad:)

While I do not exactly remember the AWOS in one instance (it was something like 22G30 but don't hold me to that) I do remember very well that I was using full rudder on that landing. The wind was from the right so I was banked to the right and had the left rudder booted has hard as I could manage. With that steep bank and left leg force, I was sliding out of my seat (belted 5 point) into the passenger seat. Of course, there was a commuter jet on the taxiway watching. :rolleyes:

I have come to prefer the slip rather than crab/kick.
 
I am not sure what the actual numbers are I landed at certainly north of 20kts.

As others have stated what AWOS etc. reports and what is actually real at the instance of touch down are often quite different things in particular if you have gusts but my conventional gear instructor gave me a simple rule of thump that works well.

If on short final you can keep your airplane lined up with the runway with rudder then land. If not then don't and find an airport at which you can.

Has worked so far and is much more accurate then any instrument I have ever had... .

Oliver
 
Steady Crosswind

For me, a steady crosswind with a full windsock is not that bad in an RV due to excellent control authority. What bites is the gusting ever-changing direction winds especially when it's a direct crosswind one moment and the next it's a quartering tail wind.

Once On takeoff in my -3, I got a full windsock gust quartering tailwind right after I pushed the throttle to firewall. Gust plus p-factor = trouble in certified plane. On that day, I was glad that the runway was 150ft wide and the performance of the -3 was, well, spectacular.

In my book, the best plane for winds is an RV. But hey, I'm slightly biased.
 
32 knot direct crosswind in my -9 taildragger.

It was a 150 foot wide runway, I touched down on the centerline, and got it stopped before going off the left side. The -9 was skipping on the upwind wheel and after I got the tail down, the thing kept trying to weather vain into the wind.

The tower was stunned, as was I.

RV's are the easiest taildraggers to fly. Don't let the fear of crosswind landings keep you from building the plane you want.

As for technique, I use full flaps, regardless of the wind, and wheel it on one wheel at a time; upwind wheel, downwind wheel, and finally tailwheel. The -9 may be a bit of a challenge compared to your -6 due to its long high lift wing but the larger rudder probably gives you more control.
 
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32 knot direct crosswind in my -9 taildragger.

It was a 150 foot wide runway, I touched down on the centerline, and got it stopped before going off the left side. The -9 was skipping on the upwind wheel and after I got the tail down, the thing kept trying to weather vain into the wind.

The tower was stunned, as was I.

RV's are the easiest taildraggers to fly. Don't let the fear of crosswind landings keep you from building the plane you want.

As for technique, I use full flaps, regardless of the wind, and wheel it on one wheel at a time; upwind wheel, downwind wheel, and finally tailwheel. The -9 may be a bit of a challenge compared to your -6 due to its long high lift wing but the larger rudder probably gives you more control.
Bill - you have a -9, 150' wide runway, 30 kt wind... Just land across the runway!!
 
Kind of curious what is the max X-Wind landings you've made. Questioning angle on the nose as well as highest wind speed?

It really depends on how you define "landing".

I returned to home base one day with wind 19G26 directly across the runway after tumbling over a college campus and airport hangars. I was able to taxi the plane back to the hangar under its own power but I would consider the end of the flight to be an "arrival" rather than a landing due to the interesting angles and noises associated with the event. As to whether it was a wheelie or three point the answer is "yes".

15K straight across requires the rudder to be fully deflected on my RV-6 if the nose is to be aligned with the dotted line.
 
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Fuel on up-wing tank. Not fullest.

With strong crosswind, and steep bank angle there is a serious risk of fuel starvation due to un-porting if you are on the low wing tank. So the fullest tank rule isn't always a good idea.

Prop will stop going over the fence, and you are left with a dead stick landing in a high-pucker situation.

Ask me how I know! ( But maybe the best Xwind landing I've ever made )

Roger
 
You need to set your limits. I learned mine 55 years ago in my first solo flight in a Piper colt. I was slowly drifted off the runway. My thoughts were "no big deal" until I hit the soft dirt and I very slowly ended up upside down.
 
It really depends on how you define "landing".

I returned to home base one day with wind 19G26 directly across the runway after tumbling over a college campus and airport hangars. I was able to taxi the plane back to the hangar under its own power but I would consider the end of the flight to be an "arrival" rather than a landing due to the interesting angles and noises associated with the event. As to whether it was a wheelie or three point the answer is "yes".

15K straight across requires the rudder to be fully deflected on my RV-6 if the nose is to be aligned with the dotted line.

15K is the number for my 6 as well (judged by wind sock not just reported) but I have made more than a few "arrivals" beyond that and managed to keep the airplane intact.
We are blessed with sturdy gear and a locking tailwheel, but it isn't going to be pretty if your not straight and you can't be straight if you run out of rudder.
 
A very experienced mature pilot told me years ago that "style points don't count with rowdy cross-wind landings, just keep the plane rolling the same direction as the center line". :)
 
Bill - you have a -9, 150' wide runway, 30 kt wind... Just land across the runway!!
I don't think the tower would have liked that, but it was an option.

With strong crosswind, and steep bank angle there is a serious risk of fuel starvation due to un-porting if you are on the low wing tank. So the fullest tank rule isn't always a good idea.

Prop will stop going over the fence, and you are left with a dead stick landing in a high-pucker situation.

Ask me how I know! ( But maybe the best Xwind landing I've ever made )

Roger

Crab and then slip at the end.
 
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Open the cross wind envelope slowly, Mike.

Don't make decision based on what others have done. See what you feel comfortable with.

Everyone one of us has limitations, we need find what they are.

Certainly don't want to take on 25 knots just because someone else survived it.

FWITW never do it with any tail wind...that's like an 11th commandment.

Thank you for the sage advice!

New to the tail wheel and RV6. Have rented/flown C150, C152, C172, and a C175 converted to tail wheel, used to own a Cherokee 140, rented/flown Piper Warrior, Tomahawk, Seminole., Beech Duchess and a Money MK20 are other time builders.

Have landed the Cherokee with 60 deg @ 22kt30ktG, which wasn't that big of an issue. Find myself slowly building confidence, question was too see what I can expect as I learn more.

For now, if the gusts are more than 5kt difference, that is enough for me. Have lots of practice ahead to get really good.

Want to say Thank you to all for your input.

Best regards,
Mike Bauer
 
You are in alaska...

I see you are in alaska. Good advice. I fly to Colorado quite a bit and the winds are calm to ridiculous. You will likely have the same.

I got to know the RV back in texas and tried out the cross winds a little bit at a time. I also use flaps regardless of the crosswind, but I have also settled on using a crab most of the time too. In Ground effect, as I flare, I "straighten" it out. This has worked well in high winds. Gusting is a hit or miss scenario that requires some patience and being ok with going around 2 or 3 time or what ever it takes to get down. It is important to recognize you have settled into a tail wind too. It looks like you have a bunch of experience flying, so I'm betting you get it figured out pretty quick. Be safe and enjoy your RV. They are a lot of fun.
 
I have 2500+ taildragger hours and in the RV8 feel very comfortable (watchfull but routine) with up to 15 direct crosswind. I will fly 15-20 gusting up to 25 routinely, but feel it should be handled with experience.

Learned to fly in a Cessna 140. My instructor, from Oklahoma, would train in high wind conditions and say "if you can't fly in this you can't fly in Oklahoma". So, crosswinds were a common training condition. Have landed with crosswinds in the 40's in the 8 and 180. Landing in these conditions can become necessary on long crosscountry trips, especially in the past (or New Mexico) with fewer in cockpit weather resources.

So, there are many tricks to crosswinds. Heavy winds requiring one to open the bag of tricks.

1. Forget the centerline. Everytime I here someone mention maintaining centerline during heavy crosswinds I know they have no real heavy crosswind experience. You cut the crosswind component by landing at an angle to the centerline. The heavier the wind the more angle can be cut. Touchdown at the corner of the runway and watchout for lights and signs. In any small GA plane there will be suprisingly little rollout. Do not add any airspeed on final, only add 1/2 the gust factor.
2. I prefer to crab into the roundout and dip the wing. Momentum will keep you tracking staight, but things must be timed to limit the time just above the runway to 1 or 2 seconds. Any longer will make it tougher to keep a drift from developing.
3. When learning to fly in crosswinds a forward slip all the way down final is a good way to judge rudder authority (or lack of), but as one gets more experienced the crab angle will do the same thing. With experience the angle will give a good indication of what is happpening. Usually it gets better the lower you get. You can kick into a slip once in a while, from a crab, to help judge the rudder travel needed. If using a long forward slip always be conscious of the fuel tank selected, having it on the high wing.
4. In the air the crosswind will drift you downwind. On the ground the crosswind will weathervane you into the wind. Both must be considered.
5. When taking off in a crosswind, all things being equal, always take the right cross wind. The right crosswind will take less right rudder, you may not have enough with a heavy left cross. This is especially true in the large tailed RV's and the 180. Start the roll lined up between the downwind side of the runway and the centerline, pointed down the runway. This will give more room for any possible weathervaning.
6. Taxing in heavy winds can be a real challenge. I have had to do a 270 degree turn to get off the runway. Always use correct control positions. Set the DG bug to the wind direction and visualize where the controls should be, this includes the elevator. Sometimes the elevator should be neutralized or even stick forward with a heavy wind from the rear.
7. Land on the downwind side of the runway. After touchdown the wind can weathervane the plane into the wind and there will be more room to let it go some. After touchdown drift will not be the problem.
8. Instead of slip or crab one can fly final at an angle into the wind. Timed correctly you go from the angle, into the roundout, to no drift, then touchdown. Takes good timing. Learned that from a high time cropduster pilot. Fun, but not for most.
9. Land on a taxiway if you have to. I never have landed on one, but should have taken off on one once.
10.Sneak up on heavier winds and build ones experience. They are nothing to be scared of, but require respect and experience. Get an experienced insructor.
11. The outcome should never be in question.

George Meketa
Rv8, Cessna 180, PIper PA12, N35 Bonanza (all at the same time)
 
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9. Land on a taxiway if you have to. I never have landed on one, but should have taken off on one once.
So you've been to Rock Springs, Wyoming, too? ! ;)

Seriously, your remarks are some of the best technique comments I've read on this board.
 
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Will give crab or angle approach a try

George, Excellent advice and summary. I always landed the Mooney with angle into the wind, and rolled out at the moment of touchdown.

The 9 and the 8 have so much rudder authority that I have been slipping from quite a ways out. I'll give the crab or angle approach a try. Our airport is KAEJ at Buena Vista Colorado at 8000 msl, and only a few miles east of the 14,000 foot peaks so cross winds get interesting.

Roger Bloomfield
N51BL RV8 90 hours
RV9A 400 hours
 
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