What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Low MP3 Player Output

Low Pass

Low Pass

Well Known Member
Friend
None of the three MP3 players I've tried in my plane (with a PS Engineering intercom) provide enough volume to hear music clearly while flying. This brings me to needing an amplifier, I think. I sure don't want to have to add components if I don't have to.

Are there any other ideas folks have used to boost the output of the intercoms or MP3 players? Right now I've got a little audio amplifier kit from Fry's I'm planning to use to boost the intercom aux input.
 
Bryan, I don't have an MP3 player but do use a Sony Discman with my PS1000II intercom. It seems like I have had low levels when using the line output. Lots of times I will plug into the headset output and turn the discman volume up high... using the discman as the amp.

Like I said, I don't have an MP3 player so I'm not sure if this would work for you.

Karl
 
Bryan,

Perhaps a silly question, but are you using the "music input" to the intercom, or one of the other inputs? In talking to the PS Eng folks, I found that the music input is amplified, where the others are not. I had to move my Garmin from "NAV1" to the music input to be able to get enough volume on the XM radio.

Cheers,
Rusty
 
I talked to PS about the same problem. I have a low-end PS audio panel, and there is no gain adjustment for the audio input, so no internal amplification to help out there. The problem that they pointed out to me is that the really small MP3 players are very low voltage, so they just can't put out much oomph. The disc players generally can do much better because they have to have more voltage and power anyways to drive their motors. I have a 30-Gig Ipod, and it is marginally acceptable. My 396 XM audio is much better, but I still have to use the volume up at a high level. One of these days, I'll get an audio panel with a gain on the input....

Paul
 
I think I posted this here before, go get a "boostaroo" - http://www.boostaroo.com/ I guess what we need to do it gang up on the company and see if they will make a remote powered version as everyone (especially with the Garmin audio panels) needs one...
 
I have been there and done that. Sorry, but if you have a low end, non-amplified PS Engineering intercom, NONE of the suggestions listed will fix your problem entirely.

Buy a Boostaroo? Did it. Want to buy it from me? It didn't fix the problem.

Send the unit back to PSE for a fix? Did it. Didn't do a thing.

Change MP/3 player to an iPod? Did it. Didn't fix it.

So how did I fix the problem. Well, what I WANTED to do is rip the PSE intercom from my panel and replace it with an audio panel, which does have a built-in amplifier. But what I did was trade in my headsets for a set that has a music input built into the power box of the headsets. I use LightSPEED thirty 3Gs. One wire and bam, music works great.

This has been one of my most aggravating problems to solve. You would think someone would make some compatable units with 12V power to fix this but I'm here to tell you, I could not find a simple, inexpensive way to fix it.
 
Which PS Engineering Intercomm do you have? I never had any luck with the "II" models, but with both the 6000 in my RV-6 and the 7000CD in my RV-10, music inputs are really great. In the 10 I can use the in-dash CD player, or through a switched jack on the front instrument panel, I also use my XM satellite radio or my IPOD. With both external devices, the volume control is usually set to about 1/3 volume using Bose X headsets.
If you have the II model, the previously-mentioned fix of using a headset such as the Lightspeed with music/cellphone input directly to the headset is probably the only answer. :(

Vic
 
I bought the PIE Line Driver per Jamie's suggestion because it works off 12V power. Haven't installed it yet because I've been working other bugs on the plane.

I also bought a USB powered Boostaroo. It can take 5V - so what I thought was tapping off my EIS 4000 for the 5V. Anyone tried this? My only concern would be engine noise in the lines??
 
vic syracuse said:
Which PS Engineering Intercomm do you have? I never had any luck with the "II" models, but with both the 6000 in my RV-6 and the 7000CD in my RV-10, music inputs are really great. In the 10 I can use the in-dash CD player, or through a switched jack on the front instrument panel, I also use my XM satellite radio or my IPOD. With both external devices, the volume control is usually set to about 1/3 volume using Bose X headsets.
If you have the II model, the previously-mentioned fix of using a headset such as the Lightspeed with music/cellphone input directly to the headset is probably the only answer. :(

Vic
Click to expand...
Thanks for all the great responses. I have a fairly old PM501 (7-8 yrs). I also talked with the factory also getting the suggestion that I have the intercom modified to provide more gain. I'm not real wild about pulling it out (meaning I have to pull the panel and ground the plane!! No bueno!) and handing it over to some avionics shop/black hole for a modification.

Looks like I might opt for a built in amplifier. One like the small home-made device (link above) that is attached behind the panel and powered of the AC system.

The in-line solutions just don't appeal to me very much. I am kind of averse to lots of wires and boxes floating around the cockpit. Just me, but thanks for the ideas.

As for the Lightspeed headsets, spending that kind of money (>$50) is not a good plan for my health right now after some other recent electronics purchases. Wife would completely flip!

But will definitely consider other suggestions. Gotta have some good tunes playing while flying.
 
Last edited:
Garmin Audio

Will any of these systems work with the Garmin 340 Audio?

I am curious if it will work for my wife's IPod.
Thanks,

Pat Garboden
Ozark, MO
 
I forgot to mention that I also bought a buld-it-yourself amplifier kit which runs off of 12 volts. I never got around to trying it so went with a Boostaroo instead to see if the amp would work. I have a PS3000, which is a newer model than your 501 and I just could not get anything to work.

Do at least me a favor would you? If you solve this problem, detail out how you did it and what products you bought to get it done. I couldn't find this info anywhere when I tried to solve my problem. In the end I had two choices, change headsets or change intercoms.
 
gorbak said:
Will any of these systems work with the Garmin 340 Audio?

I am curious if it will work for my wife's IPod.
Thanks,

Pat Garboden
Ozark, MO
Click to expand...
Newer audio panels have built-in amplifiers for personal music devices like iPods and MP/3 players. If you plug into the music input jack, it should work provided you have a late model audio panel, which I would think the 340 is. It is best to check with the install manual to verify.
 
Thank you Randy

Since I am at my office instead of the shop, your input answers my question. Yes, this is a new, in-the-box Garmin 340. Hope this is the ticket.

Pat Garboden
Ozark, MO
 
Low Pass said:
None of the three MP3 players I've tried in my plane (with a PS Engineering intercom) provide enough volume to hear music clearly while flying. This brings me to needing an amplifier, I think. I sure don't want to have to add components if I don't have to.

Are there any other ideas folks have used to boost the output of the intercoms or MP3 players? Right now I've got a little audio amplifier kit from Fry's I'm planning to use to boost the intercom aux input.
Click to expand...

Bryan--

This same issue has come up in the Cirrus community, and is reported to be caused by an impedance mismatch which can be corrected with a handful of relatively inexpensive parts.

I don't personally have the expertise to design one, but an enterprising Cirrus owner builds and sells them cheap here

I haven't found the need for one (my audio seems fine in both the Cirrus and RV) but others report success.

HTH
 
flyeyes said:
<SNIP>
I don't personally have the expertise to design one, but an enterprising Cirrus owner builds and sells them cheap here
<SNIP>
Click to expand...
Thanks for the link, I had a look at the website...

That unit looks neat, easy, low part count, no external power, but being purely passive 'transformer' based, I don't think you'll get 'Hi Fi' quality sound out of it though. If you just want to up the volume I think it might work.

I like to hear what people think of the music quality before and after.

Regards
Rudi
 
RudiGreyling said:
Thanks for the link, I had a look at the website...

That unit looks neat, easy, low part count, no external power, but being purely passive 'transformer' based, I don't think you'll get 'Hi Fi' quality sound out of it though. If you just want to up the volume I think it might work.

I like to hear what people think of the music quality before and after.

Regards
Rudi
Click to expand...
If I want Hi-Fi, I'm sure not going to look for it (or get it) in a high-noise environment like a GA aircraft. The best way to get good audio in loud environments is with an in-ear monitor (IEM). Many manufacturers are starting to make "headsets" of the IEM variety (e.g., clarity aloft), which might be useful. Add to this that most MP3 players use lossy codecs (MP3, AAC, etc) and not lossless codecs (FLAC) and you're going to have a mediocre solution at best.

So, you can put the best electronics in your stack, but if you've still got that O-360 / -540 etc. up front turning (it is still turning, right?), you're going to be hard pressed to get good audio.

That said, is the iPod or XM through the PS intercom good enough for flying? I suppose so, but I don't fret over it since I'm not going to get it close to perfect.
 
Inherent sound quality

I'm glad you brought that aspect up, Doug. I don't own an MP3 player, largely because most I've listened to sounded pretty bad, even with decent quality earbuds. Is it practical to store the songs digitally in a higher quality format, and if so, can anyone point to specific players and/or codecs? I like my tunes, but sure don't feel like trading off quality for quantity.
 
My iPod, through my LighSPEED ANR headsets, sounds every bit as good as it does sitting in my living room. Really.
 
The quality of MP3 recordings is variable. If you want higher quality, use files encoded at a higher bit rate. Obviously this results in larger files, but you can still get a lot of music in your player of choice. MP3 files are not inherently poor quality. The fact that the record companies went suicidal over people swapping MP3s for free over the internet is proof of that.

erich weaver
 
the_other_dougreeves said:
If I want Hi-Fi, I'm sure not going to look for it (or get it) in a high-noise environment like a GA aircraft. The best way to get good audio in loud environments is with an in-ear monitor (IEM). Many manufacturers are starting to make "headsets" of the IEM variety (e.g., clarity aloft), which might be useful. Add to this that most MP3 players use lossy codecs (MP3, AAC, etc) and not lossless codecs (FLAC) and you're going to have a mediocre solution at best.

So, you can put the best electronics in your stack, but if you've still got that O-360 / -540 etc. up front turning (it is still turning, right?), you're going to be hard pressed to get good audio.

That said, is the iPod or XM through the PS intercom good enough for flying? I suppose so, but I don't fret over it since I'm not going to get it close to perfect.
Click to expand...


Hi Doug,

I should have said that you will get quality sound loss through that Passive unit mentioned, not the same as directly plugged in. So it will not sound the same High Fedility as if it were plugged in directly. No matter what the original quality was.

Like I said, I have not experienced that unit, but the low part count and no battery is cool. The quality might be acceptable at the price, I don't know.

Me I'd like to make sure I don't get any unnessary losses in any case, in case of Boosteroo, +/- $20 buys you a better unit, looking at the specs.

But that is just me.

Rudi
 
Last edited:
Garmin 340 & MP3 Player

Guys,

I have a Creative Labs Nomad MP3 player and a Garmin 340 audio panel. When I was using Lightspeed ANR headsets the music came through just barely loud enough when I set the MP3 volume at max (25) on the readout.

I switched to Quiet Technologies Halo headsets and now we have to turn the MP3 down to 21 or 22 so it's not TOO loud. :eek:

Just my 2 cents on the subject. :)
 
I bought the Radio Shack headphone amplifier for $25 and it offers about 30% greater volume. Brings the volume in my big, home stereo headphone up to a high, comfortable level with no detectable distortion (subjective guess). Will try in the plane this weekend.

I've also ordered the impedence matching transformer sold by the Cirrus guy (linked above). Was told it'll ship from Kalifornia this morning. That'll put it here mid-next week with no interruptions.

Lots of gambles going on here, but with all the variability in what people some are reporting working but others say doesn't work, impedence mismatch is beginning to rise on my list of correction items.

Will post more as I get info.
 
Low Pass said:
Are there any other ideas folks have used to boost the output of the intercoms or MP3 players?
Click to expand...
Bryan,

My Creative MP3 player produced very low output when fed into the "recorder input" of my Softcomm ATC-2P intercom. I used a tiny audio transformer (8 ohms to 1000 ohms) to more closely match the low-impedance output of the MP3 player to the relatively high-impedance input of the intercom. Problem solved.

--
Joe
 
$8-$12 electronic kits

Low Pass said:
I bought the Radio Shack headphone amplifier for $25 and it offers about 30% greater volume. Will post more as I get info.
Click to expand...
I just saw those at radio shack, in store. Could not find it online in their catalog.

You can make a little electronic kit mini mono or stereo amp for less than $10 (runs on ship power 5-18v)

http://store.qkits.com/moreinfo.cfm/QK107
http://store.qkits.com/moreinfo.cfm/QK139
http://store.qkits.com/moreinfo.cfm/QK87
http://store.qkits.com/moreinfo.cfm/QK17
http://www.hobbytron.com/CK122.html
http://www.electrokits.com/electronics/amplifiers/2.htm
 
Last edited:
Matching Transformers

I have had the same problem with my MP3 player (Cell Phone). After reading this link I went to Radio Shack and bought 2 audio transformers. They are about ? inch square in size. Needed two as the output is stereo and I needed to mix down to mono. Made the appropriate cable for the phone with the transformers in line and the problem was solved. Prior to installing the matching transformers I would have to turn the volume on the MP3 player all the way to max just to hear it, now more that 1/3 volume is almost too much. Total cost $5 - $6 bucks and it is passive so I don?t need batteries. Quality is good. No worse than the cassette adaptor I use in the car. Took about an hour to make.
 
Sound Qualty

"That unit looks neat, easy, low part count, no external power, but being purely passive 'transformer' based, I don't think you'll get 'Hi Fi' quality sound out of it though. If you just want to up the volume I think it might work."

This may be true to some degree when using cheap transformers, but matching transformers will not degrade the sound quality much as they are designed for this type of application. Some of the highest cost, top of the line audio amplifiers use audio output transformers. IE Macintosh Amps.
 
[email protected] said:
I have had the same problem with my MP3 player (Cell Phone). After reading this link I went to Radio Shack and bought 2 audio transformers. They are about ? inch square in size. Needed two as the output is stereo and I needed to mix down to mono. Made the appropriate cable for the phone with the transformers in line and the problem was solved. Prior to installing the matching transformers I would have to turn the volume on the MP3 player all the way to max just to hear it, now more that 1/3 volume is almost too much. Total cost $5 - $6 bucks and it is passive so I don?t need batteries. Quality is good. No worse than the cassette adaptor I use in the car. Took about an hour to make.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info, John. Can you confirm the part numbers you bought from Radio Shack?



I bought the impedence matching module sold by the Cirrus guy linked earlier in this thread. Very nicely packaged unit arrived just as advertised. It boosts the available volume by 30-40% based on subjective ground observation. I was using a Sandisk MP3 player with the PS501 intercom. Have not flown with it yet.

I also bought a 9-volt audio amp kit from Frys for $9.99. It works pretty well in flight. Volume boosted up to a reasonable, mid level, but when it approached a moderately high level it became badly distorted.

After I finish a panel modification,my next step will be to try the impedence matching device and the amp in series.
 
Part Number

I think they are 2.99 each. Conect the 8 ohm side to the MP3 player half of the 1000 ohm side goes to the audio input (transformer is center tapped on the 1000 ohm side. To mix two channels I just ran the 1000 ohm side in seires.

Model: EI-19 | Catalog #: 273-1380

Hope this helps

John
 
Pictures

[email protected] said:
I think they are 2.99 each. Conect the 8 ohm side to the MP3 player half of the 1000 ohm side goes to the audio input (transformer is center tapped on the 1000 ohm side. To mix two channels I just ran the 1000 ohm side in seires.

Model: EI-19 | Catalog #: 273-1380 Hope this helps John
Click to expand...
John could you draw a little picture, schematic just to be sure. I am retarded when it comes to transformers.

"To mix two channels I just ran the 1000 ohm side in series" confused me. Series? Parallel? Not sure. I also assume you did not use the center tap. Thanks George
 
Last edited:
Drawing of matching transformer

Hope this works for you.

my.php

Good Luck
 
Hey John,

Thanks very much for the impedance matching info. I installed it today, and FINALLY solved my Garmin 496 XM radio issues :D

Previously, I had severe static noise when trying to run both channels of the 496 into the mono input on my PMA-4000, at a volume loud enough to hear in flight. That was almost full volume, but now, I can't even turn it up past 1/3 volume without risking brain damage :p

Thanks again,
Rusty
 
MP3

Glad I could help. Where are you located. I have an RV6A and did not want any more battery operated items in the plane so this works great for me. I am using a cell phone / mp3 player so I have conected the mic input also. Lets me make phone calls from the plane, realy handy on the ground. I fly to Canada often and it lets me call customs, weather and FFS with out removing my head set.
 
[email protected] said:
Glad I could help. Where are you located.
Click to expand...

Hi John,

I'm in the FL panhandle, near Pensacola. The location is in the upper right corner on my posts, so I don't bother putting it in the signature.

No further XM radio testing today, because the weather's stinky. I hope you can say "stinky" on this forum :p

Cheers,
Rusty (already working toward the next project)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top