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RV-10 Air Conditioner

KatanaPilot

Well Known Member
Assume please for the purposes of this discussion that I am going to install an air conditioner in my under construction RV-10.

I would be interested to hear from those who have already done this. Specifically your feedback both pro and con about the particular system you installed, pitfalls to avoid and what you might do differently next time.

Thanks.
 
I'm really curious what feedback this post will get you. I installed AC in mine, the engine driven compressor kind with a bottom scoop from Airflow Systems. Just got done removing the last of the hoses from the tunnel at my last condition inspection.
When it worked it worked great and it was awesome to have, but considering how much time, effort and money i invested into it, it was definitely a bad idea.
The compressor mount and belt system was not engineered correctly. It kept on stripping the cogs from the belts. I had to remove the prop a few times to change belts. The last belt I had worked great but when I removed the cowling 90% of the cogs were gone from the belt.
Bill was great to work with, he always remedied the problems quickly. He machined a whole new flywheel that takes a 4 groove serpentine belt, with a different type of tensioner and that should have fixed the problems. The new fix came with a new compressor that was sticking out an inch further forward for which i would have had to put a bigger bump on the cowling. I just ran out of steam at that point. Got frustrated one day and just removed the whole thing. Feels good not to have to remove the cowling between oil changes to check on the stupid belt.
A nice side effect is that my prop safety wiring job started looking a lot better ;)
It seems I wasn't alone with the belt-breaking adventures either. I wasn't the first guy who installed this thing and for some reason everyone seemed happy with their setup.
So, it's awesome to have when it works, but consider the work involved, the weight penalty (50+ lbs), the complexity in the tunnel, and also a slight (?) speed penalty from the condenser scoop.

Lenny
 
I bought a flying one with A/C from Flightline A/C.

Apparently mine is an older system, where they have the belt run through a tensioner on both compressor and alternator sides. One of the tensioners failed and I spent a few months looking for a proper replacement. Finally, I thought about asking John if he had a replacement. He did not but he did have some bearings, so he sent them to me free of charge. That has fixed the issue for me.

I have never had a belt fail on mine (150 hours since I bought the plane).

In almost two years, I turned it on once. I live in CA and the weather doesn't usually require it. Flying east, I usually fly high to utilize faster TAS and OAT is in 0 to -10 degrees C range.

I am thinking of removing it this September when I am doing the annual condition inspection. I plan on flying to Oshkosh this year, so my opinion may change after that trip :)
 
Another data point

I personally decided against a hard install of an AC in my 10. At the time, I thought, well, they also make portable systems (ice box cooler type, Arctic Air, etc). However, if you want "real" AC, even the portables have some portion of the system that must be hard installed. I think my 10 will get up to altitude pretty quickly and, therefore, shouldn't need an AC. However, I live in Colorado, while you live in Georgia.

In talking with other builders, I believe the 2 or 3 real AC providers in the experimental marketplace have fixed their glitches, by working with the early adopters. The one person I knew who had a 10 with air conditioning, told me that most of the time, even when flying in the South, it was excellent at cooling down the airplane. If you've got the bucks and plan to fly a lot, at low altitudes, in the hot, muggy South, perhaps you should go for it. Your plane, your mission.
 
Thanks to All

That have replied so far.

Lenny, I recall when we met you indicated you liked the cooling (and your climate is a little more harsh year-round), but you were frustrated with the effort involved keeping the system working.

I know the RV-10 is a good climber, but a lot of my flying will be in the South and I'd really prefer not to sweat. Of course, there are compromises anytime you install a somewhat unique system in your plane.

Please keep the responses coming from others with A/C.
 
I have the airflow systems in mine. I can't say that it has been 100% trouble free, but Bill has been great to work and I would have no hesitation with today's design and components which are much improved over 6ish years ago when I first got mine.

I ran my hoses through the sidewall instead of the tunnel which in my opinion is the only way to do it. I have the Aerosport overhead console with Stein Air Vents.

Even living in Arizona, I use the system a lot more than I thought I would. Dehumidifying is great and must be beneficial to avionics and interiors and even at low OAT's the cabin is a greenhouse in the direct sun.

I recently did a Flying Samaritans trip to Baja and the pax (and I) loved the system.

250 hours and wouldn't consider a 10 without it. I'm thinking of building a cub for cub missions but my mission for the 10 was comfort cruising.
 
I have the airflow systems in mine. I can't say that it has been 100% trouble free, but Bill has been great to work and I would have no hesitation with today's design and components which are much improved over 6ish years ago when I first got mine.

I ran my hoses through the sidewall instead of the tunnel which in my opinion is the only way to do it. I have the Aerosport overhead console with Stein Air Vents.

Did you have to make any modifications to the airframe to run the hoses through the sidewall? Do you have photos of your install?

I am planning to install the Airflow system in my -10 because, even though I live in the northwest, many of my flights will be to Wichita, KS in the summer. A/C is a must have!
 
I had to do a knock out on the side panel that forms the back wall of the luggage compartment to run a hose through where the wall cavity is too thin. I used half of a PVC pipe as a mold and obviously had to notch the side of the aft bulkhead panel.

It just looks and functions as a rub rail. I'll try to put together some pix. I think Airflow Bill has some.
 
I have an all electric FlightlineAC system. Works great and I can hardly imagine not having it. In my plane I spent Hours sealing up the cockpit so tight that there is not draft whatsoever if all the vents are closed. In doing so there is not enough air flow in the cabin to keep you cool with the stock vents.

If the air temperature is 65 or higher and the sun shining you will break a sweat if the AC is off.

To make it work properly I had to build a 24 volt system with the new plane power 150 amp alt. $$

Due to the added weight in the rear I mounted 2 Odyssy 680 batteries on the firewall. CG turned out just right. I am at the front of the CG envelope when single pilot full fuel.

If I built a new RV-10 today I probably would put an AC in it. My mission is ~30 hrs a month with lots of trips coming home getting into the plane sitting on the ramp at 3:30pm.
 
Lenny,

How long ago did you install your system? How long has your 10 been flying? I'm about to pull the trigger on the Airflow system, but this has me taking a step back and doing a little more research.

Thanks,
Lynn

I'm really curious what feedback this post will get you. I installed AC in mine, the engine driven compressor kind with a bottom scoop from Airflow Systems. Just got done removing the last of the hoses from the tunnel at my last condition inspection.
When it worked it worked great and it was awesome to have, but considering how much time, effort and money i invested into it, it was definitely a bad idea.
The compressor mount and belt system was not engineered correctly. It kept on stripping the cogs from the belts. I had to remove the prop a few times to change belts. The last belt I had worked great but when I removed the cowling 90% of the cogs were gone from the belt.
Bill was great to work with, he always remedied the problems quickly. He machined a whole new flywheel that takes a 4 groove serpentine belt, with a different type of tensioner and that should have fixed the problems. The new fix came with a new compressor that was sticking out an inch further forward for which i would have had to put a bigger bump on the cowling. I just ran out of steam at that point. Got frustrated one day and just removed the whole thing. Feels good not to have to remove the cowling between oil changes to check on the stupid belt.
A nice side effect is that my prop safety wiring job started looking a lot better ;)
It seems I wasn't alone with the belt-breaking adventures either. I wasn't the first guy who installed this thing and for some reason everyone seemed happy with their setup.
So, it's awesome to have when it works, but consider the work involved, the weight penalty (50+ lbs), the complexity in the tunnel, and also a slight (?) speed penalty from the condenser scoop.

Lenny
 
Lynn,

My system was from 2010, I've been flying for 2 years. I'm pretty sure it has improved since then. If you go for it, make sure to get the serpentine belt setup.

Lenny
 
Luis,

Once you take off and get to maybe 4,000ft you start being comfortable. The problem is when you are sitting on the ramp waiting for a couple of planes to take off. During the summer months (like right now) clouds are so low that if you want to fly you'll be spending a lot of time at 1000-2000 ft. It gets very hot.
I haven't given up on cold air just yet. I kept my condenser scoop and I'll be building something electric soon. I like Weasel's 150A alternator. Didn't even know that existed. That opens up some other possibilities.
Having an alternator on the nose just seems like a lot less experimental to me than a compressor.
 
I have the Flightline AC system and have been flying with it since 2009. I had the tensioner bearing failure as well, back in 2010 or 2011. When I talked to John at Flightline, he told me that he had sourced those bearings from a local company who had gone out of business in the recession. So, he offered to send me some extras he had in stock, or to send me a new mounting system he had designed and was installing. He felt like the bearings were going to be an ongoing problem and once he was out of them.......................??
So, I had him send me the new mounting kit. The new kit moved the alternator back over to the right side of the engine, where it would normally be, and installed the new compressor on the left side. At that time, he was recommending that the hoses go over the top of the engine, but I decided to leave mine below the engine. I had to modify the main compressor bracket he sent and actually ended up designing my own version of it. It has run well over the years, except for the original tensioner bearings failing. Just recently, I developed a leak on the top fitting on the compressor and lost the freon. Repaired that and had the system recharged and now it seems like the pressure sensor is not working properly, so will be taking a look at that this week. Overall, I would tell you that it has been reliable and not much fuss since I changed to the new mounting system. John Strain has given me exceptional support and basically gave me the new mounting system and compressor at no charge. I believe I read recently that John has sold the company, so I don't know what the future holds.
I have flown two other -10's that had the Airflow system installed and I have to say, I felt like they produced noticeably more cold air than the Flightline system. I had not heard about the Airflow belt problems until this thread. The flightline system uses regular v belts. I keep an extra for the compressor and the alternator in my fly-away kit. No belt failures or problems in 850 hours with a fair amount of use. I get the belts at NAPA and keep an extra for the compressor and the alternator in my fly-away kit. On the rare occasions when I have the prop off, I go ahead and install the spares and buy two more new ones to keep in the fly-away kit.
I live in FL, so use the system quite a bit. It is most important on the ground, for us. Most of our flying is cross country, so it is generally not used once above two or three thousand feet on most trips.
 
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+1 for Airflow System

I also have fitted the Airflow System.

My kit was purchased in late 2013 and I was one of the first to fit the larger Evaporator units that Bill now sells. ( flying since July 2014 )

My aircraft has now flown 2 x Australian summers ,I use it a lot and would install it again if I was building again.

The kit I installed uses the new Serpentine belt and new ( at the time ) compressor mount. The new mount allows you to mount the compressor lower down in the cowl to leave a largely unobstructed intake on the left side of the cowl with only minor modification to the cowl and the left hand front baffle. (This you have to figure out yourself )

h-ncqg5RBxa3Fs1CJAIfRvNwN528LNovOzRNbFVmtlHcvEScMsfWpNVOdPHUAPMZOAsF-9R0oAVxVRCNagAE-QLBVhf7m4XIY6c5Ot3MArldDL5988RhAhDdjnwZTxAGbsXo5FMSM7x4DXc-e6nCASt-8dKtvnD_mSt8ifRPpwi-JuzPYDdoreZkFZ6X1b2TW_mKku6Mey43ZYUXIL0ZynKVIzF_TgIJJjw6mFZPe_Y1nioAnmWTbJhppbeDETuLkpuywe9KP5fUFE_xbKBzvk0xKQcNW0o2_epK_Ck9dWJP332dpvvu6w163mBN2pgWzLxMU1VlBC67_dNgAcKfQ_qGZC3eLw4dMY0V9QiMtF_OpATZAoCrgfFWgaY-kPS3gFikWeXqqjfUnKQN7YJ_yyy68bm8lc8TTS5dOWrnipFEs0NRdOVN_MNh6BzZ2J57NtHvQFex5QaKJ-1Xu1EQ0ZKAF9MOfOSKyZTDBb-Xhj30C91Y7vTcw3ohH5fMW953q_5XODTZTgqCZmhmNDlHWuwIi5dkQtNOtIdZUrL4lo_oIXFM_CYJQgAj-pxE6Xyk3TwnaS4VQ2CZaZ-8---0V1DUzTu0QSe60hyhpa5T6luulGs_=w915-h686-no


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After the first summer I found that although the Spall scroll fan could deliver enough cfm for the system,it could not flow this air with enough pressure into the Aerosport Roof Console. So I purchased and installed a 4" in-line duct fan to add to the Evap system. Very happy with this mod .
NJk05fgLUtfHC5V-M6wrNDCEmUNPkWjLfNx_zDcVazwBNnicOq8AXXEwlg3R4Un73-Z90oDYRMq-dEbkczrfc8_J7HxZch_LG7hO17wYD4Abh-4prDhdD2XyJH6T2ZjLse_ldxBAS-q-b0o_dOYrGbcHt-OOVBCYru1HDKu6g7mJkZoCExUQcdJouwTsZfl_nZgEtPTBx50CeoWc_K2JxUdIrfOSyumrAQ6NgTTetC8ynsVWff3CpAhicZfk2DhwY5PfVJCtwiDKBziBN20nH2nTQoNlTmNK6U5pBBwDTCoHkR-5guMA1HMBQ3wW3-Et44aM8VbN2thRz7skAjBM0j4p1zUYKz615u-7oA46eTpHpbkW0aZvXyeWjxXPw7YNI8I9CpnFWCvgaXEdeYnQNqQ36nAnBCgM9H5ATEvb7-IndeGSbdAumbnenD48kNZbXlznXq-Bf5xlmaayKq4ecUr8hM5tDJtvoigaPNCFJF6pkCi16aAG_5AqoO5NDAlg9zCUMtl3jgMjnQnnvg8OvzDM0JqLnAXvzm_926G1H25VwQlS1bVk2U8V9UTNXEq6XMQQJiD3p2tKDEFa5AfL1AzrsVGRrHhicZwIQWP1lY_nSgzs=w515-h686-no

I also added the Aerosport Naca Vent valve to allow fresh air to the roof console when the A/C is off. Really like this feature.
http://www.aerosportproducts.com/nacavalve.htm

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The only problem I have had with the system is the idler pulley supplied with the kit threw most of its grease out in the first 25hrs on operation. I replaced that bearing with a high temperature bearing and at nearly 300 hrs,no problems. The Serpentine belts do not stretch much compared to the old V belts, I have not needed to adjust the belt at all since replacing the idler bearing ( 275hrs ago ).

JktrY5z42t-VuogxSRZmyWgSm4Yr0ccNJgATt751LAn3WMdA2zdiv0sw1rEHs5mN1ZKzn1wMD9oBxRE8qBMYIPp_sh8k9WLMNNUOMp2e1SuaEb8-Nf1yS1RV2z7z6U9Nxgf0EWlXId97HpDjvN9D2NpsEjgUkadunkOx9mYclw972kxWzcvBdSxQdu82nwIaj4P5pSjUu5dU4Q1MqFvb_XaBXDILuhufaRJLen5Fa0e7HvxhxMy0h620e1EEGn3pdsOYyzUJWoJde1ioQpmzYZeglrF0dLVAnEz2pVFIDu3nc1BfhIzom9GAJ5fc93--FlpZomwMSqM2Zzhz-ukDgJqbCVbxudwzo9R8jubahGrY9KvbULSoCI7P806TyiVtdBce_zlyAkEcdS6l_D1Qi_wenXVmjPQZ0ecYO1j7Pv-TDkBEpZASqMgRQsZJTRHgTkiFzTMz4hgSXA5J1JoDBVZbo_ykkxZAcWxj59yGpjYB67lApZCZ_5bL_8IWhQQ39SkVbiEFHOPmChw4XIitTy3y8-8Yr4syCeGCt3VI2Ukzyq3xx54RgMxafVkOTnoGrhOiEJwWto8rt2vHosNrmI8yHiBVkrggWbjNg11WSbPr08yN=w515-h686-no


My goal when I built the RV-10 was to have a modern comfortable aircraft that my wife and family would be happy to hop in all year round. The Airflow System A/C allows this in the hot and humid Australian summers.

i-xjwvh8mpVxsuuLe1cVmgfGS03k-JxudYCAg_gfd5C9nNYZ39dVxXGwkF8u_i5JrsYmqWkxm8oO0HHE6EWMOCdZQ89IZ1aaYnPQJLkVTyoEiuX6mbxxOjI34mnrbrBddF0-LQlaA6TLyXoKk9DAKu15KCP_MT4aSo_27fVt4uf2b2QLcTzUZ_OdMHQpM5yrqchly2iFjrP1jqFbfPK--51-qD9fX4ijz-9Z6pTtXGcyRWEX6XagtkhF-0I5cEZ9xO-EZl4ggCLkYxcxdwv6Sh9h3C5lDz0p6bqgBGeYAM0dUy5iEexWpOB5xHXMEqaI8GRps_731zIDUTTdmRDkz13Uiub4vLjGOzWxswL_QLqeCTK0fhdXwdAYGW79fpRl490m2VUh7aGg6duAEBWikgMz2pxz9PP2VUvz53xIUyQbIQxeJTCdCpNdcSddJX0IlgGBeKbqG0uHjkCRnSlMorBroBxyPoKa6esF6H84B9dpvZZ-ROBJk8TChaxZkNbKuJkYbRfV13s1K8CAOOIsBBZMjJTpkgeDbWe1TXY1q4Ipx9tRDCpCYdP6tqWz4YOqZ-IT6TVF_Ox9EdcGGq_RWXkGVKIZunaTzs7wizKwUbUIpcHq=w915-h686-no



I have flown many scenic flights at 1000ft during summer,it was a lot more enjoyable in an aircraft with A/C fitted .

Bill at Airflow Systems was very helpful with the many questions I had during the installation.

Some photos here :

https://goo.gl/photos/TkPo45yzHnVNCdP29

Cheers
 
Last edited:
Retro Install

Now that I am a proud RV-10 owner (14 volt), the "Boss" thinks we need air conditioning here in South Carolina.

So a few Questions...

Are there many that have done an install on an RV-10 they purchased?

Which A/C system?

Electric or engine driven?

Who installed it? You or someone else?

Time to install?

Expense to have it installed?
 
Last edited:
Ashley,

Your photos are exactly what I've been trying to find. Do you have any more of the lines being fed down the right side?

Thanks,
Lynn

I also have fitted the Airflow System.

My kit was purchased in late 2013 and I was one of the first to fit the larger Evaporator units that Bill now sells. ( flying since July 2014 )

My aircraft has now flown 2 x Australian summers ,I use it a lot and would install it again if I was building again.

The kit I installed uses the new Serpentine belt and new ( at the time ) compressor mount. The new mount allows you to mount the compressor lower down in the cowl to leave a largely unobstructed intake on the left side of the cowl with only minor modification to the cowl and the left hand front baffle. (This you have to figure out yourself )

After the first summer I found that although the Spall scroll fan could deliver enough cfm for the system,it could not flow this air with enough pressure into the Aerosport Roof Console. So I purchased and installed a 4" in-line duct fan to add to the Evap system. Very happy with this mod .

I also added the Aerosport Naca Vent valve to allow fresh air to the roof console when the A/C is off. Really like this feature.
http://www.aerosportproducts.com/nacavalve.htm

The only problem I have had with the system is the idler pulley supplied with the kit threw most of its grease out in the first 25hrs on operation. I replaced that bearing with a high temperature bearing and at nearly 300 hrs,no problems. The Serpentine belts do not stretch much compared to the old V belts, I have not needed to adjust the belt at all since replacing the idler bearing ( 275hrs ago ).

My goal when I built the RV-10 was to have a modern comfortable aircraft that my wife and family would be happy to hop in all year round. The Airflow System A/C allows this in the hot and humid Australian summers.

I have flown many scenic flights at 1000ft during summer,it was a lot more enjoyable in an aircraft with A/C fitted .

Bill at Airflow Systems was very helpful with the many questions I had during the installation.

Some photos here :

https://goo.gl/photos/TkPo45yzHnVNCdP29

Cheers
 
Flightline AC

I installed the FlightLine AC from John. I worked with him for tweaks to the system and I can gladly say it is working well and I have a happy family in the hot Houston Texas weather. I had 4 eye ball vents but at Johns suggestion added the larger 4" vents to ensure more airflow (total of 6). I have my evaporator installed forward of the baggage bulk head with a transition to the overhead. There are two 4" vents mounted in the transition to help return cold air back to the evaporator and establish a cool down quicker in hot cabin. The final configuration for the condenser was two add a second condenser for the hotter weather capacity similar to the lancair install designs. I did add two naca vents that duct into the condenser plenum for better cooling on the ground since the inlet on the bottom of the aircraft was flowing hot air from the engine on the ground.

I do agree with other comments that its great to dehumidify the cabin. I typically run it from start up to shut down and let the temp controller do its job. The ONE THING I WOULD CHANGE.... add insulation to the cabin top in the plenum so keep the "rain in the plane" from occurring. Its not bad but does happen since the cabin top it hot and the plenum air is very cold.

250 hours and we are very happy. I did talk to John last week to purchase another vent so he is certainly still around working hard for Kelly Aerospace.

Hope this helps. Here is a link for pictures.http://texasrv10.com/wordpress/category/systems/flight-line-air-conditioning Sadly this isn't the final configuration as I had never updated the site.
 
More Photos added

Hi Lynn,

I have added some more photos in Post #15 that show the stand-off for the rear cover panel and the notched out Rear Cargo Bulkhead.

When I do my annual in July I'll add some more photos of that area.

Cheers,
 
Thanks again, you have a great looking 10 by the way. ;)

Lynn

Hi Lynn,

I have added some more photos in Post #15 that show the stand-off for the rear cover panel and the notched out Rear Cargo Bulkhead.

When I do my annual in July I'll add some more photos of that area.

Cheers,
 
Great response

Thanks to all who have responded so far. Great information and good to know that these systems work and cool the cabin.
 
Has anyone considered installing Heated/Cooled seats such as in nicer autos?

I have heated seats from Flyboys. Very cheap and easy. Wifey loves them. One pad on seat bottom, the other on lumber pillow. Wonderful range extender on an old tired lower back.

Cooled seats would be a nightmare to engineer IMO.
 
Nah...

not difficult at all. Just let your body heat warm the seat heating element and push electrical energy back into the battery. Easy-peasy.

:p
 
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