Ours too! Way excited and looking forward to it.Our first Airventure! Can't wait
I took a cursory look at it...I can't find any real differences between it and last year...am I missing something? I thought the procedure would be re-engineered after last year's fiasco.
I took a cursory look at it...I can't find any real differences between it and last year...am I missing something? I thought the procedure would be re-engineered after last year's fiasco.
Changes for 2019 include:
- New procedure for diversion to Fond du Lac
- Restriction on transponder use removed
- IFR routing changes
- Manitowoc (MTW) VOR decommissioned
- Numerous text and graphics changes
Well, I've looked it over and the major difference I see is the FDL addition if OSH is closed for any amount of time. I thought there was going to be another initial starting point... Waupun... for the Fisk arrival. I'm happy to see it's not there. It seems that with the FDL procedure they have tried to at the least have a thought out and predetermined Plan B. My take is I'll bet they are really.... REALLY going to try and improve the use of runways to maximize landings. That is the only true way to eliminate congestion in the air.
So, I have to say my hats off to them for not trying to reinvent the wheel.
Well, I've looked it over and the major difference I see is the FDL addition if OSH is closed for any amount of time. I thought there was going to be another initial starting point... Waupun... for the Fisk arrival. I'm happy to see it's not there. It seems that with the FDL procedure they have tried to at the least have a thought out and predetermined Plan B. My take is I'll bet they are really.... REALLY going to try and improve the use of runways to maximize landings. That is the only true way to eliminate congestion in the air.
So, I have to say my hats off to them for not trying to reinvent the wheel.
If the FAA ignores the issue they had with their controllers, which in my opinion was the single biggest problem, I don't expect to see anything different than last years cluster #@$#. It's a bloody miracle their wasn't a midair on Sunday last year.
Blaming the pilots for the conditions or not following "procedures" is baloney, the ATC situation was totally out of control.
I was in the mess when controllers were calling for 1 mile and then 2 mile spacing, and landing 1 aircraft on a runway at a time.
I can barely see an aircraft a mile in front of me, 2 miles no way. With 2 mile spacing they'd be lined up back to Oklahoma.
On Monday when I returned to try again the same nonsense was going on with ATC, nobody landing and no one being "allowed" past Ripon, I got the feeling the controllers just didn't feel like dealing with it so the easy way was just keep telling people to go away.
This will be my first visit. And I will be arriving in my new to me 9. I?m going to arrive on Saturday because of the horror stories I heard from last years Sunday arrivals. I am open to any advice. Yes, I will be carefully reading the Notam.
On Monday when I returned to try again the same nonsense was going on with ATC, nobody landing and no one being "allowed" past Ripon, I got the feeling the controllers just didn't feel like dealing with it so the easy way was just keep telling people to go away.
Arrive at Ripon at 90 knots and 1,800?. For aircraft unable to operate comfortably at 90 knots:
Slower aircraft should use maximum
cruising speed. ATC recommends arrival
at Fisk 7:00-7:30 AM CDT, if practicable.
Faster aircraft use 135 knots and 2,300?.
Did the verbage on this change ?????
No. That's the same verbiage that's been there for years.
Hate to be critical here but this reminds me of when I was a "company man", whenever anyone complained or voiced a concern in a meeting it was always "we're looking into that", but of course nothing ever changed.Be patient, and let’s not get into a blame game. There were lots of actors last year, from weather, mass arrival timing, controllers, pilot behavior , etc.
As I mentioned last year in a similar thread a number of us have been working hard over the last year to see what can be done to improve things and make them safer at the same time. The FAA has participated in those meetings.
Please, let’s try and focus on what WE can do and trust that others are still working behind the scenes to address what we can’t.
Thanks.
Vic
This will be my first visit. And I will be arriving in my new to me 9. I’m going to arrive on Saturday because of the horror stories I heard from last years Sunday arrivals. I am open to any advice. Yes, I will be carefully reading the Notam.
Hate to be critical here but this reminds me of when I was a "company man", whenever anyone complained or voiced a concern in a meeting it was always "we're looking into that", but of course nothing ever changed.
So please tell us Vic, since the FAA has been in your meetings, have they taken any responsibility for the actions of ATC controllers and have they made any commitment to change?
About the only thing I can think I can do personally to prevent a reoccurrence, is not show up.
Well said, Vic. However, I hope there is a plan in place this year to have a visit from a FAA representative for those who don't follow the procedures.
Personally, Walt, I think you are better than this. I thought I was clear that they have been involved. There is controller training going on and they are looking at ways to get experienced controllers back.
Jack and Charlie are in meetings this week with the highest levels of the FAA.
I am far from being a company man. Actually I’ve never even been accused of that. ��
I am asking you to trust that we are all still working on it and we really wish we were further along and had more to report. It continues to be a lot of hard work for those who are involved.
I think the attitude of not going is a mistake. People like you have a lot to share with others and they look for leadership. Remember when we were there once, trying to learn from others?
Its now our turn to be leaders, and leading is hard at times.
Vic
This will be my first visit. And I will be arriving in my new to me 9. I’m going to arrive on Saturday because of the horror stories I heard from last years Sunday arrivals. I am open to any advice. Yes, I will be carefully reading the Notam.
I was in the mess when controllers were calling for 1 mile and then 2 mile spacing, and landing 1 aircraft on a runway at a time.
I can barely see an aircraft a mile in front of me, 2 miles no way. With 2 mile spacing they'd be lined up back to Oklahoma.
Hopefully they are making some procedural changes that are not reflected in the NOTAM, otherwise I think this procedure is worse. People will get diverted to FLD and will never get a chance to get back in unless there is a way to cut off arrivals from Ripon. Last year people were sent to hold never released from hold because the steady stream of new arrivals got in front of them.
I want to challenge everyone here to take a hard honest look at YOUR personal minimums for the flight into Oshkosh this year. Set them and don?t violate them. I honestly believe this the single most important thing we can do to guarantee our family, friends, and the aviation fraternity that no one will get hurt this year. If you have it already in your head that you will arrive at a specific time and place, then please, please, please re-evaluate you?re critical thinking skills. There are a lot of ways to get to Airventure, and the trip isn?t mandatory for anyone.
The weekend arrival is very, very busy, even at the best of times. Knowing the weather was going to be "iffy", I booked an extra day of vacation in order to arrive on the Friday. Traffic was low, the arrival was a joy to fly, and I managed to plant the mains on the white dot for my very first arrival at OSH by aircraft.
Rather than having such an intense focus on how to pound a lot of aircraft into OSH in short order, why not de-stress your travel plans by planning to arrive before the big fur ball builds up?
So, if we move our arrivals to Friday...
Where can you find times when the Mass arrivals on Sat and Sun before the airshow will be scheduled? Will that info be included in the text messages? What will happen if mass arrivals are delayed for weather? Will they be rescheduled or cancelled?
Page 6 of the NOTAM:
"These formation arrivals are scheduled for late morning through mid-afternoon on Saturday, July 20, and for early morning on Sunday, July 21.Weather and other factors may change the schedule. Traffic using the Fisk VFR arrival to Oshkosh can expect delays during these large formation arrivals."
My interpretation of this is "get there before noon on Saturday"
Where can you find times when the Mass arrivals on Sat and Sun before the airshow will be scheduled? Will that info be included in the text messages? What will happen if mass arrivals are delayed for weather? Will they be rescheduled or cancelled?
The arrivals will be published. The plan right now is that if they miss their slot they will have to go use the normal approach. The exception will most likely be the Bonanzas, as they land faster than all of us since they land 2 abreast. (No, I don't want to hear why we can't do that).
The texting service should help all of us while many miles away to understand if there are problems.
Vic
a ground stop/delay system out to 150 miles used by air traffic control officials.
BTW, there are things being done to accomodate early arrivals
Thanks!
Vic
There are still lots of details being worked out, including ground transportation such as welcome wagon, food, and camping. I was just there last week and as you can guess OSH is just now coming out of winter, allowing the grounds to be worked. The Homebuilt council spent a lot of time walking the grounds and getting updates on all of the projects. Hopefully the weather will cooperate and things will get finished. It?s mind boggling seeing what is underway, but after being involved for so many years it is clear that this time of the year is ?miracle? season for the crews at OSH.
Which BTW, is accomplished by A LOT of volunteers who show up every weekend. It?s one of the reasons I get so defensive about comments regarding the ground operations. OSH happens because there are over 5000 volunteers who make it happen. They are no different than you or I in that they want to do a good job and make it fun for everyone. Sometimes even the best efforts don?t yield the results we might want. We are trying to figure out how to make use of technology to understand real time availability of parking to help them out, but as with everything, it takes time.
Make sure you sign up for the text messaging once it is announced, but also don?t forget to fly the airplane and keep your eyes out the window please. I think the majority of us usually have a cockpit companion to which we can assign some duties.
Watch for some messages on e-grams and Sport Aviation as we get close to AV.
Thanks a bunch for those of you who are understanding the challenges. For those of you who are still doubters?- I get it. Just come later in the week if you are more comfortable. Let?s not make it a race to get there.
Vic
The arrivals will be published. The plan right now is that if they miss their slot they will have to go use the normal approach. The exception will most likely be the Bonanzas, as they land faster than all of us since they land 2 abreast. (No, I don't want to hear why we can't do that).
The texting service should help all of us while many miles away to understand if there are problems.
Vic