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-   -   Military aircraft (http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=175394)

rcarsey 09-20-2019 03:29 PM

Military aircraft
 
Just a FYI, as of (soon), military aircraft have the option of turning off their ADS-B transmissions in locations that otherwise would require it. (link to the Federal Register here).

I saw a Black Hawk from the ground that was not broadcasting (though its not 2020 yet!), however, I did see him on the TIS feed from ATC. Possible the heli wasnt ADSB equipped yet though, or they turned it off.

sailvi767 09-20-2019 03:40 PM

Most likely not equipped. A substantial portion of the military fleet will not meet the deadline. All military aircraft I am aware of have the ability to stop all electronic emissions from the aircraft usually by just pushing one switch. The reasons are obvious.
G

pazmanyflyer 09-20-2019 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailvi767 (Post 1374919)
Most likely not equipped. A substantial portion of the military fleet will not meet the deadline. All military aircraft I am aware of have the ability to stop all electronic emissions from the aircraft usually by just pushing one switch. The reasons are obvious.
G

Correct. Just had a Lt. Col. from Luke AFB give a talk to our EAA chapter of their procedures and practices and was told they do not have ADSB.

mulde35d 09-20-2019 07:14 PM

Hawks
 
I can confirm most Blackhawks are not yet equipped.

GalinHdz 09-21-2019 06:45 AM

FWIW the FAR's do not apply to military aircraft. :cool:

RV8JD 09-21-2019 05:25 PM

"Military to Have 2,936 Aircraft with ADS-B (Out) by Jan. 1"
 
Published August 19, 2019:

https://www.aviationtoday.com/2019/0...ir-force-says/

"Military to Have 2,936 Aircraft with ADS-B (Out) by Jan. 1, Air Force Says"
"The Pentagon will have 2,936 aircraft equipped with Automatic Dependent Surveillance-Broadcast (Out) by the FAA-mandated deadline of Jan. 1, according to the U.S. Air Force, the military service in charge of the effort.

That number is just 21 percent of DoD's total aircraft inventory, but officials have said that ADS-B (Out) modifications present a significant depot scheduling challenge, and, in some cases, engineering challenges, such as for fighter aircraft. By 2025, DoD plans to have about 62 percent of its aircraft equipped with ADS-B (Out), including 35 percent of fighter aircraft, 67 percent of helicopters, and 100 percent of mobility, command and control/intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance (C2/ISR), and trainer aircraft, an Air Force official said Aug. 19.

On Aug. 19, the Air Force provided a breakdown of the 2,936 aircraft to have ADS-B (Out) by Jan. 1. By that date, no fighter or bomber aircraft or UAVs will have ADS-B (Out), but 1,129 helicopters, 923 mobility aircraft, 259 C2/ISR aircraft, and 625 trainers will, the Air Force said.

The Air Force official said that DoD will not equip aircraft that are to retire by 2025 with ADS-B (Out), as the Pentagon determined that the effort would not be worth the cost. In addition, other aircraft, such as the Air Force bomber fleet and the future B-21 bomber, have mission requirements that "do not align from an operational security standpoint with the broadcast nature of ADS-B (Out).""

Some Navy P-3s and Air Force C-17s up here in the Pacific NW have ADS-B OUT.

N733JJ 09-21-2019 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GalinHdz (Post 1375001)
FWIW the FAR's do not apply to military aircraft. :cool:

Actually, FAR does apply to military aircraft though they have some waivers.


§91.1***Applicability.
(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b), (c), (e), and (f) of this section and §§91.701 and 91.703,
this part prescribes rules governing the operation of aircraft within the United States, including
the waters within 3 nautical miles of the U.S. coast.
(b) Each person operating an aircraft in the airspace overlying the waters between 3 and 12 nau-
tical miles from the coast of the United States must comply with §§91.1 through 91.21; §§91.101
through 91.143; §§91.151 through 91.159; §§91.167 through 91.193; §91.203; §91.205; §§91.209
through 91.217; §91.221, §91.225; §§91.303 through 91.319; §§91.323 through 91.327; §91.605;
§91.609; §§91.703 through 91.715; and §91.903.
(c) This part applies to each person on board an aircraft being operated under this part, unless
otherwise specified.
(d) This part also establishes requirements for operators to take actions to support the continued
airworthiness of each airplane.
(e) This part does not apply to any aircraft or vehicle governed by part 103 of this chapter, or
subparts B, C, or D of part 101 of this chapter.
(f) Except as provided in §§107.13, 107.27, 107.47, 107.57, and 107.59 of this chapter, this part
does not apply to any aircraft governed by part 107 of this chapter

RV8iator 09-21-2019 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by N733JJ (Post 1375133)
Actually, FAR does apply to military aircraft though they have some waivers.


§91.1***Applicability.
(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b), (c), (e), and (f) of this section and §§91.701 and 91.703,
this part prescribes rules governing the operation of aircraft within the United States, including
the waters within 3 nautical miles of the U.S. coast.
(b) Each person operating an aircraft in the airspace overlying the waters between 3 and 12 nau-
tical miles from the coast of the United States must comply with §§91.1 through 91.21; §§91.101
through 91.143; §§91.151 through 91.159; §§91.167 through 91.193; §91.203; §91.205; §§91.209
through 91.217; §91.221, §91.225; §§91.303 through 91.319; §§91.323 through 91.327; §91.605;
§91.609; §§91.703 through 91.715; and §91.903.
(c) This part applies to each person on board an aircraft being operated under this part, unless
otherwise specified.
(d) This part also establishes requirements for operators to take actions to support the continued
airworthiness of each airplane.
(e) This part does not apply to any aircraft or vehicle governed by part 103 of this chapter, or
subparts B, C, or D of part 101 of this chapter.
(f) Except as provided in §§107.13, 107.27, 107.47, 107.57, and 107.59 of this chapter, this part
does not apply to any aircraft governed by part 107 of this chapter

Actually not.

GalinHdz 09-21-2019 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RV8iator (Post 1375140)
Actually not.

^^^ THIS ^^^

The FAA governs civilian aviation and does not govern military aviation. The military has their own rules and regulations, but voluntarily follow FAA regulations when flying in National Airspace, except when they decide it isn't best for them to do so. That entire section you quote applies to civilian aviation under the different parts. ;)

sahrens 09-21-2019 11:25 PM

Some do and some don’t
 
For example if you look at 91.175 and 176 you will see language that specifically excludes military aircraft. In some cases the wording is except public aircraft. If you go to FAR 1 you will see the definition of public aircraft as military. The actual definition is much longer and I’m too lazy to copy it. If the military was completely exempt there would be no reason to exclude them within specific FARs.

Sometimes the military is exempt by letter of agreement which allows military aircraft / aircrews to do the things we need to do. Those are usually resigned each year without fanfare. Before NVGs become encoded in the FARs most of what we did lights out was by letter of agreement. I don’t know if those exemptions still exist or what is included.

When there is “problem” ATC will contact a military representative (a Designated Airspace Representative) and the investigation is handled internally. But occasionally it is handled outside the military chain of command. If the FAA can get the crew members name and they have a civilian ticket they can take action. I know of two cases where pilots were under consideration for civil suspension for actions in a military aircraft.

Having said all that, 99.9% of the time a military aircrew operating within their specific service rules would never have any problems violating FARs.


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