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-   -   RV-7A jMINTj #74651 (http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=152291)

jMINTj 08-11-2017 06:16 PM

RV-7A jMINTj #74651
 
Starting this up in addition to my build log... only about 3 or 4 posts before this one, so I'll just start up instead of backlogging.

11 August 2017 – 8 hrs

Today I put in a massive amount of time. But I feel like I didn’t get much done. I used the soldering iron to remove the blue vinyl from the rivet lines, then primed the inner skins of the VS & rudder.





Once I finished spraying and waited for those to dry, I dimpled the VS ribs and spars. That went at a good pace. However, once I got to what I thought would be the quick and fun part, riveting together the VS skeleton, things went south very quickly. I figured I’d be done in a couple of hours and ready to finish riveting on the skins early tomorrow… until I took over an hour to rivet the hinge brackets on. My first big mistake came less than 5 rivets in… Note I was using the rivet gun for these.




The rivet was drilled out successfully, although not very gracefully, with little interference with the original hole. But in this photo you can see I had a lot of trouble with the powder-coated steel and keeping the cupped set straight.



So I put some duct tape on top of the set. That helped a bit. I checked the plans and although some of the rivets are ugly, they don’t need to be replaced as they are cosmetic blemishes. I might drill them out and re-do them eventually, however. On the plus side, I could barely tell the difference in hole I drilled out and re-riveted. Actually, that was probably the best rivet of the day, which says a lot.

After that, I messed up another rivet and botched the drill-out, so it took me maybe 20 minutes or more to try to correct the off-center drill-out. I eventually took my Dremel and a cutting wheel and sliced the shop head off as close to the work as I could, angled the drill to try and work the hole toward the center, and finally just took an old chisel and set it against the remaining shop head and hit it with a rubber mallet. That worked pretty well and the rivet turned out ok also. I was so frustrated I didn’t even take pics of that one. At that point I realized that I could probably get by with squeezing these rivets. That was even more awkward and slower than the bucking bar and rivet gun, so I went back to the gun.

All in all, a pretty frustrating day. I didn’t even finish half of the rivets on the spars and ribs building the VS skeleton. This was probably due to lost proficiency after not having riveted since finishing the practice kits a few weeks ago. I made some of the same beginner mistakes I made back when I was starting those. But on the bright side, the skins are ready to rivet on whenever I finish the skeleton, and I finished the build log the day I actually did the work. So there’s good that came out of the day!

jcarne 08-11-2017 06:28 PM

Glad to see a new builder thread here! I have found that there are two camps one being way more dominant than the other here. Squeeze vs buck. I have chosen the squeeze camp; what I mean is most purchase 4-6 yolks so that they can squeeze almost any rivet within 4" of an edge before having to buck. Bucking rivets is a must know but I like to avoid it when I can as there is greater risk for damage. I do however recall having to buck the rivets closest to the flange. Looks like you are doing pretty good so far, a few rivet smileys here and there are no big deal. I would love to say I have never had to drill out a rivet but no dice on that one... I am no expert by any means but your work looks decent so far! Just out of curiosity what kind of primer is that? I have never seen that color.

vernon smith 08-11-2017 07:43 PM

Oops rivets
 
Mint,

Van offers rivets in all four head/size configurations with a 1/32 oversized shank while retaining the head configuration. These are a great way to cover up a situation like your elongated hole. They are in Van's accessories area, I ordered a supply of them in anticipation of multiple screw ups :)

jMINTj 08-12-2017 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcarne (Post 1195396)
Glad to see a new builder thread here! I have found that there are two camps one being way more dominant than the other here. Squeeze vs buck. I have chosen the squeeze camp; what I mean is most purchase 4-6 yolks so that they can squeeze almost any rivet within 4" of an edge before having to buck. Bucking rivets is a must know but I like to avoid it when I can as there is greater risk for damage. I do however recall having to buck the rivets closest to the flange. Looks like you are doing pretty good so far, a few rivet smileys here and there are no big deal. I would love to say I have never had to drill out a rivet but no dice on that one... I am no expert by any means but your work looks decent so far! Just out of curiosity what kind of primer is that? I have never seen that color.

Thanks, Jereme! I've got 3" and 4" yokes. I just need to get back in on some scrap aluminum and practice a few rivets as the longer ones seem harder to get right than those in the practice kits. I agree with you about less chance for damage with the squeezer, which is why I wanted to go to it.

The primer is called U-Pol Acid #8 self-etching rattle can. It's one of the only rattle can primers I could find "easily" here that was self-etching. I'm currently in Spain for a couple more years, so US products are not impossible to come by, but hazardous pretty much are, unless you wanna pay $50 shipping for a $10 can of primer or $500 for 1 gallon of Akzo.

jMINTj 08-12-2017 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vernon smith (Post 1195413)
Mint,

Van offers rivets in all four head/size configurations with a 1/32 oversized shank while retaining the head configuration. These are a great way to cover up a situation like your elongated hole. They are in Van's accessories area, I ordered a supply of them in anticipation of multiple screw ups :)

Vern, thanks for the return favor! ;)

They're on order!

jcarne 08-12-2017 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jMINTj (Post 1195452)
Thanks, Jereme! I've got 3" and 4" yokes. I just need to get back in on some scrap aluminum and practice a few rivets as the longer ones seem harder to get right than those in the practice kits. I agree with you about less chance for damage with the squeezer, which is why I wanted to go to it.

The primer is called U-Pol Acid #8 self-etching rattle can. It's one of the only rattle can primers I could find "easily" here that was self-etching. I'm currently in Spain for a couple more years, so US products are not impossible to come by, but hazardous pretty much are, unless you wanna pay $50 shipping for a $10 can of primer or $500 for 1 gallon of Akzo.

Oh yes I didn't see at first that you are in Spain, I have heard anywhere in Europe has an almost impossible time finding that good green stuff! :D

One yolk that I would acquire as you are already on a good start is the longeron yolk. I use that yolk a lot and it is worth its weight in gold!

jMINTj 08-12-2017 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcarne (Post 1195496)
Oh yes I didn't see at first that you are in Spain, I have heard anywhere in Europe has an almost impossible time finding that good green stuff! :D

One yolk that I would acquire as you are already on a good start is the longeron yolk. I use that yolk a lot and it is worth its weight in gold!

So true! And I appreciate the recommendation. I tried to order one when Numatix was having their "going out of business/being bought out" sale here in the classifieds, but there was some confusion on my order (my fault) and they were out by the time I caught it. I'll have to order one. Is it useful before getting to the fuse kit?

jMINTj 08-12-2017 04:31 PM

So About Those Plans...
 
12 August 2017 - 3 hrs

Today was a much better day for riveting. I clamped the VS rear spar to the table and got through the remaining rivets at a pretty good rate. I guess it's kind of like riding a bike. I was VERY pleased with how the shop heads were formed as well, although I wasn't thrilled with the marking on the front of the spar from the flush set. But you can't win 'em all, right?








One thing I figured out was that if I set a rag (it was wrapped around the squeezer yoke, which is why it looks so dirty :-p ) on the lower flanges, I can rest the bucking bar on it giving me a perpendicular set with almost no effort.

By the way, the tungsten bucking bar, with the small size that can fit almost anywhere and good weight is definitely worth the investment. I was skeptical at first, but I'm a believer now! I also finished riveting the VS front spar (seen in the pic below). With those done, I started to cleco the VS skin on.



Notice anything? Yeah, those skins aren't dimpled yet... Since I was skipping around dealing with the primer delay and trying to find something "interesting" for my buddy to help with, I totally skipped dimpling the skins. Soooo, I had to laugh. Then I called it a day and let myself be dragged around an outlet mall.

And one extra thing I learned. When attaching the VS skin, it helps to have a couple microfiber cloths to pad between the front ribs and the small diameter of the skin near the front fold. That way you avoid having the ribs scratch primer off of the skins. I'm going to borrow a phrase I see all the time on VAF. "Ask me how I know..."

jcarne 08-13-2017 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jMINTj (Post 1195607)
So true! And I appreciate the recommendation. I tried to order one when Numatix was having their "going out of business/being bought out" sale here in the classifieds, but there was some confusion on my order (my fault) and they were out by the time I caught it. I'll have to order one. Is it useful before getting to the fuse kit?

Absolutely! There are tons of spots where the rivet is next to a flange and the longeron yolk will essentially give room for the flange. I just used it the other day when I riveted the main ribs to the rear spar on my wings. Virtually every major assembly I have used it on.

Also I just read your latest post, to avoid them markings by the rivet set most people just put a bit of blue painters tape on the part and peel it off after riveting. I highly recommend this when you start riveting on an exterior surface.

jMINTj 08-13-2017 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcarne (Post 1195792)
Absolutely! There are tons of spots where the rivet is next to a flange and the longeron yolk will essentially give room for the flange. I just used it the other day when I riveted the main ribs to the rear spar on my wings. Virtually every major assembly I have used it on.

Also I just read your latest post, to avoid them markings by the rivet set most people just put a bit of blue painters tape on the part and peel it off after riveting. I highly recommend this when you start riveting on an exterior surface.

That's a great idea. I'll do that from now on. And I'll go ahead and grab one of the longeron yokes too!


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