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Avemco PIREP

bpattonsoa

Well Known Member
No comments about the Avemco PIREP I received in the Email yesterday?

It said that selected pilots would be required to obtain an annual physical from their own doctors as a condition of the insurance. The Dr would have to do the FAA medical form for each examination. Failure to do so would invalidate the policy.

Selection of which pilots are so honored would be based on aircraft, amount of coverage and other issues. Bet it includes age.

AOPA sure bragged about their efforts to bring about medical reform, they need to talk to one of the major insurers they use.
 
No comments about the Avemco PIREP I received in the Email yesterday?

It said that selected pilots would be required to obtain an annual physical from their own doctors as a condition of the insurance. The Dr would have to do the FAA medical form for each examination. Failure to do so would invalidate the policy.

Selection of which pilots are so honored would be based on aircraft, amount of coverage and other issues. Bet it includes age.

AOPA sure bragged about their efforts to bring about medical reform, they need to talk to one of the major insurers they use.

Don't see the problem. "Selected pilots" in this context usually refers to those who have a rider in their policy that requires an annual flight physical (Class III) as a condition of their coverage. BasicMed doesn't change that--IOW if you have a condition that required an annual Classs III physical then you'll still need an annual physical but you can follow the BasicMed procedures to get it. If you don't have a rider, then AVEMCO has stated that they will honor the provisions of BasicMed-- regular doc, physical every 4 years.

This seems to be the view of most of not all of the aviation insurance industry. From this EAA article:

"The aviation insurance professionals at EAA Insurance Solutions administered by Falcon Insurance Agency, Inc., contacted all of the insurance companies who underwrite aircraft insurance through the independent insurance agency and brokerage community and we found 100 percent of these insurance companies support the new FAA medical reform and they also did not anticipate any change in their underwriting approach to pilots flying owned or non-owned aircraft that will no longer require an FAA medical."
 
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Avemco.... big thumbs down.....

I dropped Avemco years ago when their premiums became so high it was robbery. Falcon has been extraordinarily good and I haven't found anyone with lower premiums.
 
AVEMCO

I one time asked Avemco to quote me a policy on my glider. They had a competitive price, but had an exclusion for off-field landings. So.....what is the point?
 
Dr's and BasicMed

I just got my Class III physical last week. I was thinking it would be my last, but I had an interesting conversation with my AME. I brought it up, saying I wondered how non aviation oriented DR's would feel about the potential liability of signing off a pilot as not having any condition that might impare their ability to fly safely.

The AME said that he had heard that Kaiser and Providence had already instructed their DR's not to participate in BasicMed. The AME felt that many malpractice insurance underwriters may do the same thing. In such a case, the whole plan is going to collapse.

Hope not.
 
What was quoted above was a mis quote.
The article stated that pilots who are required to have annual physicals will still need to see their doctor.

You can all go read the article.

there are some folks out there that because of limits of insurance 100 million are required to have annual physicals.

That's all.
 
I just got my Class III physical last week. I was thinking it would be my last, but I had an interesting conversation with my AME. I brought it up, saying I wondered how non aviation oriented DR's would feel about the potential liability of signing off a pilot as not having any condition that might impare their ability to fly safely.

The AME said that he had heard that Kaiser and Providence had already instructed their DR's not to participate in BasicMed. The AME felt that many malpractice insurance underwriters may do the same thing. In such a case, the whole plan is going to collapse.

Hope not.

The FAA conceded very little in medical requirement change...its just a different path.

They won't, can not, let a pilot self certify. The original premise that if a state issued a drivers license it would be ok. Absolutely not so.

It is not the nature of government to trust anyone and they don't.

The rule change to parts 61, 68, and 91, is 77 pages in length....nothing in life is simple.
 
A little drift....

Which is why I'll stick with getting a class III medical as long as I can. Having my anus probed, genitals fondled, scalp inspected like a monkey, and recordings of my scars, marks, or tattoo's is ridiculous. A whole lot more involved than an AME visit, and more expensive as well.
 
Clarification

Hello. As the author of the Avemco?s article about our handling of the new BasicMed I thought I should try to clear up some misunderstandings about our acceptance of the BasicMed in place of a 3rd Class medical. Here is a link to the article if you?d like to refer to it or read it in the event you were not on our email list for notifications of articles. https://avemco.com/information/blogs/basicmed.aspx

Currently several of Avemco?s customers, because of the combination of pilot and aircraft, do have a requirement on their policy that they get a 3rd class medical every twelve months. Yes, pilot age is a factor as to whether there is a requirement for an annual medical or not. With the BasicMed program our requirement for a 3rd class medical is replaced by the requirement of an annual physical from your physician who needs to complete the BasicMed medical form. We have not added any requirements to any pilots that were not already there with the 3rd class medical.

All of our underwriters are well versed on our acceptance and handling of the BasicMed so if you have questions, even if we don?t insure you, feel free to call us at 800-638-8440.

Thank you,
Mike Adams
 
With the BasicMed program our requirement for a 3rd class medical is replaced by the requirement of an annual physical from your physician who needs to complete the BasicMed medical form. We have not added any requirements to any pilots that were not already there with the 3rd class medical.

These statements don't seem to jibe...3rd class medical calls for physical w/ the AME once every 2 or 3 years. You're saying you require a physical every year w/ BasicMed.
 
A little drift....

Which is why I'll stick with getting a class III medical as long as I can. Having my anus probed, genitals fondled, scalp inspected like a monkey, and recordings of my scars, marks, or tattoo's is ridiculous. A whole lot more involved than an AME visit, and more expensive as well.

Isn't the new language the same language that's in the existing 3rd class medical AME checklist?

Also, someone mentioned that the FAA cannot let us self-certify. Not true; we do it every time we fly, and the FAA has done it for an entire group with Sport Pilot.
 
These statements don't seem to jibe...3rd class medical calls for physical w/ the AME once every 2 or 3 years. You're saying you require a physical every year w/ BasicMed.

Read it again. He said that for some pilots (read 'older') they currently require a third class medical every year, or they won't insure them. For this group they will allow a Basic Med exam every year as an option.

It's pretty much academic; Avemco is not price-competitive in the EAB market.
 
Read it again. He said that for some pilots (read 'older') they currently require a third class medical every year, or they won't insure them. For this group they will allow a Basic Med exam every year as an option.

It's pretty much academic; Avemco is not price-competitive in the EAB market.

Well, it's fairly poorly written, but I see what they're doing now.

And yeah, last year's quote from Avemco was ridiculous compared to others.

On a different note, it will definitely be interesting to see how many people have issues getting their GP to sign off on the checklist...mine's not due now for another couple of years, but at my annual this year I'm going to take the checklist in and see if she'd sign it or not (if not, guess I'll be doctor-shopping).

Let's see...a more comprehensive checklist of items (including useless ones), which may or may not be signed by your doctor depending on how much they're afraid of liability if you crash, not even close to the originally-hoped-for driver's license medical...about the only good thing with this new plan is that you can't actually get "denied" a medical. If your doc won't sign it, just find another one, until you get one who will...
 
...about the only good thing with this new plan is that you can't actually get "denied" a medical. If your doc won't sign it, just find another one, until you get one who will...

And that is a huge change for the better.....especially for those of us who will never see 60 again......
 
These statements don't seem to jibe...3rd class medical calls for physical w/ the AME once every 2 or 3 years. You're saying you require a physical every year w/ BasicMed.

If you read the ENTIRE post you will see that it "jibes" perfectly.

Currently several of Avemco’s customers, because of the combination of pilot and aircraft, do have a requirement on their policy that they get a 3rd class medical every twelve months. Yes, pilot age is a factor as to whether there is a requirement for an annual medical or not. With the BasicMed program our requirement for a 3rd class medical is replaced by the requirement of an annual physical from your physician who needs to complete the BasicMed medical form. We have not added any requirements to any pilots that were not already there with the 3rd class medical.

It only applies if you currently have this "3rd class medical every 12 month" requirement with your insurance policy. If you don't then "no problem".

:cool:
 
Let's see...a more comprehensive checklist of items (including useless ones), which may or may not be signed by your doctor depending on how much they're afraid of liability if you crash, not even close to the originally-hoped-for driver's license medical...about the only good thing with this new plan is that you can't actually get "denied" a medical. If your doc won't sign it, just find another one, until you get one who will...

I am still happy about PBOR for this reason. No they didn't give what we hoped for, but the really ugly stuff is now gone; Denials, special issuance's, crazy stupid tests for various benign conditions, etc.

As mentioned, we may have to doc shop some, but at least there will be a path to a medical for most of us, albeit not as easy as the Light Sport path. I also believe that the AME's will start doing Basic Med exams at the same price as third class and this will help us if the liability issue becomes a problem. Really a win win; AME's get to avoid lost revenue from 3rd class exams and we have a liability tolerant set of Dr's to do the Basic Med exams.

Larry
 
I've never gotten a quote from Avemco that wasn't 75%+ more than what Jenny Brower could quote.

And the last time they didn't even send me the hat.:)

Haven't had the nerve yet to see if I can get insurance under light sport rules. The old third class and the special issuance expires tomorrow. RIP
 
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If you read the ENTIRE post you will see that it "jibes" perfectly.



It only applies if you currently have this "3rd class medical every 12 month" requirement with your insurance policy. If you don't then "no problem".

:cool:

I read it, and it's poorly phrased (but yes, I see what they're saying now, since I read the info at their link):

Currently several of Avemco?s customers...do have a requirement on their policy that they get a 3rd class medical every twelve months. ...With the BasicMed program our requirement for a 3rd class medical is replaced by the requirement of an annual physical from your physician who needs to complete the BasicMed medical form. We have not added any requirements to any pilots that were not already there with the 3rd class medical.

In grammar terms, it's a change of noun case from third person to first person.

And it's still not true...they themselves state in their literature:

Your policy may have a requirement for an annual physical as a condition of insurance because of the type of plane you fly, or your age, hull value, and/or the liability limits on the policy. In that case, the requirement to have a medical every 12 months is our insurance requirement, not the FAA?s.

But wait, didn't they just say:

We have not added any requirements to any pilots that were not already there with the 3rd class medical.

Hmmmm...
 
I also believe that the AME's will start doing Basic Med exams at the same price as third class and this will help us if the liability issue becomes a problem.

I hope so. My AME said no way he would sign such a form due to the liability, whereas if he issues a 3rd class medical, he is only certifying that the patient meets the criteria specified by the government (and he felt that limited his exposure; whether that's true or not, IANAL, but it made sense at the time).
 
Mike,

Thank you for monitoring this forum and taking the time to respond and clarify issues on this thread. I used your services for rental aircraft when learning to fly.

Another big thanks to Avemco for advertising here on VAF. I'm sure it helps keep the lights on around here.

Hello. As the author of the Avemco’s article about our handling of the new BasicMed I thought I should try to clear up some misunderstandings about our acceptance of the BasicMed in place of a 3rd Class medical. Here is a link to the article if you’d like to refer to it or read it in the event you were not on our email list for notifications of articles. https://avemco.com/information/blogs/basicmed.aspx

Currently several of Avemco’s customers, because of the combination of pilot and aircraft, do have a requirement on their policy that they get a 3rd class medical every twelve months. Yes, pilot age is a factor as to whether there is a requirement for an annual medical or not. With the BasicMed program our requirement for a 3rd class medical is replaced by the requirement of an annual physical from your physician who needs to complete the BasicMed medical form. We have not added any requirements to any pilots that were not already there with the 3rd class medical.

All of our underwriters are well versed on our acceptance and handling of the BasicMed so if you have questions, even if we don’t insure you, feel free to call us at 800-638-8440.

Thank you,
Mike Adams
 
I hope so. My AME said no way he would sign such a form due to the liability, whereas if he issues a 3rd class medical, he is only certifying that the patient meets the criteria specified by the government (and he felt that limited his exposure; whether that's true or not, IANAL, but it made sense at the time).

I just got my 3rd class medical renewed and my AME said he would likely perform the Basic Med exams as well.

Joe
 
Regular MD's do physicals for commercial drivers (transport, bus, etc) all the time without entering panic mode.
 
And it's still not true...they themselves state in their literature:

"Your policy may have a requirement for an annual physical as a condition of insurance because of the type of plane you fly, or your age, hull value, and/or the liability limits on the policy. In that case, the requirement to have a medical every 12 months is our insurance requirement, not the FAA’s."

I highlighted the MAY for you. Not will, but MAY have a requirement "in that case".

:cool:
 
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I hope so. My AME said no way he would sign such a form due to the liability, whereas if he issues a 3rd class medical, he is only certifying that the patient meets the criteria specified by the government (and he felt that limited his exposure; whether that's true or not, IANAL, but it made sense at the time).

This is pretty disheartening. If an AME finds too much risk in signing the new forms, how are we going to get family Dr's to sign it. I sure hope this whole thing doesn't unravel due to the FAA going too far with the requirements/form.

Larry
 
I highlighted the MAY for you. Not will, but MAY have a requirement "in that case".

:cool:

These two statements:

"In that case, the requirement to have a medical every 12 months is our insurance requirement, not the FAA?s."

We have not added any requirements to any pilots that were not already there with the 3rd class medical.

are in direct contradiction with each other.

A: We may add requirements beyond the FAA's
B: We didn't add any requirements beyond the FAA's
 
Regular MD's do physicals for commercial drivers (transport, bus, etc) all the time without entering panic mode.

Do they?

Beginning May 21, 2014, drivers will be required to obtain their FMCSA medical examination from a certified medical examiner that is listed on the National Registry.

And the forms and procedures look an awful like AMEs and FAA medicals...
 
These two statements:

are in direct contradiction with each other.

A: We may add requirements beyond the FAA's
B: We didn't add any requirements beyond the FAA's


The two statements are independent of each other. Last try at this; "We have not added any requirements to any pilots that were not already there with the 3rd class medical."

If you have the requirement to get a 3rd class every year it on your policy, then you have to get a physical every year if you decide to use BasicMed. If you don't have the requirement to get a 3rd class every year it on your policy, then you don't have to get one with BasicMed.

:cool:
 

The two statements are independent of each other. Last try at this; "We have not added any requirements to any pilots that were not already there with the 3rd class medical."

If you have the requirement to get a 3rd class every year it on your policy, then you have to get a physical every year if you decide to use BasicMed. If you don't have the requirement to get a 3rd class every year it on your policy, then you don't have to get one with BasicMed.

:cool:

Ah, I see...yes, you're correct...I was parsing it the other way, obviously. My apologies.

Doesn't make much difference to me, though, as I doubt I'll ever use Avemco because of their ridiculously high prices LOL!

Thanks, Galin...
 
Regular MD's do physicals for commercial drivers (transport, bus, etc) all the time without entering panic mode.

Exactly. I get a DOT physical every other year, as it's required to drive a motor vehicle rated over 10,000 GVWR (or truck/trailer over 10,000 GCWR) for any commercial purpose.

Drive down the highway and count the trucks. Next count the billboards offering to sue trucking companies. Now estimate how many complete idiots are weaving in and out between the trucks.

Way more risk than doing flight physicals.
 
The AME said that he had heard that Kaiser and Providence had already instructed their DR's not to participate in BasicMed. The AME felt that many malpractice insurance underwriters may do the same thing. In such a case, the whole plan is going to collapse.

Hope not.

I'd have to see it to believe it. Until then, it's just baseless rumor. I've never dealt with Kaiser or Providence (thankfully), but I've never heard of a network "instructing its doctors" to do or not to do anything at all. In fact, most employment contracts specifically prohibit the network from saying such a thing.

But I'm in the midwest. Perhaps things are different out there.
 
I went through Falcon for years. Dropped them this year in favor of Gallagher because they had (1) a lower rate; (2) better coverage (passenger med limit of $200K instead of $100k. Falcon asked why I was dropping them and I told them then specifics. They didn't respond further after that, which I took to mean that they couldn't equal the deal I got.

I asked Gallagher for smooth coverage (no limit on medical up to full $1M coverage) but they wouldn't do that for my particular situation. Depending on your circumstances, it might be available to you, although I don't know the cost for that.

erich
 
I went through Falcon for years. Dropped them this year in favor of Gallagher because they had (1) a lower rate; (2) better coverage (passenger med limit of $200K instead of $100k. Falcon asked why I was dropping them and I told them then specifics. They didn't respond further after that, which I took to mean that they couldn't equal the deal I got.

I asked Gallagher for smooth coverage (no limit on medical up to full $1M coverage) but they wouldn't do that for my particular situation. Depending on your circumstances, it might be available to you, although I don't know the cost for that.

erich

I was able to go from $100K per passenger liability to $1M CSL for about $400 more. A good deal IMHO. (RV10).
Remember that you are talking about agents, not insurance companies, here. You are buying their service to shop for you, and to help you understand what you are buying. For the record, I use Gallagher and am happy with their service.
 
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