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Getting ready to order some wings! (slow build)

SeanM

Member
I just about have the RV10 emp kit finished up. I'm just waiting on some composite materials to arrive. In the meantime my mind has now turned to the wings. I need to get things in order before I place my order.



Vans Wing kit options-

1. Landing lights- I will probably go with the sunspot LED landing light kit that vans supplies

2. Aileron trim- Will be doing this. "operates independently from autopilot". If I want an AP system does this mean I'll need different servos for that too? At what point do I need to start thinking about an AP system?

3. Float fuel sending units- Will be going this route.


Things I'm starting to look into:

1. Wing and tail position/strobes.
2. Pitot (will probably upgrade to something heated)
3. Stall horn (is this included in the wing kit?)
4. AOA
5. Would like to do a Garmin IFR type setup /w AP, but I need to research this more. should I be looking into this now as well?

When is the right time to get some wiring/crimping tools? Now? Or are they not needed until mid-way through the wings? (I'll probably splurge on the steinair master kit).


Is that a good list? Is there anything else that I should be researching right now?

Thanks
 
I'd hold off on everything deferrable. The landing lights are one of those items, IMO. That technology (LED's) continues to improve at a rapid pace. Order something today and it might be obsolete by the time you're ready to fly.

Strobes are similar.

Yes, the stall warning is included in the wing kit.

On electrical tools, there is no need for them until you are buying avionics. On the other hand, there's no penalty for buying them early.

Avionics? Don't even think about 'em until you're working on the finish kit. What you look at today will be 2 generations out of date by then...
 
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Ditto what Kyle said.

It doesn't hurt to look into the avionics now. The various companies have their operating and installation manuals on line to download. However, as Kyle suggested, they change rapidly and whatever you read now will be out of date to a certain extent, perhaps significantly, when you're ready to buy them.

Dave
 
Stall warning and AOA? I'd ditch the stall warning and just use the AOA. Properly set up, it will be more valuable. I don't believe Garmin G3X is going anywhere, but the screens may improve/change slightly. The Garmin A/P is prolly the best there is.
Aileron trim- My -10 was built with electric rudder trim and it is very functional. I rarely miss the ability to trim the Ailerons. The A/P takes care of that.

~Marc
 
As others said, look now but don?t buy until close to installation. You should count the number of wires you think you?ll be running under the floor or thru the wing, double that number, and run them before closing up the floor or wing.
Aileron trim. This is just a motor driven spring, so yes, you need a separate servo for an autopilot. I have a good (Trio Pro) autopilot and no aileron trim. The only time I miss the lack of trim is when hand flying an instrument approach, but then I really miss it. I may install it at some point.
Stock stall horn is nearly useless with good ANR headsets, AOA is much better. BUT, most AOA systems require in flight calibration, so you may not have it for that first or second flight.
There are lots of good avionics out there. Study the options.
 
Stock stall horn is nearly useless with good ANR headsets.

Going to have to disagree with Bob on this one. I have Bose A20s and can hear the stock stall horn just fine.

I agree with Kyle on deferring as much as possible until later as there's not much that benefits from installation during the wing"s construction other than condutit and perhaps the roll servo (and even that's not a big deal to install later especially if you have not decided on a brand). Items like the landing light or aileron trim are in the it doesn't matter category-- maybe slightly easier to install during wing construction but really it's a wash IMO.
 
The pitot tube - or at least the pitot tube mount - is easier before the skin is riveted.

Going to have to disagree with Bob on this one. I have Bose A20s and can hear the stock stall horn just fine.

Could be my LightSpeeds have better noise attenuation?
Could be my buzzer location under the panel is not optimal?
Could be my 69 year old ears aren’t what they used to be? (my wife votes for this one)
 
Conduits

As others said, look now but don?t buy until close to installation. You should count the number of wires you think you?ll be running under the floor or thru the wing, double that number, and run them before closing up the floor or wing.
....

Having just done this work in the 1/2 built kit I purchased, I would say don't run any wires in the fuselage yet, simply install at least 4 conduits under the rear seats to accommodate future wiring. Vans pre-made bulkhead holes allow easy wiring over the wing spar.

I haven' worked on my QB wings yet, but one conduit should do the job there.
 
Congratulations on completing the empennage kit!

While I elected to use the QB wings kit, I believe it has little bearing on the answers to your questions. So based on my experiences to date, I offer the following comments:

Vans Wing kit options-

1. Landing lights- I will probably go with the sunspot LED landing light kit that vans supplies

As others have noted, LED lighting systems are being improved, so waiting to make final selections is advisable. If you intend to put the lights into the wing tips, (e.g. AeroSun VX landing/taxi lights and Pulsar NS nav lights - the lights I selected) there is no need to finalize these until you are ready to finish and install the wing tips. Note however that with the AeroSun VX you will need to cut into the wing tips to install an enlarged/cut-back opening to accommodate these larger lights. If you intend to place the landing lights into the leading edge of the wings, I suspect it would be easier to make these cuts before attaching the leading edge skins.

2. Aileron trim- Will be doing this. "operates independently from autopilot". If I want an AP system does this mean I'll need different servos for that too? At what point do I need to start thinking about an AP system?

The trim servos are separate from the autopilot servos. With the Garmin G3X system, the trim servos are wired through the AP servos, so that the AP servos can adjust the trim to reduce the forces on the AP servo. I installed the AP servo mounting kit into the right wing prior to installing the bottom skin, which made the installation easier. However, I did not purchase the AP servos until I was ready to purchase all of my avionics system.

I elected to install the roll trim into the right wing (not the left wing as called out in Van's plans), and found it best to install the spring attach points to the aileron push rod before final install of the rod. The trim motor itself attaches to the back of the access plate, so it can be installed at any time.

2. Pitot (will probably upgrade to something heated)

Suggest you purchase and install the pitot mast before installing the bottom wing skin. The actual pitot purchase can wait until much later and be purchased with the rest of the avionics equipment. The standard mast should work with either the Garmin or Dynon/AFS pitot.

3. Stall horn (is this included in the wing kit?)
4. AOA

The Van's wings kit comes with a stall horn assembly. Your call as to the need for both a stall horn and AOA in the same plane. I elected to not install the stall horn, as I believe the AOA provides much better information regarding your approach to stall, and is included in the G3X pitot/EFIS system. If you do not install the stall horn switch, you will need to close the pre-punched holes in the left wing leading edge with a couple of rivets. Note you will need to close these holes in the right wing leading edge in any case. You should do this prior to installing the fuel tanks.

5. Would like to do a Garmin IFR type setup /w AP, but I need to research this more. should I be looking into this now as well?

Avionics are changing rapidly right now, so I would suggest you wait to select your system until you are working on the finishing and/or FWF kit. If you purchase this equipment now, it will likely be obsolete before you are ready to install it. If you are reasonably certain you will use Garmin avionics, I would recommend you purchase and install the AP servo mounting brackets prior to closing up the fuselage top. If you decide to install the Garmin yaw damper servo, you may want to install that mounting unit before you complete the F-1035 assembly area, as doing this later requires drilling out several rivets. Not a significant time savings, but a bit of a nuisance to have to do.

When is the right time to get some wiring/crimping tools? Now? Or are they not needed until mid-way through the wings? (I'll probably splurge on the steinair master kit).

No need to buy the crimping tools now. However, I would suggest you do your electrical system design and run the wires before you close up the fuselage by installing the cabin top. You may find later that you need a few more wires, so suggest you install a conduit or two and perhaps install a few spare wires. I also installed my wing wiring and pitot tubes into the wings before installing the bottom skin, and am glad that I did.

Hope all of the above makes sense to you, and is helpful. If you have questions, please feel free to ask, either through postings are via Private Message.

Enjoy the build.
 
A Caveat to waiting on avionics purchase.

I have done well purchasing used Dynon as many upgrade to HDX Systems and ADS B. If Dynon is on your mind and Classic touch screens buying these as they come available certainly saved me big dollars.

QUOTE=Auburntsts;1228943]Going to have to disagree with Bob on this one. have Bose A20s and can hear the stock stall horn just fine.

I agree with Kyle on deferring as much as possible until later as there's not much that benefits from installation during the wing"s construction other than condutit and perhaps the roll servo (and even that's not a big deal to install later especially if you have not decided on a brand). Items like the landing light or aileron trim are in the it doesn't matter category-- maybe slightly easier to install during wing construction but really it's a wash IMO.[/QUOTE]
 
I'll share some thoughts and what I did for mine.

Vans Wing kit options-

1. Landing lights- I will probably go with the sunspot LED landing light kit that vans supplies
...
1. Wing and tail position/strobes.

What I did here was to use the Ziptips from Aveo, and order my wings without the wingtips. The product they have covers pretty much all your lighting requirements (unless you also want ice lights), with lights in the leading *and* trailing edges of the wingtip - this way I didn't have to run any wires into the rudder. On the downside, this means I'll want to trim down the bottom rudder fairing to remove the larger aft section meant for a light (but that's not required, I could just leave it).

2. Aileron trim- Will be doing this. "operates independently from autopilot". If I want an AP system does this mean I'll need different servos for that too? At what point do I need to start thinking about an AP system?

What I'm doing is considering that I'll *probably* go with a Garmin system, so accounting for the right mounting locations of the AP servos, sometimes leaving rivets out for later installing their brackets, etc.

The aileron servo kit from Vans works fine with most APs out there - in the case of Garmin, you run a pair of (shielded) wires from the AP servo to the trim servo. For me, that meant installing the trim servo on the *right* wing instead of left. Their kit is pretty easy to install, too.


2. Pitot (will probably upgrade to something heated)

This I did get in advance from Garmin, under the assumption that, worst case, I'll need to get a newer one and have wasted $500, but the mounting is pretty standard and shouldn't change. Consider where and how you'll mount it, and if you get one that has a controller box like the Garmin, where that'll go (easy to do before you close up your wings, no need to do that before you order them). Very likely, you'll need to cut a hole in your bottom wing skin for the mast/mount, which will be way easier to do before they're riveted on (post where I did mine: https://www.airplane.build/2016/09/bottom-wing-skins-pitot-mount-and-flap.html )

Also, as you're building, it's very important to plan where the tubes will go through - if you need an additional set of holes for AoA, for instance, it'll be much, much easier to drill those before your wings are closed up. The wings come with one set of holes for pitot, but the Van's suggested pitot tube is very simplistic.

3. Stall horn (is this included in the wing kit?)
4. AOA

The horn is included, but you'll find various discussions on how people haven't been installing them, in favor of an AoA pitot tube which will give you similar information. Should still be easy to install later if you so decide (it's installed in the first area outboard of the fuel tank, so you'd just have to remove the tank)

5. Would like to do a Garmin IFR type setup /w AP, but I need to research this more. should I be looking into this now as well?

Take a look at what the systems look like - what the components are, where they have to be mounted, how they're connected, etc. but you can leave detailed planning for later.

When is the right time to get some wiring/crimping tools? Now? Or are they not needed until mid-way through the wings? (I'll probably splurge on the steinair master kit).

It's fine to leave for later, or to get now, up to you. There's almost nothing that you can't wire up later, if you're ok with working through inspection holes. Both the AP and trim servos go on or next to inspection holes, and you can probably install your heated pitot next to one as well.

Is that a good list? Is there anything else that I should be researching right now?

Here are a few other things I considered (but didn't necessarily choose to do) - links to my own build:
- Wing stands (so you don't take up 4-8 large workbenches to keep your wings on, and also to keep them later after they're complete). Relevant link: https://www.airplane.build/2016/06/wing-stand.html
- Conduits: Also a debated topic, some people love it, some say it's wasted weight :) I personally found them convenient and ran two through each wing (one for power, one for data and antenna cables). Link: https://www.airplane.build/2017/05/wing-ribs-almost-complete.html
- Antennas: where do you plan to put yours? A lot of builders put a Bob Archer NAV antenna in the wingtip, which may be relevant for planning how you'll run wires later. Link: https://www.airplane.build/2015/11/research-antennas.html
- Magnetometer: the two common places to install it are either inside the tailcone or on the wingtip.
- Fuel caps: the ones provided by Vans are horrible in both appearance and operation. Consider whether you'll want some other model before you build your tanks.
- Static discharge: this is a highly debated topic :) but IF you decide you want to install static wicks, check out Dayton Granger's recommendation for where to install them, and plan accordingly. You can probably get 2 or 3 wicks and use them for measuring/verifying the mounting holes during the build, then only get the full number you need when you're ready to fly. Likewise, IF you decide you want bonding straps, especially on the ailerons, consider where those will go as you're building.
- De-icing: an uncommon option, but a leading-edge deice kit does exist for the RV10. It's heavy and expensive, including an additional alternator, but if you fly frequently in icing conditions (and you have a matching solution for the tail and prop in that regard), you can consider it. I'm not installing one, at least until the day I decide to fly to the SCRM airport :)
- Fuel return line: unless you're already decided on going with the standard engines offered by Van's (IO-540 or similar) with the standard fuel injection, you may want to leave yourself the option of having a fuel return line - most Diesels require one (e.g. the shiny new Continental CD230), and so do electronic fuel injection systems. Having at least a fuel return port in your tank leaves you that option for later (and if you don't need it, just put a cap on the port). Link: https://www.airplane.build/2016/11/fuel-tank-assembly-complete.html
 
5. Would like to do a Garmin IFR type setup /w AP, but I need to research this more. should I be looking into this now as well?

Definitely start looking now, but don't purchase until about six months before you need them. Technology and vendor competitiveness changes very dynamically. For four years during by build I was pretty sure what EFIS vendor I was going to go with on my RV-10. Then market dynamics changes, pricing changed, deals changed, etc., and I went with a different vendor.

When is the right time to get some wiring/crimping tools? Now? Or are they not needed until mid-way through the wings? (I'll probably splurge on the steinair master kit).


They aren't needed now, but if you like to collect good tools you may want to start shopping now. For example, take a look at the cost of the Daniels crimper and positioners that are on Stein's site. You can get these off Ebay for about half the price if you are diligent shopping and avoid bids above your set targets. It took me about six months to get the crimper and all the needed positioners off Ebay at the price points I was willing to pay. Buying the AMP crimper for the faston connectors off Ebay will save a you money as well.

Yes, you can do the job will less expensive tools. However, I've found the better tools I have, the quality of work performed and ease of use tends to be better. But I will also admit, that I'm tool junkie.
 
Stall Warner

As others have said, the stall horn is pretty much useless if you have an AOA and ANR headsets, however, I’d still recommend installing the stall warner itself, but ditch the horn and just wire it as a discrete input to your EFIS. The Garmin G3X has a Stall Alert preconfigured and you would select that for your particular discrete input.

Another good reason to hold off on buying components, such as avionics, until you need them is warranty. There’s no sense letting them sit on a shelf with the clock running when you can get just about any of these avionics with a short lead time.

These are exciting times.
 
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