Kitfoxbill
Active Member
Does anyone have a good way to label the switches on the panel and side switch rest?
Van's Air Force
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Labeling panel and switches
- Thread starter Kitfoxbill
- Start date
There have been quite a few good posts in the forums on this in the past, so I bet if you search on "Labels", you'll get a lot of good ideas.
I went with a Brother labeler (black on clear, or white on clear tape) because I had the feeling that the labels might change as the work and testing went on - and I was right. Certainly is not as fancy as engraving the panels, or silk-screening, but unless you look really close, you can't see th tape, and if I do need to change something, it is quick and easy.
Paul
I went with a Brother labeler (black on clear, or white on clear tape) because I had the feeling that the labels might change as the work and testing went on - and I was right. Certainly is not as fancy as engraving the panels, or silk-screening, but unless you look really close, you can't see th tape, and if I do need to change something, it is quick and easy.
Paul
Bill, Paul is right....those switches have a tendency to change. I used a P-touch and black on clear tape (pic below).
http://www.vansairforce.net/N617ARVirtualTour/ADI_panel.jpg
http://www.vansairforce.net/N617ARVirtualTour/ADI_panel.jpg
Ooh, I like the idea from down under! My P-touch will make those little boxes as well and I guess I could just do the cutting with the scissors. By the way, am I the only one who thinks the name "p-touch" is a little weird? Sounds like some type of codeword you'd use at the massage parlor. 
I'm a long ways from doing my panel, but I have done a fair amount of experimentation on this subject. I tried several methods of printing using an inkjet printer, including clear labels, normal paper, and photo paper. The clear labels were more translucent than transparent. The photo paper allowed colored labels that looked like an engraved plastic name tag. I had a few tests that produced nearly acceptable results, but I could see the edges of the labels, so I looked at other options.
I thought doing my own silkscreen would be nice, and I experimented with the PhotoEZ stuff at:
http://www.ezscreenprint.com/
This works, but I have still not gotten consistent perfect results. Pretty good, but not perfect.
Then, I got a link off of a thread in this forum to Mark and Dave's RV at:
http://www.4sierratango.com/panel3.htm
They seemed to be pretty happy with the DecalPro stuff at:
http://www.pulsar.gs/index.html
I bought their PCB package and got great results doing Printed circuit boards. Then I bought their normal Decal transfer stuff, and done a bit of experimentation. I am still working on the process, since I almost always loose a part of a character or two in the transfer, but I am pretty sure that I will go with this.
BTW, with all of my experiments, I have spent way more money than if I had just let a professional do this for me, but then I like the experimentation part.
Tracy.
I thought doing my own silkscreen would be nice, and I experimented with the PhotoEZ stuff at:
http://www.ezscreenprint.com/
This works, but I have still not gotten consistent perfect results. Pretty good, but not perfect.
Then, I got a link off of a thread in this forum to Mark and Dave's RV at:
http://www.4sierratango.com/panel3.htm
They seemed to be pretty happy with the DecalPro stuff at:
http://www.pulsar.gs/index.html
I bought their PCB package and got great results doing Printed circuit boards. Then I bought their normal Decal transfer stuff, and done a bit of experimentation. I am still working on the process, since I almost always loose a part of a character or two in the transfer, but I am pretty sure that I will go with this.
BTW, with all of my experiments, I have spent way more money than if I had just let a professional do this for me, but then I like the experimentation part.
Tracy.
aparchment
Well Known Member
Dymo
Anyone know how the Dymo label material holds up? I was thinking of using the clear tape with black lettering, then clearing over it.
Anyone know how the Dymo label material holds up? I was thinking of using the clear tape with black lettering, then clearing over it.
I feel the cheapest, easiest way to 'professional' looking labels is to make your own using print-your-own decal sheets.
http://beldecal.stores.yahoo.net/moddecpap.html
You can use pretty much any word processor to create them. You can test print as many times as you need on plain paper before commiting to the actual decal sheets. I know one guy who color printed his labels on plain paper then took that sheet and a decal sheet to Staples and had the plain paper copied onto the decal sheet with a color laser for less than 1$.
http://beldecal.stores.yahoo.net/moddecpap.html
You can use pretty much any word processor to create them. You can test print as many times as you need on plain paper before commiting to the actual decal sheets. I know one guy who color printed his labels on plain paper then took that sheet and a decal sheet to Staples and had the plain paper copied onto the decal sheet with a color laser for less than 1$.
Actually, the DecalPro stuff works pretty good on textured finishes. My test strips have been several different types and colors of textured Rustoleum, plus a few smooth surface paints. The textured paints are not quite as coarse as the krinkle finish. The decals stick to the textured paint just as well as the non-textured paints.
The reason that the DecalPro decals do a good job on a textured surface is that there is no clear backing for the decal once it is applied to the panel. The plastic carrier is simply used to transfer the pattern, it does not stay on the surface after the decal is applied.
This was one of the problems that I had with using clear labels over textured paint, which is why I looked at screen printing and decals. Unfortunately, I have not had time to document my experiments, yet, but I will sometime soon. However, Mark did a pretty good write up of his experiments on his website. He tried a number of things before he decided to go with the DecalPro decals.
Tracy.
The reason that the DecalPro decals do a good job on a textured surface is that there is no clear backing for the decal once it is applied to the panel. The plastic carrier is simply used to transfer the pattern, it does not stay on the surface after the decal is applied.
This was one of the problems that I had with using clear labels over textured paint, which is why I looked at screen printing and decals. Unfortunately, I have not had time to document my experiments, yet, but I will sometime soon. However, Mark did a pretty good write up of his experiments on his website. He tried a number of things before he decided to go with the DecalPro decals.
Tracy.
N941WR
Legacy Member
I too am using the DecalPro but have been struggling with the learning curve. There are a LOT of steps to this process and if you miss any one of them your decal will not work out.
Luckily you can lift the label off with 3M blue painters tape w/in an hour of application w/o messing anything up.
The labels are crisp and clear and just look very professional.
As a side note, I was struggling with the label process and sent Frank Miller (Pulsar owner/pilot/builder wantabe) an email on Saturday evening. Not only did I get a reply Sunday morning he called me to help work through the process. Now that is customer service!
Luckily you can lift the label off with 3M blue painters tape w/in an hour of application w/o messing anything up.
The labels are crisp and clear and just look very professional.
As a side note, I was struggling with the label process and sent Frank Miller (Pulsar owner/pilot/builder wantabe) an email on Saturday evening. Not only did I get a reply Sunday morning he called me to help work through the process. Now that is customer service!
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Davepar
Well Known Member
I also purchased the Decal Pro a while back based on Mark's write up. I've done a few experiments with it with pretty good success, but will start doing some real labeling soon.
That's a great tip about the blue tape. It's true there are a lot of steps, especially when you want a white label. Too bad color laser printers don't do white.
Bill, I was looking at the sample label sheet on your site. I remember one tip in the Decal Pro instructions said to try putting a sacrificial box around each label. That way if there's any separation around the edges, it will happen on the box and not on your actual label. Then right before applying the label, cut off the box.
That's a great tip about the blue tape. It's true there are a lot of steps, especially when you want a white label. Too bad color laser printers don't do white.
Bill, I was looking at the sample label sheet on your site. I remember one tip in the Decal Pro instructions said to try putting a sacrificial box around each label. That way if there's any separation around the edges, it will happen on the box and not on your actual label. Then right before applying the label, cut off the box.
Scott Will
Well Known Member
Where to get it
Where can one buy DecalPro?
Would it be that much better than using my Brother P-Touch labeler? (that my 1.5 year old thinks is a really cool computer!)
Where can one buy DecalPro?
Would it be that much better than using my Brother P-Touch labeler? (that my 1.5 year old thinks is a really cool computer!)
Davepar
Well Known Member
Decal Pro is available at:
http://www.pulsar.gs/index.html
Here's the difference between the Decal Pro and the P-touch. The P-touch prints onto a mylar carrier and you stick that carrier to the panel. Most builders seem to add a box around the label and then cut the carrier along the box to hide the edge.
The Decal Pro process glues just the lettering to your panel. There's a mylar carrier, but that's used just to transfer the lettering and then it peels off. I haven't used a P-touch, but I believe the Decal Pro is also more flexible. Anything you can print on a laser printer can be a label, including a color laser printer. The toner from the printer is the label. The only exception is if you want a white or metallic label, which a printer can't do. You add a step to the process to adhere those colors from a sheet on top of the label before transferring it to the panel.
There are some videos on the Decal Pro site that help explain it a little better. There's nothing special about the laminator. The unique parts of the kit are the thin mylar film, the transfer paper, and the colored sheets (if needed).
This ended up sounding like more of a sales pitch than I intended. I've only experimented with the system a little bit so far. I don't know about long term durability yet.
http://www.pulsar.gs/index.html
Here's the difference between the Decal Pro and the P-touch. The P-touch prints onto a mylar carrier and you stick that carrier to the panel. Most builders seem to add a box around the label and then cut the carrier along the box to hide the edge.
The Decal Pro process glues just the lettering to your panel. There's a mylar carrier, but that's used just to transfer the lettering and then it peels off. I haven't used a P-touch, but I believe the Decal Pro is also more flexible. Anything you can print on a laser printer can be a label, including a color laser printer. The toner from the printer is the label. The only exception is if you want a white or metallic label, which a printer can't do. You add a step to the process to adhere those colors from a sheet on top of the label before transferring it to the panel.
There are some videos on the Decal Pro site that help explain it a little better. There's nothing special about the laminator. The unique parts of the kit are the thin mylar film, the transfer paper, and the colored sheets (if needed).
This ended up sounding like more of a sales pitch than I intended. I've only experimented with the system a little bit so far. I don't know about long term durability yet.
Paul Eastham
Well Known Member
I have given up on DecalPro and returned the system. I spent many, many hours experimenting and was in constant contact with the proprietor but could not make it work for my particular needs.
Each color behaves differently. With white decals, I could not accomplish the basic steps of applying the pigment without big quality problems.
When I switched to gray (which looks good against a black panel, I think) I had more success, but then had big consistency problems when trying to apply the final decal to the panel. Most of the time it mostly stuck, other times not. Problem was, I was not able to remove the botched decal without damaging the panel paint (rustoleum "professional grade") -- the pigment fused into the paint.
So with any errors requiring a repaint, it would take me years before I got done. P-touch it is for me...
Don't get me wrong, it's a neat (though extremely complex) system if you can make it work. Some of the other pigments/foils (red metallic, for instance) work much better but don't quite fit for this application
Each color behaves differently. With white decals, I could not accomplish the basic steps of applying the pigment without big quality problems.
When I switched to gray (which looks good against a black panel, I think) I had more success, but then had big consistency problems when trying to apply the final decal to the panel. Most of the time it mostly stuck, other times not. Problem was, I was not able to remove the botched decal without damaging the panel paint (rustoleum "professional grade") -- the pigment fused into the paint.
So with any errors requiring a repaint, it would take me years before I got done. P-touch it is for me...
Don't get me wrong, it's a neat (though extremely complex) system if you can make it work. Some of the other pigments/foils (red metallic, for instance) work much better but don't quite fit for this application
FWIW, I was going to order a test decal kit from beldecal (http://beldecal.stores.yahoo.net/moddecpap.html), but decided not to when the shipping came out to be $29 on a $23 order.
A few things that I have found helps with DecalPro are as follows. First, when trying to do white lettering, I was getting a lot of white were there was no ink, which requires the use of the tape to pull it off prior to doing the mylar step. There was so much white that it was nearly impossible to get it all off. Looking at the instructions closer, I decided the problem was moisture in the paper. I had been using a hair dryer to dry the paper, but the instructions said this would take longer, so I tried putting the paper in the oven at 350 degrees for a minute. This fixed the problem with the white transfer sticking where it shouldn't, and I was able to get a perfect white letter decal.
The other problem that I have is when transferrig the image from the mylar carrier to the test panel, I almost always have at least one character or line where part of the image stayed with the mylar (i.e., missng part of the image in the final product). I tried really pushing the image into the test panel, but this did not seem to help. Then I tried not pressing so hardl, and I finally got a perfect transfer. I just need to be able to repeat this every time.
YMMV,
Tracy.
A few things that I have found helps with DecalPro are as follows. First, when trying to do white lettering, I was getting a lot of white were there was no ink, which requires the use of the tape to pull it off prior to doing the mylar step. There was so much white that it was nearly impossible to get it all off. Looking at the instructions closer, I decided the problem was moisture in the paper. I had been using a hair dryer to dry the paper, but the instructions said this would take longer, so I tried putting the paper in the oven at 350 degrees for a minute. This fixed the problem with the white transfer sticking where it shouldn't, and I was able to get a perfect white letter decal.
The other problem that I have is when transferrig the image from the mylar carrier to the test panel, I almost always have at least one character or line where part of the image stayed with the mylar (i.e., missng part of the image in the final product). I tried really pushing the image into the test panel, but this did not seem to help. Then I tried not pressing so hardl, and I finally got a perfect transfer. I just need to be able to repeat this every time.
YMMV,
Tracy.
frankh
Well Known Member
Use your printer
I used the colour laser printer at work (I used a colour inkjet on my last airplane). You make your lables in MS Word, draw a nice box around each label.
Print the labels on a single clear label sheet and print.
Eaxacto knoive the labels out and use masking tape to pick up the labels and keep them aligned.
Then stick 'em on.
If your labels curl up (my last ones still looked good after 7 years) simply print out another set from the MS Word file you saved..
I have to repaint my new panel...Arrgh cus the paint was ****!...But the labels are areleady stored in my laptop...
I used a blue box around my labels and a clear sheet so it shows the panel colour through...Looks hot!
Frank
I used the colour laser printer at work (I used a colour inkjet on my last airplane). You make your lables in MS Word, draw a nice box around each label.
Print the labels on a single clear label sheet and print.
Eaxacto knoive the labels out and use masking tape to pick up the labels and keep them aligned.
Then stick 'em on.
If your labels curl up (my last ones still looked good after 7 years) simply print out another set from the MS Word file you saved..
I have to repaint my new panel...Arrgh cus the paint was ****!...But the labels are areleady stored in my laptop...
I used a blue box around my labels and a clear sheet so it shows the panel colour through...Looks hot!
Frank
Scott Will
Well Known Member
Frank... that may be the way I go since we have a nice color laser at work. What brand of clear label sheet worked best for you?
Thanks,
Scott
Thanks,
Scott
N941WR
Legacy Member
Yes, I have since put that box around my labels, every one.Davepar said:
Frank sent me some updated instructions I am going to try today or tomorrow for the white labels. I plan on posting my results on my web site shortly there after.
Part of what he told me on Sunday was to vigorously buff the clear transparency after using the Goo Gone and to cut them with a cutting board, not scissors. Picked up a board on Monday but haven't played with it yet although my wife was excited because she can use it with her scrap booking.
Greg,
When I put in the order and got to the end, it showed $29 for shipping. I tried to select air instead of ground and it still came out to $29. Hmm, maybe I did not select USA.
Tracy.
Edit 8-9-06: nope, I tried it again and it still comes up $29 shipping, $51 total. I looked at their shipping info page and it says $6 in the US, but their order form shows $29.
When I put in the order and got to the end, it showed $29 for shipping. I tried to select air instead of ground and it still came out to $29. Hmm, maybe I did not select USA.
Tracy.
Edit 8-9-06: nope, I tried it again and it still comes up $29 shipping, $51 total. I looked at their shipping info page and it says $6 in the US, but their order form shows $29.
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N941WR
Legacy Member
Tracy,thallock said:
I had the same problem and it drove me CRAZY but the trick is to dry the blue carrier board with a heat gun on low prior to running it through the laminator for the first time. Even then you might/will get some left over white.
In talking with Frank it turns out the thing works on static electricity and the more static you impart on the clear Mylar through the Goo Gone the better.
So far I have spent 10 hours just testing and learning with a few more hours to go before I put any on the panel. I?ve been using test pieces and because my paint is textured, this is really my only option so I will stick with it until it works.
Frank really wants to penetrate the homebuilt market and is working up some better instructions, including videos, which he has sent me and asked me to preview for accuracy and helpfulness. I will do that this evening and report back as to my success.
There is hope in this process but it is difficult and will take some time to learn, kind of like learning to rivet.
Ok, I went to
http://www.beldecal.com/
instead of the original website at
http://beldecal.stores.yahoo.net/moddecpap.html
and I was able to place an order for 20 sheets for $14 plus $8 shipping. Another $25 experiment.
Tracy.
http://www.beldecal.com/
instead of the original website at
http://beldecal.stores.yahoo.net/moddecpap.html
and I was able to place an order for 20 sheets for $14 plus $8 shipping. Another $25 experiment.
Tracy.
If you want something REALLY special check this out, I'm afraid to ask how much although I'm ordering my rocker switch caps from them.
http://www.engravers.net/aircraft/custom-placards.htm
although I'm ordering my rocker switch caps from them. http://www.engravers.net/aircraft/custom-placards.htm
Kitfoxbill
Active Member
Thanks for all the great ways to accomplish this task.
William Bennett
Finished wiring today.
William Bennett
Finished wiring today.
N941WR
Legacy Member
It Does Work!
I have spent a LOT of time learning how to make labels with the Pulsar label making system. It is a pain but after a while you figure it out and they actually do come out nice.
Click on this picture to see what I accomplished today.
On the panel page of my site I detail all the steps you have to go through to make them. Believe me, it is complex and it takes practice!
I have spent a LOT of time learning how to make labels with the Pulsar label making system. It is a pain but after a while you figure it out and they actually do come out nice.
Click on this picture to see what I accomplished today.
On the panel page of my site I detail all the steps you have to go through to make them. Believe me, it is complex and it takes practice!
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I just wanted to update the thread on my progress working with the DecalPro labels. The first time I mentioned DecalPro, I said I was having problems getting perfect results. The owner of DecalPro left me a phone message that day, so I called him back, and he had a number of suggestions to help me out. It took a few more sessions making labels, but I can now say that I am getting perfect results, just about every time. I say just about, because with any label system, it is possible to make a mistake. Even simple clear printed labels can get smeared or cockeyed, and water slide decals can be torn (I know).
The two major problems that I had were with the white labels leaving white where there was no image, and a problem with images lifting when removing the mylar backing while transferring the image to the panel surface. The white labels were fixed by using a heat gun (not a hair dryer) to dry the decal paper prior to transferring the white foil to the decal image.
The problem with parts of the image not sticking to the panel surface was solved by the following steps:
1) after transferring the foil to the decal, use a paper towel with a little alcohol to clean the foil on the decal (I think this really solved my problem)
2) get the mylar absolutely clean (very important)
3) spray the right amount of adhesive on the mylar (the website has a new video on this--light coat was better)
4) spray a small amount of adhesive on the target surface before applying the mylar-backed image (may or may not have helped)
5) firmly press the image to the panel surface using my fingernail
The real key to this system is to get a good static adhesion between the image foil and the temporay mylar carrier, but have a clean mylar surface so the image will release from the mylar carrier when applied to the final surface. Once you get the technique down, the results are beautiful.
The thing that is really great about the DecalPro process is that it is equivalent to silkscreened labels. There is no backing to hold the labels once they are applied. Only the inked parts of the image are transferred to the panel. This gives you the ability to have white labels on a dark panel.
If anyone has questions about this process, just ask, and I will help if I can.
Cheers,
Tracy.
The two major problems that I had were with the white labels leaving white where there was no image, and a problem with images lifting when removing the mylar backing while transferring the image to the panel surface. The white labels were fixed by using a heat gun (not a hair dryer) to dry the decal paper prior to transferring the white foil to the decal image.
The problem with parts of the image not sticking to the panel surface was solved by the following steps:
1) after transferring the foil to the decal, use a paper towel with a little alcohol to clean the foil on the decal (I think this really solved my problem)
2) get the mylar absolutely clean (very important)
3) spray the right amount of adhesive on the mylar (the website has a new video on this--light coat was better)
4) spray a small amount of adhesive on the target surface before applying the mylar-backed image (may or may not have helped)
5) firmly press the image to the panel surface using my fingernail
The real key to this system is to get a good static adhesion between the image foil and the temporay mylar carrier, but have a clean mylar surface so the image will release from the mylar carrier when applied to the final surface. Once you get the technique down, the results are beautiful.
The thing that is really great about the DecalPro process is that it is equivalent to silkscreened labels. There is no backing to hold the labels once they are applied. Only the inked parts of the image are transferred to the panel. This gives you the ability to have white labels on a dark panel.
If anyone has questions about this process, just ask, and I will help if I can.
Cheers,
Tracy.
Here's an update on the BelCal water slide decals that I ordered. I placed an order for 20 mixed decal sheets. That was supposed to be 10 clear and 10 white. I received 23 white sheets, so I could only test the white decals.
The good news is that they are easy to use, and they work really good. The white ink jet decal paper produced nice images and letters using a standard HP970 ink jet printer. You spray the image with Krylon clear enamel (I think that is what I have) and the decal is water proof. The decal is very thin and seemed to fill in the holes in the surface caused by the hammered finish Rustoleum that I am using for the tests. I did not try it on the Rustoleum textured paint, but I suspect it would not do so well with that paint.
Of course, the background is white, so if you want to just see white labels, then you have to match the background to your panel color. I was not able to get a good match with the Rustoleum hammered gray paint that I was using for the tests. So the white decals would be useless for my application.
What I really needed was the clear labels, but BelCal screwed-up my order, and I did not get any clear labels. I sent them an email last Thursday, and did not get a response, so I called them on Friday. Unfortunately, the Service Department was "not available". They were "not available" on Monday or Tuesday, either. When you press the key for the operator, you get a message to "leave a message". Hey, if these idiots will not answer my email, why would they call me back?
At this point, all I can say is I would not order anything else from these idiots, no matter how good their product works. If this is the kind of service that we can expect, then we should take our business somewhere else. Unfortunately, BelCal has several websites, masqarading as different companies, but they all have the same phone number. It really makes me mad when companies do business like this, and they do not deserve to be in business. My advice is to avoid these guys at all costs, but that is just my opinion--YMMV.
Tracy.
The good news is that they are easy to use, and they work really good. The white ink jet decal paper produced nice images and letters using a standard HP970 ink jet printer. You spray the image with Krylon clear enamel (I think that is what I have) and the decal is water proof. The decal is very thin and seemed to fill in the holes in the surface caused by the hammered finish Rustoleum that I am using for the tests. I did not try it on the Rustoleum textured paint, but I suspect it would not do so well with that paint.
Of course, the background is white, so if you want to just see white labels, then you have to match the background to your panel color. I was not able to get a good match with the Rustoleum hammered gray paint that I was using for the tests. So the white decals would be useless for my application.
What I really needed was the clear labels, but BelCal screwed-up my order, and I did not get any clear labels. I sent them an email last Thursday, and did not get a response, so I called them on Friday. Unfortunately, the Service Department was "not available". They were "not available" on Monday or Tuesday, either. When you press the key for the operator, you get a message to "leave a message". Hey, if these idiots will not answer my email, why would they call me back?
At this point, all I can say is I would not order anything else from these idiots, no matter how good their product works. If this is the kind of service that we can expect, then we should take our business somewhere else. Unfortunately, BelCal has several websites, masqarading as different companies, but they all have the same phone number. It really makes me mad when companies do business like this, and they do not deserve to be in business. My advice is to avoid these guys at all costs, but that is just my opinion--YMMV.
Tracy.
Tracy,
Here is another vendor that may be able to do better.
http://www.papilio.com/index.html
Also a bit more local to you.
Here is another vendor that may be able to do better.
http://www.papilio.com/index.html
Also a bit more local to you.
N941WR
Legacy Member
It is looking better and better with each day.
The only thing left to label is the carb heat and that will have to wait until I have a carb heat to label.
In addition, I labeled the cabin heat, then installed the cable. Turns out it twists around so my label is not level. Either I will have to fly the -9 upside down or re-label it.
Anyway, click on the picture to enlarge:
The only thing left to label is the carb heat and that will have to wait until I have a carb heat to label.
In addition, I labeled the cabin heat, then installed the cable. Turns out it twists around so my label is not level. Either I will have to fly the -9 upside down or re-label it.
Anyway, click on the picture to enlarge:
