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DAR inspection

Carlos151

Well Known Member
Friend
Time to start filing FAA paperwork for registration and inspection of my RV8 and I have a question about DAR's.
FAA states the DAR may be located in my geographical area. Does that mean the DAR has to operate with the FSDO in my FAA designated region or can they come from anywhere in the nation?
Only one DAR in the Richmond, VA FSDO area. Four are listed in neighboring NC but that's a different FSDO office.
 
Geographic Expansion for DARs

Normally a DAR-T (FSDO Dar) can only operate within his FSDO area. However, a "geographic expansion" allows a DAR to operate in another area and is a coordination paperwork between 2 FSDOs.

Answer then is to contact those DARs and see if one is willing to request expansion.
 
Karl,

I think there's a DAR in Maryland who works in this area that's supposed to be reasonable to deal with. You might check with Dwayne Goss, the airport manager at New Kent for contact info and details of his inspection. It's been a few years but I believe he used that DAR when he applied for his airworthiness certificate on his 8 and was pleased.
 
Many DARs are allowed to do inspections outside their area. I personally go all over, as long as the applicant pays travel expenses.
 
Same as Mel

Getting a geographical extension to inspect a project is really no big deal for DAR's, and it makes sense to have someone who understands your particular aircraft as opposed to just being the local DAR. It really can mean the difference between a fun first flight and a not-so-fun first flight.

Vic
 
Just be aware that once you have engaged a DAR, you cannot really change that DAR. You cannot "shop" DAR's once you start working with a DAR.
 
Just be aware that once you have engaged a DAR, you cannot really change that DAR. You cannot "shop" DAR's once you start working with a DAR.

Why not? You mean once I make the first phone call or email, I'm stuck with whomever I first contact?

Don't think so...until they're out there actually inspecting the plane and filling out the paperwork, I'd say you can change your mind and get another DAR at any point if you don't care for the first one's approach/attitude/availability/whatever.
 
Why not? You mean once I make the first phone call or email, I'm stuck with whomever I first contact?

Don't think so...until they're out there actually inspecting the plane and filling out the paperwork, I'd say you can change your mind and get another DAR at any point if you don't care for the first one's approach/attitude/availability/whatever.

When I had mine done in 2001 I had to send a letter to the FSDO requesting to use that DAR. It's probably that or something like it that provides the restriction. I'm sure you could request a change but would probably need a reason to satisfy the bureaucrats.
 
Timely thread for me - - Is there an advantage to using the DAR as opposed to someone "maintenance inspector"? (not sure of title) from the FDSO?

Can the DAR issue the repairman certificate on the spot?

Thanks

edit: I have ordered the EAA package, but have not gotten it yet.
 
Timely thread for me - - Is there an advantage to using the DAR as opposed to someone "maintenance inspector"? (not sure of title) from the FDSO?

An FAA inspector from the FSDO is free --your tax dollars already paid for their services. That being said, E-AB certification is not a priority so it may take a few weeks to get them to come out and their schedules may be less flexible.

Can the DAR issue the repairman certificate on the spot?
No. Only the FSDO can issue the repairman's certificate. A DAR can't do it at all.
 
A DAR may not issue a repairman certificate. However he can help.

I issue a letter of recommendation, help you fill out the application, and furnish complete instruction on how to go about it.
This makes things go very smoothly as many of the FAA guys don't have a clue as to how to do it.
 
Why not? You mean once I make the first phone call or email, I'm stuck with whomever I first contact?

Don't think so...until they're out there actually inspecting the plane and filling out the paperwork, I'd say you can change your mind and get another DAR at any point if you don't care for the first one's approach/attitude/availability/whatever.

Wow. Sorry you feel that way, but the first answer was accurate. There's a lot of paperwork that a DAR performs prior to actually showing up at the airplane. That is not the time to decide you don't like the person. We actually work with our customers and agree to do the inspection way ahead of time. That is the appropriate time when you might decide you have a "conflict" with the DAR, and perhaps he/she with you.

But, I've never had that happen yet. The final inspection is a really important milestone for the builder and I try to make it as easy and as much fun as possible for everyone, and I bet most of the other DAR's are the same. :)

Vic
 
Wow. Sorry you feel that way, but the first answer was accurate. There's a lot of paperwork that a DAR performs prior to actually showing up at the airplane. That is not the time to decide you don't like the person. We actually work with our customers and agree to do the inspection way ahead of time. That is the appropriate time when you might decide you have a "conflict" with the DAR, and perhaps he/she with you.

But, I've never had that happen yet. The final inspection is a really important milestone for the builder and I try to make it as easy and as much fun as possible for everyone, and I bet most of the other DAR's are the same. :)

Vic

I don't think it's common, and I had a great experience with my DAR, but there have been times when people have had less-than-pleasant experiences with DARs, *prior to* the actual inspection and approval/denial of AW Cert. A quick search here will turn those up...and the information that you're not in some sort of contractual agreement with them, and you, the customer, are free to change DARs if you don't like what's happening (I recall several of these stories here...totally unreasonable requests from the DAR, up to and including wanting to do an engine tear-down before inspection/approval; the universal consensus was that the victim, er, customer was free to cancel the services of the DAR and get a new one).

I agree the DAR does quite a bit prior to inspection, based on my working with mine, and that *at* the inspection would be a really bad time to figure out you don't want to continue with that particular DAR.

But saying that once you've "engaged" one you're stuck with them come **** or high water isn't true, AFAIK.

ETA: See this thread, especially starting at post 98

Once you have given the inspector a signed application (8130-6) he must either issue or deny the certificate. If this is a DAR, you are required to pay the fee either way. If the certificate is denied, you are free to find another inspector, but he will be aware of the reason for denial. You will either have to convince him that the problem is invalid or has been taken care of.

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=64214&highlight=DAR+8130-6

I would say that *prior to* giving the inspector/DAR a signed application, I'm free to go to another DAR if I don't like the way things are going (with possibly paying part of the fee, depending on any agreement w/ the original DAR).

Do you disagree?
 
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Youa re the customer

Only because you asked... :)

Here's how it works, at least for me. I am authorized by the Atlanta MIDO to perform your inspection AFTER you send them the signed 8130-6, along with a note that I have agreed to do the inspection. You and I will know LONG before this point if there are any issues that might cause you to seek out another DAR. Why? Because we have been working together already and I have been coaching you on all of the paperwork and steps needed to insure an enjoyable experience.

But once you submit the 8130-6 to the FAA and it gets assigned to a DAR, then you work with that DAR through Issuance or Denial. If denied, you are always able to seek out another DAR, but as someone mentioned, that DAR will know of the original application.

Yes, I hear you on some bad experiences psoted on this forum, and quite honestly I have learned to believe none of what I hear and half of what I see. I've been doing this for over 8 years and have had no bad experiences with anyone, even though I have had to issue 2 denials. Yes, HAD to. I hate doing them. I'm here to help builders go fly. In both cases we all agreed. :) One had an engine with unknown history and the last logbook entry for the engine was almost 29 years ago. It was installed in a high performance glass aircraft and was going to be flying off of 3000' strip. We agreed that perhaps it should at least be borescoped. In the second case, as I started the inspection it was clear to me that the airplane had been flying, as some parts looked almost worn out to me. The owner admitted they had been flying it for a couple of years with an N-number they took off of another airplane at the airport.

Again, we are here to help. :)

Vic
 
Only because you asked... :)

Here's how it works, at least for me. I am authorized by the Atlanta MIDO to perform your inspection AFTER you send them the signed 8130-6, along with a note that I have agreed to do the inspection. You and I will know LONG before this point if there are any issues that might cause you to seek out another DAR. Why? Because we have been working together already and I have been coaching you on all of the paperwork and steps needed to insure an enjoyable experience.

But once you submit the 8130-6 to the FAA and it gets assigned to a DAR, then you work with that DAR through Issuance or Denial. If denied, you are always able to seek out another DAR, but as someone mentioned, that DAR will know of the original application.

Yes, I hear you on some bad experiences psoted on this forum, and quite honestly I have learned to believe none of what I hear and half of what I see. I've been doing this for over 8 years and have had no bad experiences with anyone, even though I have had to issue 2 denials. Yes, HAD to. I hate doing them. I'm here to help builders go fly. In both cases we all agreed. :) One had an engine with unknown history and the last logbook entry for the engine was almost 29 years ago. It was installed in a high performance glass aircraft and was going to be flying off of 3000' strip. We agreed that perhaps it should at least be borescoped. In the second case, as I started the inspection it was clear to me that the airplane had been flying, as some parts looked almost worn out to me. The owner admitted they had been flying it for a couple of years with an N-number they took off of another airplane at the airport.

Again, we are here to help. :)

Vic

In total agreement with you, and to add to that, my DAR was absolutely terrific. Same sort of experience...lots of emails, phone calls, etc., and he was a big help in getting all the paperwork ready to go, LONG before the form was submitted and the formal process started. He also did an absolutely outstanding inspection, tip to tip, nose to tail and everything in between. It was a great experience, and we still stay in touch on occasion (and I refer new builders to him if they're looking for one).

So I didn't mean to implicate anyone here or the process itself, just to clarify when the "cut-off" point is technically/legally for opting out or choosing someone else.

BTW, I, too, would like to know what happened to the one that was already flying...I heard a similar story...
 
I've been doing DAR inspections since 1999. I've done approximately 700 certifications and have denied 2.
One was an RV-8 with a fuel line problem that the builder refused to correct. After the denial, he reconsidered, came back to me and we got the airworthiness issued. The other was a pressurized twin jet. The builder had redesigned the cabin door and I was not at all comfortable with the new design. He found another DAR to sign it off. The door later failed in flight.

If a DAR denies the issuance of an airworthiness certificate, there's a good reason. We are not here to hassle you. We are here to make sure you have a safe aircraft.
 
When the time comes for my inspection, I want someone who will give the plane a very careful inspection and is familiar with RVs (Vic or Mel, I will be calling you). If I screw up in my -8, I want it to be because of pilot error, not build quality. The last thing I want is a pencil whipped inspection!
 
When the time comes for my inspection, I want someone who will give the plane a very careful inspection and is familiar with RVs (Vic or Mel, I will be calling you). If I screw up in my -8, I want it to be because of pilot error, not build quality. The last thing I want is a pencil whipped inspection!

I know this is stating the obvious, but I highly recommend one last tech counselor visit and as many eyes as possible taking a critical look at your project prior to a DAR or FSDO guy coming out. The last thing you want is for the inspector to find all the discrepancies -- and there will be some despite your best efforts. That's OK, you just don't want something major to be found by the DAR, hence getting as much help beforehand as possible.
 
Yes.

Yes, have everyone look at it. I do the same with mine. It's funny how many things we still find, though, and it doesn't mean a denial. I've seen things like red nav lights on the right wing tip on an airplane built by a team of experienced builders. And even loose jamnuts with toruqe seal on them.They just get missed. No harm.
My focus is to give the airplane a really THOROUGH preflight so we all know it is safe. It's like an egg hunt. :)
I would have a really hard time sleeping if anyone ever got hurt in an airplane I licensed. I work with all of the builders to get the "findings" rectified in the most timely manner.

As for the one that was flying, for all I know it is still flying, but not with my name on it. :)

Vic
 
I know this is stating the obvious, but I highly recommend one last tech counselor visit and as many eyes as possible taking a critical look at your project prior to a DAR or FSDO guy coming out. The last thing you want is for the inspector to find all the discrepancies -- and there will be some despite your best efforts. That's OK, you just don't want something major to be found by the DAR, hence getting as much help beforehand as possible.

Oh yeah...that's the plan!
 
Findings during Airworthiness inspections

Several inspections I've done started with the applicant stating "you won't find anything because x number of A&Ps and AI's have just looked it over."

One of these had about five fuel/oil lines finger tight on the engine. Another had no nuts on the elevator bolts.

I look at inspections and certs as if I am the last one to preflight before the plane is put thru an extensive test flight... which is probably exactly what it is!
 
Interesting Post

Several inspections I've done started with the applicant stating "you won't find anything because x number of A&Ps and AI's have just looked it over."
One of these had about five fuel/oil lines finger tight on the engine. Another had no nuts on the elevator bolts.
I look at inspections and certs as if I am the last one to preflight before the plane is put thru an extensive test flight... which is probably exactly what it is!

I find that, in general, the more confident the applicant is that I won't find anything, the more things I find.
 
DAR Inspection Questions

For DAR Inspection, should I have my RV-7A in "inspection" configuration with lots of access plates removed, no seats, open floor in certain areas, etc? Or should I have it in flying configuration with all covers in place and ready to fly?

Is this something I should ask a DAR in advance.
 
The earlier you get the DAR in the loop the better. For my last inspection I started the process at least 3 months prior to the actual inspection and everything was in order come inspection day. Once we were both happy, the actual inspection was a non-event. As a general rule, they love placards, the more the merrier. Come to an agreement on how "opened up" he wants the plane, have all your paperwork in order and you should be just fine. For what it is worth, my last 2 inspections the DAR did NOT even look at my builders log or any photographs of the construction process. They can pretty much tell right off the bat if you built the machine. Have some RV savvy buddies look it over before hand for another set of eyes, they can usually criticize something.
Good Luck
 
For DAR Inspection, should I have my RV-7A in "inspection" configuration with lots of access plates removed, no seats, open floor in certain areas, etc? Or should I have it in flying configuration with all covers in place and ready to fly?

Is this something I should ask a DAR in advance.

Yes, this is something you should discuss with your inspector. Most DARs will want inspection panels off, but not all.
 
If you have time check with local FSDO as some have inspector available, I checked 3 surrounding as I was in middle of 3 jurisdictions , it?s FREE if you can
Pull off ! !
 
Keep in mind that the FAA may not be as generous as a DAR can be in defining your phase one test area. I'd work that out in advance to avoid being given a nice 25-30 mile radius in which to spend your 40 hours. I've seen this happen.
 
Keep in mind that the FAA may not be as generous as a DAR can be in defining your phase one test area. I'd work that out in advance to avoid being given a nice 25-30 mile radius in which to spend your 40 hours. I've seen this happen.

Yes, talk to them first. I asked for 100 miles radius and got it easily.

I sent them a pretty map and they simply incorporated it in my Op Limitations. :)

Look for airports at different altitudes for testing and tell them the RV's fast cruise speed.
 
FAA was great for me

I used the local FSDO. My taxes paid for it, and it went super smooth. They have done several at our home field. After we looked the plane over and went through the required documents we simply took one of my old sectionals picked 5 airports within the region and "connected the dots". RV's as we know are fast, and its nice to have several airports in the phase 1 area to practice on. No disrespect to DAR's, as I may even apply to be one myself, but the FSDO was so accommodating the choice was easy.
 
I've built two aircraft and used a DAR for one and the FSDO for the other.

Both went smoothly and the inspectors were great. The FSDO was free and they came out right away. The FSDO had no problem with my large flight area request as it was over rural Illinois and ended south of the ORD class B.
 
I've built two aircraft and used a DAR for one and the FSDO for the other.

Both went smoothly and the inspectors were great. The FSDO was free and they came out right away. The FSDO had no problem with my large flight area request as it was over rural Illinois and ended south of the ORD class B.

I used a DAR; my hangar neighbor used a FSDO inspector. Both inspections were identical, except I paid $750 and his was free. Identical, because we both got the same inspector! When my -10 was finished, I called the OAK FSDO. They said they were too busy, I had to hire a DAR. I did. After the inspection, he told me he was applying for a job with the faa. A year later my neighbor?s -10 was finished. He called the OAK FSDO and said he couldn?t find a DAR because the FAA had hired him. So the FSDO sent him out, free!
 
The problem in dealing directly with the FAA is that there is no consistency between FSDO's and even inspectors at the same FSDO. I agree that our tax dollars should cover the cost of an inspection, but in many cases such as mine, it was easier to just bite the bullet and pay a DAR. For those of you who had a good experience with the FAA - I'm jealous.
 
In the case where I was a witness to the FAA inspection, it was purely about paperwork and placards. Period. There was no real inspection. I am glad I had Vic come do mine despite the expense, because he found issues and we corrected them either right then or soon after. I'd have Vic, Mel or any of the RV-savvy DARs do mine again despite the expense.
 
In the case where I was a witness to the FAA inspection, it was purely about paperwork and placards. Period. There was no real inspection. I am glad I had Vic come do mine despite the expense, because he found issues and we corrected them either right then or soon after. I'd have Vic, Mel or any of the RV-savvy DARs do mine again despite the expense.

Same here. I paid Mel to do my inspection, because I wanted a real inspection.
 
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