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View Full Version : What size Cogsdill Burraway?


fehdxl
03-22-2005, 08:26 PM
I'm moving into the 'slowly collecting tools' phase as I progress from lurker status to builder status.

My questions for the group are: (1) what size holes are most common throughout the whole project? (2) Does it make a difference what type of RV I am building? (3) If I were only to buy on burraway tool, what size should it be? If I were to buy two? How about three? Or should I just go for the five piece kit which includes 1/8, 5/32, 3/16, 7/32, & 1/4?

Thank you for your time!

-Jim
RV-10 want-to-be

http://www.cogsdill.com/deburring.html


Keywords: burr debur deburr deburing deburring de-burr de-bur Cogsdill Cogsdil bur-a-way burr-a-way buraway dual-action dual action double cut

ptrotter
03-22-2005, 11:29 PM
Jim,

Most of the holes in the kits are either 3/32 or 1/8 so I would get those 2 Burraway tools. I have the 5 piece kit plus the 3/32 tool but rarely use anything but 3/32 and 1/8. For the few larger holes in the kit, you can deburr with a countersink bit. I found that the best prices are directly form Cogsdill. Also if you order direct, you can ask them to put in neutral rake blades, which are best for aluminum.

I love these tools, they speed up deburring greatly, especially on things like ribs.

Good luck.

Build9A
03-23-2005, 08:00 AM
Wish I would have known about these tools before I finished my airplane. They appear to be real time savers. Also, the micro countersink shown at the Burraway website would fit in many places that my Avery purchased countersink wouldn't. However, they look expensive. But I spent so much on tools anyway that I stopped keeping costs records just in case my wife discovered them.;)

fehdxl
03-23-2005, 01:31 PM
Thank you for the information Paul and Jack.

However, I have a few more questions. I was reading some information here: http://www.cogsdill.com/pdf%20files/usdeb_micro.pdf about the micro-limit countersink it says that measurement 'C' on the countersink, which is the minimum cut diameter, is 0.125" or 1/8". I may be stating the obvious, but does that mean it won't work on all those 3/32 holes? Also, the smallest pilot they sell is 1/8", which helps support its inability to countersink 3/32 holes. Does anyone have personal experience with the Cogsdill countersink that can confirm this?

In reality with these kits though, do you ever have to countersink 3/32 holes? Or do they get dimpled? I understand the dimple vs countersink decision is due to material thickness (0.040), not hole size, but I'm curious about the real-world tasks.

Thank you for your time.

-Jim

P.S. for the archives, here are the prices from Cogsdill as of 23 Mar 05. Phone 803-438-4000, ask for sales.

Countersink
ML-300 - drive $37.75
****ersink - $17.70
pilot - $3.95 each
Total - $59.40

Deburing
3/32 burraway - $46.50
extra 3/32 blade - $8.60
1/8 burraway - $37.80
extra 1/8 blade - $7.60

alpinelakespilot2000
03-23-2005, 03:11 PM
You will have to countersink a whole bunch of 3/32 holes on the horizontal stabilizer spars (too thick to dimple), but not sure where else.

Steve

ptrotter
03-23-2005, 09:33 PM
Jim,

The size of the hole you are countersinking has to match the diameter of the pilot of the countersink bit. There doesn't seem to be a 3/32" pilot available for the Cogsdill microstop countersink (or maybe I just didn't see it). That being said, you can find a lot of high quality microstop countersink cages on Ebay for a lot less. I have about 10 of them that I probably paid less than $10 apiece. Piloted countersink bits are cheap so I keep cages set up for the most common depths so I don't have ot change them.

You will do quite a bit of countersinking for 3/32" rivets. Particularly on the main spar for the wing skins.

fehdxl
03-23-2005, 10:00 PM
Thanks Steve and Paul.

So I guess what I'm hearing is that Cogsdill's burraway deburring tools are probably worth the $$, but their micro-limit countersink is nothing special.

That helps a lot -- thanks!

-Jim

zsadecki
03-27-2005, 11:22 AM
About the dimple vs. countersink questions... I'm just finishing up my 7 empennage. As a rule of thumb, I dimpled everything I could and only countersunk what had to have a flat side on the back (trim tab hinge attach points), and a couple places where 3 or more pieces of material overlaped (not all though). And on the very thick spar stiffeners/doublers. Just guessing, I'd say I countersunk maybe 60 holes total on the whole empennage.

Dimpling is MUCH easier than countersinking and takes MUCH less time. And is MUCH more forgiving to the unskilled/careless, as it's easy to oval out holes with the countersink if you're not careful and using the proper method (additional piece of guide material backing your work material). And with that in mind, I LOVE my DRDT-2 (http://experimentalaero.com/DRDT-2.htm). I use it to dimple everything, not just skins. And this Cogsdill stuff is super cool. This will definitely be another time/frustration saver (deburring back side of holes!) to add to my arsenal.

John Courte
07-27-2005, 02:39 PM
I love my Burraways. Picked a bunch of them up off ebay
for less than a hundred bucks. The only one missing from the set was the .093 one, for 3/32 holes. I got one from MSC and the problem is, it's for 3/32 holes, not #40 holes, which are a little bigger. The blade barely makes it to the outside of the metal and doesn't do such a hot job of deburring them. Are there any alternatives? I need a Burraway or Burr-off that has a little less than a .980 pilot and a larger than .980 blade reach..

RV-7
Empennage (deburring/dimpling HS)

RV7Factory
07-28-2005, 12:59 AM
John,

I'm not sure I understand your problem correctly, you say there isn't enough blade on the 3/32" Burraway to deburr the hole? Strange, cuz mine has plenty of blade and fits snugly in the hole. For referrence, here is what mine looked like the day I got it from Cogsdill. Plenty of blade to deburr the hole.

http://www.rv7factory.com/images/log/050624_002.JPG

John Courte
08-07-2005, 10:25 AM
What's happening is that the edge of the blade of the .093 burraway, which is what i'm using to deburr #40 holes, barely touches metal when the pilot goes through. #40 is just enough wider than 3/32 to make this happen. In your photo, it looks like your blade sticks out a bit more than mine, but I can't remember, since my blade is now broken and I have to find a watch repair shop to replace the blade and reinsert that little retaining pin. I'll do some more R&D, because I love the Burraways, they're huge time savers on anything besides #40, so it sure would be nice to have my .093 working as well. Meantime, I found this:

http://www.ezburr.com/products-burrfree-drill.cfm

And if it works, and isn't terribly expensive, it could be pretty cool.

captainron
06-17-2006, 06:46 AM
Re: De-burring tools, please note that the Burraway in the 3/32 size is for just that, 3/32. Also, please note that these tools are undersized by about .003-.004 which makes this tool measure about .0895 inch.
What you really want is called an E-Z Burr in 2.5mm size. This tool, also undersized by about .003 inches measures .0935-.094 inches, perfect for the #40 hole. The actual part number on this tool is EZL0098-02. the -02 suffix is important in that identifies the rake or cutting angle optimized for thin aluminum.
You can call the E-Z Burr Company at (734) 459-5310 and they'll give you the phone number for one of their distributors. The one I purchased from is:

Southern Tool and Machine Co.
1480 SW 3rd. St. Bay C-2
Pompano Beach FL 33069

Sorry,I misplaced their phone #, but if i can find it I will re-post.
Hope this helps!

www.ezburr.com

N674P
06-17-2006, 11:15 AM
Yep, 2.5 mm works great. Here is what I got back when I emailed Cogsdill with my questions:

Hello Johnny - I would recommend a 2.5mm type "MA" Burraway with 0 degree rake. Go with the standard spring - you should be able to get tension light enough by adjusting, (my question was about deburring thin .016" skins) and the light spring may not have enough pressure for you. Complete tool price is $xx.xx each and can usually ship within 3 days. Replacing the blades in this small size is more difficult because the blade must have a pin hole rather than slot. A tiny pin has to be pressed out and tools can break. We recommend replacing the arbor assembly which already has a blade assembled - for $xx.xx. If you still want just the blade - it is $x.xx each. We take credit card - Mastercard or Visa or can set up open account. For factory direct order - Call us at 803-438-4000 and ask for inside sales.
Thanks for your inquiry,
Chuck Kannisto
Cogsdill Cust Serv Mgr

I took out the prices since they might be different. Ask about shipping - I didn't ask or specify, and it was 8 or 10 bucks for a few ounces of product!

This has worked out great for me. Although I'm not careless with it, I don't handle it with kid gloves or like its delicate, and I've never felt I was close to breaking the blade.

rv9aviator
06-18-2006, 07:33 AM
I just broke the blade on my tool. Be very careful going into a hole that is not round. I must have drilled one hole off as the hole was egg shaped and it snapped the bit as soon as I started to deburr it. I am a tool maker by trade and was very careful how I handled the tool. It works great with that limitation in mind. After deburring one wing with a countersink in an air drill turning slow and one with the Burr-Away tool I'm not sure it's all that much faster and it is pretty expensive.

osxuser
06-18-2006, 10:19 AM
thread hijack:

I dimpled my HS spars with a hand squeezer, no problem...

sonny junell
09-25-2008, 03:05 PM
I am sold I am buying one of these, good bye that twist bit

RV7Factory
09-25-2008, 05:16 PM
I gave up on mine after the blade jammed and ruined a skin that my buddy was deburring.

lorne green
09-25-2008, 11:29 PM
Yup, I had both popular sizes for the #30 and #40 drill bits. The .093 broke first. I deburred most of my emp before the other broke. A monumental waste of money.
I paid retail for mine. BIG dollars! $30-$40 bucks each. Very quick double sided deburring. Not really worth the money. I think if one got a SCREAMING deal on
the popular sizes from Ebay or where ever, one could justify the purchase. Otherwise. keep your cash and put it toward a DRDT-2 Dimpler or sumthin':D

Pirkka
09-26-2008, 02:48 AM
At time I started to get tools this was something I wanted to have and asked whether Avery would carry them. Comment was that they did but they had to replace them so often so it was not very viable business so they didn't carry them anymore.

Now after many deburred holes I still think I should have one for some holes. Most holes can be beburred normal way but this might be good for cramped places or I can imagine that if you have to drill hole to the structure you are not going to open them this would allow at least some sort of deburring. If using these only for most troublesome holes they would probably last through project, but price per hole would be significant...

DaX
09-26-2008, 05:57 AM
Prikka - I have one that I got for free, #40. I only use it to debur tips of ribs, or other places that are difficult to reach.