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scsmith
12-04-2012, 03:35 PM
I'm thinking about buying an IFly 720, so I have electronic charts in the cockpit that I can read in the bright sun.

I tried an iPad, and it is just not satisfactory to me. I know others find it adequate.

But now, I'm thinking......it would be cool to have the IFly 720 display ADS-B info (traffic and weather)
But I am completely uneducated on ADS-B. I understand I need to buy a receiver, and mount an antenna. Then, apparently, people can feed that to an iPad. What about feeding it to the IFly 720?

Should I wait for a new device (IFly 740?) that will do both the geo-referenced charts and display ADS-B? or can the IFly 720 already accept the data somehow?

rv9aviator
12-04-2012, 03:47 PM
I have an Ifly 720 and I understand it will display ADSB. I don't have it yet but plan to in the near future. The 720 is awesome. Call Shane at Ifly and I bet he will give you all the info you need.

thinkn9a
12-04-2012, 04:42 PM
give them a call and understand which machines and how they interface.

I have an early version receiver, and after early success with the 700,... have not been able to get it to sort out with 720,.... but know it will...

It is nice to see traffic and weather...

DickF
12-04-2012, 06:02 PM
I have a NavWorx ADS600-B connected to an iFly 720 and it works great! The ADS600-B is a transceiver so I have traffic (and weather) whenever I am in range of an ADSB tower.

scsmith
12-04-2012, 06:58 PM
As always, the knowledge of the 'collective' comes through.

But wow, the NavWorx ADS600-B is $2600! :eek: OUCH!

Maybe I ought to just put my power-flarm in my RV-8! (no weather though). But $2600 would get a lifetime subscription to XM weather-premium:rolleyes:

jclark
12-04-2012, 07:14 PM
As always, the knowledge of the 'collective' comes through.

But wow, the NavWorx ADS600-B is $2600! :eek: OUCH!

Maybe I ought to just put my power-flarm in my RV-8! (no weather though). But $2600 would get a lifetime subscription to XM weather-premium:rolleyes:

Contact me at jclarkmail AT gmail DOT com .

James

RONSIM
12-05-2012, 11:44 AM
with either of the iFlys --- Adventure Pilot works very hard to make sure their unit plays well with all the ADS-B receivers --- Navworx, Skyradar, Clarity, etc. ----- (but not Stratus ---- exclusive to only Forelight on the iPad)

ron sterba
12-05-2012, 11:15 PM
If you go to adventurepilot.com website they talk about the ADSB format and the availability of after market ADSB receivers. Love my 720!
Ron in Oregon

MartySantic
12-06-2012, 09:09 AM
To my knowledge, the only vendor that has a solution incorporating ADS-B IN, and ADS-B OUT is the NavWorx ADS600 which is a suticase sized portable.

ADS-B OUT is required to satisfy the FAA mandate.

ADS-B OUT triggers the ground station to send the ground based aircraft specific TIS-B traffic info (air to air and air to ground). Other than the NavWorx, none of the other portable solutions seem to incorporate ADS-B Out.

Anyone know if there are other vendors incorporating ADS-B out in a portable device, hopefully compatible with the iPad? Or contemplating the development?

Walt
12-06-2012, 09:37 AM
To my knowledge, the only vendor that has a solution incorporating ADS-B IN, and ADS-B OUT is the NavWorx ADS600 which is a suticase sized portable.

ADS-B OUT is required to satisfy the FAA mandate.

ADS-B OUT triggers the ground station to send the ground based aircraft specific TIS-B traffic info (air to air and air to ground). Other than the NavWorx, none of the other portable solutions seem to incorporate ADS-B Out.

Anyone know if there are other vendors incorporating ADS-B out in a portable device, hopefully compatible with the iPad? Or contemplating the development?

FreeFlight Systems (http://www.freeflightsystems.com/products/ads-b/overview-adsb)

edit: sorry this is not a portable unit

Mark33
12-06-2012, 10:01 AM
Well, I'm hoping not to drift to far on this thread, but I'm wondering how they (the FAA and ATC) are going to police whether the ADS-B "out" signal that we will be sending out to them will be from a "certified" GPS source (such as a a 430/530, 650/750) or from an "non-certified" source, such as could be derived from a WAAS G3X? I'm loaded for bear with my Garmin GTX 23 ES transponder, WAAS G3X, and GDL 39, but I'm not going to spend 10-15k on a "certified" GPS that I don't need as a VFR pilot, just to send a little "position" signal to ATC. I really hope the rules change a little or that someone comes out with a VERY inexpensive little GPS that could easily be intergraded into my setup such as mine so that I can be "legal".

skyhawk73
12-06-2012, 10:08 AM
Steve,

This is Shane with Adventure Pilot. Yes, the iFly 720 can connect to several ADS-B devices. You can visit our site and/or contact me and I'd be happy to provide you with all the information you need. Here is a basic rundown.

Currently the iFly 700 and 720 support a host of ADS-B receivers from third party manufacturers. While the iFly 700 uses the USB connection, the iFly 720 supports Wi-Fi and this increases the expandability options.

iFly 720 Supported ADS-B Receivers (Wi-Fi and USB):
-SkyRadar (Original, L Models, S Models and D Models) via Wi-Fi.
-NavWorx (ADS-600, ADS-600B) via USB to Serial connection.
-Stratus (Beta via Wi-Fi)
-Clarity (All Models currently in development for Clarity's Mar 2013 release)
-FreeFlight (Ranger and Xplorer in development)
-iLevel (In development for product release)

iFly 700 Supported ADS-B Receivers (USB):
-SkyRadar (Original, L Models, S Models and D Models) via USB connection
-NavWorx (ADS-600, ADS-600B) via USB to Serial connection
-FreeFlight (Ranger and Xplorer in development) via USB connection

You mentioned an Antenna. With the iFly GPS, it is not necessary to use the antenna with an ADSB-Receiver. I use the SkyRadar, connected via Wi-Fi to my 720, whis is panel mounted in my 172 (I know, I'm itching for a RV-8 w/ tall option). Mine is panel mounted in a AirGizmo and I still run on the internal GPS antenna.

I actually attached one of our batteries to the SkyRadar and I can just charge it up and take it from plane to plane. It gets about 6-8 hours of In-Air Weather. Very cool.

As for waiting for a "iFly 740", I don't know where "740" came from, as we don't have any plans to move from the 720 anytime soon. We are always looking at the market, but it is not our desire to constantly put out units each year or so like the tablet or mobile market. That is the beauty of the iFly and it's software, we update it so you get the new features without being forced to upgrade the unit, (hardware features excluded like sunlight readable screen or Wi-Fi).

I hope this helps, an I'd love to answer any questions. I just don't want overstep the boundaries. Just providing information to fellow pilots, and hopefully a RV owner/builder soon.

Thanks,

Shane Woodson
Adventure Pilot

RV8iator
12-06-2012, 10:09 AM
Well, I'm hoping not to drift to far on this thread, but I'm wondering how they (the FAA and ATC) are going to police whether the ADS-B "out" signal that we will be sending out to them will be from a "certified" GPS source (such as a a 430/530, 650/750) or from an "non-certified" source, such as could be derived from a WAAS G3X? I'm loaded for bear with my Garmin GTX 23 ES transponder, WAAS G3X, and GDL 39, but I'm not going to spend 10-15k on a "certified" GPS that I don't need as a VFR pilot, just to send a little "position" signal to ATC. I really hope the rules change a little or that someone comes out with a VERY inexpensive little GPS that could easily be intergraded into my setup such as mine so that I can be "legal".

Me believes that you have now identified the crux of the problem.. Now, to meet the 2020 mandate it costs big bucks if you're starting from scratch. :(

SteinAir
12-06-2012, 08:52 PM
Well, I'm hoping not to drift to far on this thread, but I'm wondering how they (the FAA and ATC) are going to police whether the ADS-B "out" signal that we will be sending out to them will be from a "certified" GPS source (such as a a 430/530, 650/750) or from an "non-certified" source, such as could be derived from a WAAS G3X? I'm loaded for bear with my Garmin GTX 23 ES transponder, WAAS G3X, and GDL 39, but I'm not going to spend 10-15k on a "certified" GPS that I don't need as a VFR pilot, just to send a little "position" signal to ATC. I really hope the rules change a little or that someone comes out with a VERY inexpensive little GPS that could easily be intergraded into my setup such as mine so that I can be "legal".

They don't have to because the technology will do it for them....

I also don't know why people keep coming up with that "10-15k" number for a certified GPS. I can get you a brand spankin new certified unit for less than $4k....

Cheers,
Stein

Mark33
12-07-2012, 09:45 AM
They don't have to because the technology will do it for them....

I also don't know why people keep coming up with that "10-15k" number for a certified GPS. I can get you a brand spankin new certified unit for less than $4k....

Cheers,
Stein

Stein,
Interesting....so I guess there's part of the signal that's different if it's being transmitted from a certified unit VS a non certified unit? Regarding the 10-15k price range for a certified GPS, I was referring to the 430/530-650/750. But with that in mind, what certified unit can you supply for under 4k? What's your thoughts on the FreeFlight system and Specifically the FreeFlight 1201?? Would this integrate well with my G3X and GTX 23 ES? I really don't have room in my panel for another GPS but it looks like the 1201 would be remotely mounted. Would this system play well with my G3X and GTX 23 ES?

Thanks

SteinAir
12-07-2012, 02:07 PM
Stein,
Interesting....so I guess there's part of the signal that's different if it's being transmitted from a certified unit VS a non certified unit? Regarding the 10-15k price range for a certified GPS, I was referring to the 430/530-650/750. But with that in mind, what certified unit can you supply for under 4k? What's your thoughts on the FreeFlight system and Specifically the FreeFlight 1201?? Would this integrate well with my G3X and GTX 23 ES? I really don't have room in my panel for another GPS but it looks like the 1201 would be remotely mounted. Would this system play well with my G3X and GTX 23 ES?

Thanks

Just simply purchase a Garmin 400W - It can be had for less than $4K. The Freeflight is not a good fit with most of the current experimental EFIS systems, plus it's only en-route/non precision...though it would likely cover the requirements for ADSB if there were a way to interface it. Mind you Freeflight is an excellent company with excellent products, but given the fact that receiver is around $3K, it just doesn't make sense.

Cheers,
Stein

Ron Lee
12-07-2012, 02:37 PM
Just simply purchase a Garmin 400W - It can be had for less than $4K.

No doubt a well intentioned suggestion but the notion that we have to pay $4000 (and more for the ADS-B Out transmitter) is nonsense. I am still of the opinion that this needs to be dropped for GA aircraft below TBD feet. I would want that altitude to be low 20k feet to accommodate some GA IFR traffic.

Mark33
12-07-2012, 02:59 PM
Just simply purchase a Garmin 400W - It can be had for less than $4K. The Freeflight is not a good fit with most of the current experimental EFIS systems, plus it's only en-route/non precision...though it would likely cover the requirements for ADSB if there were a way to interface it. Mind you Freeflight is an excellent company with excellent products, but given the fact that receiver is around $3K, it just doesn't make sense.

Cheers,
Stein

Well, I may have to wait and keep my fingers crossed that garmin (or someone that plays well with garmin) comes out with a remote mount unit that's reasonably priced. Besides not wanting to spend a fortune on something that doesn't really benefit me at all (it's only to tell the FAA where I'm at), I just don't have room in my panel for another full blown GPS...that's what made the FreeFlight setup look attractive.... even though it is pricy as well.

Walt
12-07-2012, 03:22 PM
I think most folks will be able to afford a UAT or replace their old xpdr with a mode S when the time comes, the bigger question is really the GPS source requirement. Currently the cheapest GPS that meets the spec that I am aware of is the FF 1201, but at 3K that is definately not cheap.

I am also not sure of the 1201 compatability with the Garmin stuff, however, the 1201 and the Trig units work together and have already been STC'd as a certified ADS-B out system.

Hopefully at some point "they" will rethink the GPS out requirement and allow an "approved" VFR GPS to fullfill the requirement.

SteinAir
12-07-2012, 03:59 PM
I can certainly concurr with everyone about the pricing being just too expensive at this point. That said, you don't have to go buy something RIGHT NOW. You functionally can use your G3X or portable GPS or whatever for the time being, then just wait awhile and see what comes down the road. I've been selling ADSB boxes like crazy, but I've repeatedly been telling people to just hold off on the whole certified GPS thing right now (unless you're going to put in a 430W or GTN anyway)....because you don't have to do it tomorrow, or next year, or even in 5 years. It's certain that a LOT will change between now and then.

With that in mind, I still can't see someone spending $3K for a remote mount GPS box that is doing absolutely nothing for you navigation wise, only to support a mandate that is 7 years away. If you're going to spend that $3K on a remote mount GPS box, and you also have an SL30, then you're about 75% of the way to a GTN650 and nearly 90% of the cost of a 430W. Both of which are quite a lot more useful as a whole.

I realize in some instances space is a concern, but not enough of a concern to me that I'd blow $3K on a box just for ADSB!

That's just my 2 cents as usual!

Cheers,
Stein

Mark33
12-07-2012, 04:29 PM
I can certainly concurr with everyone about the pricing being just too expensive at this point. That said, you don't have to go buy something RIGHT NOW. You functionally can use your G3X or portable GPS or whatever for the time being, then just wait awhile and see what comes down the road. I've been selling ADSB boxes like crazy, but I've repeatedly been telling people to just hold off on the whole certified GPS thing right now (unless you're going to put in a 430W or GTN anyway)....because you don't have to do it tomorrow, or next year, or even in 5 years. It's certain that a LOT will change between now and then.

With that in mind, I still can't see someone spending $3K for a remote mount GPS box that is doing absolutely nothing for you navigation wise, only to support a mandate that is 7 years away. If you're going to spend that $3K on a remote mount GPS box, and you also have an SL30, then you're about 75% of the way to a GTN650 and nearly 90% of the cost of a 430W. Both of which are quite a lot more useful as a whole.

I realize in some instances space is a concern, but not enough of a concern to me that I'd blow $3K on a box just for ADSB!

That's just my 2 cents as usual!

Cheers,
Stein

I agree....I think I'll just wait a while. I currently have my GTX 23 ES tied in to my G3X and hopefully I'll get the full benefits that ADS-B (out) offers in relation to ADS-B (in) even though I'm not sending out a "certified" position source signal, and then I can upgrade to a certified GPS position source at some point in the future when I'm mandated to do so.