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Bill_H
11-23-2012, 09:27 AM
I am looking forward to buying and installing the Dynon ADSB weather receiver when it comes out – hopefully in December 2012. So I am planning the installation in an EXISTING E-LSA Skyview panel. Here are my thoughts, I hope for some more ideas! A retrofit may have a different, easier solution than an original installation might be.

The ADSB box is a 7 inch by 4.6 inch by 1.2 inch thick rectangle. It has an antenna connection and a DB9 connection. No weight listed, probably about a pound. The mounting holes on the base are at 6.5 inches by 3 inches. Only 4 wires are used on the DB9 – power, ground, TX and RX to the Skyview network (CORRECTION - to a Skyview Serial Input). There is a plug for these on the AV-5000A junction box. There is no length restriction on these wires so the box can be mounted anywhere.

The antenna (not included) is a simple blade type like http://www.deltapopaviation.com/UAT_Antenna.html (or even a rod type) that is supposed to be 2 feet from other antennas, particularly the transponder antenna.

The main issue for mounting the box in the instrument bay is the difficulty of routing the thick antenna cable (with BNC connectors on each end!!!!) through the panel base and the brake pedal tray and down the tunnel etc. I really don’t like this idea! Van’s announced S-LSAs options lists includes the ADSB so there will be some sort of additional option to add it from Vans for kits-in-progress and even retrofits. I bet it will be in the instrument bay with the installation difficulties mentioned for completed planes.

Now, the box and antenna could be put behind the tail bulkhead. My bulkhead cover panel is already “split” (see the “modifications” sticky thread) so there is access without removing the fuel tank. But it isn’t “great” access for getting head and hands back there. But, mounting the box and antenna back there would seem good, and running 4 small wires up to the panel (where they plug into the AV-5000A box) seems a lot easier than routing an antenna cable.

But in looking around further, I am really wondering about under the passenger side seat in the outside bay where there is access to the headset jacks. (Passenger side because there is no autopilot servo around there.) And maybe even mounting the antenna somewhere around that area. The benefit is that the antenna cable routing is easy, and even the four small wires avoid going through the system blocks tunnel etc. Maybe mount the antenna in that empty space next to the elevator cable pulleys – a little backer plate with nutplates would be easily accessed there.

Now there is benefit to mounting the antenna to one of the bottom outboard inspection plates below the landing gear. And the antenna wire could possibly be run straight aft from that headset bay location somehow (avoiding the system block tunnel) to such a location.

Other thoughts or ideas? I will probably do the installation in April 2013 during my 1st condition inspection when everything is open anyway.

ADDED: Hmmmm - I wonder if the 4 wires from the box could be simply electrically spliced into the 4 similar wires to the ADAHRS back in the tailcone? Then mounting the box and antenna back in the tailcone would involve no wires anywhere else in the plane! I will inquire with Dynon. Note that doing it that way would not separately power the ADSB box via the GPS/ADSB fuse on the right side of the fuse panel - it would be extra load on whatever the power source to the ADAHRS is. A quarter-amp, I think.
CORRECTION - it is 200ma.
WHOOPS - bad idea. The ADSB uses one of the Skyview Serial inputs, not the Skyview Network like the ADAHRS. So it will need 4 wires to the AV-5000A Box.

cactusman
11-27-2012, 08:45 AM
FWIW - they Dynon guys were at Copperstate and I was talking to one of them about the new ADS box (they had brochures) and if it would available as upgrade to the RV-12 kit and the guy really didn't seem to know if it would or not.

I was planning on just using my ipad with one of the many apps and the new ads-b portable solutions that are out there now for around $800. The Dynon guy seemed to think we would be able to upgrade the systems, but he really wasn't sure. Would be nice to see some updates on this for the RV-12, pricing, etc as your efforts progress.

RFSchaller
11-27-2012, 10:15 AM
Since ADS-B out isn't mandatory until 2020 I plan on waiting to see if the "cheaper / better" trend continues. There should be many choices for In and Out as the deadline approaches.

Bill_H
11-27-2012, 01:58 PM
Vans announcement of their S-LSA fully built planes claimed that the ADSB weather would be optional. That means they have to do all the drawings etc. for that. Also the AV-5000A box has a plug for it. I would bet dollars to donuts that you will see it listed as an option with revised plans after it comes out.

I will be curious where they decide to locate the box and the antenna. And there are three wiring choke points that are really starting to be a problem! (Above brake pedal bars, rear of the forward portion of the tunnel forward of the wings, and below the system blocks). I would certainly enlarge a couple in particular of the tunnel snap bushings if I was currently building...

Scott M. or Mitch L., would you care to comment please regarding potential component location on the S-LSA?

RFS - your -12 will already be "ADSB-out." It is possible that the Dynon box could come down in price in the next few years though. The Ipad ADSB solution costs almost as much and I personally will prefer to see the weather while in flight on the Dynon and not have to also deal with my Ipad.

Dvalcik
11-27-2012, 02:42 PM
I donít have the Dynon, but have the NavWorx ADS-b and installed it on the passenger side of the rear bulkhead and the blade ANT by the second empennage rib just right of mid line, just enough to get the needed distance from the Comm. Ant. The ADS-B works great and I love flying with it. I know this is different since I went EAB, so we will have to wait to see where Vans recommends the equipment.
.
http://rv12pilot.com/vaf/ads-b blade ant.jpg
.
Hope this helps for those who are going forward with the install and placement of the ANT before VANs has the plans.

RFSchaller
11-27-2012, 08:27 PM
Bill H - I didn't mention that I have the D-180, not Skyview, so my selection process for ADS-B will be different from the SV guys. I'll probably go for some combo of WAAS GPS and mode S transponder that is independent of the DSAB for ADS-B Out I hope to be using a portable ADS-B In receiver and my IPad mini soon for the In portion.

BTW I just started using an IPad Mini, and it is ideal for the 12 cockpit. It makes the IPad 2 I was using look clunky!

Rich

Dave12
11-28-2012, 06:55 AM
I am pretty sure that the Ifly 720 will work with many of the adsb receivers. If you have not seen this unit, check it out on Adventure Pilot.com. It is very reasonably priced and packed full of features. It is so easy to use it does not even come with a manual.

Bill_H
12-04-2012, 10:29 AM
The DYNON ADSB receiver (weather and traffic) for Skyview is now shipping! $995. http://dynonavionics.com/docs/news_version_ADS-B_03Dec2012.html

The software update (version 5.0) that will make it work will follow in a few weeks, they say. But many want the box ASAP to install it in a currently in-progress plane (i.e. non-E-LSA RV-12 in progress). So the question is for E-LSA in-progress Builders, when will the Van's mods to mount this box be available?

DonFromTX
12-04-2012, 02:22 PM
Mine is on the way! For the ELSA people I would suppose Vans will follow with an installation kit?

BigJohn
12-05-2012, 05:49 AM
Bill H - I didn't mention that I have the D-180, not Skyview, so my selection process for ADS-B will be different from the SV guys. I'll probably go for some combo of WAAS GPS and mode S transponder that is independent of the DSAB for ADS-B Out I hope to be using a portable ADS-B In receiver and my IPad mini soon for the In portion.

BTW I just started using an IPad Mini, and it is ideal for the 12 cockpit. It makes the IPad 2 I was using look clunky!

Rich

Rich, sorry for the thread drift, but would you mind posting a picture of how you are mounting the mini iPad in the cockpit, if indeed you are doing so?

MLock
12-05-2012, 06:41 AM
Bill H,

I haven't seen any factory drawings on the placement of the ADS-B module or antenna. The only place I can see the module going is on the back side of the firewall to the right of the radio.

Obviously the antenna lead will have to penetrate the shelf somewhere with enough space in the hole to allow a connector to pass thru. All of mine are pretty well full as well. Perhaps there will be another hole to be installed. We'll all have to ait and see.

RFSchaller
12-05-2012, 11:19 AM
I haven't mounted the mini yet, but I am working on a mount for the stick that won't interfere with control stick motion or block my D180. When I get something finished I'll post it on another thread.

DHeal
12-05-2012, 12:38 PM
I think I would be concerned about the weight of a "stick-mounted" Mini or the like possibly inducing unwanted stick movement during turbulence / maneuvering?

dick seiders
12-05-2012, 02:25 PM
There is a lot I don't know about these Ahars units, but I suggest looking at Levil.com and check out their coming (this month) Ilevil unit. It does everything you need to get set for 2020, and gives you weather, GPS, syn vision, and more. It requires no wiring , can be mtd anywhere, in any position, and used with an app like Wingxpro7 talks in wi-fi speak to your Ipad, and /or Iphone. One caveat- there will be 10000 iterations until 2020 I am certain, but it looks interesting to me just for adsb weather at this point. Caution: adsb weather does not provide all the goodies we are used to from XM which is one of the reasons XM costs more I suppose. Just something else to think about.
Dick Seiders

RFSchaller
12-05-2012, 04:55 PM
I've used XM since buying a 396 when they first came out. It's great, but now that I'm flying within the LSA pilot parameters I think ADS-B is adequate. If the WX is that iffy it's probably better to just go back to the hotel, have a beer and try again tomorrow! :-)

Bill_H
12-16-2012, 08:03 AM
Dynon Skyview Software release 5.0 is out. http://www.dynonavionics.com/docs/RevLog_SkyView.html Supports the new ADSB weather/ traffic box, graphically shows TFRs, shows METAR text on the airport info page, can auto-sequence the transponder upon takeoff, plus a few other things.

Bill_H
12-17-2012, 01:10 PM
I had another idea about ADSB Box mounting. The objective is that it is reasonably easy to get to for troubleshooting, and in the tailcone makes this less than desirable. (Even with a split rear bulkhead so it is not necessary to remove the fuel tank - see the Modifications sticky thread.)

So - what about the box being attached to the underside of the panel cover (F-1230, page 33-03) that is in between the two wheelwells - the one where the red cube fuel flow sensor is. Up high and ensure no interference with the rudder cables. Haven't opened that yet, but seems easy to route the thin wires up to the AV-5000A box, and avoids a fat antenna cable going up there (remember, this is a retrofit to a flying Skyview RV-12.)

Have to have enough slack in the wiring to remove the panel and disconnect the wiring and antenna from the box, but have the slack in those wires not interfere with anything when the panel is in place.

The ADSB antenna has to be a couple of feet away from the transponder antenna so it cannot be mounted in that same cavity - but routing that cable aft to underneath the passenger seat might be a good, accessible spot for the antenna. (About in a mirror image placement to the AP pitch servo under the pilot seat) I'll be checking all of this in April when I have the plane open for the Annual and install it. Anyone doing it before then?

PilotBrent
12-17-2012, 08:23 PM
I might be mistaken, but it appears that the box is small enough that it could be mounted flat, on top of the glove box and still be clear of the top skin that covers all the avionics. The antenna cable can be fed down the side of the passenger area (likely behind the side walls or hidden in the channel that exists there) to feed under the seat ribs. From there it clearly can be fed as far back in the fuselage as you would want before attaching to the external antenna.

Does that make sense?

DonFromTX
12-17-2012, 09:19 PM
I am considering on the bulkhead just behind the tank, bolting it on a vertical surface near the antenna seems like a good idea. Of course this would only work if you have altered that bulkhead to avoid tank removal.

az_gila
12-17-2012, 10:31 PM
I had another idea about ADSB Box mounting. The objective is that it is reasonably easy to get to for troubleshooting, and in the tailcone makes this less than desirable. (Even with a split rear bulkhead so it is not necessary to remove the fuel tank - see the Modifications sticky thread.)

....


Is troubleshooting really an objective?

The box only has 4 wires - power/ground and serial in/out - and a single co-ax.

Serial connections are auto tested by Dynon and if there is no power or antenna nothing will come out.

Once it is wired in, what are you going to trouble shoot?

It really sounds like a fit it in and leave it until it breaks, which should be a long time...:)

DonFromTX
01-02-2013, 12:06 PM
I am still trying to decide where to mount the box and antenna, has anyone finalized their installation yet?

Keith Williams
01-04-2013, 02:55 PM
Planning to add the ADSB box to my completed and flying ELSA Skyview RV12. Wrote Van's to see if any guidance is available. Response - no instructions and no time estimate on a kit. I have written again with my specific question. Not optimistic about that, so I am trying here.

Per the Skyview install manual, the only connections the Dynon ADSB box needs are power, ground and 2 data lines (to and from a serial port on the Skyview D1000) plus the antenna.

The Van's AV50000A module has four ADSB data lines in the ADSB plug pin-out and two in the TXP plug pinout. I wonder what those are for. I have been thinking the Skyview transponder set up does the ADSB-out and the new box is just a receiver - getting the ADSB-in info and displaying it on Skyview. If that the case, why the ADSB connections on the Van's module?

My question is - can I just go direct to the SV1000 per the Dynon manual and ignore the Van's module?

Also, if someone is going ahead, where and how do you plan to pick up the power from the Van's modules? I'm tempted to do it independent of the Van's modules and switches. At least I will understand what I did.

rvbuilder2002
01-04-2013, 03:27 PM
Planning to add the ADSB box to my completed and flying ELSA Skyview RV12. Wrote Van's to see if any guidance is available. Response - no instructions and no time estimate on a kit. I have written again with my specific question. Not optimistic about that, so I am trying here.

Per the Skyview install manual, the only connections the Dynon ADSB box needs are power, ground and 2 data lines (to and from a serial port on the Skyview D1000) plus the antenna.

The Van's AV50000A module has four ADSB data lines in the ADSB plug pin-out and two in the TXP plug pinout. I wonder what those are for. I have been thinking the Skyview transponder set up does the ADSB-out and the new box is just a receiver - getting the ADSB-in info and displaying it on Skyview. If that the case, why the ADSB connections on the Van's module?

My question is - can I just go direct to the SV1000 per the Dynon manual and ignore the Van's module?

Also, if someone is going ahead, where and how do you plan to pick up the power from the Van's modules? I'm tempted to do it independent of the Van's modules and switches. At least I will understand what I did.

You could ignore the module if you want.
It is pre-designed for a simple harness that will connect between there and the ADSB box. The other wiring to make the connections at the screen are already in place (so you would have to remove them if you decide to make the connections directly).

If you can wait a bit longer, a complete ADSB kit is in the works. I thnk the hope is to have it available by the end of first quarter 2013

Bill_H
01-04-2013, 07:11 PM
You will likely find that the av5000 pins go into the big Skyview connector into the pins for serial port 5 (I think) of the Skyview, which is the default one for that function. This is based on the Dynon forum. I would certainly intend to use that av5000 connection because it is already nicely fused on the front panel! It would be easy enough to check the wire continuity and verify the pinouts. The big Skyview plug pinouts are in the Skyview manual.

The issue with waiting for the vans kit is that it may possibly be more optimized for installation during construction rather than retrofit. Hence all the discussion earlier in this thread about possible locations that do not involve running antenna coax up into the panel area. I won't be installing until April when my annual is due so I may be after the retrofit kit is available and have a fully informed decision then about using it or not.

hufise
01-05-2013, 02:10 AM
You will likely find that the av5000 pins go into the big Skyview connector into the pins for serial port 5 (I think) of the Skyview, which is the default one for that function.

Hi Bill

ADS-B Data A RX on skyview serial port 2 -
ADS-B Data B TX on skyview serial port 2
ADS-B Data C and D could by connected to the transponder gps data in and mutual supression

Daniel (Switzerland)

Bill_H
01-05-2013, 10:47 AM
More Dynon info here - http://dynonavionics.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1342657392
The 4 wires are: 1 is pin 1, 2 is pin 2... Only pins 1-4 are used. The cable to the ADSB box has a D9 male.
1: Power In
2: RX in to Box, TX on SkyView Wires
3: TX from box, RX on SkyView wires
4: Ground
The RX-TX is to any unused Skyview serial port. You probably have to tell the Skyview which one you are using unless it auto-detects(?) I imagine that the design of the AV5000 box and "future" wiring picked one of the unused ports based on other RV-12 components but I have not checked the new wiring drawings in detail. As said, easy to figure out when the panel top is removed. The serial wires do NOT have to be twisted and there is no length restriction.

DonFromTX
06-26-2013, 08:32 AM
This thread just kinda got stalled, has anyone ever figured out how to hook up the ADSB In box to the AV5000 box?

More Dynon info here - http://dynonavionics.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1342657392
The 4 wires are: 1 is pin 1, 2 is pin 2... Only pins 1-4 are used. The cable to the ADSB box has a D9 male.
1: Power In
2: RX in to Box, TX on SkyView Wires
3: TX from box, RX on SkyView wires
4: Ground
The RX-TX is to any unused Skyview serial port. You probably have to tell the Skyview which one you are using unless it auto-detects(?) I imagine that the design of the AV5000 box and "future" wiring picked one of the unused ports based on other RV-12 components but I have not checked the new wiring drawings in detail. As said, easy to figure out when the panel top is removed. The serial wires do NOT have to be twisted and there is no length restriction.

Keith Williams
06-26-2013, 09:30 AM
Don, I used the procedure described in the thread below.

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=96221&highlight=ads-b&page=2

Wiring could not have been easier - direct from the new box to the Van's 5000A box. I bought the ADS-B box and cable from Stein, with one end of cable left off for threading between the box in back, under the left longeron and to the 5000A. This was with a Skyview wiring harness, not a conversion, so that may be an issue for you. With mine, the wiring from the Van's 5000A harness to Skyview serial port 2 (from memory) was already in the bundle.

I have now flown with it enough to believe that it is a great system, at least around here. I am seeing local traffic from traffic pattern altitude, getting the other info on Skyview map pages as expected.

DonFromTX
06-26-2013, 09:48 AM
We with the "180 to Skyview" conversion harness still have one 9 pin receptacle open in the SV 5000 labeled ADSB. I cannot find anything that helps me do the pin location in that plug, probably just looking in the wrong places for it..

rvbuilder2002
06-26-2013, 10:19 AM
We with the "180 to Skyview" conversion harness still have one 9 pin receptacle open in the SV 5000 labeled ADSB. I cannot find anything that helps me do the pin location in that plug, probably just looking in the wrong places for it..

That plug is designed for use with the pre-made harness that comes in the ADSB kit that can be purchased from Van's.
If you choose to make your own harness, the pinout info is available in the Skyview electrical system file available for download from the Van's web site.

DonFromTX
06-26-2013, 10:57 AM
Thanks, that was a big help. I had just assumed in error that the wiring file was not yet updated to include this "new" box. With my box mounted way back on the baggage bulkhead, I had no choice but to make my own harness.

That plug is designed for use with the pre-made harness that comes in the ADSB kit that can be purchased from Van's.
If you choose to make your own harness, the pinout info is available in the Skyview electrical system file available for download from the Van's web site.

Slane
07-08-2013, 04:22 PM
I'm installing the ADSB now and finding it pretty straightforward, except for the direction to run the antenna cable (with it's connector) through 2 grommets on each in the F1202F and F1203A bulkheads. These two are already occupied and I cannot see a way to get this cable through those holes. I've considered cutting 2 more holes to achieve this as one option (I'm checking with Van's) and another option is to cut the connector off the cable and run it through the grommets and then installing a new connector on the "other side" when I get up to the antenna. Has anyone else dealt with this and if so how? (I know a lot of guys are being more creative with their install, but I'm not yet finished and need to follow the plans). Thanks for any feedback. Slane

Bill_H
07-08-2013, 04:52 PM
Slane - please clarify. Are you installing a Vans-supplied ADSB box with brackets etc? I did not hear those were out yet. They will come with complete instructions. What is the plans page you are following? I understand it will also involve a "second story" or extra hole or something on the blocks holding the the wires running below the pushrods. see here: http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showpost.php?p=742926&postcount=10

FredC
07-08-2013, 08:46 PM
Slane,

I cut off the connector on the aft end of the WH-00095 ADS-B Antenna Cable. That made it much, much easier to route and install the antenna cable over the rudder pedal tubes, though cable clamps, and existing snap bushings.

Then I ordered a CP-371 Pro-Crimper ($30), Part #300-038 Die ($12), plus an Amphenol 031-320-RFX connector ($1.80) from Steinair (phone 1-877-783-4624). These guys are always very helpful with wiring challenges.

When installing the new Amphenol connector, remove 11/16" of the brown outer insulation, cut off 7/16" of the braded shield leaving 1/4" braded shield, cut off 3/16" of the white insulation leaving 1/2" of white insulation and exposing 3/16" of the center wire. Crimp the gold male pin on center wire with the .068 square die. Slide on the chrome ferrule, then slip on the Amphenol connector pulling the 1/4" braded shield over the connector aft end. Slide up the chrome ferrule and crimp it with the .213 hex die.

Cordially,
Fred Carnes
RV-12 120457

lpeeds
07-08-2013, 09:27 PM
Slane-I installed mine several weeks ago and it is already cover up. I installed mine by the instructions and did not have a problem with the cable. You said there were two grommets and they were full. There was a third hole added above the original two in each of those locations. I don't recall what the additional holes were for but they had fewer wires in them. If I recall, I pulled the grommet out, cut it and put it around the cable and put the connector thru the hole before putting the grommet back in. Hope this helps.

Paul Eeds

Slane
07-08-2013, 11:17 PM
Slane - please clarify. Are you installing a Vans-supplied ADSB box with brackets etc? I did not hear those were out yet. They will come with complete instructions. What is the plans page you are following? I understand it will also involve a "second story" or extra hole or something on the blocks holding the the wires running below the pushrods. see here: http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showpost.php?p=742926&postcount=10

I did not know the ADSB kit was out either. I just called and ordered it on a will-call basis and picked it up later that same day. I don't have the instructions here at home, but the plans to install the ADS-B antenna cable call for it to be routed through the bushing/grommets on F-1202F and F-1203A. There is not enough space to run the cable through these grommets with the existing wires there. I think the best option is to remove the connector and install a new one once the cable is in place. Hope this clarifies. Slane

Slane
07-08-2013, 11:20 PM
Slane - please clarify. Are you installing a Vans-supplied ADSB box with brackets etc? I did not hear those were out yet. They will come with complete instructions. What is the plans page you are following? I understand it will also involve a "second story" or extra hole or something on the blocks holding the the wires running below the pushrods. see here: http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showpost.php?p=742926&postcount=10

Slane-I installed mine several weeks ago and it is already cover up. I installed mine by the instructions and did not have a problem with the cable. You said there were two grommets and they were full. There was a third hole added above the original two in each of those locations. I don't recall what the additional holes were for but they had fewer wires in them. If I recall, I pulled the grommet out, cut it and put it around the cable and put the connector thru the hole before putting the grommet back in. Hope this helps.

Paul Eeds

It does help. Thanks for the information Paul. Slane