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Oxygen fills in Canada

RickWoodall

RickWoodall

Well Known Member
Ok, trying to add 02 to my plane. What a joke in Canada.
Anybody able to help with how they do it here.

Was going to try and get my own d tank (new and legal) filled. Nobody will fill, no way. They want to rent you medical tanks, and swap when empty.
Ok will rent medical tanks. Nope, need a prescription. Ok, got a prescription.

Nope, still wont rent medical tanks if flying. So... the medical place will not fill or rent tanks to pilots big no no. The welding places wont sell, rent or fill to pilots. I have put about 6 hours into this and no joy. Nothing is possible it seems.

I really dont wish to get into transfill adapter, big welding tank (hundreds of $$ of stuff) etc for my minimal use... any suggestions.
 
Welding labels

on my tanks were the answer to a major source in my town. They were only willing to fill them if they changed the tank label to "Welder's OX". That was fine with me. They were the 3rd place I tried.
 
Rick, I took my medical prescription to the Hospital and got bottles from them. I had no hassles if I used their bottles. I used this system for three years with no issues. This past year I purchased my own tank and trans filler and have filled the tank at the airport from left over Snowbird tanks and also at our local welding shop. I have done quite a bit of work with the welding shop over the last few years and I am sure that that helped. You need to find a friend who has welding connections, filling your own tank is very easy and fast, once you get the correct hose. I used the Mountain High equipment and it is great stuff with good instructions.
 
Welding shop

Rick,

My brother is the manager for Praxair in Owen Sound. He may be able to help you out. There is of course a big difference from breathing grade O2 and welding O2.

He said to email him at the address below and he'll see what he can do for you. He'll need all the info as far as the tank, roadblocks you have and so on.

[email protected]

Cheers,


Don
 
I can never tell when people are kidding.
There is, of course, no difference in commercial oxygen whether for welding or breathing.
 
Kidding?

Not knowing enough about the different types of mixtures from medical use O2 and welding use O2, I'll believe the guy that deals with it everyday in his profession that if he says there is a difference, I'll take his word for it.

Is there something you want to share on it?
 
Difference:

So here it is...

"Medical oxy is very pure, while welding oxy can contain significant amount of just about anything. A flame isn't as particular about what it's being fed with as a pair of lungs are.
There is no difference in the gas, they both come out of the same tap. Gas suppliers are too cheap to have 2 separate containers for Oxygen so everything they sell is USP( that means it is safe for consumption). They 1 difference is a welding tank is not evacuated between refills and a medical tank is"

Not that reliable as it came wiki...
 
Thread drift.

I appreciate the help. To be clear there is no diff in med 02 and welding 02, same truck, pipe etc. There is moisture added at the hospital blah blah, further medical tank due require a little more paperwork, more testing etc.

I am 100% ok using welding o2, no issue at all. I made it as far as getting praxair tanks today and then getting a phone call to NOT USE....

I also spent today researching transport canada stuff, contacting copa, and talking personally to Hazardous good regulators and then the aviation branch of the hazardous good regulators. UGGGH.

Seems it no big deal if someone is willing to rent you the tanks and fill them.
Transport Canada Advisory Circular AC 700-002 is the most applicabale.

3.0 of that states CARS requirements, and that THERE ARE NO OPERATIONAL REGULATIONS PERTAINING TO PASSENGER USE OF OXYGEN FOR MEDICAL REASONS further line 5 of that states Internationally and domestically small cylinders of oxygen required for medical use are exempt from TDGR`s and ICAO TI`s with the prior approval of the air operator.

So I am the operator, there are no fare paying passengers and according to all the higher ups I spoke with its NO issue. BUT.....if nobody wants to rent or fill your tank...thats their choice.

So, will get a welding tank and transfil if forced, just seems dumb for a few tanks a year.

Anyway, lets not get into the medical or welding stuff...that has been well hashed out here in the archives and AOPA etc. Thanks for the feedback.
 
Difference

I lived and worked in the San Francisco Bay area driving trucks for Praxair. I would take a tanker loaded with Ox and go to the foundry in Oakland and would fill out a tag that was printed with "Industrial Grade Oxygen" than hop in my truck and go over to San Francisco General Hospital across the Bay Bridge and fill the tank for patients. The tag I filled out than said "USPS United States Pharmacy Grade Oxygen". I would carry both tags. You really don't want John Q Public to know that they are the same except the price.You tell me the difference and we'll both know. Like was said earlier it might be the tanks are cleared out first.
 
We've just realized that we have half a dozen people at our local field who want oxygen too... We haven't started looking yet, but we were thinking with that many people it might make sense to get a larger welding tank and split the cost, and just fill our own Aerox tanks.
 
Oxygen Refills in Great White North

Check with the local fire department, they get lots of oxygen re-fills and oxygen tank re-certifications.

As for me, welding shop. All types of compressed oxygen comes from the same liquid oxygen.
 
Snowflake said:
We've just realized that we have half a dozen people at our local field who want oxygen too... We haven't started looking yet, but we were thinking with that many people it might make sense to get a larger welding tank and split the cost, and just fill our own Aerox tanks.
Click to expand...

To do it "right" you will likely need a series of "cascading" tanks, and operate them properly.
 
Just throwing the idea out there

A thought just came to mind is: What do mountain climbers use? Or is that an entirely different system?

Cheers,
 
Now for a different twist... I'm looking at this from the perspective of having a spouse with irreversibly reduced lung capacity. This means that she should have O2 on almost every flight above 5000'. The discussion above leads me to believe the provision of bottled O2 is going to be a major pain in the posterior.

What about on-board oxygen concentrators? I seem to remember a reference to this kind of equipment in a Kitplanes magazine or similar within the past couple of years but can't find it now. Who makes these concentrators? How much do they weigh and how much power do they require? How many $$ required to get a fully operational system? Maybe the right answer for us is something other than carrying 02 in bottles...
 
slight thread drift...how do you USE O2????

so, once we get this filling thing sorted out, can someone from a military or other background advise how and where we can be trained to properly use the stuff?
I've read about the flow rates, saturation, etc. but I'm more concerned with.....
being at 15 or 18k this winter, and something ices up, apparently I have 15 seconds to point my ship down and away from obstacles, assess and resolve the issue, swap lines or regulators, etc. etc.
Sounds like a total neophyte like myself could be in a world of trouble, fast.

regarding 02 concentrators, I've only seen 120 volt powered units that weigh about 50 lbs. Maybe technology has something better now, but they weren't cheap!
 
How to use

Pulse oxymeters are now very inexpensive. Adjust flow to get your level up to 95% or more. Flow needed varies a lot from person to person.
 
Low Pass said:
Really? I thought they used compressed air in the firefighting SCBAs. Not sure I'd want pure O2 on my back while fighting a fire!! :eek:
Click to expand...

Firefighting SCBA's are, in fact filled with compressed air - not O2. But most fire departments these days are also Emergency Medical departments, and therefore have lots of O2 equipment for the medical rigs. Unfortunately for us, most of them have gotten away from having their own O2 cascade fill systems, and get a contractor to bring racks of pre-filled portable O2 bottles to the station. OSHA regs and liability make it too costly to have their own fill station (at least how the bean-counters look at it).
 
In our Dept. we contract the O2 filling, but have a compressor and cascade for the SCBA. Like Paul said, we use the O2 for medical calls.

If I think of it I'll ask the contractor if he'd fill bottles for aviation use. Once you mention the word aircraft, a lot of suppliers get squirmy for some reason. :eek:
 
Joy: I's say you are a prime candidate to get a transfill system, then rent or lease or buy tanks from the local O2 welding supplier. Guys here who have done that find that once the investment is made, the cost of the actual oxygen becomes so cheap that they use it all the time, e.g., above 10000', or even 5000' at night. You can slowly recoup some of your investment in the plumbing cost by offering it to your neighbors for $10 a fill, or whatever.

1963: Not sure I understood your comment. The time of useful consciousness at 18000' is very long, nothing like 15 seconds. The issue is that your thought process will slowly degrade. Remember at 15k you don't even have to offer it to your passengers! Another good reason to have a pulseoxymeter. Just check yourself out every so often. If you are bored, you can watch your O2 levels change as you change your breathing. Long deep breaths are much more effective than quick shallow ones, for example.
 
Thanks for your comments, Bob. I think my main concern with a transfill system is that I don't feel comfortable having a bunch of high pressure tanks hanging around all the time. Have had some experience with 3000PSI transfill systems and have seen enough to have me concerned with the on-going safety aspects. An O2 concentrator would take most of these concerns away. The real issue then becomes having an O2 concentrator which will supply both occupants simultaneously; the smaller, portable units are definitely not capable of this kind of flow rate. For the time being it's looking more and more like medical suppliers will be the suppliers of choice, but time will tell as I don't have to make a decision any time soon.
 
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