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SteinAir
07-16-2012, 08:19 AM
Today Garmin announced their new portable bluetooth ADSB receiver, the GDL 39 includes a built in WAAS GPS receiver (which by the way can send the GPS data to your Ipad). Incldues both traffic and weather info (except for the 496 which is traffic only), is portable and can display on the G3X, Garmin Pilot App/Ipad, most of the portables, and note that Bluetooth support will be added to the 795/796 later. Price is $799, but includes a whole lot of goodies. More details are available here at the Garmin website. (https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=272&pID=93601)

uk_figs
07-16-2012, 08:31 AM
Shame no weather on the 496 (built into my panel) as it would have been the perfect upgrade path to drop the XM subscription, assume the receiver is wired to the rs 232 bus for the traffic. Does it work with Foreflight for the gps position and weather (I have a wifi ipad)

Sid Lambert
07-16-2012, 08:36 AM
I'd love to see a demo on the 500 series Aera from anyone going to OSH.

rocketbob
07-16-2012, 08:47 AM
Shame no weather on the 496 (built into my panel) as it would have been the perfect upgrade path to drop the XM subscription, assume the receiver is wired to the rs 232 bus for the traffic. Does it work with Foreflight for the gps position and weather (I have a wifi ipad)

Indeed, I'd like to know why they wouldn't make this compatible with the 496.

SteinAir
07-16-2012, 09:04 AM
I don't know about Foreflight, but my own guess would be no...since they have their own pretty good app (and I think you get 3 free mo's of it when you buy the ADSB box). Regarding the 496, it's a discontinued product that is built on technology and also introduced almost a decade ago (and is technically several generations behind), so I'm also not entirely surprised they wouldn't expend a lot of R&D on either of the aformentioned issues. I don't all the details of the bits/bytes, but perhaps one of the Garmin guys will jump in here to explain in more detail.

Not taking sides or speaking for anyone, just reasoning it out in my own mind. FYI, there is a box coming out for the certified installs as well, but not until later in the year and at a much higher price. There was also a new weather radar announced, but at the price of a new Lycoming I'm guessing most of us won't want one!

Cheers,
Stein

rocketbob
07-16-2012, 09:14 AM
I have a 496 and a 396 installed in two different panels and they still work great, but can't upgrade since they're physically installed and don't have the room for any of the larger portables. I would buy two in a heartbeat if they would make them compatible.

Brantel
07-16-2012, 09:14 AM
Stein,

Is this the promissed affordable ADS-B solution for the G3X or is there more to come?

I ask because this solution still requires a separate ADS-B out device to be compliant for the future and to get full use of the traffic.

So the bottom line is will we still need a 330ES type xponder or a third party ADS-B xmitter or is there more in the works for the G3X system?

uk_figs
07-16-2012, 10:02 AM
The Garmin approach is attractive because it drives their portable units which are much easier to read in the RV cockpit than the iPad, I assume the unit will drive the display data in a similar fashion to the XM input (i.e wind speed/direction, METARs etc) and I also assume that you do not need to upgrade the the **6 versions as you will not need the XM antenna (unless you want the music :D). If the gps input via bluetooth uses the ios profile I also assume it will drive ios gps apps (MotionX etc) which should therefore allow it to drive current position on Foreflight, Skychartpro etc. The Garmin App does not get great reviews on the app store.
The Aera 500 series would fit in the 496 space but again does not get great reviews on VAF for cockpit readability so you are up to 695/795 size portable which means a panel redo in my case.
If you go that route you have to look at the 795 due to the 695 soon suffering the same obsolescence issues as the 496, net result being about $3000 for the upgrade which is about 75 months of XM subscription and that is assuming that XM will not counter the free weather and offer a cheaper subscription to keep their subscriber base.
For those of us who do not have unlimited funds it does not seem like an easy call, a 496 weather input would have been a no brainer.
My guess is that I will find even more options next week:confused:

Gash
07-16-2012, 10:04 AM
I'm waiting to see what Dynon has up their sleeve after Oshkosh. I'm installing the Skyview with all the bells and whistles, including the ADS-B out transponder. I called Dynon last week to ask about future ADS-B out capabilities, and the guy I talked to (can't remember his name) seemed to hint that more on this subject is coming out soon. I hope Dynon steps up to the plate and offers something to compete with Garmin.

SteinAir
07-16-2012, 10:17 AM
Stein,

Is this the promissed affordable ADS-B solution for the G3X or is there more to come?

I ask because this solution still requires a separate ADS-B out device to be compliant for the future and to get full use of the traffic.

So the bottom line is will we still need a 330ES type xponder or a third party ADS-B xmitter or is there more in the works for the G3X system?

If you end up with the G3X and the GTX23 (the low price one) remote txpdr which most folks get with the G3X system, then you're covered anyway. That being said, here is some of the verbiage from their website:

The GDL 39 can receive ADS-B position reports directly from other aircrafts in your vicinity. Because the FAA permits ADS-B broadcasts on 2 frequencies (978 UAT and 1090 ES), the GDL 39 contains both receivers so you can see a comprehensive view of all ADS-B “Out” equipped targets. The compatible display˛ will alert you by announcing traffic targets both audibly and visually. Spoken audio alerts announce “Traffic, Traffic” to get you looking right away.

ADS-B “In” technology also allows the GDL 39 to receive Traffic Information Service-Broadcast (TIS-B) information. TIS-B allows you to view the same dynamic traffic picture that ATC ground controllers are seeing when you're either participating with an ADS-B "Out" solution or within a certain range of another ADS-B "Out" participating aircraft when within a service area. Garmin correlation technology automatically displays the highest-integrity traffic data from multiple sources, preventing ghost or duplicate targets.


Cheers,
Stein

Neal@F14
07-16-2012, 10:18 AM
I have a 496 and a 396 installed in two different panels and they still work great, but can't upgrade since they're physically installed and don't have the room for any of the larger portables. I would buy two in a heartbeat if they would make them compatible.

The Garmin webpage says the GDL-39 is compatible with the Aera 5xx series portables, and Air Gizmos has designed their Aera panel dock to use the same exact cutout and mounting screw holes as the original x96 panel dock.

airguy
07-16-2012, 10:33 AM
I'm waiting to see what Dynon has up their sleeve after Oshkosh. I'm installing the Skyview with all the bells and whistles, including the ADS-B out transponder. I called Dynon last week to ask about future ADS-B out capabilities, and the guy I talked to (can't remember his name) seemed to hint that more on this subject is coming out soon. I hope Dynon steps up to the plate and offers something to compete with Garmin.

Same here, but I also have a 172 in the meantime that needs weather and traffic, and this sounds like a good way to get it on my iPad.

rocketbob
07-16-2012, 11:28 AM
The Garmin webpage says the GDL-39 is compatible with the Aera 5xx series portables, and Air Gizmos has designed their Aera panel dock to use the same exact cutout and mounting screw holes as the original x96 panel dock.

I don't have an Air Gizmo's panel dock. I CNC machined a cutout that fits the 496.

To that end I considered upgrading to the Aera but there were features missing that the 396/496 have.

tobinbasford
07-16-2012, 12:27 PM
Regarding the 496, it's a discontinued product that is built on technology and also introduced almost a decade ago

A decade ago?? The 496 was released six years ago this summer. Just wish Garmin wouldn't discontinue products so quickly.

Mike S
07-16-2012, 12:38 PM
http://www.aopa.org/aircraft/articles/2012/120716subscription-free-weather-traffic-from-garmin.html

rocketbob
07-16-2012, 01:00 PM
A decade ago?? The 496 was released six years ago this summer. Just wish Garmin wouldn't discontinue products so quickly.

This is why I'm a bit of a Luddite when it comes to glass panel stuff. I don't like forced obsolescence.

I am wondering what kinds of deals XM will be offering to retain customers. Something for them is better than nothing if one is considering upgrading.

loopfuzz
07-16-2012, 01:06 PM
http://www.aopa.org/aircraft/articles/2012/120716subscription-free-weather-traffic-from-garmin.html

This article gives a good basic overview of what "ADS-B Out" is. And why without out you won't always get traffic. And how in 2020 everyone is suppose to have a ADS-B Out in their plane. But until then, products like this are a cheaper solution.

Chris.

Neal@F14
07-16-2012, 01:39 PM
I am wondering what kinds of deals XM will be offering to retain customers. Something for them is better than nothing if one is considering upgrading.


Judging by their past history, they could likely be raising their fees even higher to attempt to make up for the lost revenue from all the customers that'll be leaving for the free ADS-B weather.

SteinAir
07-16-2012, 01:39 PM
A decade ago?? The 496 was released six years ago this summer. Just wish Garmin wouldn't discontinue products so quickly.

You are correct...however when products are released they aren't magically created a day/week before they are released. Manufacturing starts 6mo-1yr before hand, and the design lifecycle some similar period of time before that. Given that fact that the 296/396/496 "product family" started years before that (and their own development timelines) and there's your decade+ that I was referring to. Indeed much of the technology and componetry is even older - think subcomponents on boards, displays, etc.. The reality is that box you buy when it is released, can be 6mo-3yrs old in terms of technology.

It's a sad reality, but almsot all electrical devices are updated on a regular basis. Are you using a cell phone that is of that vintage, how about your computer? I too wish things would last longer than they do (and that I could by tools of good quality), but like computers or anything else electronic, technology just keeps moving ahead and things get outdated quickly. The iPhone came out later than the 496, and it's going to have it's 5th refresh this fall; there has been 3 iPad's in 2 years; Microsoft still can't make a version of windows that works. I could go on and on...but the point is that things just get superceded. Heck, I'm one of the rare folks driving a 10 year old car! My point is that obviously this is not just a Garmin phenomenon and it's naive to think they would not try to keep their products competitive with other developments in the market.

I also hope XM comes up with something, but they seem to care less and less about "us" (aviation folks) since the merger. Sadly, Neil is probably correct in the fact that one of Dilbert's management team at that company will decide to do something idiotic with rates & subscriptions.

Just my 2 cents as usual.

Cheers,
Stein

tobinbasford
07-16-2012, 02:35 PM
Just wish Garmin wouldn't discontinue products so quickly.

I meant to say, I wish Garmin wouldn't stop SUPPORTING products so quickly.

UnPossible
07-16-2012, 07:59 PM
Stein (or anyone else that might know).....

Any idea as to how sensitive the antennea will be to placement?
I'd really don't want to mount this on the dash in front of me or the co-pilot...

Do you think it would work if it were mounted somewhere in the baggage area? Or is there a better location that would keep it more out of sight?

Thanks,
Jason

Pepe
07-16-2012, 08:21 PM
Notice that it only detects ADS-B out traffic. 98% of the GA fleet has no ADS-B out but a Mode C transponder. You will need the GTS-800 to detect the Mode C traffic.

As for weather I will still keep my XM\WX. Works on the ground and in the Bahamas. With XM I know what weather I will be facing while taxing so I can plan my heading to avoid the approaching storm. With ADS-B WX you will likely be heading into the approaching storm with no wx data. Not to mention that the ADS-B WX updates are much longer than those on XM.

Kyle Boatright
07-16-2012, 08:28 PM
Realistically, I can use the weather app on my phone to get current radar prior to takeoff. So there might be a 5-10 minute gap between when I shut down the phone and when I get to altitude and the ADS-B weather loads.

The question I have is how well does the Garmin app and this technology work with an iPhone, because the iPad is too big for my cockpit.

apkp777
07-16-2012, 08:40 PM
Just when I had determined that I would go to OSH and buy the Stratus Bluetooth device for ForeFlight/IPAD, Garmin had to go and throw a new device into the mix!

So, the question is...how would this device compare to the Stratus/Foreflight?

Kyle Boatright
07-16-2012, 08:50 PM
Just when I had determined that I would go to OSH and buy the Stratus Bluetooth device for ForeFlight/IPAD, Garmin had to go and throw a new device into the mix!

So, the question is...how would this device compare to the Stratus/Foreflight?

This one apparently works with a handheld GPS which will drive an autopilot. That's a big plus in my mind.

A number of users have reported temperature related shut-downs of the Stratus device. A cheap sun shield seems to be the solution, but should that be necessary for an $800 item?

If I had an Aera, the Garmin ADS-B product would be a slam dunk. But I don't, so it isn't. ;-(

Brantel
07-16-2012, 09:33 PM
Stein (or anyone else that might know).....

Any idea as to how sensitive the antennea will be to placement?
I'd really don't want to mount this on the dash in front of me or the co-pilot...

Do you think it would work if it were mounted somewhere in the baggage area? Or is there a better location that would keep it more out of sight?

Thanks,
Jason

Comments were made by Garmin folks that the antenna can be remote mounted. I see what looks like a MCX connector on the side in the pic.

Brantel
07-16-2012, 09:43 PM
Notice that it only detects ADS-B out traffic. 98% of the GA fleet has no ADS-B out but a Mode C transponder. You will need the GTS-800 to detect the Mode C traffic.


This is not entirely correct. It receives traffic air to air from ADS-B out planes but will also receives (with a catch) the ground based transmissions which are a composite of everything that ATC sees including Mode-S, Mode-C and Mode-A targets (might even include generic radar returns, not sure on that).

Now the catch to it is that the FAA will only beam ground based traffic to planes with ADS-B out. If you are close enough to the plane that does, you can get the ground based traffic signal. If you are not, you don't.

If you have ADS-B out, you get it by default.

The unit is also dual band which is a good thing.

SteinAir
07-16-2012, 09:57 PM
I believe there is an optional antenna (I'll check tomorrow and report back). Brian beat me to this...if you have the "out" and are receiving back, many times the Mode C traffic is included in the data. The ADSB receiver doesn't actually "detect" anything as mentioned by Pepe...it receives data - data that often times includes all transponder equipped aircraft, adsb equipped or not. The GTS indeed does detect other transponder equipped planes. This can be a confusing subject, but Garmin has a new website which simplifies some of the ADSB mystery. Agreed that the weather is still better with the XM (& I enjoy the music too)....but free is good and its better than no weather.

Also, I've had no problem with an iPad in my RV6....fits right beside me when closed and is far superior to use over my phone for Foreflight/Garmin app viewing (I do have both, but haven't used either on my phone since I got an Ipad). When flying, I pull it out, see what I want, goof around with it for awhile on my lap, then put it away again.

Just my 2 cents as usual.
cheers,
Stein

Sig600
07-16-2012, 10:31 PM
Seems like you can save even more cash by not purchasing the XM antennae with this thing, so aside from saving the subscription cost this thing should pay for itself pretty quick, no?

Stein, with the G3X, GTX-23ES, and this gizmo would a user be all set up for full ADS-B capabilities?

Also, if you plumb this thing straigh into a G3X can you also connect it to an iPad via bluetooth simulataneously?

skybolt31
07-16-2012, 10:31 PM
It's a sad reality, but almsot all electrical devices are updated on a regular basis. Are you using a cell phone that is of that vintage, how about your computer? I too wish things would last longer than they do (and that I could by tools of good quality), but like computers or anything else electronic, technology just keeps moving ahead and things get outdated quickly. The iPhone came out later than the 496, and it's going to have it's 5th refresh this fall; there has been 3 iPad's in 2 years; Microsoft still can't make a version of windows that works. I could go on and on...but the point is that things just get superceded. Heck, I'm one of the rare folks driving a 10 year old car! My point is that obviously this is not just a Garmin phenomenon and it's naive to think they would not try to keep their products competitive with other developments in the market.
Just my 2 cents as usual.

Cheers,
Stein

It is amazing how quick things change and fortunately or unfortunately that isn't likely to change. I think the problem is that if I pay $2500 for an airplane GPS and they come out with a newer better one, that is OK, but when they stop supporting my 5 year old unit, that's harder to swallow. Especially when they are now competing with a $400 Ipad and maybe a $250 Kindle/Nook. I don't mind replacing a $200 phone every two years, if it was a $2000 phone that would be more troublesome. Also, if this new device won't work with Foreflight or WingX I would probably go with one of the competitors.

SteinAir
07-16-2012, 10:54 PM
Seems like you can save even more cash by not purchasing the XM antennae with this thing, so aside from saving the subscription cost this thing should pay for itself pretty quick, no?

Stein, with the G3X, GTX-23ES, and this gizmo would a user be all set up for full ADS-B capabilities?

Also, if you plumb this thing straigh into a G3X can you also connect it to an iPad via bluetooth simulataneously?

I believe the answer to all three questions is yes...Garmin will correct me if I'm wrong! :)

Cheers,
Stein

Brantel
07-17-2012, 04:53 AM
Stein, with the G3X, GTX-23ES, and this gizmo would a user be all set up for full ADS-B capabilities?

Also, if you plumb this thing straigh into a G3X can you also connect it to an iPad via bluetooth simulataneously?

First question is yes as long as Garmin gets the 23ES TSO-166b approved which I have no doubt they will.

The website says that the unit will serve 2 Bluetooth and 1 hardwired connection at the same time.

David-aviator
07-17-2012, 05:49 AM
From Garmin's web site -

Note: The GDL 39 is a non-certified receive-only product. It does not provide ADS-B “Out” capability to satisfy FAA mandate requirements.

It is a cool device but does not get your data in the system. You may be able to see other complying ADS-B aircraft but they will not know you are there.

Sort of like taking something but giving nothing in return....from a safety point of view, it is a compromise.

I'd like to see Garmin do a fully compatible system at a reasonable cost.

Brantel
07-17-2012, 06:01 AM
From Garmin's web site -

Note: The GDL 39 is a non-certified receive-only product. It does not provide ADS-B “Out” capability to satisfy FAA mandate requirements.

It is a cool device but does not get your data in the system. You may be able to see other complying ADS-B aircraft but they will not know you are there.

Sort of like taking something but giving nothing in return....from a safety point of view, it is a compromise.

Yes they will because your radar return will be transmitted to them via the ground stations.

What you may not get is the composite ground based data because the FAA only xmits that to planes with ADS-B out. Sometimes you do get it if you are close enough to a plane that is getting it.

The recommended way to use this device is to have a ES type mode S xponder that way you are fully using the system.

Sig600
07-17-2012, 06:25 AM
I believe the answer to all three questions is yes...Garmin will correct me if I'm wrong! :)

Cheers,
Stein

First question is yes as long as Garmin gets the 23ES TSO-166b approved which I have no doubt they will.

The website says that the unit will serve 2 Bluetooth and 1 hardwired connection at the same time.

http://www.scancrit.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/excellent-4689_preview.png

Walt
07-17-2012, 06:39 AM
Looks like a nice unit but I'm a little disappointed that Garmin elected to make this another "receive only" device rather than a full up UAT tranceiver with a WAAS GPS reciever built in.

This is going to lock you into seperate mode S xpdr/certifed GPS source for a full-up ADSB system.

Peterk
07-17-2012, 06:51 AM
I agree with Walt, Looks like a copy-cat Stratus...even has the same price. Of course its also something to "announce" at OSH. Think I'll continue to hold off till this market settles down. Kinda reminds me of the first GPS'.

Brantel
07-17-2012, 07:24 AM
Looks like a nice unit but I'm a little disappointed that Garmin elected to make this another "receive only" device rather than a full up UAT tranceiver with a WAAS GPS reciever built in.

This is going to lock you into seperate mode S xpdr/certifed GPS source for a full-up ADSB system.

They did say they have another announcement for later this week. Who knows, it might be a UAT to compete with Navworx.

This thing does fill a gap for people like me that are planning a G3X based panel. I can use my existing 430W as the GPS source, add this and the GTX-23ES remote mounted transponder and I am good to go with less than $2900 invested in the ADS-B hardware.

Brantel
07-17-2012, 07:34 AM
I agree with Walt, Looks like a copy-cat Stratus...even has the same price. Of course its also something to "announce" at OSH. Think I'll continue to hold off till this market settles down. Kinda reminds me of the first GPS'.

While it is similar to the Stratus, it has many more features than the Stratus like hardwire options, BlueTooth, dual band and traffic reception. Also the reports of heat issues with the Stratus is concerning.

n567vb
07-17-2012, 07:46 AM
So how about if I'm using my Aera 500 to provide GPS to my AFS 4500, can it also pass along the weather and traffic info to my AFS screens with the new garmin adsb? That would be awesome!

Vince
RV-7

Strasnuts
07-17-2012, 08:04 AM
Stein,

Yet another question,

So I have the G3X with GTS800 and GTX330 (es). I'm covered as far as nextgen is concerned but if I wanted to drop my XM (I could listen to my music on my Iphone/Ipad/Ipod like I do anyway) and get weather on the ADS-b unit. I know the XM weather has more features but will it be worth it? Will my GTS800 ever show ADS-b weather?

SteinAir
07-17-2012, 08:07 AM
Stein,

Yet another question,

So I have the G3X with GTS800 and GTX330 (es). I'm covered as far as nextgen is concerned but if I wanted to drop my XM (I could listen to my music on my Iphone/Ipad/Ipod like I do anyway) and get weather on the ADS-b unit. I know the XM weather has more features but will it be worth it? Will my GTS800 ever show ADS-b weather?

I can't really comment about the "worth it" part because that's dependent on each persons perspective, personally I still like the XM weather product better than the ADSB product, but it's much better now than it was - and coverage is getting better every day. Regarding the GTX, I'm doubtful it'll ever be patched in with the weather (different technologies)....

Cheers,
Stein

g3xpert
07-17-2012, 08:20 AM
Stein (or anyone else that might know).....

Any idea as to how sensitive the antennea will be to placement?
I'd really don't want to mount this on the dash in front of me or the co-pilot...

Do you think it would work if it were mounted somewhere in the baggage area? Or is there a better location that would keep it more out of sight?

Thanks,
Jason

Jason,

We added a FAQ section to the bottom of the Oshkosh announcement posting (http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=88734). The question about remote mounting the GDL39 is answered there. Let us know if you have additional questions.

Sean,

I agree with Stein. With a GTS800 and XM, you are already VERY well equipped to receive traffic and weather. There are a couple of new weather products (e.g. NOTAMS and Temps Aloft) that the GDL39 provides which XM doesn't, but likewise FIS-B doesn't currently have the lighting and storm cell indications provided by XM. I would say sit back, relax, and enjoy the great G3X system you have!

Thanks everyone for your interest,
Steve

TThurston
07-17-2012, 08:45 AM
I live and fly in the mountains. Ground-based transmissions might be visible up above 15,000 feet. But below that there's often a mountain blocking the signal from the ground station. I wonder how useful ADS-B will be for small GA aircraft in the mountains.

GLPalinkas
07-17-2012, 09:15 AM
The question I have is how well does the Garmin app and this technology work with an iPhone, because the iPad is too big for my cockpit.

Coming soon to an Apple retailer near you....the iPad-mini ....at least I hope. Lots of good chatter out there about it. 7.85" and much cheaper. Seems to be the perfect size for the cockpit. I would guess it will be very similar to an Pad 2 (not the current version) so readability might be in question for some users. Others are extremely happy with an iPad/2..... IMHO. I hope it will have the same capabilities as the current units, as far as 3/4G, GPS, 8/16/32 GB, etc.

http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2012/07/16/ipad-mini-is-is-probably-real-thin-as-ipod-touch/?intcmp=features

Strasnuts
07-18-2012, 03:40 PM
Sean,

I agree with Stein. With a GTS800 and XM, you are already VERY well equipped to receive traffic and weather. There are a couple of new weather products (e.g. NOTAMS and Temps Aloft) that the GDL39 provides which XM doesn't, but likewise FIS-B doesn't currently have the lighting and storm cell indications provided by XM. I would say sit back, relax, and enjoy the great G3X system you have!

Thanks everyone for your interest,
Steve

I know my traffic and weather is better BUT I would like to have the option of not paying the 745$ a year and use FIS-B weather. So my GTS800 has ADS-B IN but not FIS-B IN - Is that correct? So I would need the GDL39 to actually get the FIS-B weather.

g3xpert
07-18-2012, 04:30 PM
I know my traffic and weather is better BUT I would like to have the option of not paying the 745$ a year and use FIS-B weather. So my GTS800 has ADS-B IN but not FIS-B IN - Is that correct? So I would need the GDL39 to actually get the FIS-B weather.

Hello Sean,

Yes, you are correct. The GTS-800 doesn't receive FIS-B, so you would need a GDL39 to receive free FIS-B weather.

Thanks,
Steve

Strasnuts
07-18-2012, 08:13 PM
OK, Thanks for the info.

I do love my G3X/GTS800 system.

Now if The FAA approves real time TFR's from FIS-b input, I might have to install it with my GTS800.

Any word of TFR input and if it would be a legal source for information?

Thanks Tim, Sorry for all the questions.

airguy
07-18-2012, 08:30 PM
OK, Thanks for the info.

I do love my G3X/GTS800 system.

Now if The FAA approves real time TFR's from FIS-b input, I might have to install it with my GTS800.

Any word of TFR input and if it would be a legal source for information?

Thanks Tim, Sorry for all the questions.

FAA? Realtime? You really just used both those in the same sentence?

dynonsupport
07-18-2012, 08:32 PM
The FAA does already broadcast TFR's over ADS-B. They broadcast the active status of things like MOA's too.

--Ian
Dynon Avionics

Strasnuts
07-18-2012, 09:23 PM
Ya, I guess the two words shouldn't be used together....

My question is:

I know you can't legally use XM TFR information but can you legally use FIS-b TFR information?

Right now the only legal choice is FSS. RIGHT?

airguy
07-18-2012, 09:29 PM
Right now the only legal choice is FSS. RIGHT?

Or IFR/VFR-Flight-Following vectors, that puts it on ATC to send you where you should/should not be.

It would likely protect on enforcement action, but won't stop an air-to-air missile if it ever comes to that.

BHunt
07-18-2012, 09:49 PM
VFR Flight Following doesn't keep you safe. It's workload dependent on ATC.

Or IFR/VFR-Flight-Following vectors, that puts it on ATC to send you where you should/should not be.

It would likely protect on enforcement action, but won't stop an air-to-air missile if it ever comes to that.

airguy
07-18-2012, 10:05 PM
VFR Flight Following doesn't keep you safe. It's workload dependent on ATC.

True - but at least they have to tell you "unable" and that lets you know that your skin is your own.

I've been flying PP-ASEL for 13 years and I've only had 2 occasions in 600 hours where I was told "unable" in response to a request for VFR flight following, but maybe I'm the exception to the rule.

BHunt
07-18-2012, 11:36 PM
The point I'm trying to make is that ATC has no obligation to fly your plane for you. Even on FF, it is your responsibility to remain VFR and out of any airspace you're not cleared into (ie. TFR's, Class B). The blame won't be on ATC if you venture into one thinking "ATC will steer me around anything I'm not supposed to fly in".

True - but at least they have to tell you "unable" and that lets you know that your skin is your own.

I've been flying PP-ASEL for 13 years and I've only had 2 occasions in 600 hours where I was told "unable" in response to a request for VFR flight following, but maybe I'm the exception to the rule.

60av8tor
07-19-2012, 04:12 AM
+1 - similar to busted altitude while IFR. The responsibility always remains with the pilot.