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GRT EFIS - One display limitations

R

RVPilotDotCom

Member
My panel sports a single Grand Rapids EFIS display with an EIS 4000 to collect engine data. Now that I have some serious simulated flight under my belt, I find that having just one display in this configuration is pretty much unworkable.

I need to be able to scan both my primary flight instruments ( view 1 on the EFIS ) and my engine status ( view 3 on the EFIS ) pretty much continuously and this is just not possible with a single display.

While there are shared screen modes, they are severely limited in the data they can display because of the size of the screen and the lack of available real estate to work with. The engine monitor has a small display capable of showing the state of any 4 items but I have a lot more things I?m monitoring that I would like to always view.

I?m particularly concerned about first flight as I want to be able to view the ALL the engine data and primary flight systems for obvious reasons.

Is anyone using this configuration, and if so how are you making it work for you?
 
Isn't there a way to display all of the engine monitor stuff with just a small subset of really important flight data (airspeed and altitude come to mind....maybe heading).
 
Tough Problem...

Jim,

AS a Dual-screen GRT user (early adopter), I understand your dilemna completely. For my first few flights, I felt that the EFIS Systems Monitoring page was just about the most important thing I had on the panel - since I have NO dedicated engine instruments at all. Although I am a huge supporter of GRT, and think they have a tremendous product, I have never been a particular fan of the EIS 4000 by itself - I think it does a great job of feeding data to the EFIS, and serves well as a backup, but it is a bit limited by itself.

Once you are though your test phase, you will probably get very comfortable without the systems page being displayed all the time - everything is limit-sensed, and will alarm if it is not where you want it. But if you don't have any regular engine/systems gauges, you probably shoudl build a custom page with the most critical stuff on th EIS - I think you can put up to 8 parameters on a custom page? I am not sure, becasue I haven't done it.

This is a good question, which leads to a hard truth - an EFIS panel is a commitment - you kind of have to go "all the way" to get the full benefit. I am wonderfully happy with my dual-screen setup, and was just flying some ILS approaches this morning in real weather, just to continue exploring the capability. The full-up system is hard to beat!

In answer to John - It is easy to put a subset of systems data on the Primary Flight Display, but not quite that easy to put PFD info on the detailed systems page (I don't think you can). THe split screen modes give you high level data from both pages - not detailed data from either.

Paul
 
Easy answers

So Paul, speaking hypothetically of course? :D

Say this builder had a one display system and they were thinking very,very strongly about upgrading to a two display system?

Did you cut one big rectangular hole on your panel and stack the displays, or did you cut two independent holes ( one for each display )? I note that two displays stacked on top of each other comes to 9.4 inches. Finding this kind of space on the PIC center of his/her field of vision on Van?s panel is a challenge to say the least. I figure I can do it if I stack em tight.

Also? do you suppose that one could just put a standard DB25 one to one cable and extend the data input for their EIS 4000 to relocate it to a different part of the panel ( say the copilots side )? I know you can?t add on to the CHT & EGT cabling without using that special wire that they provide so I would have to make other provisions for that.

I had planned on adding another display after 100 hrs or so but I can see that smart money has me doing that sooner. ;)

- Jim
 
One Hole...

Jim,

I cut one tall hole and riveted angles to each side to stiffen and provide a place to attach brackets for other stuff. I even included my Annunciator Panel height in the hole - no problem at all! This gives an added benefit of a HUGE access hole in the panel to work on other things behind - removing the DU's takes about a minute...

I see no problem at all extending the wiring harness to/from the EIS - all this wiring has gotten so simple and reliable with modern digital electronics and DB's...I have considerable service loops behind my panel - I can pull the whole thing, have it in my lap, and everything is still connected.

I'm sure you can find a way to hide an extra DU purchase in amongst all the bits and pieces of other stuff you need to buy... ;)

Paul
 
As one other option, just so you don't over look it...

I have 3 years and 500 trouble free hours flying behind just the single EIS4000! With no glass hooked up at all!

So it really can be done. I know its not what all the cool kids have, but it has all the monitoring you need and can display all the needed parameters on a single combined screen. Setup your alert values and it will flash the red light when needed.

Just a different perspective I guess if you don't want to spend the extra money right now.
 
Ironflight said:
Jim,
Once you are though your test phase, you will probably get very comfortable without the systems page being displayed all the time - everything is limit-sensed, and will alarm if it is not where you want it. from both pages - not detailed data from either.
Paul
Click to expand...

There could be a problem if you're running Lean Of Peak, which more and more people seem to want to do these days. My understanding is that the EIS 4000 has no special functions for LOP operations and therefore will not limit sense (and therefore warn you) if any cylinder runs outside of a desirable EGT. Therefore I suspect that it would be a bit dodgy not to be monitoring full engine systems when running LOP.
 
True

Bob Barrow said:
There could be a problem if you're running Lean Of Peak, which more and more people seem to want to do these days. My understanding is that the EIS 4000 has no special functions for LOP operations and therefore will not limit sense (and therefore warn you) if any cylinder runs outside of a desirable EGT. Therefore I suspect that it would be a bit dodgy not to be monitoring full engine systems when running LOP.
Click to expand...


That is true Bob - it does nothing special for LOP operaitons. I get a bit nervous with all of the talk about how carefully folks are monitoring their temperatures to run LOP though....makes me wonderi if anyone is looking outside! :p (only kinda half kidding....)

Paul
 
One is enough

I have two GRT Screens, but even so, for the first 30hrs I could not bare to have the Engine Display replaced by the NAV display. But by that time, my insecurity of the fan stopping or the temps going ballistic evaporated and I was comfortable cruising without the Engine Display.

Though I think two screens are desirable and Three would be better (but that's a **** of a lot of pairs of shoes I would have to allocate to my darling wife as an offset.) with one EFIS screen you can make up a 'Favorites' page on the EIS displaying those engine parameters you consider worth monitoring.

These are some you don't need as you will be alerted to them.

EGT: Set a limit to alert for a DIFERENCE in EGTs.
CHT: Set a limit for TOO LOW and COOLING TO FAST
Oil temp & Press, Fuel Press, AMPS and VOLTS can all have limits set of course.

But I feel the best solution is to buy your wife more shoes.
Pete.

PS. I am sure every one else has had trouble trying to fine tune the AUXSF (Scale Factor) and AUXOFF (Offset) plus the illusive IIDDID AND --+-++.
If any one wants a list of what worked for me I would be happy to provide it. [email protected].
Better still some WEB Guru might start a database of what works with what.
Pete
 
akarmy said:
As one other option, just so you don't over look it...

I have 3 years and 500 trouble free hours flying behind just the single EIS4000! With no glass hooked up at all!

So it really can be done. I know its not what all the cool kids have, but it has all the monitoring you need and can display all the needed parameters on a single combined screen. Setup your alert values and it will flash the red light when needed.
QUOTE]


I've got to go with Andy on this one. I have 225 hours and just over a year with just an EIS4000 for engine instruments. During my first few flights I kind of wish I have the big color screan. Mainly because I wasn't sure where to set all the alarms so I was getting a few false alarms. Now I find that the EIS has more than enough info. I use three different screens on my EIS and turned all the rest off.

One question though, how many flight instruments do you really plan on looking at during your first flight? Do you really need an attitude indicator or a GPS for a local VFR flight?
Click to expand...
 
fodrv7 said:
Though I think two screens are desirable and Three would be better (but that's a **** of a lot of pairs of shoes I would have to allocate to my darling wife as an offset.)
Click to expand...

Pete, that Imelda Marcos has got a lot to answer for.
 
Jim,
The EIS can display up to 8 items. The standard configuration for page 1 is:

RPM
MP
Fuel Pressure
EGT (highest temp)
Oil Temp
Oil Pressure
Fuel Flow
CHT (highest temp)

My first homebuilt had an EIS so I'm very comfortable looking at that display.

I have a dual screen EFIS, one display on the left and one on the right. The EIS is mounted below the right EFIS screen. To tell you the truth on my first flight I hardly even looked at the EFIS screen. I was much more concerned about the engine stats than I was about the PFD. The backup ASI and ALT are just to the left of the EFIS screen, that?s what I was looking at to get that data for slow flight and entering the traffic pattern.

If you can mount a second display that would be best. Not for monitoring the engine data though, you'll want to be able to display the PFD along with one of the moving MAP pages. I always have the 430 on map or traffic but the EFIS is much easier to use for airport/navaid distance, runway info, radio frequency, METARS, et.....

Good luck with the first flight,
Gary
N715AB 160 hours
 
EIS display

I too have been kicking around the idea of the EFIS screen in conjunction with my EIS4000.

However, all I really would want differently is the % of horsepower display. with that being said, I can't justify the $$$$ for it. I have my handy dandy power chart laminated and laying between my seats. (= $1.50 for laminating at Staples).

The EIS4000 is a really nice instrument and if you put the red warning light in your primary vision cone, it will alert you of any offending parameter.

Oh yeah, you'll also learn quickly that if you set your warning parameters too tight.... that red light will make you **** yourself when it starts flashing on climb out during your FIRST flight!

Jeff
N247DE -7A 98 hrs.
 
Just checking on the MFDs setup screens - you can get %power for the data entries - would mean that can be on the primary screen - does that help?

Carl
 
Thanks for all the fish....

Ok, right you are. No need for a GPS, moving map, AI, or DG for the first flight. I will be in or above the pattern in VFR for the entire event. I have flown behind several digital instruments for the ?first time? and while they can be enormously helpful once you get them programmed right ( correct limits, warnings turned on or off to your liking ). They can be a HUGE distraction if they go off for some inane reason ( like a gear warning on final when your not expecting it ).

I installed a VM1000 in my 8A and I must admit it spoiled me for just about anything else non graphical. Knowing what we all do about the inner workings of our engines and what temps and pressures to expect we can get volumes of information off of a graphical engine monitor like the one displayed on the GRT engine page in a single scan. Here a picture is truly worth a thousand words. Green is good, CHTs, EGTs, oil pressure, fuel pressure, you can see trends and react well before it?s too late. For me this is a must.

That being said, after reading these great posts, talking to fellow pilots, and sleeping on it, I have decided to add a single airspeed steam gage as that?s all I really need to fly the plane in VFR anyway. This way I can have my engine display front and center and fly the needle on the air speed gage for the first flight.

Once I?m happy with the performance of the engine, which BTW is not new or newly overhauled, I?ll work my way into using the AI display and even the EFIS moving map if I can ever take my eyes off of my 396 :D ( man that is one crisp display ).

- Jim
 
RVPilotDotCom said:
They can be a HUGE distraction if they go off for some inane reason ( like a gear warning on final when your not expecting it ).
- Jim
Click to expand...

Actually Jim, if you get a gear warning on final in your RV9, I'd be very afraid... VERY afraid. :)
 
I have a single screen and 20.5 hours. It would be cool (to me) to have two screens but I am now comfortable with the EIS giving me the engine info and the EFIS for other info. I occasionally go to the engine page on the EFIS but it is not essential. You can baby the engine nicely with the EIS once you get to know it. IF something catastrophic happens one screen does you about as much good as two. :) I have to go with Cam on this one. His answer (below) about sums up my opinion. Bottom line though is that you should go with what you think will work for you.


N916K said:
akarmy said:
...... I have 225 hours and just over a year with just an EIS4000 for engine instruments. During my first few flights I kind of wish I have the big color screan. Mainly because I wasn't sure where to set all the alarms so I was getting a few false alarms. Now I find that the EIS has more than enough info. I use three different screens on my EIS and turned all the rest off.

One question though, how many flight instruments do you really plan on looking at during your first flight? Do you really need an attitude indicator or a GPS for a local VFR flight?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
dual sport - dual users?

Going to be getting the dual GRT sport - wondering if the screens can be customized for different users, since we'll have two.
 
srv said:
Going to be getting the dual GRT sport - wondering if the screens can be customized for different users, since we'll have two.
Click to expand...

Interesting idea! Unofrtunately, I don't rememebr any menu options for that. No reason it couldn't be done in the software though - good suggestion to make to GRT!


Paul
 
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