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Cheap, Safe, Legal VFR Charts

petehowell

petehowell

Well Known Member
Hello!

I am getting ready to get the new Airchart WAC atlas. It has been a great way to get all the sectionals I need for a year of safe, legal XC RV trips.

Does anybody have any thing better at the same or better price point? ($109)
 
Pete, I've played with www.fltplan.org...

...for a 530 mile trip to Indiana and simply zoomed in 'til I could read that page and printed it....then move the map by dragging it print again. It took 6 sheets of 8 X 10 paper...FREE!...and it's current...you can do sectionals or low altitude charts.

Plus, you can get weather overlaid,

Then again, my iPad does even better:)

Best,
 
Thanks Pierre!

BTW, that was one dapper young guy in uniform you posted earlier!

I have done the same with runwayfinder (back in the day...) and it works great as a way to follow the trip on my lap - I even add text boxes with frequencies and notes to make it a one stop-shop for info.

I use this but keep the WAC atlas behind the seat in case I get checked. My guess it that this is one of those never ending battle questions, but are the downloaded and printed charts legal if you get checked?
 
petehowell said:
BTW, that was one dapper young guy in uniform you posted earlier!

I have done the same with runwayfinder (back in the day...) and it works great as a way to follow the trip on my lap - I even add text boxes with frequencies and notes to make it a one stop-shop for info.

I use this but keep the WAC atlas behind the seat in case I get checked. My guess it that this is one of those never ending battle questions, but are the downloaded and printed charts legal if you get checked?
Click to expand...


Pete, I don't think you are required to have "legal" charts for VFR flights, only whatever info is needed for the safe conclusion of the flight. Prudence may dictate a current set, however.
 
Hi Sam,

Yep - I guess prudence is what gets me to pony up for the chart book now that the Missus likes to travel far and wide in the RV......

Thanks for the replies guys!

Sam Buchanan said:
Pete, I don't think you are required to have "legal" charts for VFR flights, only whatever info is needed for the safe conclusion of the flight. Prudence may dictate a current set, however.
Click to expand...
 
Airchart Subscription

Pete,
For years I flew my 14 state sales territory using Airchart WACs, Low Altitude IFR charts, and insturment approaches. Always in the plane, always current, always in order, everything right there, nothing to forget. Sometimes the boss called and asked if I could run over to New York, Arkansas or Ohio to look at something, sure, no problem.
 
Hiya Dave

Pretty much my thoughts, too. I'll bring lunch in a bag for a few weeks to offset the cost and be happy all around.

Thanks for the input!

dlloyd3 said:
Pete,
For years I flew my 14 state sales territory using Airchart WACs, Low Altitude IFR charts, and insturment approaches. Always in the plane, always current, always in order, everything right there, nothing to forget. Sometimes the boss called and asked if I could run over to New York, Arkansas or Ohio to look at something, sure, no problem.
Click to expand...
 
If you are an EAA member you can use their version of Aeroplanner - it's also FREE.

It has the ability to print AAA-like trip-tik maps, which is probably better than printing random sections of charts of Flightplan.

For flying around your home area, the new EZFlightChart book is handy, and contains all of the terminal area charts that are in the area covered by the particular sectional.

https://www.ezflightchart.com/Phoenix_Sectional_and_TAC_p/phoenix_vfr.htm

Not so good if you want to draw a long straight line for a cross-country though...:)
 
petehowell said:
Hello!

I am getting ready to get the new Airchart WAC atlas. It has been a great way to get all the sectionals I need for a year of safe, legal XC RV trips.

Does anybody have any thing better at the same or better price point? ($109)
Click to expand...

The caveat with these Airchart atlases is the updates only come in long hand form with very vague descriptions of them. If, for example, class B airspace changes you will receive a description of the change in long-hand. Maybe legal, but IMHO not very helpful unless you're really good at visualizing trigonometry.
 
petehowell said:
Hello! I am getting ready to get the new Airchart WAC atlas. It has been a great way to get all the sectionals I need for a year of safe, legal XC RV trips. Does anybody have any thing better at the same or better price point? ($109)
Click to expand...

Assuming you have an iPad (or netbook of some kind).....

What I do:

1. Download all WAC charts (free) from HERE (sectionals also from HERE).
2. Copy them to my iPad and read them with Goodreader ($2.99).
3. Throw the iPad in my flight bag.



Note: I also copy them to my 16GB Swiss Army Knife/Memory Stick (more) in case I'm in front of a computer with a huge monitor and a free USB port.
 
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DeltaRomeo said:
Assuming you have an iPad.....

What I do:

1. Download all WAC charts (free) from HERE (sectionals also from HERE).
2. Copy them to my iPad and read them with Goodreader ($2.99).
3. Throw the iPad in my flight bag.
Click to expand...

Will this work on a Kindle or similar unit???

[ed. I'm not sure, Mike. It needs to read TIFF files (the format the WAC charts are in). dr]
 
Last edited by a moderator:
DeltaRomeo said:
Assuming you have an iPad (or netbook of some kind).....
1. Download all WAC charts (free) from HERE (sectionals also from HERE).
2. Copy them to my iPad and read them with Goodreader ($2.99).
3. Throw the iPad in my flight bag.
Click to expand...
I chose to save the $2.99... I convert them from TIFF to PNG, and then copy them to my iPad for viewing with a program called "Transit Maps", which is free.

I find that GoodReader can't pan/scroll/zoom anywhere near as fast as Transit Maps. No idea why Transit Maps is so much faster, but I think it pre-processes the images into tiles to speed things up.
 
I just used Adobe Photoshop (but I think any graphics program, ie FREE graphics program will work)

Converted the tiff image to png and it cut's the size in half (Miami South tiff 47 mb and the png file is 25mb)

I expect that's why Transit Maps (also free) works faster.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
How?

DeltaRomeo said:
Assuming you have an iPad (or netbook of some kind).....

What I do:

1. Download all WAC charts (free) from HERE (sectionals also from HERE).
2. Copy them to my iPad and read them with Goodreader ($2.99).
3. Throw the iPad in my flight bag.




Note: I also copy them to my 16GB Swiss Army Knife/Memory Stick (more) in case I'm in front of a computer with a huge monitor and a free USB port.
Click to expand...

DR,

I tried downloading the low IFR charts. My iPad won't download these files. Is there an app that will work?
 
Ron, the iPad itself won't download them, but if you download them to your desktop computer first, you can add them to GoodReader through iTunes. Adding to Transit Maps is a little more involved, but I feel the added speed of use is worth it.

Gary, I tried putting the same PNG image into GoodReader but the performance was still slow. TransitMaps processes the image for a while when you load it into the iPad, I think that processing is generating smaller tiles of the image that it loads and unloads dynamically as you scroll around. It takes more space on the iPad to do this, but the reward is faster zooming and panning. GoodReader does all of the panning and zooming live.
 
If you have an iPad....

Why not just pay the $20 for Skycharts and be done with it? Have a moving map to boot as long as you have the 3G model with gps or the wifi only model with an add-on Bluetooth gps unit.

Erich
 
Which GPS

Any suggestions for a bluetooth GPS that works with the iPad? I don't have an internal GPS in my iPad.
 
DeltaRomeo said:
Assuming you have an iPad (or netbook of some kind).....

What I do:

1. Download all WAC charts (free) from HERE (sectionals also from HERE).
2. Copy them to my iPad and read them with Goodreader ($2.99).
3. Throw the iPad in my flight bag.



Note: I also copy them to my 16GB Swiss Army Knife/Memory Stick (more) in case I'm in front of a computer with a huge monitor and a free USB port.
Click to expand...

IMO that is a LOT of trouble to go through when ForeFlight for the iPad is $75 a YEAR, and for that you can AUTOMATICALLY download sectionals for the entire country (and see your position on them as you fly), low and high enroute charts, the equivalent of all of the AFDs, check weather and fuel prices, etc.

For the same $75 you can run two copies (one for backup) on your iPad and iPhone (or iTouch) simultaneously.

To me the trouble of manually downloading the sectionals, transferring them to the iPad, making sure I had the right ones, then dealing with the slower scrolling issues would make $75 a bargain (not to mention getting the low enroutes and the AFD info.)
 
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Transit maps

How do I get the converted maps on my PC into the transit map app? It is not listed under the apps that allow file transfer.
I used photoshop elements to convert from tiff to png.
 
uk_figs said:
How do I get the converted maps on my PC into the transit map app? It is not listed under the apps that allow file transfer.
I used photoshop elements to convert from tiff to png.
Click to expand...
I just installed the Transit Maps app on my iPod Touch. Files can only be loaded into Transit Maps if they exist at a web URL. If the file you want is on your PC, the author expects you to set up a web server on your computer. This is a three-click job on a Mac (click System Preferences in the Dock, click Sharing, click the check box for Web Sharing), but I have no idea how to do that on Windows.
 
Not so fast Smokey...

Check the shipping charges. It's coming from Germany. I may have just saved your marriage.

Erich
 
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Marriage woes?

erich weaver said:
Not so fast Smokey...

Check the shipping charges. It's coming from Germany. I may have just saved your marriage.

Erich
Click to expand...

OK, so I only saved $15. That's over three gallons of avgas! I can go fly. Or, better yet, maybe I should take the little woman out for breakfast. I hear my marriage is in trouble. :confused:
 
Kevin Horton said:
I just installed the Transit Maps app on my iPod Touch. Files can only be loaded into Transit Maps if they exist at a web URL. If the file you want is on your PC, the author expects you to set up a web server on your computer. This is a three-click job on a Mac (click System Preferences in the Dock, click Sharing, click the check box for Web Sharing), but I have no idea how to do that on Windows.
Click to expand...
Under Linux it's next to trivial as well. For Windows, you can install a tiny web server that you can turn on and off for this purpose, there are a few free ones out there.

The iTunes App Store page for Transit Maps now says that version 2.1 added support for opening image files from "other apps such as mail." I haven't been able to figure out how to do that yet though.

A few months ago I contacted the author to see if he could add support for TIFF files natively, so you wouldn't have to convert them. He responded that he hadn't considered it, but would look into it. I suggested that being able to read a TIFF from within a ZIP file might be handy too, given how the FAA distributes the maps, but that would be a more significant programming task.
 
iPod Touch capacity

Kevin Horton said:
I just installed the Transit Maps app on my iPod Touch. Files can only be loaded into Transit Maps if they exist at a web URL. If the file you want is on your PC, the author expects you to set up a web server on your computer. This is a three-click job on a Mac (click System Preferences in the Dock, click Sharing, click the check box for Web Sharing), but I have no idea how to do that on Windows.
Click to expand...

I just installed Transit Maps on my iPod Touch and downloaded the jpg version of the back of the TAC for Detroit (19,323 kb - smaller than TAC or Sectional). The application choked on it. It said it was probably too big but offered me the choice of "processing" it anyhow. It has been running (says "processing") about 20 minutes and I don't know/can't tell if it is stuck or working. I will update if/when I know.

If you want to try it yourself, here is a link.

My initial reaction to this is "buy SkyCharts Pro" - it runs very well on the iPod Touch 4G.
 
hevansrv7a said:

I just installed Transit Maps on my iPod Touch and downloaded the jpg version of the back of the TAC for Detroit (19,323 kb - smaller than TAC or Sectional). The application choked on it. It said it was probably too big but offered me the choice of "processing" it anyhow. It has been running (says "processing") about 20 minutes and I don't know/can't tell if it is stuck or working. I will update if/when I know.

If you want to try it yourself, here is a link.
Click to expand...
I tried the Detriot TAC from that link, and got the same message about the file maybe being too big. But, it processed it in less than 3 minutes, and it works fine. Maybe you've got a background app that is hogging memory. You might try rebooting the iPod Touch and then trying the import again.
 
While it's kind of neat to have all the charts on your iPod Touch, i'm not sure how realistic it is to bother. You wouldn't want to try and pan/zoom around them in flight, and even on the ground I find my iPhone4 to be too small a screen to bother with map applications more complex than google maps to find a street.

Every map i've put on the iPad has triggered the "this map may be too large" warning, but every one has processed in a minute or two and works perfectly.

I just wish there was an easier way to get images into Transit Maps. That's really the only downside for me.
 
iPod Touch / Transit Maps Update

I re-booted the device and tried again. It worked for me as it did for the others, error msg and all. That's good. Thanks for the info.

On the plus side, it's free. Sky Charts pro is $20/year.

On the minus side as compared to Sky Charts:
  1. When you zoom, it is fuzzy for a few seconds, then gets sharp. Sky Charts stays sharp.
  2. In order to have a full set of what you want, you have to do a bit of work. Sky Charts takes some time, but downloads all the charts for a region under a single selection. That includes the Facilities Directory.
  3. Depending upon your technical skill or the availability of a web server you can write to, it's thus not as convenient as Sky Charts.
  4. Sky Charts, even on the "Fly" chart, has TAFs and METARs you can tap on.
  5. Sky Charts somehow stitches it all together so you can switch charts without losing your geographic focus.
  6. Sky Charts is seamless when you leave one chart and enter another, keeping position.
  7. Sky Charts will draw a line on the chart where you tell it to and will do a quick time & fuel calculation based on your input.
  8. Sky Charts can use an external GPS, of which there are 2 available that are Apple approved.
  9. Sky Charts includes all the SIDs, STARs, Approaches, Taxi Diagrams, etc.
  10. Sky Charts is date-aware and will tell you every time you start it if the chart is up-to-date. DIY downloads do contain that information, though, if you care to look.
BTW - for smaller images and various document types, a very useful app is "Flash Drive" from Readdle ( I have no interest in it, just a user). It lets you move documents to the device over Wi-Fi, skipping the web server approach. It can also password protect the data. As with all iPod Touch apps, the app owns/contains the data.
 
I'm a believer!

hevansrv7a said:

On the plus side, it's free. Sky Charts pro is $20/year.

On the minus side as compared to Sky Charts:
  1. When you zoom, it is fuzzy for a few seconds, then gets sharp. Sky Charts stays sharp.
  2. In order to have a full set of what you want, you have to do a bit of work. Sky Charts takes some time, but downloads all the charts for a region under a single selection. That includes the Facilities Directory.
  3. Depending upon your technical skill or the availability of a web server you can write to, it's thus not as convenient as Sky Charts.
  4. Sky Charts, even on the "Fly" chart, has TAFs and METARs you can tap on.
  5. Sky Charts somehow stitches it all together so you can switch charts without losing your geographic focus.
  6. Sky Charts is seamless when you leave one chart and enter another, keeping position.
  7. Sky Charts will draw a line on the chart where you tell it to and will do a quick time & fuel calculation based on your input.
  8. Sky Charts can use an external GPS, of which there are 2 available that are Apple approved.
  9. Sky Charts includes all the SIDs, STARs, Approaches, Taxi Diagrams, etc.
  10. Sky Charts is date-aware and will tell you every time you start it if the chart is up-to-date. DIY downloads do contain that information, though, if you care to look.
.
Click to expand...

You know, there are some who will go to the ends of the Earth to get something for free. And I'll admit that I sometimes make the trip because of the challenge. But there are times when the benefits just don't outweigh the struggle and it becomes evident that a penny saved just isn't worth the trouble. I purchased Sky Charts Pro for my WiFi iPad and I have ordered an external "Apple approved" GPS with Bluetooth. The ten reasons quoted above are ample evidence that I feel I have made the right decision. All of this for just $19.95/year!
 
Furthermore.....

...my wife installed the Augusta Chronicle free app (Our newspaper). The paper costs .75c/day and $1.50 on Sundays....$300 a year now saved:)

Best,

BTW...how do you tap TAF's and Metars?
 
pierre smith said:
...
BTW...how do you tap TAF's and Metars?
Click to expand...

Pierre,

You can tap airfields along your route on the Sky Chart app and the current TAF and METAR will appear in a pop-up window. This assumes that you have internet conductivity at the time; otherwise the data will likely be out of date.
As there is no XM weather overlay in Sky Chart (yet), I will likely use my Garmin 496 for weather information.
 
Gents,
I have my downloadcharts tool getting all the terminal area charts now. Havent posted it up yet.
Wondering about the conversions for use.
There is a tool imagemack that allows for command line conversion in a variety of formats. I use this in other tools like coppermine. PDF is not one that works well. Ive tested png and tiff to png works fine and can resize to a workable level/size. TAC's are ~800mb in zip form.
My question is, is this useful to have a conversion to png and for what?
Tools gets all the sectionals, terminals, low, high and area charts. The terminal and sectionals are vectored tiffs. If you want Ill make it convert to png and post it up.
 
Thanks Ron...

ronschreck said:
Pierre,

.
.....As there is no XM weather overlay in Sky Chart (yet), I will likely use my Garmin 496 for weather information.
Click to expand...

I've seen Metars while I had it in my office where I have wifi but my iPad is not the GPS version, since I already have a 496 with wx and the 430W. 3 moving maps seemed like overkill:)

Best,
 
Possible confusion

pierre smith said:
I've seen Metars while I had it in my office where I have wifi but my iPad is not the GPS version, since I already have a 496 with wx and the 430W. 3 moving maps seemed like overkill:)

Best,
Click to expand...


The METAR/TAF feature does depend on Wi-Fi but it does not depend on GPS. Of course, if you have Wi-Fi, there are many excellent WX sources including DUAT or DUATS, which are "legal briefs".

You can move/zoom the chart's viewable area around on any iOS device (of which the iPad is one) manually. You can plan the flight (including WX) on the ground if you have Wi-Fi at the office. You can view the sectional in flight and follow your location manually just as you would with a paper chart only better.

I doubt that the data connection will work in the air, anyhow, unless you are below 1,000 AGL. And even then, you would need a "mobile hot-spot" and a data subscription that includes it.

While in the air (offline), the METAR/TAF feature of SkyCharts is still there, but the data does not refresh. It does say how old the information is.

I agree that if you are paying $55/month for the '496 WX you don't need more in flight. I dropped it as being nice, but way overpriced. YMMV.
 
pierre smith said:
I've seen Metars while I had it in my office where I have wifi but my iPad is not the GPS version, since I already have a 496 with wx and the 430W. 3 moving maps seemed like overkill:)

Best,
Click to expand...

Pierre,

How many low altitude IFR charts do you have on those other GPS's? For $19.95/year for Sky Charts Pro, I don't know any other way to get hi and low charts, approach plates, SIDs, STARs, sectionals and georeferenced polition on all the maps for that price. I'm sold!
 
I have to agree, Ron...

...in that it's the very best $20 I've ever spent!

I had planned to fly to California last December, in my -10 but weather and time constraints cancelled that. I already had loaded all the sectionals, low altitude enroute and approach charts in the iPad and was simply amazed at the value per dollar. Now, I also have the Drudge Report and the weather channel apps, Google maps and so on. Seems that it will amortize in one year or less. My wife became so attached to "our" iPad last year and couldn't stand to give it to me for a day flight, so she ended up buying me my personal iPad, for Christmas, that stays with me.

Best,
 
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ronschreck said:
You know, there are some who will go to the ends of the Earth to get something for free. And I'll admit that I sometimes make the trip because of the challenge. But there are times when the benefits just don't outweigh the struggle and it becomes evident that a penny saved just isn't worth the trouble. I purchased Sky Charts Pro for my WiFi iPad and I have ordered an external "Apple approved" GPS with Bluetooth. The ten reasons quoted above are ample evidence that I feel I have made the right decision. All of this for just $19.95/year!
Click to expand...
I'm not adverse to spending money... But I'm adverse to spending money on something that is already free. I'd pay $20 for Skycharts. I may even spend $40. But once I have the app, the data updates are all available from the FAA for free. Why do I have to pay a yearly fee to access something that is already available?

If Skycharts is re-hosting the data, I can understand a need to cover ongoing costs. But I'd prefer an app that makes use of existing data, without requiring that duplication of effort and hosting. When Skycharts rises to that challenge, i'll buy their program.
 
Snowflake said:
I'm not adverse to spending money... But I'm adverse to spending money on something that is already free. I'd pay $20 for Skycharts. I may even spend $40. But once I have the app, the data updates are all available from the FAA for free. Why do I have to pay a yearly fee to access something that is already available?

If Skycharts is re-hosting the data, I can understand a need to cover ongoing costs. But I'd prefer an app that makes use of existing data, without requiring that duplication of effort and hosting. When Skycharts rises to that challenge, i'll buy their program.
Click to expand...

Yes, we can get the charts for free. If that's all you want, go for it. What I like is the way the app puts all the charts together for a seamless chart that covers the entire country and uses GPS data to follow my flight progress along my flight plan line on the map. And I can switch from IFR route maps to VFR sectionals with a single button push. The approach plates are right there too. Essentially I am renting the technology to do all this stuff with the free maps provided by the FAA. If I had the know-how to do it on my own I'd save the twenty dollars. I don't so it's twenty dollars well spent IMHO. You may prefer to buy a few latte's at Starbucks instead. I don't drink coffee.
 
Heikki also has added....

....small, red circles to the restricted areas. When you tap the little circle, a notice pops up giving you the top and bottom of the airspace and dates and times they're active.

It just gets better,
 
petehowell said:
Hello!

I am getting ready to get the new Airchart WAC atlas. It has been a great way to get all the sectionals I need for a year of safe, legal XC RV trips.

Does anybody have any thing better at the same or better price point? ($109)
Click to expand...

Pete,
Ive got a beta version of a downloadcharts tool that will get you low, high, area, and now terminal charts to your local computer for use anyway you like.
Will also resize and convert the images as well. example: Terminal area charts show up as giant tiff files from the faa. Ill reduce em and save as .png for example and you can throw em all on your ipad.
Wanna give it a try?
I have a windows beta version now if you want to try it.
Linux and Mac coming soon.
Not geo referenced. Basically gets you an electronic flight bag of everything in the charts department.
Download plates tool has been working for over a year now with no complaints. Gets me all the plates to any device I want.
See ya
And thanks for the APRS stuff Pete. ALmost 30k packets sent. Pretty neat stuff.
PM me if you want to try the charts tool beta update.
 
Foreflight

I have download Foreflight for a Month free trial on my I phone. After playing with it I have a couple of questions that I hope can be answered. If I am happy with everything I will pick up an Ipad.

It seems you need an internet connection to get what you may need. As in Approach plates, if you do not open them with an internet connection you cannot view them. Once you have opened them, they saved and then you are ok. But what if you had to divert and you did not save the plate you need?? I must be missing something.

And same with the charts, you need internet to zoom in.

I am hoping that this is just the trial version doing this but I am not sure. The only thing I can see you have to save everything near your route manually before going. Is this true.

The other item is I cannot find the terminal charts. Maybe they are embeded in the charts but what about all the little instructions they have on the back.

The last item is GPS signal. Isn't the signal a combination of Cell towers and Gps to establish a position. If this is case there must be some heavy roaming charges while in use in the plane.

Thanks

Troy
 
SkyChartsPro is 19.99/year and solves all those issues. I dumped Foreflight in a nanosecond when Pierre told me about Skycharts.
 
Thanks Mike

Work is crazy right now - I drop you a message soon!

Kahuna said:
Pete,
Ive got a beta version of a downloadcharts tool that will get you low, high, area, and now terminal charts to your local computer for use anyway you like.
Will also resize and convert the images as well. example: Terminal area charts show up as giant tiff files from the faa. Ill reduce em and save as .png for example and you can throw em all on your ipad.
Wanna give it a try?
I have a windows beta version now if you want to try it.
Linux and Mac coming soon.
Not geo referenced. Basically gets you an electronic flight bag of everything in the charts department.
Download plates tool has been working for over a year now with no complaints. Gets me all the plates to any device I want.
See ya
And thanks for the APRS stuff Pete. ALmost 30k packets sent. Pretty neat stuff.
PM me if you want to try the charts tool beta update.
Click to expand...
 
IPAD For Troy

Troy,
I am a happy IPAD/Foreflight customer.

Even the base model IPAD is capable of containing the ENTIRE US charts. ie Sectionals, high and low charts, approach plates etc. Therefore what you do is download all the areas/charts you want by state. Similar in Canada I suppose. All of the data you need is then stored on the IPAD and internet connection is not required. If you divert the data you downloaded is there.

The WIFI plus 3g IPADS have a gps that does not require cell service and I have not had a problem with mine as others have suggested. For me the IPAD is my chart solution and backup to my backup gps. If it gets too hot it will shut down. Only happened to me once in Georgia since last August.

I do not think you will be disappointed but there is a new version IPAD coming in April which may be even better.
 
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