What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Tools and Tail

frazitl

Well Known Member
OK, time for some male nirvana.

I'm about to order my 7A Tail kit, and I need some feedback on squeezer selection. I'll be building a quickbuild with limited help. Has anyone used the Cleaveland Main Squeeze(r)? I'm trying to decide between that and the standby Avery 9400. I've seen lots of comments praising the pneumatic squeezer, but is it worth the money for a quickbuild?

Also, any comments on the best dimpling tool dies would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Terry
7A ordering tail
 
I have the main squeeze and think it's great. At a builder workshop I got to try both the Cleaveland and the Avery. After using the Main Squeeze first, I just laughed at how ridiculously hard the rivet was to set with the Avery--it was amazing the difference. That said, being halfway through the empennage, I can see where a pnuematic would be great as it allows one hand operation, allowing the other to hold the part. $$$ though is always an issue--Main Squeeze is a good middle course.

Steve
 
Tools

You'll probably spend $2-$3,000 in tools and equipment in the next year or so. Some people swear by the pneumatic squeezer and, good for them. Is it necessary? No. Is it nice? yeah.

Of course one thing about building this plane is you're constantly faced with what's nice vs. what's necessary and, frankly, nobody can answer that question for you. They can only give you personal feedback.

I use the TATCO squeezer and it works fine. $100. Since then I've read how ridiculously hard it is to set 1/8 rivets. I've never found that to be the case, personally, so...off I go, trying to save a buck here and there and buying the tools I think I need and -- when the time is right and the money is around -- what is nice.

I finished the wings in November, the fuselage kit is due in a week and I'm just now getting around to buying a drill press and a band saw. Somehow up to now, a hack saw and a hand drill got me by. For all I know, I can continue with a hacksaw and hand drill, saving money for other things. But right now, that stuff has become "nice to have."

I see there's a new whizbang C-frame tool out that everybody raves about. I'm stuck with the old C-frame. Fine. It's paid for and it makes dimples too. But some people may want to spend 3 times what I paid to end up with dimples too.

In other words, everybody is differnet. We have different reasons for building, we enjoy it to different degrees, we have different incomes.

I'll tell you one thing: the coolest thing I've done so far is hand squeeze a rivet by hand on a cold night in a quiet garage. The thing actually sizzles when you do that. I love that. The thrill came cheap.

BC
 
I am very happy with the Avery hand squeezer. It uses the same yokes as a pneumatic squeezer, so if you buy it and later upgrade to a pneumatic you haven't wasted money on yokes. This is the same with the Main Squeeze as well, I just couldn't see spending the extra $200 or so on a manual squeezer. Everone has different priorities though.
 
tools and tail

A good place to buy used and reconditioned aircraft air tools is a company in Wichita Ks. called THE YARD. They give you good option to buying new tools.
 
Would definitely agree that everyone has their own preferences. When I thought about how many rivets I would have to squeeze, and tried both versions at a build class, I thought to myself "$125 for an Avery, $235 for a Cleaveland, or $4-500 some for a pneumatic." Again, I went the middle of the road route knowing that I would be squeezing a lot of rivets but could not rationalize spending the dollars on the pneumatic. With the quickbuild, I guess pneumatic would definitely be a real (read "extravagant" :) ) luxury, the Main Squeeze a more modest luxury, the Avery a necessity.

One thing I will say to "convince" you :) to go with the Main Squeeze, is that a lot of times you will be squeezing at ackward angles. Can you do it (and do it accurately) with the amount of force you need to exert on the Avery? Absolutely. I just know for myself that if I have to exert the much greater force, the likelihood of messing up a rivet in an ackward location is greater--it's in these locations that I'd really like the pneumatic but the Main Squeeze is, in my opinion, much more manageable than anything that would require greater force. I think if I ever invest in building a second plane, however, I'll probaly rationalize the purchase of a pneumatic since I'll already have the rest of my tools.

Perhaps one place to save money if you buy a kit (although I'm sure others will vehemently disagree) is with the Sioux drill. I have it, and its great, but I've also tried (and seen others swear by) a Dotco drill from ATS that goes for about $90 (less than half the price of a Sioux). It has a great teasing trigger as well. If I did it again I'd save the drill money and put it toward the pnuematic.

Good luck with your decision(s)--there's a lot more ahead! :) In most cases, as one of the others mentioned above, you'll make do with whatever you have and won't realize you "need" anything else until you have an opportunity to try it. That's the real insidious part of this hobby!

Just some thoughts for you to ponder.

Steve
 
I have both the Avery hand squeezer, and a pneumatic squeezer. I bought a brand new set of tools from a fella that must have decided not to build after all. It had the pneumatic included, and I love it. However, many times I will use my hand squeezer. The nice thing is that the yokes do interchange from my hand squeezer to my pneumatic.

I think the pneumatic is nice to have, since I use it extensively for dimpling spars, and the edges of any sheet metal I can reach with it. It is so easy, quiet, painless, and does such a nice job. I don't know how I could live without it (although I know it is quiet possible since many people build enitre planes without one).

I am going slow-build on the entire plane, so that kind of put the pneumatic into perspective too. I will get my money's worth out of it for sure.

And someone mentioned drills? I bought a Husky air drill from the Home Depot for $49. It is small, light, has a variable speed trigger, and reverse. It is one helluva a deal for $49. To me, it looks and feels just as nice as a Sioux. And for $49, even though it has a lifetime gurantee, if it blows up? I can buy a lot of them, for the price of one Sioux drill! If you don't have a drill yet, check out this Husky at Home Depot! :cool:

Just my .02 cents. Thanks,
 
Thanks

Thanks for all the great input. Based on all your sage advice, I decided to get a rebuilt pneumatic squeezer from Yard Store for only a little more $$$ than the Main Squeeze from Cleavland.

BTW, it looks like a standard hammer type C frame dimpler can be modified pretty easily to "press" in the dimples based on the info in ttp://www.repucci.com/bill/. I'll try that with some modifications...

Hope this isn't an omen for the next 1000 decisions I'll be making, or I may end up with a $200,000 RV.

Thanks again,

Terry Frazier
 
frazitl said:
Thanks for all the great input. Based on all your sage advice, BTW, it looks like a standard hammer type C frame dimpler can be modified pretty easily to "press" in the dimples based on the info in ttp://www.repucci.com/bill/. I'll try that with some modifications...

Terry,

What did I say on my site? Oh, you don't believe everything you read on the web do you? ;)

You are correct, the C-Frame can accept the dimple dies and is the tool you want to use when dimpling holes in the middle of a skin. The question everyone debates is to use the male die on the top or bottom. My preference was to put it on top, hold it in place, and then hit the thing with one hard blow.

One note I need to add to my ?Things to Consider? page is that you want to build two small tables to go on either side of the C-Frame so the skins are held level when you dimple them. If the skins are allowed to tilt when dimpling the edge of the dies will crease them. Here is picture of the tables with an HS skin getting dimpled.

The two tables can be moved around with relation to the C-Frame. You can use one on just one side of the C-Frame, if you need. A U shaped table doesn?t have that advantage and can be a pain, IM(very)HO.
 
Back
Top