Metallic or not???

Help

I need to tap into the vast VAF database here, help me out guys and gals.

My wife and I had been planning on paint the 10 a basic off white background and a couple of metallic trim accents ---burgundy and dark gray---- on top of that, with thin metallic gold lines to separate the colors.

While talking to a buddy who is an accomplished aircraft painter, he recommended that I not use metallic paints, as they;

1. Cost a lot more

2. Require a clear coat. More time and $$$

3. Are almost impossible to do a repair that will not show.

Looking at non metallic colors, and while they will look nice, well, they just dont have the pizzaz that the metallics do.

Any of you paint gurus out there having experience with this, care to comment.

Dan, Painter John--??

BTW, looking at Jet Glo, and Acry Glo.

As usual, thanks in advance

1. Cost a lot more

yes, especially silver and purple.. wow

2. Require a clear coat. More time and $$$
don't regular paints require a clear coat too...I thought.

3. Are almost impossible to do a repair that will not show.
yes, but the metallic sure looks sweet. Although I have read you can sand metallic with 1500 wet sand

Mike S said:

Help

I need to tap into the vast VAF database here, help me out guys and gals.

My wife and I had been planning on paint the 10 a basic off white background and a couple of metallic trim accents ---burgundy and dark gray---- on top of that, with thin metallic gold lines to separate the colors.

While talking to a buddy who is an accomplished aircraft painter, he recommended that I not use metallic paints, as they;

1. Cost a lot more

2. Require a clear coat. More time and $$$

3. Are almost impossible to do a repair that will not show.

Looking at non metallic colors, and while they will look nice, well, they just dont have the pizzaz that the metallics do.

Any of you paint gurus out there having experience with this, care to comment.

Dan, Painter John--??

BTW, looking at Jet Glo, and Acry Glo.

As usual, thanks in advance

Click to expand...

1. Yes, they cost more.
2. Don't require a clear coat, but you cannot "color sand" any inperfections out or you will dull the metalic. If you clear coat over the metalic you can sand and polish the clear coat as long as you don't cut through to the metalic.
3. A good painter can do repairs. For most of us it means repainting the entire part/panel to make it look good.

FWIW: I painted my airplane silver metalic for a military scheme. It looks good, but don't look real close.

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Go for it

Hi Mike,

In the scheme of the project the metallic paint will probably cost you less than $100 over what a non metallic paint.

There are single stage metallics out there but they are much heavier than base clear. Again, in the overall scope of the project, little weight gain.

Yes they are a little harder to repair. Maybe avoid leading edge area's that take the biggest beating.

I say go for it and do it exactly as you want. No regrets.

They're also harder to shoot evenly. This can be a problem on large sections, but not a big deal for trim/accents. I say do it.

Metallics do cost more and need a clear coat (more weight/cost). I would not use a single stage metallic as they just don?t look as good.

Metallics can be repaired, just not as easy as a single stage. But don?t let that stop you. Look at all the metallic cars that are fixed every day. There are some good blending agents where it is possible to spot repair a metallic paint.

Any average painter should be able to lay down an even coat of paint. So metallic should be no issue. If they are, you need to find another painter.

All that being said, you should paint what you want. Hopefully you don?t need any repairs.

Also if the design allows, you could use a metallic vinyl. Just a thought.

Go fo it!

Metallic paint definitely looks great in bright sunlight

Mike:

Promise me you won't drool when you look at the following photo of the hood of a 55 Chev done in 2005 Ford Metallic maroon.



If you use metallic for those parts that are easily divisible such as wheel pants or wing tips, repairs are easy, and the accent color looks really good.

I am happy to share how we get metallic paints to lay down evenly. If an old man like me can do it, you can too.

Thanks

Folks, thanks for the input so far, seems to be in line with what I have learned from my neighbor.

Keep the comments comming, please.

Mike, will you paint it yourself or hire it done?

As for metallic base/clear trim over single stage....I've never tried it. I suspect the trick is blending/smoothing the tape mask edge. If you just mask, spray the base, let it flash, then spray the clear and pull the tape I would expect the tape edge to be thick and rough. Soooo, there's some technique required here. How about it, pro painters?

DanH said:

Mike, will you paint it yourself or hire it done?

Click to expand...

Paint it myself..............No way, painting is an art, not a skill.

Skills can be learned, but you need to be born an artist.

Metallic colors arent difficult to paint at all.. just take your time and have good lighting. You can get "modeling" or "tiger stripes" if you try to bury it in heavy coats. Single stage metallic paints like Emron and other can sag easily.

PainterJohn said:

Single stage metallic paints like Emron and other can sag easily.

Click to expand...

I really am intending to go with Jet Glo, and they dont appear to make a single stage metallic. Actually, the metallic is AcryGlo, but same company.

Any comment on the repair of metallics??

Thanks for the input. It is good that we have folks from industry here to share their hard learned knowledge.

Mike:
Paint it what looks good at 10000ft, 200MPH.

If showing is your purpose go for the good stuff. I believe all aircraft paint judging should be done at a minimum of 100 ft. We would get rid of a lot of paint expense and nonsense for us "amatuer builders"

The name "Vicious Cycle" on our RV-10 came partly from the paint job. We did it entirely in metallics (silver, Red, Black). It is amazing how great each of the pieces looked individually in the paint booth and how awful they sometimes looked when set next to each other as they would on the airplane. We found it really important to use the same number of coats, and to remember to spray the final coat in the same direction so the metallic chips layed down in the same manner. Otherwise, they reflect light differently and look to be different colors. so, there were lots of stripping, sanding and repainting going on.
But it can be done, and it looks really great, especially in the sun. For the record though, I don't think I would do metallics again as a complete paint job. I would stick to trim as I had in the past.

Vic

agough277 said:

Mike:
Paint it what looks good at 10000ft, 200MPH.

If showing is your purpose go for the good stuff. I believe all aircraft paint judging should be done at a minimum of 100 ft. We would get rid of a lot of paint expense and nonsense for us "amateur builders"

Click to expand...

Yep, no argument from me on that.

However, the finish stuff is in my wife's ballpark.

And, she likes the pizazz that metallics give to the look.

Vic, thanks, already got the same from Carol in a PM, we are only looking at using metallic for trim colors, basic white for the major portion.

Mike S said:

Help

I need to tap into the vast VAF database here, help me out guys and gals.

My wife and I had been planning on paint the 10 a basic off white background and a couple of metallic trim accents ---burgundy and dark gray---- on top of that, with thin metallic gold lines to separate the colors.

Click to expand...

Sounds like you need to push the boat right out and go pearl white with metallic accents then a clear over the lot.

It'd look lovely, honest!

FWIW, I'm going to use single-stage solids (and polish)

Mike,
Jetglo does not offer a metallics.. how ever thier AcryGlo line has very nice metallics.
They are a catalized base coat system, but can also be mixed as a single stage.

When using the AcryGlo system i prefer the base/clear set up, colors dry faster, then you can clear multiple areas of different colors at one time..
It is a bit slower than automotive base clear, but you have a longer window of adheasion with the Acryglo.. basically that means you can take your time with the stripe lay out.

Automotive base/clear has roughly a 4 hour window between base color application and top coat (clear) to achieve good adheasion between the layers.

Acryglo and other catalized base/clear systems give you up to 24 hours and even longer with some of the retarders offered in the different systems.

Single Stage - Yes

Go with painter john... I used SINGLE STAGE Acryglo in Titanuim Silver Metalic on top of WHITE BASE JetGlo base. It looks great and sprayed on real easy, but would not look good unless it was on a white base.

PainterJohn said:

AcryGlo line has very nice metallics.
They are a catalyzed base coat system, but can also be mixed as a single stage.

Click to expand...

24Golf said:

I used SINGLE STAGE Acryglo in Titanium Silver Metallic on top of WHITE BASE JetGlo base.

Click to expand...

Hmmmm I did look into the info on AcryGlo, and it says that it must be clear coated.

(I dont mean to be argumentative here, just want to understand)

Item 7, page 2 here

Can you direct me to where it says how to prepare it to be used single stage???

Sure do appreciate all the input, including the P.M.s I have received.

Thanks all.

Call Global...

I saw the same info, but after talking to Conor at Global Aerospace Coatings, I was assured that they could blend the metallic to be a single stage paint. I purchased all of my paint from GAC with very good personal service. The only negative was the shipping cost. His info is below:

Conor McGee
Global Aerospace Coatings
www.gacoatings.com
[email protected]
866.788.5715
918.835.2525
918.835.2530 FAX

they can put a different binder into the acryglo to make it single stage.

Painter John, thanks for the reply, that is good to know.

My wife has been playing with color designs using a program called "Model Airplane Color Design" -----so far only the free "test" version.

This is a bit hard to deal with, and does not make curves too well-------leaves us a bit curious if the actual program you have to pay for is gonna act the same, or did they downgrade the freebie??

Anybody use this program that can give a book report, or if there is something better for doing your own paint design, what do you folks use???

I got the same program to see if i could do the renderings that i do for my customers.. I didnt like it at all.
If you are going to do an extreemly basic design, it may work. but to actually lay out the design you created, you will still need a nice 2 dimensional scale rendering.

Although it was fun to play with.. I liked spinning it around really fast

metallic just doesn't seem to belong on an airplane... to me..anyway...

You can also blend your paint with a clear, as in mix the paint (metallic) and mix the clear then mix them together and shoot a blend of 50:50. This gives the metallics a "suspended" look and enables you to avoid some of the tigerstripe problems which arise when you shoot a pure metallic base with poor technique. The clear/base blend should only be applied over an initial coat or 2 of pure basecoat. This system works well, and that's a fact, but on the opinion side I agree with some of the above that I don't really like full metallics on airplanes as it just seems a bit flashy or ghetto or .....

Base is designed to be applied and allowed to dry.. then clear put on over it.
Yeah you can do that, but if some one has never done that before it can get very tricky.
the reducer and binders in the base colorant can really make the finish clear react strangely..

I dont suggest anyone try that, IF you go that route, be sure to make your last coat clear only!

Its better to get the pearls and flakes that are designed to go in the clear.

How to avoid tiger stripes

Having done several cars in metallic, here is how I was taught to avoid tiger stripes using metallic base coat clear coat. The system works and as soon as the weather cools off, we will paint the 6A wheel pants and wing tips in deep maroon metallic.

Coats 1 & 2 of the base are applied like all other paint with an appropriate overlap and in a medium wet coat. You can apply base coat layer #1 vertically with overlap and apply base coat layer #2 horizontally with overlap. Essentially, you stop painting when you achieve color holdout. The only purpose base has is to establish the color.

Allow for flash time. Between each coat use tack cloth to pick up the excess flakes else you will have too much build up at the end.

The final application of base metallic paint breaks all of the rules of applying paint. Instead of following one direction with overlap, you open the fan on the gun, increase the volume and material, hold the gun farther away from the panel, and in a random fashion spray the final coat of base. Your hand is going back and forth, left & rite, up and down, in an entirely random pattern. The panel will look completely different after the FOG coat is applied.

Tiger stripes are completely eliminated and matching is easy because you have established an entirely random layer. This also has the effect of placing a lot of metal on the surface which looks fantastic in bright sunlight.

Allow for flash time, tack, then apply clear.

Lest anyone doubt this works and lasts a lifetime, here is a snap shot of a Nomad tail fin which has to be the hardest spot on a 57 Chev to paint w/o sags because of all of the angles and curves.

This photo is 10 years old and the car looks as good as the day it was painted.