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Nason source?

alpinelakespilot2000

Well Known Member
I'm partway through my fuselage and almost through my first gallon of Variprime. I don't think I'll need a whole second gallon, and even a quart is pretty expensive stuff. Does anyone know what Nason product is supposedly the equivalent as VP 615/616? thanks.
 
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Answered my own question...

I talked to a autoparts store guy (Carquest) who agreed that it's really the same stuff. For anyone who's interested, the corresponding Nason # is 491-30 for the primer and #441-43 for the converter. Gallons cost about $70.37 on the primer (or 22.78 on a quart) and quarts of converter cost $13.28. Quite a bit less than what I paid for Variprime the first time around... I'll have to check how much less when I get home.
 
Steve in WA,

Two of my local auto paint dealers said the VariP and the Nason are not, repeat not, the same product. Do not mix any unused primer, nor converter/activator together.

Spraying Nason later today,
Steve in UT
 
Steve said:
Steve in WA,

Two of my local auto paint dealers said the VariP and the Nason are not, repeat not, the same product. Do not mix any unused primer, nor converter/activator together.

Spraying Nason later today,
Steve in UT

Thanks for clarifying. I'm sure you're right. I'm not sure what would happen if they were mixed, but when I wrote that they were basically the same thing, I meant only that the paint dealer said the Nason would serve the same purpose and be as effective as the Variprime. Sorry for the confusion.

Out of curiosity, have you used both? Do they "appear" to be the same once applied?
 
Hi Steve!

I stopped into my parts store earlier this week and asked about similarities. The guy said that he would n't be suprised if it WAS the same product, but personally I wouldn't mix them either. I would wait for a full cure before applying an alternate coat of either one over the other as well.

I am looking towards the Nason line for my interior and top coat as well.

Looks like Nason Ful-Thane 2K is an adequate product. What do you think?

:) CJ
 
CJ--I only know the Nason by the product numbers above. Is that the same as what you are referring to? Or is the Ful-thane 2K a top coat?

I think you are right about waiting for a full cure before overcoating. I'm going to have to re-spray some of my aftmost bulkheads becuase they get pretty banged up in the process of constructing the rear fuselage (especially for taildraggers), so a light overcoat is in order here. Beyond that, I'm assuming cured Nason skins on top of cured Variprimed bulkheads will be a non-issue? I've always wondered whether one primer against another is OK--I've done that with Variprime and SW GPB988 a number of times already.

BTW--you're still a bum for showing off your thoroughly prosealed fuel pick-ups! :D
 
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:D You like the pro seal job I did on those!?! I am guessin' they are okay.

The Ful-Thane is a top coat. I am going to experiment with it on my JEEP bumper for durability. Harsh environment, ferrous substrate and all.

Make sure you profile between primer coats! I think you will be fine. I plan on doing the exact same thing when the VariPrime runs out.

;) CJ
 
What color is the Nason primer? Most of the self etching primers I've used are a greenish color. I was thinking the Dupont Vari-prime was a tan color. I'm hoping the Nason is too.
Thanks
 
Primer color

The Variprime is a greenish brown while the Nason is more greenish much closer to the look of zinc chromate. Some obsevations after priming over the weekend using Nason:
- The Nason dries hard and smooth almost with an epoxy look unlike the Vari which has more of a rough flat appearance.
- I used 40 psi at the compressor. Nason is a bit thinner than Vari.
- Acetone easliy removes dried Nason.

Starting final assy of fwd fuse,
Steve
 
alpinelakespilot2000 said:
I talked to a autoparts store guy (Carquest) who agreed that it's really the same stuff. For anyone who's interested, the corresponding Nason # is 491-30 for the primer and #441-43 for the converter. Gallons cost about $70.37 on the primer (or 22.78 on a quart) and quarts of converter cost $13.28. Quite a bit less than what I paid for Variprime the first time around... I'll have to check how much less when I get home.

Hey Utah Steve...

Is the Nason primer you speak of the same product number as this?

:confused: CJ
 
I'll check when I get to the hangar this afternoon. My cost was just about half that of Variprime. $35 vs $65 for the combo.
Steve
 
My price for 1 gallon of VariPrime 615 S, another gallon of Converter and a gallon of Laquer Thinner was $144!

I guess I got a good deal!

:) CJ
 
Nason part numbers

CJ et all,

The numbers are:
491-17 etch primer
441-43 activator reducer

As I recall, the price for gallons, whether Nason or Variprime, was exactly 4 times that of quarts. Also, my 3 local paint dealers were within 2 cents of each other. Just like gas stations.

Steve
 
Which Nason should we be using? The descriptions for 491-17 and 491-30 are about the same except the 491-30 says it is chrome free. What does the chrome do and is it better for one type of metal than another. I'm aware of the health risks of the chrome and wonder if the 491-17 is just a safer product but with lower corrosion protection because of the omission of the chrome.

I tried to remove the Sherwin Williams P-60 with acetone and a rag and it was very difficult. If acetone removes the 491-17 easily even when dry I wonder if it is as good a product.

What brand of primer is the tan color I see in so many pictures?

Thanks :)
 
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rv9aviator said:
What brand of primer is the tan color I see in so many pictures?

Thanks :)
One of the primers it could be is Variprime--it's hard to tell from pictures taken in different lighting, but my Variprime appears a tannish-green. On some of my pictures it looks more tan, and on others more green.

That's a good question on the slight variation on the product numbers--is one just chrome free? Variprime does made the chrome-free variety--I think the number is Variprime 625 instead of 615--which I was told was aimed especially at the California market. The guy who sold me the Variprime said the 625 works good too, but he voted for the 615 for slightly better protection. I guess it's the chrome that gives the better protection.

All this said, I'm one of those who believe that the vast majority of us, myself included, are WAY overpriming our planes, so I would think either Nason product number would be sufficient for our purposes. I'm not a paint expert though. If you ask any dealers about the difference would you let me know what their answer is? Sometimes I find that I get different answers to questions like this just based on whether the dealer knows their stuff about any particular product.

Edit...
Jim--I just checked online--did you see this data sheet? It seems to confirm your suspicions:
http://www.performancecoatings.dupont.com/dpc/en/us/html/prodinfo/nason/cgprimers.pdf. However, notice that for the chrome-free version, you have to mix in 25% of lacquer thinner (with the primer and activator) for aluminum substrates. It doesn't appear that you have to do that with the chrome variety.

See also:
http://www.performancecoatings.dupont.com/dpc/en/us/html/prodinfo/nason/491-30.pdf
and
http://www.performancecoatings.dupont.com/dpc/en/us/html/prodinfo/nason/491-17.pdf
Notice that is says 491-17 or 491-30 should not be sanded at any time. Does that mean it doesn't need to be sanded before topcoat even if cured, or that you better topcoat right away before it cures? Another question to ask.

I'm starting to get that same "priming headache" I got when choosing what to use for primer last year! :confused:
 
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rv9aviator said:
If acetone removes the 491-17 easily even when dry...

What brand of primer is the tan color I see in so many pictures?

Thanks :)

Steve,

I caught this too and planned on doing my own experiment to confirm the adhesion characteristics of the product.

I am using VariPrime and it is the tan color you describe. Here is a pic:

P9030067.jpg


As far as sanding, I read that too. I ran it past the instructors at my school and we figure that the .5 mil coating would be comprimised as it it so thin if it were sanded. They say that when they have to coat the material after the curing process is complete, they lightly scuff with a scotchbrite pad to remove dust and provide a little profile. Then they vacuum and lightly wipe the surface with a tack cloth.

:) CJ
 
I think I'll just stay with the SW p-60 wash primer since I've already learned how to spray it with good results. It seems pretty bullet proof. If you mix it one part primer and 2 parts activator it sprays real nice. The color isn't bad if you spray lightly. You end up with a light greenish silvery look or greenish gold look depending on the lighting. I asked about OEM pricing on this product when I bought it and got a great price at around $80.00 a gallon including one gallon of activator. I guess it is about the same price as Nason when you figure you will need two gallons of activator if you mix it 1-2 like I did. It sprayed badly and looked blotchy when I mixed it like the directions said, (1-1). I did a test on the rudder and sprayed the Sherwin Williams P-60 first and then used PPG Epoxy primer next. The PPG adhered fine to the SW wash primer and seems to have stuck like concrete. It has been a year and everything looks good. PPG makes a wash primer too but it is very expensive.
 
CJ--

Like Jim, I may be having second thoughts (at least as of 1 minute ago) about the need to switch primers, because I really don't have much left to prime. I think I have enough Variprime left from that original gallon to get up through the aft fuselage (including the skins).

Now that I'm pretty much finished priming the aft section, I really don't want to prime any of the center section because I'll be spraying an interior paint coat in the baggage and cockpit areas. I'm thinking that I'll only spray center section parts that get riveted together now and wait to prime the rest of the interior (side skins, baggage skins, top of seat skins, top of floor skins, etc.) until just before I put the finish paint coat on--that way I don't have to sand or rough up anything in the center section before the top coat goes on.

Thus, since I really don't have that much priming left to do--just a few a few baggage and seat ribs, longerons, and a little bit of angle--I may just finish up with spray cans of SW GPB-988 for these few remaining parts. It really seems like I'm quickly approaching the stage where saving up parts for big priming jobs is more and more difficult. More often now, I would really prefer just to prime a few parts at a time and then rivet them on right away. In this case, maybe the 2-parts like Variprime and Nason will be more work (and maybe with more waste and more $$) than they are worth

Again, just my thoughs as of this moment.
 
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