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danweseman
01-16-2010, 01:49 PM
Hi Guys ive been seaching old rocket info for the last week. A few questions for you rocket pilots. These questions are about the HRII and the F1 sport wing. I like the RVs slow stall speed for engine out landing saftey. Is the 8-10 mph higer stall a major concern for any of you? The glide has been reported to be space shuttle like? Also ive read that it bleeds energy quickly when "G" is applied? can some of you give me your current thoughts on these matters. I want a basic day vfr rocket (lightweight) for yanking and banking , formation work with RVs and the daily "hairballs" i seem to find myself in with several 180hp CS prop -4s and my glassair freinds that live on my airpark?Dose the higher wing loading really kill the Rvs great low speed manuvering ability? what is the minimum airspeed you can still get 3 "Gs" on a light rocket? Thanks for any thoughts Dan

yak53
01-16-2010, 03:39 PM
Info From the MFG Web sites

HRII
Stall 55 cruise 230 @75% weight empty 1200 gross 2000 hp 250
HRIII
Stall 58 cruise 260 @75% weight empty 1080 gross 1800 hp 400
F1 sport wing (no longer available?)
Stall 54 cruise 230 @60% weight empty 1200 gross 2000 hp 250 to 300
F1 EVO I wing (no longer available?)
Stall 50 cruise 240 @75% weight empty 1300 gross 2100 hp 235 to 300
RV-4
Stall 48 cruise 201 @75% weight empty 900 gross 1500 hp 180

N395V
01-17-2010, 08:42 AM
From F1 Sport wing perspective.

The F1 in an engine out scenario will sink faster than an RV. It is heavier and the wing is shorter.

IT DOES NOT SINK LIKE THE SPACE SHUTTLE.

All planes when you G load them bleed energy quickly, relative to straight and level. Once again moreso in an F1 than an RV8. I found this useful in approach and landing as it allowed me to enter the pattern at speed decelerate and land quickly. I have found an RV8 takes more planning in slowing to approach speed but that may just be because I have fewer hour in an RV than an F1.

The F1 is very intolerant of lazy feet and uncordinated control inputs, improper use of the rudder will increase your sink rate in turns.

Engine out landings in an F1 are no more problematic than any other plane you just need to practice.

Flying formation with RVs and probably glassairs should not be an issue.

Don't know what the 3 G stall speed is in the F1 but I did enter a loop too slow once and stalled at the top while unloading but that was due to poor technique and not G loading. I expect you should be able to loop at RV speeds.

Remember ultralight pilots are often killed after engine failure with their 30 knot stall speeds. Survival after engine failure has more to do with pilot skill and prpeparedness than a particular stall speed. A little luck also helps.

Its all about energy management, preparedness, and knowing your plane.

B25Flyer
01-17-2010, 09:08 PM
I want a basic day vfr rocket (lightweight) for yanking and banking , formation work with RVs and the daily "hairballs" i seem to find myself in with several 180hp CS prop -4s and my glassair freinds that live on my airpark?Dose the higher wing loading really kill the Rvs great low speed manuvering ability? what is the minimum airspeed you can still get 3 "Gs" on a light rocket? Thanks for any thoughts Dan



For the rat racing you describe you want a sport wing.... For Day VFR, I believe, the stall speed of the sport wing is acceptable.... It does bleed G, but with the power available, it is not an issue... The EVO wing is fun to fly, but where it shines is as a high altitude cruiser...

But with all that said, for just having fun in an airplane, nothing, and I mean nothing, is better than a light RV-4 with a wood prop... They are the nicest and most fun airplane to fly of all. Better than the Rocket, Mustang, Corsair, Hellcat, you name it, nothing is more fun than the RV-4... It is a carefree airplane. Push the throttle to the stop and dont worry about it....

In the Rocket, you have to keep your eye on the speed all the time, if you leave the power up, you will be going way too fast really quick......

vfrazier
01-18-2010, 09:59 AM
Define "way too fast." ;)

I'll admit that if you leave the throttle all the way in, it does get really noisy... particularly the screeching sound that comes from my wallet. But as far as "too fast" ...not a problem!!!

The Rockets are great rides, as are all of the RVs!

B25Flyer
01-18-2010, 10:11 AM
Define "way too fast." ;)

I'll admit that if you leave the throttle all the way in, it does get really noisy... particularly the screeching sound that comes from my wallet. But as far as "too fast" ...not a problem!!!

The Rockets are great rides, as are all of the RVs!

Agreed, I should have qualified that by saying If you are doing acro in the Rocket, you have to keep an eye on the speed.....

Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal

smokyray
01-18-2010, 10:41 AM
Dan,

I live and have operated my Harmon Rocket out of my 1500' (usable) soft turf strip in Central FL for five years. I went out and practiced slow speed flight and minimum approach speed approaches into my strip. What I found surprised me as I could land and stop my HR2 in the same or less distance than my RV4. I normally fly final with a healthy descent rate, power on at 65 Knots IAS, touchdown at 58 GS regularly. I have found the HR2 will fly final 5 knots faster than my RV4 but stop in equal distance due to the braking action of the big Hartzell paddle out front and the frontal area drag of the Rocket in three point stance. I have used this same technique in CO and the ID backcountry on short unimproved strips. My only modifications are larger tires and higher clearance wheel pants.
As far as G loading and dog fighting, the Harmon Rocket will hold it's own at 2-3 G's with anything out there, especially if you like to fight in the vertical. For aerobatics, set 23 squared and you can breeze through the sportsman routine all day with no worries.

It is an outstanding STOL aircraft considering it's lineage :)

Smokey
HR2