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G3X Questions

the_other_dougreeves

Well Known Member
The economy and my personal circumstances have revived my interest in building full-time for a few months. As part of the planning, I've been looking at the advances in the EFIS market.

The G3X is an interesting product. I've been flying with a G696 for a few months and have been impressed with the user interface and the robustness of the unit, although it's not perfect. So, along with AFS, Dynon and GRT, Garmin is on the list for consideration. The integration seems to be a major plus.

So, I'm trying to figure out how the G3X works in detail. The documentation is good, but some questions remain:

* How does SL30 CDI data display on the HSI? Is there a softkey to turn it off and on?

* Is there any kind of integration / cross-checking between the SL30 data and GPS data, say, on an ILS?

* You configure the system as 1-screen or 2-screen by grounding certain pins on the displays. When you set it up as a 2-screen system, it looks like you loose the ability to display engine data across the top of the PFD or to display map data on the PFD - true?

* The GDU units are fairly thin. It looks like you could mount one for the back seater in a -8. All it really needs is power and a 2-wire CANBUS connection to the other GDUs. How would you configure the unit to act as a 1-screen PFD?

Thanks,
TODR
 
So, I'm trying to figure out how the G3X works in detail. The documentation is good, but some questions remain:

As with many things, the documentation lags a bit behind the capabilities... I can probably answer a few questions for you.

How does SL30 CDI data display on the HSI? Is there a softkey to turn it off and on?

Yes, there's a softkey on the PFD to cycle through the available navigation sources.

Is there any kind of integration / cross-checking between the SL30 data and GPS data, say, on an ILS?

For the most part, that's up to the pilot.

You configure the system as 1-screen or 2-screen by grounding certain pins on the displays. When you set it up as a 2-screen system, it looks like you loose the ability to display engine data across the top of the PFD or to display map data on the PFD - true?

That's currently the case. Engine and map data are on the MFD in a two-display system. If the MFD fails, the PFD reverts to its split-screen state.

The GDU units are fairly thin. It looks like you could mount one for the back seater in a -8. All it really needs is power and a 2-wire CANBUS connection to the other GDUs. How would you configure the unit to act as a 1-screen PFD?

You can actually have three displays at the same time, so you would just connect the pins on the third display for "PFD2".

mcb
 
As with many things, the documentation lags a bit behind the capabilities... I can probably answer a few questions for you.
....
You can actually have three displays at the same time, so you would just connect the pins on the third display for "PFD2".
Hmmm ... Lawrence, KS ... And you know a lot about the G3X ... Hmmm :)

Thanks for the answers. As for setting the back screen up as PFD2, would you be able to scroll through different screens on the bottom section like you would if it were set up as a single display, or would it be HSI all the time? Could you force it into reversionary mode (ground pin 25) and make it act like a single screen system, with the engine data strip, flight instruments on top and selectable pages on the bottom? It would seem like the later would be the ideal system for a back seater with only one screen.

TODR
 
EGT Display

Another question, as I read the documentation, it seems like there is no way to display EGT information on a single display system. The documentation also does not indicate any way to display EGT or CHT for multiple cylinders on a single display system.

How does one use the engine information on a single display system to properly lean and otherwise manage an engine?
 
Another question, as I read the documentation, it seems like there is no way to display EGT information on a single display system. The documentation also does not indicate any way to display EGT or CHT for multiple cylinders on a single display system.

How does one use the engine information on a single display system to properly lean and otherwise manage an engine?

At present, the G3X software does not yet support user configuration of engine inputs, nor does Garmin currently sell engine sensors, so at the moment the G3X system is being sold to end users for "no EIS" applications only. As for future developments, I expect any news will be delivered through the G3X site or G3X product page. :)

cheers,
mcb
 
G3X integration to 430W, SL30, etc

How does the G3X integrate into the other Garmin products? I see in the pilot's guide how it interfaces to the SL40, and I presume that the same is possible with the SL30 in terms of being able to load frequencies from waypoints or nearest airports.

If I connect a 430W to a G3X and input the flight plan into the 430W, do I get anything on the G3X other than a heading, or is the whole flight plan passed along?
 
If I connect a 430W to a G3X and input the flight plan into the 430W, do I get anything on the G3X other than a heading, or is the whole flight plan passed along?

With a 430/530, you see the flight plan waypoints from the 430/530 duplicated on the G3X moving map and elsewhere. The PFD HSI needles are driven by the 430. In terms of VOR/ILS, the PFD HSI can be driven either by the VLOC side of a 430/530, or by an SL30. The system supports connection to two "boxes", e.g. 430+430, 430+SL30, or I suppose even SL30+SL30 if for some reason you wanted to do that.

mcb
 
Slightly OT, but the SL30 is a very flexible radio - seems to "play nice" with just about everyone's EFIS, dual VOR RX, dual COMM RX .... I hope Garmin keeps the SL30/40 twins around for a while.

TODR
 
With a 430/530, you see the flight plan waypoints from the 430/530 duplicated on the G3X moving map and elsewhere. The PFD HSI needles are driven by the 430. In terms of VOR/ILS, the PFD HSI can be driven either by the VLOC side of a 430/530, or by an SL30. The system supports connection to two "boxes", e.g. 430+430, 430+SL30, or I suppose even SL30+SL30 if for some reason you wanted to do that.

mcb

Matt,

Another question if you will. You say the HSI part can be driven by the VLOC side of the 430/530 or an SL30. Can it be driven by the GPS side of the 430? I guess the question is more will the HSI needles, both lateral and vertical guidance, work when shooting a non-precision or WASS GPS approach? Thanks!

Jim Baker
RV-6
 
You say the HSI part can be driven by the VLOC side of the 430/530 or an SL30. Can it be driven by the GPS side of the 430? I guess the question is more will the HSI needles, both lateral and vertical guidance, work when shooting a non-precision or WASS GPS approach?

Yes indeed... in general, you see the same lateral/vertical guidance and annunciations as you would with, say, a G600/430W installation. I've had the opportunity to do many LPV approaches in a couple of different airplanes now, and it all works great. Man, I hope they get the updated manual on the website soon. :)

mcb
 
Man, I hope they get the updated manual on the website soon. :)

mcb

Why bother updating the manual when they've got you working an unpaid second job providing online support?! ;)

Are the geo-referenced approach plates that are coming for the 695/6 also coming to the G3X?
 
Yes indeed... in general, you see the same lateral/vertical guidance and annunciations as you would with, say, a G600/430W installation. I've had the opportunity to do many LPV approaches in a couple of different airplanes now, and it all works great. Man, I hope they get the updated manual on the website soon. :)

mcb

Gettin some RV-10 stick time are ya?!! You know, you can't keep that thing forever, right? :)

Go get your plane finished already!!!!

Cheers,
Stein
 
WHAT???

Why bother updating the manual when they've got you working an unpaid second job providing online support?! ;)

Are the geo-referenced approach plates that are coming for the 695/6 also coming to the G3X?

There are geo-referenced plates coming for the 696?????? That is a game changer. I haven't opted to keep the plate subscription up due to my personal preference for Jepps as opposed to NOS charts.

Where would a guy look to keep abreast of developments on the Garmin stuff? Is there a GarminsAirForce.net?
 
Hi Matt

I am finishing a RV10 and was leaning towards 2x 10 inch skyviews with engine sensors and ap, sl40, gtx330 and gpsmap 695 (or gdu370 with gps antena) and audiopanel 340 from garmin. Then I started reading a little more about g3x line and got a little confused. Can it drive ap servos? Is the ems capability available and working? What would be a decent setup considering a 20k budget for panel? What about the g500, how does it differ from g3x dual screen?

Thanks
 
I am finishing a RV10 and was leaning towards 2x 10 inch skyviews with engine sensors and ap, sl40, gtx330 and gpsmap 695 (or gdu370 with gps antena) and audiopanel 340 from garmin. Then I started reading a little more about g3x line and got a little confused. Can it drive ap servos? Is the ems capability available and working? What would be a decent setup considering a 20k budget for panel? What about the g500, how does it differ from g3x dual screen?

Lots of questions there... let's see how many I can answer. The G3X system does not drive autopilot servos directly, but it can send navigation data to either TruTrak or Trio autopilots. EIS (aka EMS) features are available now to LSA airframe manufacturers, and EIS support for experimental installations is under development. I can't say anything more at the moment, but keep looking for future announcements.

As for your other questions - I'm just an off-duty engineer, but since I see that you are in Brazil, I'd be happy to have the South American sales manager or one of your local dealers get in touch with you. Just send me a PM with your contact info if you'd like.

cheers,
mcb
 
Matt,
First thanks for providing us all this info even though that's not really your job--Garmin ought to be paying you a bonus nevertheless.

Now from striclty a end-user's perspective since very few are in the field have you flown any coupled approaches? We've heard and seen both GRT and AFS capabilites in this regard I was wondering if flying a coupled apporach with the G3X is just as effortless or does it require more button pushing?

Thanks!
 
Now from striclty a end-user's perspective since very few are in the field have you flown any coupled approaches? We've heard and seen both GRT and AFS capabilites in this regard I was wondering if flying a coupled apporach with the G3X is just as effortless or does it require more button pushing?

Well, this much I can say... I have had the opportunity to fly many coupled approaches with a GNS 430W and G3X system, and it's extremely easy to set up. Anything more detail than that will have to wait for now. :)

mcb
 
G3X and the 696

I have a 696 (love it) and am considering a G3X for my panel - man, there it seems like EFIS panels are coming out of the woodwork these days!

Can a 696 be connected to the G3X? If so, what connectivity is available? Instead of the whole G3X, can I just get the GDU370 and then tie it to my 696? Specifically, I'd like to use the XM feature of my 696 to provide weather to the other display, but have flight plan data updated on the 696 as a backup. I guess I could tie my 696 to my 430, or have the 430 drive both displays (if that's even possible).

Thanks in advance if you know the answers!
 
Can a 696 be connected to the G3X? If so, what connectivity is available? Instead of the whole G3X, can I just get the GDU370 and then tie it to my 696? Specifically, I'd like to use the XM feature of my 696 to provide weather to the other display, but have flight plan data updated on the 696 as a backup. I guess I could tie my 696 to my 430, or have the 430 drive both displays (if that's even possible).

You can't really interconnect a 696 (or any other portable) with the G3X system or any of its components, since they're not designed to work that way. And specifically, it is not possible to share weather data between multiple units.

If you just want a panel-mounted moving map display, you could buy a GDU 370 or GDU 375 and use it without the AHRS/ADC/EIS box... it's designed to work just fine this way. I suppose you could also tie both the GDU and the 696 to your 430, so flight plan changes made on the 430 would appear on both the GDU and 696.

Hope that helps.

mcb
 
Matt,

Your information's been very helpful. Thank you!!

If you don't mind, could you comment on how the G3X would work with a gps input from a 155XL along with the SL30 input?

Mike
 
...how the G3X would work with a gps input from a 155XL along with the SL30 input?

I'm not super familiar with the 155XL, but as long as it has a standard "Aviation" format RS-232 output (which I believe it does) then you will be able to see the flight plan and basic VFR CDI data on the G3X display(s). I'm not sure offhand if it has the correct ARINC 429 outputs to allow the G3X to display all the data required for IFR navigation, although I might be able to research it.

As for the SL30, you'd be able to display all the usual stuff on the G3X HSI... lateral/vertical deviation, bearing to station, and so forth. The G3X PFD's knob would be used to dial in the OBS setting.

Switching between two nav sources, as you've described, is done via a softkey on the G3X PFD. On the company website you can find the installation manual, at the back of which are schematics and instructions on how you'd configure things for a particular arrangement of external navigators.

Hope that helps.

mcb
 
Matt,

Thanks for your response. I checked my 155XL/300XL installation manual and the 155XL unit does have an ARINC 129 channel for both input and output. It also has a serial output that's identified as "aviation". A couple of the Garmin units that are listed as possible connections are the GPS195 and the Garmin GPS III.

In the G3X install manual, I saw where the SL30 would be connected and also the 400/500 series units. But, I couldn't see where a unit like the 155XL or 300X would be connected.

Mike
 
In the G3X install manual, I saw where the SL30 would be connected and also the 400/500 series units. But, I couldn't see where a unit like the 155XL or 300X would be connected.

Well, really only the 430/530 are officially supported, but I would think that the 155XL would work for basic VFR purposes. Not so much for IFR.

Of course, if I was spending the money for a 155XL and an SL30, I'd rather buy a single 430 instead. :)

good luck,
mcb
 
I appreciate your opinion. A 430 would be nice, but I'm just trying to use what I have which cost me about 1/2 the cost of a 430. Plus I get some nav redundancy by not having all of my eggs in one basket and the 155XL plays extremely well with my TruTrak autopilot.
 
Well, really only the 430/530 are officially supported, but I would think that the 155XL would work for basic VFR purposes. Not so much for IFR.

Of course, if I was spending the money for a 155XL and an SL30, I'd rather buy a single 430 instead. :)
I can totally understand why the information has to flow 1-way out of the 430 and can't flow in from the G3X since it's not IFR certified. However, the interface of the G3X is (in my mind, anyway) far superior to that of the 430. Having to enter your flight plans into the 430 seems like a big step backwards.

If you use the G3X + SL30, you don't get IFR GPS approaches, nor can you technically use the GPS to replace a DME - you just get a GS/LOC/VOR and a VFR GPS. In a way, that seems like a good trade off if you're not flying IFR much or don't need GPS approaches.

TODR
 
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I can totally understand why the information has to flow 1-way out of the 430 and can't flow in from the G3X since it's not IFR certified. However, the interface of the G3X is (in my mind, anyway) far superior to that of the 430. Having to enter your flight plans into the 430 seems like a big step backwards.

If you use the G3X + SL30, you don't get IFR GPS approaches, nor can you technically use the GPS to replace a DME - you just get a GS/LOC/VOR and a VFR GPS. In a way, that seems like a good trade off if you're not flying IFR much or don't need VFR approaches.

I think maybe you meant IFR approaches in your last sentence there...? But yes, I agree in general... if I had a GPS 155 that I wanted to connect to a G3X system to use for VFR only, I would leave the GPS 155 on the shelf and use the G3X's internal VFR GPS instead. Simpler and lighter that way! Then with the SL30 in the picture, you could still have all the normal VOR/ILS stuff that an SL30 lets you do.

mcb
 
I think maybe you meant IFR approaches in your last sentence there...? But yes, I agree in general... if I had a GPS 155 that I wanted to connect to a G3X system to use for VFR only, I would leave the GPS 155 on the shelf and use the G3X's internal VFR GPS instead. Simpler and lighter that way! Then with the SL30 in the picture, you could still have all the normal VOR/ILS stuff that an SL30 lets you do.

mcb
Oops, posting to VAF too late at night. That should be "if you don't need GPS approaches". These days it might be hard to imagine, but you can fly IFR without GPS! IMHO, GPS is great for (1) replacing DME, (2) GPS-only approaches and (3) using it to cross reference against other navaids.

My intended IFR use is to get through layers so one can fly VMC above rather than scud run. Spring in Eastern TX is a great example - it seems like most of April has been OVC 2000 at least half of the day, and it's a thin layer most of the time. Yes, both pilot and plane need to be able to fly the entire IFR flight plan in IMC, down to minimums on approach, but I don't plan to fly IFR in such conditions.

GPS is great, but IMHO, most all of the GPS NAV units have really poor human interfaces. The CNX80 / GNX480 had a pretty good interface, particularly for entering IFR flight plans, but that's dead. The 430/530's interface is really not good IMHO. The G3X and G1000 is better, but still not all that great. GPS also requires you to keep the databases current, not cheap.

So, IFR doesn't mean you must have GPS. Sure, it's great, but a NAV unit is SO easy to use! Combine that with the dual receiver function of the SL30 and a VFR GPS to add situational awareness and you've got a good combo.

TODR
 
G3X Trio servos

I have Trio servos mounted and am looking at Garmin's G3X. Will the Trio servos talk to the G3X? Or would I have to replace the trio servos for (what?)
I'm liking the fact that the G3X is now compatible with VP-X...nice.
 
I have Trio servos mounted and am looking at Garmin's G3X. Will the Trio servos talk to the G3X? Or would I have to replace the trio servos for (what?)
I'm liking the fact that the G3X is now compatible with VP-X...nice.

You basically have 2 choices...

1) If you wanted to keep the servos you'd need to get the Trio ProPilot controller and then it would interface with the G3X, however it's not nearly as integrated of an interface as the GXpilot. That being said, the Trio is still one heck of a good A/P and would work well.

2) Replace the servos with TruTrak servos and then you can take advantage of the tight integration between the G3X and the GXpilot.

Cheers,
Stein
 
So, IFR doesn't mean you must have GPS. Sure, it's great, but a NAV unit is SO easy to use! Combine that with the dual receiver function of the SL30 and a VFR GPS to add situational awareness and you've got a good combo.

TODR

I looked at going that route, but for a 155 or 250 and an SL30.... you may as well just buy a 430. You're about there anyway, at that point the added capability is almost free.
 
So, IFR doesn't mean you must have GPS. Sure, it's great, but a NAV unit is SO easy to use! Combine that with the dual receiver function of the SL30 and a VFR GPS to add situational awareness and you've got a good combo.

From a legal standpoint, you are 100% correct Doug. But....from a practical standpoint, the number of approaches that you can shoot without an IFR GPS or DME is rapidly decreasing. For example, there are six or seven approaches at College Station, and there is only ONE that we think that Louise can use with her "IFR, but no IFR GPS" airplane. If all you have is VHF Nav, you can make do, but not always go where you want to go. If you are building a system from scratch today, and you really want to fly IFR, the IFR GPS is practically required in today's real world....
 
G3X Trio Servos

I have Trio servos mounted and am looking at Garmin's G3X. Will the Trio servos talk to the G3X? Or would I have to replace the trio servos for (what?)
I'm liking the fact that the G3X is now compatible with VP-X...nice.

Autopilot servos do not connect directly to the G3X system - you will need an autopilot controller in addition to the servos. If you already have Trio servos, you can use the Trio controller of your choice. The G3X system outputs data over RS-232 and ARINC 429, which can be used to drive any TruTrak or Trio autopilot controller.

To get the extra level of integration that has recently been demonstrated in videos, you need the TruTrak GX Pilot controller, which is fully integrated with the G3X system. With the GX Pilot autopilot controller, autopilot control functions are done via soft keys on the PFD screen. The GX Pilot autopilot can alternately be controlled directly from its own controller as well. This system would require you to change to the TruTrak servos as well.
 
From a legal standpoint, you are 100% correct Doug. But....from a practical standpoint, the number of approaches that you can shoot without an IFR GPS or DME is rapidly decreasing. For example, there are six or seven approaches at College Station, and there is only ONE that we think that Louise can use with her "IFR, but no IFR GPS" airplane. If all you have is VHF Nav, you can make do, but not always go where you want to go. If you are building a system from scratch today, and you really want to fly IFR, the IFR GPS is practically required in today's real world....
Very true, IFR Approach GPS is the way to go. It just bugs me how difficult the G430 is to use compared to the G3X, and then there's the expense of the G430 itself, and the database updates .... Ideally the G3X would be able to do IFR approaches legally. But then it would cost twice as much....

When I come to power, I will make IFR GPS certification easier. And no more third-class medicals either :)

TODR
 
Sorceror integration?

What level of integration is there with the Sorceror autopilot? A lot has been said about the tight integration with the GX Pilot. However, I'm curious to what extent will I be able to control the Sorceror from the G3X?
 
What level of integration is there with the Sorceror autopilot? A lot has been said about the tight integration with the GX Pilot. However, I'm curious to what extent will I be able to control the Sorceror from the G3X?

We've recently added some extra capability in that department. Mainly three features.

-Setting the altimeter baro on the G3X system instantly sets the baro in the Sorcerer as well. There is no longer any need to go into the baro set menu in the Sorcerer itself.

-Press the new EXT button on the Sorcerer, with the EXT DG/HSI? option in the setup set to N, to control the Sorcerer laterally through the heading bug of the G3X.

-The altitude bug setting of the G3X is automatically copied into the Sorcerer. If using the altitude select mode of the Sorcerer, there is no need to set two "bugs". Simply set the bug on the PFD, when you press SEL on the Sorcerer you'll already have the altitude setting displayed, just press enter. The same works for VNAV as well. Also, if in transition to an altitude above you and you change the bug setting to further up on the PFD, the Sorcerer's target altitude will automatically readjust to the new setting. If you change the bug setting to an altitude below your current altitude, the Sorcerer will enter altitude hold mode.

Hope this helps!
 
Do you already have a Sorceror AP? If not, I can't see much reason to spend the extra since the G3X and GX Pilot can pretty much do everything the Sorceror can.

What level of integration is there with the Sorceror autopilot? A lot has been said about the tight integration with the GX Pilot. However, I'm curious to what extent will I be able to control the Sorceror from the G3X?
 
The pin out for the units has a power 1 and power 2

I am assuming power one is main (switched power) and power 2 is a keep alive circuit. Is this correct?
 
The pin out for the units has a power 1 and power 2

I am assuming power one is main (switched power) and power 2 is a keep alive circuit. Is this correct?

Nope - they are two internally dioded power feeds Milt - so you can connect them to two different busses for seamless power redundancy, or connect one to an Aux battery to keep the voltage sag on the main battery from graying out the unit during start. Very useful....

Paul
 
Thanks Paul,

I am now assuming it doesn't have/need a keep alive function.

I was an avionics tech in the Marine Corps in the 60s (vacuum tubes)
The terminology( on schematics/pinouts) has changed somewhat since then and has been somewhat confusing, to me, while wiring this marvelous piece of technology. As I approach completing installation I have been reading the user manual and am awed by the features and capabilities. Starting to get excited about flying it.:)
 
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Status of Features Questions

Does the G3X EIS feature set currently include a leaning function? I see no reference to this on the website. If not, is this likely to be an addition in the near future?

Secondly, is the output from the G3X Engine Sensor Kits compatible with the GRT EIS product? If so, can the data be managed so that EIS information can be displayed on both units at the same time (redundancy)?
 
Does the G3X EIS feature set currently include a leaning function? I see no reference to this on the website. If not, is this likely to be an addition in the near future?

Secondly, is the output from the G3X Engine Sensor Kits compatible with the GRT EIS product? If so, can the data be managed so that EIS information can be displayed on both units at the same time (redundancy)?

Yes, there is a lean assist mode... it does all the usual stuff you'd expect, such as identifying the first and last cylinder to peak, showing temperature difference above or below peak, and so on. See pages 79-82 of the G3X Pilot's Guide for more information and screenshots.

I don't really have a great answer on the second question, other than an educated guess that it might be more trouble than it's worth. In general, you'll probably have a tough time getting one set of engine probes to work with two different engine monitoring systems. For what it's worth, in my airplane I only have one redundant engine instrument: a red "low oil pressure" light!

mcb
 
For what it's worth, in my airplane I only have one redundant engine instrument: a red "low oil pressure" light!

mcb

That's my design and operational philosophy as well. If a Lycoming is running, and it has oil pressure, it is most likely going to keep running for the time it takes to get to an airport becasues of the rest of the systems failures....
 
That's my design and operational philosophy as well. If a Lycoming is running, and it has oil pressure, it is most likely going to keep running for the time it takes to get to an airport becasues of the rest of the systems failures....

I guess I spoke too soon... I also have my ears (loud sound = engine still running!) and nose (don't smell any smoke). ;)

mcb
 
Matt,

On page 6 of the G3X Pilot's Guide it states the following:

In a configuration which includes one or more external GPS navigators (i.e., GNS 400/500 Series), the G3X displays the selected external GPS Navigator?s flight plan and guidance information. When using an external GPS navigator with the G3X, changes to the active flight plan must be entered on the external GPS unit, and the following G3X functions are disabled:
? Direct-to Key (Section 1.4)
? OBS Mode activation from the G3X (i.e., the ?Set OBS and Hold? PFD menu option
is disabled) (Section 2.1)
? Vertical Navigation (Section 2.3)
? Flight plan waypoint addition, deletion, or change (Section 6.1)
? Flight Plan List (LIST) Page (Section 6.3)
? Approach selection (Active Flight Plan (ACTV) Page) (Section 6.6)


Let's say that I install a 2 screen G3X system and connect both a 430 and SL30. Based on the description above the G3X will use the GPS information from the 430 for navigation and flight planning purposes. But let's also say that sometimes I don't want this to happen. I may prefer to fly a VFR cross country flight using the G3X?s more user friendly flight planning inputs, or add a user defined waypoint along the way, or use the rubber band feature to conveniently alter the flight plan around weather.

So my question is: can the external navigator inputs be disabled at the pilot?s discretion to permit these excellent G3X's features to "come alive"? If so, how is this done? Thanks!!
 
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