Next question

Okay, Next question.
Well took my first flight lesson today and had a ball. Little intimidating but very exciting. I posted previously on the real cost of the RVs and my next question is the competence level to fly one of these. I was just assuming I would spend the next few/six months getting my private and sometime fall-06 order my kit. A year or so later ( I think I can put some serious time into it if I really am digging it), start flying my own RV. After my first flight and my instructors input about homebuilts in general ("around here, we call them widow makers"), I am really wondering if it is practical to think after a year or two of total flight time, will the average guy be competent enough to fly one of these beast. 200mph compared the 120mph trainers seems significant.

I guess my real question is: Is it reasonable to think I can learn to fly and build an RV that I can fly inside of 2 yrs. I am a very competent individual with an engineering degree (go hokies) with a ridiculous amount of hands on fabrication and design (even shooting/bucking rivots) experience both in electrical and mechanical. And I believe I can put a "well above average" time into the flight training, flight hours, and build time.

What say the gods about "widow makers" and time frames.

Many thanks,
Mike

I always heard a widow maker was a Bonanza.

I am building a 9-A 160 HP and have no doubt anyone with a pilots license and some transition training would be fine. The common statement about the 9 is it is too benign to make a good trainer. It is too easy to fly.

I have heard the 7 and 8 are no big deal with the proper transition training. I bet there are several folks out there that have flown RV's with no more than a 100 hours total time.

Go for it!

Oh M'gosh

Hard to believe there are still those "out there" that really don't have a clue.

Ya, look around......home builts are droppin all 'round us!
If I'm not mistaken....didn't home builts surpass certified aircraft in deliveries
vs completions?

Amazed!
Lorne.

Pretend you never heard that widow maker comment. It's pure b.s. I'll tell you what is a widow maker though and a big part of why I'm building. The complete unknown maintenence history of rented spam cans. I'm sure your CFI is perfectly qualified to teach you to fly, but a lot of instructors don't know diddly squat about airplane construction or engineering. Pilots get killed in homebuilts the same way they get killed in certified aircraft, by using poor judgement. There are a lot of exceptions, but most often planes don't kill pilots, pilots kill pilots.

Learn to fly

Mr. Mike.
After 2000+ hours I decided to fly TDs. Had 1 hour check ride in a Cub some 12 years prior, and after soloing after such a short time, my take on TDs was what's the big deal?
I checked out in a T craft. Same power as the Cub, but a little faster. It was, as a fighter pilot said after driving a single hole Pitts, a humiliating experience.
I mastered (I think) the Tcraft, and can "muscle" the little bird around any way I feel like it, but do I ever feel that I'm ever so good. I do not.
I also ,with the help of a friend and non instructor, learned to fly a small amphib. I can handle a TD, this is the same stuff. It also was a humiliating experience. I was never close to it, but close enough to have become a submarine.
Take your time and do it safely and smart. You don't have enough hours/experience to have learned it all. I'm checked out in only18 different AC, and each new one is another beginner's experience.
Do it safely.
T88
RV10 (That'll be a new one too)

Mike,

I would definitely ignore that comment about experimentals being widow makers. With proper training you can fly anything.

William Murrish
CFII

Learning to fly a different airplane shouldn't be too much to handle. The most important things to remember are:

1. Get a proper checkout with someone who knows the type of airplane.

I have a friend who just got finished fixing up a old Mooney. Unfortunitely, on the second flight, he porposed it and collapsed the nosewheel. Sickening as it is, the problem was preventable had he flown with a mooney savvy instructor.

2. After your initial checkout, flight several solo hours in the airplane before you take passengers.

Passengers are not only a distraction, but their presence can severely change your decision making process. If you do your own flyoff, that would probably suffice for those solo hours (assuming you went to the factory for the initial checkout).


All that said, the RV is an low-risk experiemental. It is not only one of the most proven designs on the market, but with the pre-punch kits there is less room for errors that can cause structural problems later. Compared to the old designs, built from plans, the RV's are probably comparable in safety to certified airplanes. One key point when you are building, is to get a good understanding of all the drawings and systems before you dive into them. As an A&P, I question the way some of the systems are set up in the plans, but that doesn't mean they don't work, they just aren't built in a way I am used to.

widowmakers

Mike,

I have a stock answer for the uninformed when they ask if I'm actually gonna fly an aircraft I built myself: I've been through a Cessna plant, and I do a lot better work than that.

You can too. Ignore those guys who think anything that actually responds to the controls is dicey, and that anything smaller than a KingAir is inherently death-defying.

Good luck.

Bill O'Brien

Mike,
Today is the two year anniversary of my first lesson. My RV-10 tail kit arrived two years and one month ago. Yes, I started building before I even started taking lessons and before I had even flown in an RV. I went full speed ahead on my lessons and I had my PPL in less than four months. I started working towards my Instrument rating by taking many trips in both a 172 and a Grumman Tiger. I still haven't finished my instrument training yet, but...soon. My first flight in an RV was in April, 2005 and I can tell you it is like nothing you have ever flown! The RV-10 is spacious, faster, takes-off and lands in shorter distances compared to the others (172, Tiger.) You feel the power and speed right off the bat! But, I think it's easier to fly than both the 172 and the Tiger. I also think it's better than a Cirrus because the take-off and landing distances. You can land an RV-10 at just about any airfield in the country.
Can you build the plane and get your PPL in two years? Yes...but you are going to have to work like a dog on the plane! I haven't counted the rivets but I bet there is close to 10,000! In regards to your earlier post you could build a extremely nice IFR plane for $110,000 to $120,000. You could go with a Blue Mountains EFIS/one and fairly nice used avionics and spend less than $30,000. The key to building is tapping the knowledge base of people who have experience. Take classes or get help from people who have built their own airplanes. Join EAA and AOPA.
Good Luck!

These were great responses and greatly appreciated. My brother who lives a couple hundred miles away is doing the same thing. Getting the private and wanting to build the rv. He saw his first rv8 yesterday and is more pumped than ever I think. Ahead we go.
Thanks all.

Mike,RVs are relatively easy to fly,I had no rv stick time only citabria time,the plane will not drop a wing in stall unless you really work on it.I know have 200 hrs on it since june and my freinds tell me that I fly it like its a part of me awsome planes that will make you a better pilot if you fly enough,good luck.

Tom

I'll take an RV over certified anyday

I started my RV8 after only two years of being a licensed pilot. With only about 120 hrs in spam cans, a five hour acro course in a CAP10 and five hours dual RV8 time, I was ready to go. It's been six years now of RV grins and I've never looked back. Haven't flown spam since '99. The RV airframe is tough, honest and does what you tell it to do. I can't think of a safer combination. I've heard of old Bonanzas being called "forked-tail doctor killers". It's the guy on the wheel/stick that kills himself and seldom any fault of the airplane.

You'll do fine with your training and knowing you have an RV underway will only make it all the more exciting.

Brian
RV8 N94BD
RV10 '51

VT-tuna said:

(go hokies)

Click to expand...

Seconded. Were you AOE or ME?

VT-tuna said:

Is it reasonable to think I can learn to fly and build an RV that I can fly inside of 2 yrs.

Click to expand...

What is the reason for the time constraint? Just wondering if it's necessary or advantageous to put that sort of schedule pressure on an aircraft project. Not that I advocate my own sluggish indecisiveness either.

Guys,

I think you all missed the real point of the "widow makers" comment. It has nothing to do with killing pilots, it has to do with making your wife feel like a widow. If you are married, then there's no way that that you can finish an RV in a year without making your wife a widow, unless you are lucky enough to get her to help you. This is why my slow build is taking so long, my wife refuses to let me make her a builder's widow; otherwise, I would be working in the garage every night.

As far as a finished RV making a wife a widow, I doubt that. After phase I, if I go down, she's going to be right there.

Cheers,
Tracy.

widow

My wife always commented to other wives...
At least I know where he is. Do you know where your husband is? Silence always followed.
I used to build and fly RC airplanes alot! Spent most of my time in the garage. Looking forward to building my RV someday.

Get crackin', Larry! My RV4 is just a little bigger than an RC airplane.

After seeing how many rivets are in my plane compared to my father-in-law's 182, I'm not particularly concerned about it (or any RV) falling out of the sky for structural reasons.

Still, although the CFI mentioned above was WAY over-generalizing, the small kernal of truth is that a lot of homebuilts have issues (most fuel related) during their test phase. Once out of the test phase, however, I think all the statistics I've seen say they have the same safety record so long as you exclude the "show-off" accidents related to pilots doing fly-bys and pulliing up and stalling their high perfomance homebuilts. From my casual perusal of the accident database, RV's, Glasairs, Lancairs tend to be more prone to some of these type of accidents than, perhaps, the typical 172 or 172-pilot would likely be. For obvious reasons! (And to think, I had to get a "high performance" endorsement to fly the 182!)

Thus, the lesson I've drawn is to inspect and fly especially carefully during the first 25-40 hours. Thereafter, avoid the natural strong desire to show off how steep your RV can climb out.