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KSGS - no more first flights?

ChiefPilot

ChiefPilot

Well Known Member
I watched an RV-10 doing its taxi tests today during a quick break from my -6A project, and the next door neighbor came over to chat. He made the comment that he knew the -10 builder, and that that particular airplane would be the last experimental allowed to make its first flight out of KSGS / Fleming Field. This is somewhat troubling to me, since I just moved my project to the hanger this past June and am fixing to put the wings on. The -7 project a friend is also building in the hanger is a little further along; if true, it would seem that we are building ships in bottles.

I'm going to call the FSDO tommorow to try to find out one way or the other, but wanted to check first to see if anyone here had heard anything.

Thanks!
 
Airports surrounded by congested areas with no safe route into or out of may be restricted for phase I operations. We have one such airport in the Dallas area. Addison airport.
No first flights are allowed out of Addison.
Ref FAA Order 8130.2F
 
Mel, do you know who is the "ruling authority" for this restriction? The FAA, FBO, or City?
 
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I understand that Sacramento Exec has a similar limitation. You can depart on your first flight but must land and base yourself somewhere else to continue your phase one testing.
 
There is no "hard line" definition to the term congested area. It is the decision of the Airworthiness Inspector. In my case, before I denied a first flight out of Addison, I had a meeting with several inspectors at the Dallas FSDO to make sure that everyone was in agreement.
The ruling authority is the FAA. A city or FBO may have an objection, but they must take that objection to the FAA for an authoritative ruling. I'm not sure if the City or FBO can make such restrictions. I would guess not.
 
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Thanks Mel, sorry to put into the position of answering a question I already knew the answer to.

Actually, I was hoping you had been given something from FAA that finally defines the term.

As it now stands, the definition is strictly subjective, which makes it almost impossible to argue against effectively.

We (EAA chap 512) have been trying to address this issue here for about 6 months or more, our EAA chap prez even met with EAA, and FAA officials at OSH to discuss this.

So far, the feds are playing a hard line "we said no, and that is it" position.
 
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Mel said:
I'm not sure if the City or FBO can make such restrictions. I would guess not.
Click to expand...

If they take / use federal funds for improvements to the airport the city / FBO gives up a certain amount of authority to the FAA.

Good info Mel. I did not know the FAA could "discriminate" among airports.

*******************

Brad, maybe you and the -7 builder could plead your case to the FSDO to get you guys included in the "last" of the 1st flights since you guys were building when the restrictions came about. This seems like a reasonable request to me, one sure to be denied! ;)

Send the FSDO branch manager an e-mail.

Good luck, keep us posted!
 
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Mel said:
Airports surrounded by congested areas with no safe route into or out of may be restricted for phase I operations. We have one such airport in the Dallas area. Addison airport.
No first flights are allowed out of Addison.
Ref FAA Order 8130.2F
Click to expand...

I get that, but to "throw the switch" without any communications - "surprise, you're stuck" - seems rather poor. I'm curious to find out from the FAA tommorow whether this is their overall policy or if it was just a DAR or two who refused to sign off first flights from here any more.

Is there list of such airports online anywhere?
 
Definition of "congested area"

In 1982 when the FAR part 103 rules came out they stated that ultralight vehicles may not be flown over congested areas. When pressed for a definition of "congested area", one FAA representative at Oshkosh stated, "If you fly over 5000 people and no one complains, it was not congested. If you fly over 2 people and one complains, it was congested."
 
Mel said:
In 1982 when the FAR part 103 rules came out they stated that ultralight vehicles may not be flown over congested areas. When pressed for a definition of "congested area", one FAA representative at Oshkosh stated, "If you fly over 5000 people and no one complains, it was not congested. If you fly over 2 people and one complains, it was congested."
Click to expand...

It is amazing how the FAA writes rules & regs so they can inturpt them anyway they want to. I love the FAA's motto;

"We're not happy until you're not happy."
 
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I believe the allowed flight test area is the FSDO's determination only. I contemplated assembling my plane at Crystal airport in the Twin Cities, which normally also does not allow "first flights". However, when I spoke with the FSDO, they were willing to grant a departure exemption, meaning I would have to take off for the first flight and not return there until the 40 hours was completed. I would guess that they will work with those assembling there at South St. Paul.
 
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