Which airport to live by in SoCal?

If you were single, ready to move to CA to buy a condo and plane, which airport would you want to be closest to? I've only been to San Diego and loved it so am interested in Montgomery. Chino (east of LA) seems like it has a great location as well. Any suggestions? I'm eager to setup some real estate appointments and start the hunt. Thanks.

Being single, is aviation your only pursuit? Walt T might chime in, but I'd be tempted to get the hangar/ tie-down at Torrence, then live in the Beach Cities (Redondo, Hermossa). Great beach, great scenery, and decent air. Kind of depends on what you'll be doing for work as well.

Santa Paula, hands down can't beat it.

Thanks Jim, I'll take a look at that area. Here in the midwest when I think of flying out of the LA area I worry about all the controlled airspace and smog. Probably just ignorance on my part though.

It depends on your priorities. Choose between the following:

1. Length of time you're willing to drive to get to work
2. Air quality, heat and smog
3. Real estate prices
4. Distance from airport
5. Type of neighborhood (urban, suburbia, beach community, desert, etc.)

For example, Chino and Cable, east of LA, are great airports with lots of RV activity. Real estate prices are somewhat less expensive in this area than some other parts of the LA basin, but the weather is hotter and the air quality is worse than being closer to the ocean. You'll also have a pretty long commute if you have to drive to downtown LA, Orange County or the South Bay for work.

I agree with Mark.....Cable in upland is a winner. Cheaper place to live, lots of Rv'ers, you are clear of all the LA Bravo/Charlie airspace and you miss most of the beach fog, low stratus that coastal airports fight. From Cable, Big Bear lake is only 20 min in an RV...best fly out Sunday breakfast ever... Love living in Houston now...but miss Cable airport everyday!

Well... that all depends...

Wow... this sounds like one of those questions... if you could live anywhere...?

Seriously - unless you are independently wealthy... there is a whole lot more to it than buying a condo and living next to an airport. RV9Builder alluded to some of those considerations. Are you retired or do you need to drive to work every day? But then again.... if you are retired, or independently wealthy... you'd probably be smart enough to NOT pick the LA/"inland empire" basin what so ever! (and I live in SoCal). Living in the populated areas anywhere between Los Angeles and the Riverside/San Bernardino area gets you traffic, smog, high cost of living, traffic, long commute times, traffic...

If you are a city dude... then Jim P's idea isn't bad... but if money wasn't an issue... I'd lean more south towards Orange County. Or, go north of the city... Santa Paula is a wonderful little airport... and you are near Ventura. Personally... if you are City intentioned... I don't think that San Diego can be beat for quality of life... and so many other activities and attractions available, in addition to flying. But, having an airport in close proximity to your domicile could be an issue there.

So... not asking you to disclose... but without more info on what you are really looking for... and where you would work to pay for the condo and airport activities like building an RV... not sure how helpful any of us can really be.

DJ

A Plug for Cable in Upland

This is totally a personal preference kind of question, obviously, but I found Cable to be a great little airport. I recently moved back to the midwest (work), but for three years I based out of Cable. It's a very friendly airport community, has an active and friendly homebuilding community, is outside of the alphabet airspace, usually has very nice weather not usually subject to the marine layer on the coast. The surrounding area is quite reasonable (for CA) in terms of housing prices, and much better today than when I bought (witness the struggle to sell my house!). It's pretty easy to get almost anywhere in SoCal from there either by plane or car. Lot's of easy day trips to Palm Springs, San Diego, High Desert, Santa Barbara, the Colorado river on the Arizona border, Las Vegas, etc.

If you do decide to check it out, my former partner is still looking for a new partner in our Grumman, and I would be happy to put you in contact with some of the great folks that are based there.

I really miss it!

rv9builder said:

It depends on your priorities. Choose between the following:

1. Length of time you're willing to drive to get to work
2. Air quality, heat and smog
3. Real estate prices
4. Distance from airport
5. Type of neighborhood (urban, suburbia, beach community, desert, etc.)

Click to expand...

These are excellent points and important things to consider. I have lived in LA my whole life and have spent the past 12 years in the beach cities. I was flying out of Torrance, but 5 years ago moved north a few miles to the People's Republic of Santa Monica (great city, bad city council). So having lived in the area for quite some time here is my take.

If aviation is your only pursuit and you want to have your plane in a hangar and spend a lot of time with "airplane" people Chino is probably your best bet. There are a lot of great guys there, and quite a few RV's. The downside is other than the airport, there isn't a lot else do to out there. Also is the weather,during the summer it is quite hot, 100 degrees plus. I'm not sure about the air quality, but having lived in the San Gabriel Valley for 20 years (near El Monte airport) the smog was really bad in the summer. I'm guessing Chino is similar.

If you want to do "city" stuff, go out to bars, restaurants, theatre, etc. then you can't go wrong in Santa Monica/West LA. It's a great place to live. The beaches are great, the city is a lot of fun, the weather is perfect and the smog is non-existent, the ocean breeze blows it all inland, (out towards places like Upland and Chino). The downside is the freeway traffic (the surface streets aren't to bad, but the 405 at rush hour is ****) and rent/home prices. It is very expensive to live out here. If you rent an apartment you're looking at about $2000/month. To buy a condo you're looking at spending at least $500,000. Also we don't have the airport community that you'll find at Chino, and it's next to impossible to get a hangar.

I'm in a flying club and we tie our planes down at SMO, it's a great airport. The LAX airspace can be intimidating, but once you've flown it a few times it's a non-issue. The view of the beach every time you take off is really amazing and there are a lot of interesting aircraft based at SMO. You'll see everything from Sky Arrows to RV's to GIV's taking off on any given day.

If you are planning on making a trip to the area to scope things out definitely let me know and we'll do some flying. I'll take you to some of the airports we've talked about so you can get a feel for what it's really like out here.

Good luck!

Montogmery Field, San Diego

If you want fresh air and great weather, not to mention a beautiful city then San Diego would treat you well.
There are several of us at MYF building RVs and some flying.

Lance
building RV7

Thanks for all the insights here, this is very helpful. And jtrusso, thanks a million for your offer, I'll definitely take you up on that! I'll send a private message and see if we can work out a good time and such.

I've got a trip booked from Wed, 9/10 until Sunday, 9/14, to visit realtors in:

Santa Paula - Wed afternoon
Santa Monica - Thr morning
Torrance - Thr afternoon
Cable - Fri morning
Chino - Fri afternoon
Montgomery in San Diego - Sat afternoon

rv9builder had some great questions so maybe these answers can help add/remove airports from the list:

1. Length of time you're willing to drive to get to work
Maybe 1 hour but this is complicated by the fact that I'm a traveling IT consultant and if I'm working 50 miles from home, will be in a hotel, Mon-Thr, near whatever business I'm working at. I currently live in Indianapolis and always work in Chicago, so every week I have a hotel and short commute to work except for Mondays and Thursdays when getting to/from Chicago. I'll probably be working in downtown LA so Santa Paula, Cable, and Chino could be good locations. Montgomery too since I could fly up to LA Monday mornings and back home Thursday nights when the weather cooperates. I'm going to check with the LA offices next week to see where most of the customers are located.

2. Air quality, heat and smog
I am concerned about smog but mostly because I don't know much about it. How does smog specifically affect the flying for those at Cable or Chino? In general, what's the effect of smog on VFR flying around SoCal?

3. Real estate prices
This will be my first home and I'm hoping to find a decent 2 bedroom condo at200K first. If I don't find anything I'll do another round at 300K. If I must, I'll do a 3rd round of searching at 400K. There are so many deals right now that I'm hopeful the 200K or 300K searches bear some fruit.

4. Distance from airport
It's got to be fairly close, 30 mins or less.

5. Type of neighborhood (urban, suburbia, beach community, desert, etc.)
If Chicago still had Meigs I would have bought a high-rise condo downtown years ago because I've been in suburbia all my life. Without Meigs the nearest GA airports are 1+ hours away between 7am-7pm, so that's a big reason why I'm looking elsewhere. But even though I like the idea of not living in suburbia, really anything will be okay so long as I'm 30 mins away from my home airport. I have no idea what a beach or desert community is like though...

Thanks again everyone, really appreciate all the help.

1. On a Monday morning during rush hour, any of the places you're looking at is going to be a nasty commute to downtown LA. Santa Monica would be the shortest because it is closer to downtown than the others. Torrance would be the next easiest commute. Cable, Chino and Santa Paula are probably going to be a least an hour during rush hour, but you should talk to someone who goes to downtown on a regular basis to get an accurate length of time from each location.

2. As a general rule, smog is less near the beach and the temperature is cooler than it is inland. Most people like that, so prices are higher. However, beach area airports often have a marine layer that hangs at about 800 to 1,200 feet above the ground, so it limits VFR flight until it burns off later in the day. Inland areas are more affected by smog. Visibility on the ground is often at about 3 miles. The good news is you can be on top of the smog at about 1,000 to 3,000 feet agl. I've noticed that many times Cable is VFR when other area airports are still under the marine layer. As you move toward the desert, you can have clear VFR almost every day.

2. As a general rule, the closer you get to the beach, the higher the prices, and the more you move inland, the more you get for your money. However, there are plenty of exceptions to this rule, so it helps to work with a real esate agent who knows the local area. An agent who knows Chino and Upland (Cable) is not likely to know much about Torrance or Santa Monica. Southern California is huge, with millions of people living here.

3. It's hard to know what real estate prices are these days. So. Cal has been hit hard by the subprime mess, so real estate values have dropped significantly over the past year. I think you should be able to find a good deal.

4. This should be possible at any of the areas you mention, but my guess is that you'll end up near Cable, Corona, Fullerton or Chino.

5. Plan on living in suburbia if you want to be close to an airport. There's nothing like Meigs in So. Cal.

Let us know where you end up, and welcome to So. Cal!

Smog and Such

Dparson (sorry, don't know your name)

I moved from central Indiana to San Dimas (which I grew to love) for three years, and just moved back to central Indiana. I found that socal creates very strong feelings -- you either love it or hate it. I loved it and wouldn't have left except for a job opportunity I couldn't pass up.

San Dimas, Upland, and those towns are in what's called the San Gabriel valley, right up against the San Gabriel mountains. I really enjoyed all the places folks have mentioned here. Couldn't afford Santa Monica, though it seems to me to have the quintessential "southern California" feeling. My daughter and son-in-law lived in El Segundo so we spent a lot of time right on the coast. Santa Paula is a cool little place. Santa Barbara is just beautiful, but out of the way if you are going to work in LA.

It is hotter inland but the heat is not like what we're used to here in the midwest summers. It isn't humid. In my experience, the marine layer on the coast and the smog inland are sort of a wash. For flying purposes, I came to prefer the inland airports. You could almost always fly somewhere if you really wanted to. The smog didn't impress me as that big of deal, quite honestly. More of an issue was the turbulence that came from the wind blowing down over the mountains. But even that wasn't a big deterrent. When the Santa Ana winds blew down from the desert we didn't do much flying.

Doing anything in socal you have to learn the freeway patterns. During drive-time you just don't want to be going with the flow. A thirty minute drive without traffic can literally turn into 2 hours depending on where you're going. Upland (Cable) to downtown LA in the morning isn't a commute you'd want to make. BUT, there's another way. Depending on where you locate -- just a little farther east like San Dimas or Glendora -- you can jump on the train and shoot downtown easily. You'll still be ten minutes drive from the airport.

Again, I loved most all the places people have mentioned here for various reasons, but the nice thing about the airports inland was being pretty much out of the worst of the alphabet airspace. That was VERY intimidating when I first moved out there and started flying. But you get used to it. I did have a personal rule though. I wouldn't fly around the LA basin without GPS. At the coastal airports south of downtown LA you just learn to stay beneath and south of the class B -- and it is spectacularly beautiful to fly the coast down low from Oceanside up past Long Beach and such.

The other thing I enjoyed was the sheer volume of flying activity. There's just a lot more GA flying going on than I was used to here in the midwest. You run into homebuilders, and RVs in particular, almost anywhere you do, it seems like.

Any way you go, you're in for a treat.

David

You guys really have it made. All the landscapes and scenery, destinations, and pilot communities...very cool stuff. I'm looking forward to the move.

I just got back from my second house hunting trip and am narrowing down the location a bit, but as mentioned, SoCal is huge and there's a lot to choose from. I was surprised by the number of foreclosures and short sales though...in fact only 4 out of the 40 or so properties I've seen so far are not a FC or SS. Pretty much all were in really bad shape when the price was < 260K.

During the two trips I've had the opportunity to visit Camarillo, Van Nuys, Santa Monica, Cable, Chino; and in San Diego Montegomy and Gillespie. Taking inventory of these airports on different days I loved the feel at Camarillo and Chino. Camarillo's restaurant, the Waypoint, was busy every time I visited and was filled with people eager to strike up a conversation. When Santa Monica was cold and socked in with the marine layer, Camarillo was warm with blue skies and clear, so it seems like a great weather location as well. Chino had a lot of activity and I could definitely see myself becoming a hanger rat out there. It was great seeing all the activity along the hanger rows on the north side of the field. Activity like that just doesn't exist in Indy or Chicago. Lots of nearby dairy farms though so I better understand the concern about flies and the smell.

I'm leaning towards buying in a new community and there are some new townhouse communities near Cable, Chino, and Gillespie that are right up my alley. The one's near Cable are the least expensive (320K for a 3 bedroom) and largest, but I never saw much airport activity. The onfield restaurant was always empty and I think I saw maybe 2 cars by the hangers the 3 times I took inventory. Maybe I didn't stop by at good times but Cable didn't have all the activity I'm hoping for. Wish it did because the nearby townhomes were perfect and the location would be great for some of the short flights I'm envisioning: Camarillo, Vegas, and San Diego.

The townhomes near Chino aren't too bad either and there are a lot to choose from. Near the intersection of Butterfield and 71, in Chino Hills, there's a community named Celamonte where 380K buys a nice 2BR that's far enough from the dairy farms that the flies and smell are no longer a factor.

Skyranch, a new townhome community up the side of a hill near Gillespie had some spectacular views. 380K buys a nice 3BR there and again the high up mountain views outside the master bedroom and living room windows were great.

So anyway, there is a lot to choose from. Thanks all for pointing me in the right directions.

I'm Jealous! I grew up in Fullerton, and started flying at KFUL. The area is really awesome, and there are so many places a plane can get you to quickly. Big Bear, Catalina, all along the coast... Commuting by car was always annoying.

I wish you the best of luck!

Dave,

Sorry we weren't able to make it due to the marine layer last time you were out here. I was in the South Bay that afternoon and it never lifted there.

My offer still stands, next time you make it out let me know and we'll see if we can't make that flight.

I am based at Cable but live about right in the middle of Hawthone, Compton, and Torrance. It is a 50 mile drive to my hangar.

I could live like you say near CCB but the drive in TRAFFIC is very Very VEry VERy VERY BAD! Easier to drive where I want to play and not where I work.

If you want a tour of CCB, look me up. Saturday is the day that there are the most people there. It is not uncommon for 10 or so of us to get together for lunch OFF Airport. We are down to only 8 or 9 flying RVs. One RV-9A is in the process of moving to Las Vegas and one -4 just moved to Europe but the Rocket that is replacing it will be ready to fly soon. There are more than likely as many RVs under construction. CNO has twice as many.

Thanks all

jtrusso and I finally got a flight in...many thanks, it was awesome. After 5 weekend trips out to SoCal over a three month period I finally found a place as well. Thanks everyone for the input and suggesting places to check. I decided on a condo near Camarillo and have a feeling that it's going to be a great home airport. Will be closing December 22 and moving soon afterward. Now to get the plane...

http://picasaweb.google.com/dparson555/Camarillo#

Video of the flight:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bft4zKilrTk

My first video on YouTube, I feel like a movie star!

Dave next time you make it out look me up and we'll go again. Hopefully SoCal won't be in the grips of another fire storm!

Look North!

In your intial posting you just stated "CA" and went on to say that you had only visited San Diego (beautiful city, BTW). However, if you are not geograhically constrained by a job, have you considered ALL of California? If not you are missing out.
There are plenty of small airports up here that offer unfettered aviating and very friendly folks. I live about 45 mi east of Sacramento in the Sierra foothills. We have 7 RV's on our little airport (O70), and two more under construction. I can take off and fly in most any direction without fears of anyone's airspace and having to keep my head on a continuous swivel (not that I don't, but you get my drift). I am 1 hour from my front door to butt on chairlift in the winter, and 2 hr (driving) from San Francisco. No noise, traffic, smog, fog, etc.
Oh, did I mention available hangar space at rates that do not require a second mortgage?

Best Airport

Santa Paula, active flying community, nice folks small town, perfect temp's and we have an Irish pub 5 mins from the airport with Guiness on tap