Air Racing?

Hello group,

I looked for the proper forum to ask this and was unsure. Please forgive me if this one is inproper for this question.

My question is about air racing and "Experimental" aircraft. I have noticed that the war birds that race at Reno are registered as experimental while they we're clearly built for combat, not education or pleasure. Does anybody know how this came to be? Also, with our experimental airplanes we have to go back into flight testing for 5 hours? after a major repair or change such as an engine or propeller change. I've noticed at the air races that these war birds will blow an engine and run in the next race with a different engine. Does anybody know how they can do this without testing? How about when it is a Glassair, Lancair, Rocket, or other homebuilt? They couldn't do it if they were at their home airport, how can they get away with it at Reno? I'm not whining about this at all and the air races are a passion for me. I try to attend every year if able. It just seems odd that this happens with the strict rules that are placed on our "Experimental" airplanes. Are there any racers out there who have the inside scoop on this?

Just curious,
Bryan

I'm probably wrong on this...

But I believe that the unlimiteds are licensed as Experimental Exhibition and operate under a waiver for the duration of the races.

Reno Air Race Tickets

I have 4 box seat tickets for sale. They are for all 4 days and cost $275.00 each. They come with pit passes, VIP Parking and cooler service. Call me for info. You buy 1 or all. Sit with other Rv builders! This is the only way to do Reno. I also have 1 extra room reserved at the Reno Hilton available(not included with the box seat price, rate is $99 per night) Kevin @ 209-747-6460

Bryan Wood said:

Hello group,

I looked for the proper forum to ask this and was unsure. Please forgive me if this one is inproper for this question.

My question is about air racing and "Experimental" aircraft. I have noticed that the war birds that race at Reno are registered as experimental while they we're clearly built for combat, not education or pleasure. Does anybody know how this came to be? Also, with our experimental airplanes we have to go back into flight testing for 5 hours? after a major repair or change such as an engine or propeller change. I've noticed at the air races that these war birds will blow an engine and run in the next race with a different engine. Does anybody know how they can do this without testing? How about when it is a Glassair, Lancair, Rocket, or other homebuilt? They couldn't do it if they were at their home airport, how can they get away with it at Reno? I'm not whining about this at all and the air races are a passion for me. I try to attend every year if able. It just seems odd that this happens with the strict rules that are placed on our "Experimental" airplanes. Are there any racers out there who have the inside scoop on this?

Just curious,
Bryan

Click to expand...

There are many different types of Experimental certificates, each with its own set of restrictions.

FAR 21.191 Experimental certificates.

Experimental certificates are issued for the following purposes:

(a) Research and development. Testing new aircraft design concepts, new aircraft equipment, new aircraft installations, new aircraft operating techniques, or new uses for aircraft.

(b) Showing compliance with regulations. Conducting flight tests and other operations to show compliance with the airworthiness regulations including flights to show compliance for issuance of type and supplemental type certificates, flights to substantiate major design changes, and flights to show compliance with the function and reliability requirements of the regulations.

(c) Crew training. Training of the applicant's flight crews.

(d) Exhibition. Exhibiting the aircraft's flight capabilities, performance, or unusual characteristics at air shows, motion picture, television, and similar productions, and the maintenance of exhibition flight proficiency, including (for persons exhibiting aircraft) flying to and from such air shows and productions.

(e) Air racing. Participating in air races, including (for such participants) practicing for such air races and flying to and from racing events.

(f) Market surveys. Use of aircraft for purposes of conducting market surveys, sales demonstrations, and customer crew training only as provided in ?21.195.

(g) Operating amateur-built aircraft. Operating an aircraft the major portion of which has been fabricated and assembled by persons who undertook the construction project solely for their own education or recreation.

(h) Operating primary kit-built aircraft. Operating a primary category aircraft that meets the criteria of ?21.24(a)(1) that was assembled by a person from a kit manufactured by the holder of a production certificate for that kit, without the supervision and quality control of the production certificate holder under ?21.184(a).

(i) Operating light-sport aircraft.

The standard set of Operating Limitations for each type of experimental certificate are laid out in FAA Order 8130.2. For amateur-built aircraft, you have to go back into the flight test phase for 5 hours if you have made "a major change as described in ? 21.93". FAR 21.93 says:

"Classification of changes in type design.

(a) In addition to changes in type design specified in paragraph (b) of this section, changes in type design are classified as minor and major. A 'minor change' is one that has no appreciable effect on the weight, balance, structural strength, reliability, operational characteristics, or other characteristics affecting the airworthiness of the product. All other changes are 'major changes' (except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section)."

Note that they are discussing changes to the type design. If you install the same model engine or propeller after a failure, the type design has not changed, so you don't have to go back into the flight test phase. Of course, you know that new engines are probably more likely to fail than ones with a few hours on them (either because of errors made by the overhauler, or by the engine installer), so a prudent builder would probably not carry passengers, etc for a few hours after changing the engine.

FAA Order 8130.2 does not specify an equivalent operating limitation for aircraft registered in the Experiment - Air Racing category. But even if it did, a simple prop or engine change would not require a five hour test period, as long as the new prop or engine was the same model as the old one.

Thanks Kevin, I've wondered about that. It is pretty amazing how just about anything you ever want or need to know can usally be found on these groups.

Regards,

Bryan

We are special

Bryan Wood said:

Thanks Kevin amazing how just about anything you ever want or need to know can usually be found on these groups. Regards, Bryan

Click to expand...

It is amazing how much cool stuff Kevin knows.

Our RV's are part of the amateur built part of the experimental aircraft. Since dedicated war birds are never certified** to the FAR's, when they hit the surplus market they are stuck into the exhibition category usually. Sometimes they go into the research & development or crew training. The highly mod'ed ones are likely in the race category.

Some of the other experimental catagories can be very limited. Like the race category I guess allows you to only fly to and from races, race and local maintenance/training flights with no passengers.

Our amateur category is pretty generous in that we can fly anywhere (except over populated areas unless taking off or landing) any time, with passenger'(s) , as long as we meet the appropriate regs. We can't rent our RV's out or fly our RV's for hire (except for the training waiver). We (a CFI) can give crew training for hire in a RV for example with a waiver, for the purpose of pilot transition into type. We can do anything a normal or utility category plane can do, with the added advantage of owner maintenance. With the repairman's ticket (builder of +51% of aircraft) we can do inspections also. Those don't apply to the other categories.

Now for one of those WWII birds. They can have lots of restriction in crew qualifications, letter of authority to fly and special maintenance requirements and specific requirements for personal doing the work on them. As far as all the radical mods they do, I don't know but the race category likely gives them free hand to do just about anything. In the exhibition category they probably need to keep the major components fairly stock.

When Boeing flys a new model yet to be certified, it wears an "Experimental" over the door. It is in the development/compliance or marketing category.

G

**PS sometimes civilian planes are also military planes. Whether you can go form former military back to civilian is a good question, and I think the answer is Yes/no/may be/ sometimes. Also can you imagine a F-14 or B2 bomber meeting the FAR's?

zigerben said:

I have 4 box seat tickets for sale. They are for all 4 days and cost $275.00 each. They come with pit passes, VIP Parking and cooler service. Call me for info. You buy 1 or all. Sit with other Rv builders! This is the only way to do Reno. I also have 1 extra room reserved at the Reno Hilton available(not included with the box seat price, rate is $99 per night) Kevin @ 209-747-6460

Click to expand...

Can a Chapter 90 man get a cut rate? Just kidding.