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Runway Incursion at 52F Today

DeltaRomeo

doug reeves: unfluencer
Staff member
There was a runway incursion at my home airport (52F) a few hours ago. A Cherokee landed on top of a Stinson. Everyone involved walked away with no injuries. When landing runway 35 here, a pilot should be aware there is a row of trees that can conceal an aircraft at the run up area. It's very important when flying into 52F to be vigilant of possible aircraft there, especially high wing aircraft, and to use proper traffic pattern radio calls. Thank God nobody was injuried.
I took several images (link below) and will present more tomorrow.

At: www.VansAirForce.net

b,
dr
 
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I flew a Stinson 108-3, same as in photo, for 21 years.

I knew they were tough, but glad I never had to find out just how tough:eek:

Pretty stinkin' amazing---------
 
Video of apprach runway 35 52F

Showing how the trees really take up most of the view.

At the 6min 2sec mark in this clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjLwdxBij-g. If you'd been on the left back wheel pant of the Cherokee this would have been your view...of course, until you went through the Stinson's wing.

I think the solution to this blind spot will be another taxiway to turn on to the active about 200' up from the current run up area.

3' any direction and the outcome would have been VERY different.

Thanking the Big Guy upstairs again....
 
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Wow, with exception of FWF the cherokee looks undamaged. I'm shocked the two didn't flip/roll. Could have been very bad.
 
<<I think the solution to this blind spot will be another taxiway to turn on to the active about 200' up from the current run up area>>

Looked at the video and I'm kinda surprised at the treeline being that close. Obviously a displaced threshold, but....

Starting just a few years ago, airports in Alabama were required to own or permanently control all the land area under their Runway Protection Zones. Starting at the runway threshold, the usual layout is a 200 ft runway safety area (flat, ground level) followed by an RPZ (fan shaped, sloped floor). A typical RPZ for a runway like yours is 1200-1400 feet long and about 450 ft wide at the outer end. In other words, you gotta own 1400-1600 feet out from the threshold, 450 feet wide.

Best I know, the "own or control" rule was promulgated at the state level based on FAA standards. It stated a deadline for compliance. Non-compliance meant displacing the thresholds (obviously impractical if you only have 3000 feet of runway) or failing the next airport inspection for re-licensing. Long story made short; we had a few city fathers who wanted to turn the airport into an industrial park and they buried the notice from the state aeronautics department. When discovered, it took well over a year to turn the political tide and get the land purchased, even though (by sheer luck) the land at both ends was for sale. It was tough sledding all the way.

A quick look at AirNav says you're operating 52F with a 9-1 "NSTD APPROACH SLOPE". Prior to the above decree from aeronautics, a whole lot of airports here were operating with similar exceptions from standard. In a later meeting, the aeronautics director told us there would be no more exceptions; somebody somewhere had sued a state agency director personally for an exception granted by his department. BTW, this was when they recommending closing our other runway (grass) due to trees, and it was closed until we got them cut.

Point is, you're obviously operating with an exception, and the winds can change in government. If I had 600+ pilots based and the serious potential to take a major hit from the authorities, I'd be lobbying for land purchase, not a re-located runup apron.
 
Poor Stinson

I've seen and heard some amazing things on the internet aviation accident pages and from my herd of buddies that fly commercial jets. This one takes the cake though.

I just hate to see such a nice example of vintage aviation wrecked like that. I hope they get it fixed and fly again.

Glad everyone came out of it okay.

"Fortunately they didn't need to look for a black box, but there was a brown stain found at the scene." :eek:
 
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WOW! Talk about luck.
Those are classic images, Doug.
Never a dull moment in this business.
I wonder how the Cherokee pilot got down to the ground?
 
Did the T-Craft look for traffic before entering the runway? The landing A/C had the right of way. When you are at the hold bars, can you see the landing traffic? This is not a case of the Piper being able to see if there is an aircraft at the run-up area, it is a case of an aircraft being able to see if there is an aircaft on FINAL before TAKING THE ACTIVE RUNWAY. This is a sad thing to happen. But the fault lies with the.....well you know.

If this was a cow that wandered out on the runway, then we would have had an accident.
 
A number of years ago a similar incident occurred here at Sydneys Hoxton Park airstrip - A Pitts S2A landed on top of a Beechcraft Sundowner... Unfortunately the prop went into the Beechs cabin and caused fatal injuries :(

As amusing as those pics look - they are extremely lucky pilots!
 
Thank goodness everyone is ok

This makes me want to cry!!
Then again maybe they will part it out.
The owner is propably sick.
 
First, glad everyone is Ok.

My only question on this one is... no radios???

No idea if radios were used / present, but there is NORDO traffic at 52F. About 4-5 months ago, I was going to taxi across the active (required to get from the west taxiway to 35 and also requires 100ft of back taxi), checked the final, hadn't heard anyone, announced that I was crossing the active, turned on to the runway for the short back-taxi to the south.

I was met by the sight of a L-3 on a 1/2 mile final. I quickly added power and completed the 180 into the grass, waited for him to pass, checked again and went on my merry way, glad that the airplane and most of my wits were intact.

Needless to say, I'm more careful in checking the final at uncontrolled fields now.

TODR
 
Where are they?

First off, the people at 52F are definitely blessed. After seeing the sheared props all I can ask is; Where did the sheared off portions end up? I think Doug would have heard if someone on the ground had been hit by one of them. I'd be interested in learning where they are found. :eek:
 
Just saw Brandon (from GLO Custom) talking on the channel 4 news. Apparently he was one of the first to the scene.

No idea where the prop tips landed, but I bet that tear down will show some massive damage on the cranks!

Can't stress enough how big a deal it is to check the run up areas visually while you're on downwind. I am SOOOO glad these folks are physically OK.

b,
d
 
Made the NY News

Just saw a video on the NY news. It looked like it was shot from a news helicopter. The guys in the Stinson were real lucky.
 
After all, it is mating season

Perhaps they will have a little "Sinsokee". I think it will likely be a mid wing with aluminum over tube construction. Hopefully the mains will be attached to the fuse instead of the wing to save weight.

The little wheel will likely be in the rear since I suspect that tailwheel is the dominant gene.

I would not worry about replacing the prop at this point, because from the looks of things, we will likely see a cigar protruding from the Cherokee's cowling at some future point.
 
It even made the NZ news!!

Yep, saw the photo on the NZ news *hours* after the incident. Apparently the two pilots "refused to give way to each other". Gotta love the media, huh! :rolleyes:
 
WOW, this is big news, it even made it onto our local news here in Australia. Im just glad all are ok. Keep a good lookout !
 
Doug, several months ago you posted a video of a couple landings there at 52F (everyone was excited about that little motorcycle you were riding around on) and the idea of you posting a permanent camera came up. Wouldn't that have been great if we had rolling footage of the incident? Schucks.
 
Perhaps they will have a little "Sinsokee". ......The little wheel will likely be in the rear since I suspect that tailwheel is the dominant gene. .....

hopefully there were no young eyes to witness this public display of affection. This kind of thing usually happens in the back of a dark hangar.

The problem with these "mixed" relationships, you never know how it will turn out. Might look like this mutant:D...must be a reason it's called a quickie



Rutan_quickie_q2.jpg
 
Interesting post, Brian. When I first saw the picture of the Cherokee mounted on the Stinson, I began wondering what kind of pre-mating rituals they went through before this uh... "public display of affection".
Been watching too many NATURE programs, I guess. ;)

Anyway, back to reality, the outcome could have been so much worse. I'm really glad it wasn't. :) My condolences to all involved.

Joe
 
Any links to the local news or is it too "usual non-aviation-based-big news airplane ignorant" to bother with??

Doug states on the front page they were in radio contact with each other, news says they refused to give way to each other, confusion on the radio??? What on earth could have led to this if they were in any semblance of contact??
 
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