Turn Off Your Cell Phone In Flight

Okay, you might think this is a warning to turn off electrical devises during flight like the commercial boys want us to do, but you would be wrong.

When you fly CC the phone is hunting for cell towers and hense uses more battery power. If you need your phone at the end of the day and it would normally have power to spare you might be surprised to learn your phone is dead. Don't ask how I found this out. I even went so far as to replace the perfectly good battery.....twice before a buddy told me what was going on. Okay, so I'm a slow learner, but now I turn the phone off and I have plenty of battery left at the end of a CC day.

Obviously, if you plug your phone into the AC adapter your fine.

Just thought you would like to know.

Now arn't you glad you clicked on this very informative thread? Now you have something to talk about when hanger flying this weekend.

YEP!! Some things should just be left to local lore for others to find out by experience . This darn knowledge base we're building here... before long all the mystery will be gone. Thanks Doug.

I've heard that if you have a BlackBerry, you should turn off the radio before flying, in addition to turning the device off itself. I guess same would apply for any PDA/Smartphone which allows you to turn the radio off separately.

I usually do the above when riding on the airlines, but when just putting around locally I leave everything on. It's a product of my tendency to do mental FMEAs on everything (I'm a geek, I know ). I have this crazy thought that it would be terrible if i was in an accident and my phone was within reach, but my fingers were too mangled to be able to push the tiny buttons necessary to turn on my BlackBerry and then turn on it's radio. I just keep thinking how horrible it would be to have a mode of communication sitting right in front of me, but not be able to use it. Yeah, I know it's crazy.

I carry both a personal cell phone and a government Blackberry, and I am terrible about remembering to turn them off when I go flying! Sure enough, I have discovered the quick drain on battery power if the cell phone is in "search" mode - I usually remember to kill it when I am going to be flying all day. I've developed a "now worries" attitude about the cell phone (other than the battery drain) - but the Blackberry? Wow, that thing puts out some incredible interference in the audio frequencies! Anyone who has every heard one bleeding onto a telecon knows what I am talking about. When my BB starts to sync itself up (data), you can hear it chattering away on the intercom just the same. That usually reminds me to kill the transmitter until I land. I don't know why it's different than the cell phone, but it sure is!

Paul

Paul,

Is your BB one of the secure ones they issue to Fed law enforcement i.e., is it encrypted? That might have something to do with your interference. My non-government BB never caused my any problems that I now of.

My iphone is a serious intercom interruptus when it starts gettting smart.......or is that me being dumb in not turning it off so Kahuna couldn't call me, while I was airborne the other day, to ask a tax question

N941WR said:

Paul,

Is your BB one of the secure ones they issue to Fed law enforcement i.e., is it encrypted? .

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I can't tell you that, or I'd have to......

No, sorry - I can't tell you becasue I have no idea. They give me the device, I carry it, I use it - I try not to get too deep into it, as it dogs me 24/7!

(I suspect that it is not encrypted - pretty ordinary - we don't do "fancy" when it comes to our IT stuff)

Paul

Ironflight said:

I carry both a personal cell phone and a government Blackberry, and I am terrible about remembering to turn them off when I go flying! Sure enough, I have discovered the quick drain on battery power if the cell phone is in "search" mode - I usually remember to kill it when I am going to be flying all day. I've developed a "now worries" attitude about the cell phone (other than the battery drain) - but the Blackberry? Wow, that thing puts out some incredible interference in the audio frequencies! Anyone who has every heard one bleeding onto a telecon knows what I am talking about. When my BB starts to sync itself up (data), you can hear it chattering away on the intercom just the same. That usually reminds me to kill the transmitter until I land. I don't know why it's different than the cell phone, but it sure is!

Paul

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Interesting... As an airline pilot, I can tell you that there have been multiple documented cases of electronic devices interfering with communication and/or navigation equipment. A few even caused autopilots to do funny things. When these events happen, the airplane manufacturer usually buys the actual device (assuming it can be identified) from the person who was operating it -- for testing purposes. The problem is that they can never duplicate the interference in the test environment.

Is it a problem? Maybe, maybe not. Who knows. But I can tell you that I get extremely irritated when I'm riding in the back of a big airplane (particularly a fly-by-wire variety, or on any variety during an autoland) and the businessman sitting next to me just has to turn on his phone/blackberry on approach so he can get his emails a few minutes earlier than everyone else. It's just not worth the potential risk. I could say something, but everyone knows my industry favors customer retention over most rules/regulations.

Geoff said:

But I can tell you that I get extremely irritated when I'm riding in the back of a big airplane (particularly a fly-by-wire variety, or on any variety during an autoland) and the businessman sitting next to me just has to turn on his phone/blackberry on approach so he can get his emails a few minutes earlier than everyone else. It's just not worth the potential risk. I could say something, but everyone knows my industry favors customer retention over most rules/regulations.

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I agree 100% with you! I am always the first to turn off my transmitters on a commercial jet, because (a) I get reminded by the announcement, (b) I am a habitual abider by the rules, and (c) I coule be puttign others at risk than just myself (although I beleive the risk to navigation systems to be extremely remote....). Maybe I need to start doing my own "cabin announcement" in my RV to remind myself.....

Paul

Legality of Cellphone use in flight

I remember listening a few weeks ago on a podcast about the legality of using a cellphone while airborne. From what I've found, it looks like the FCC rules makes it illegal. Am I out to lunch on this?

--
Michael Crowder


FCC 22.925
Revised as of October 1, 2007

Sec. 22.925 Prohibition on airborne operation of cellular telephones.

Cellular telephones installed in or carried aboard airplanes, balloons or
any other type of aircraft must not be operated while such aircraft are
airborne (not touching the ground). When any aircraft leaves the ground, all
cellular telephones on board that aircraft must be turned off. The following
notice must be posted on or near each cellular telephone installed in any
aircraft:

"The use of cellular telephones while this aircraft is airborne is
prohibited by FCC rules, and the violation of this rule could result in
suspension of service and/or a fine. The use of cellular telephones while
this aircraft is on the ground is subject to FAA regulations."

http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/...s.gpo.gov/cfr_2006/octqtr/pdf/47cfr22.935.pdf

Also, there is some good info here...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phones_on_aircraft

The 'encrypted' blackberry devices use the same radios as the regular blackberries. It's just a software difference.

I have a Samsung Blackjack that I frequently forget to turn off. I can always tell if it's on when I'm on final. I never get a signal above about 1000agl and on final I'll get a signal and usually hear the morse-code like negotiation signals through my headset. Pretty funny.

One thing I have heard about cell phones is that certain ones can interfere with stormscopes. This makes sense to some degree.

I used to turn mine off but now always keep it on while flying except commercial flights. Why am I so willing to let my battery drain? A few years ago we did a massive 5 day search for a buddy, flying club mate, and fellow a CAP mission pilot that crashed (not in a CAP plane). The ELT did not activate and no one had any idea where he was or even his intentions. The only reason we were able to narrow down the search to find him was because of his cell phone being on and bouncing off two towers. This gave us a general very large area to start the search but this data also enabled the Air Force to narrow down all the radar tracks and isolate his. Once we had this data it was a short time before he was found in the mountains of SW PA. Unfortunately he had not survived the crash impact.

My understanding is that there are many police agencies that now have tracking equipment that can track cell phone signals and of course there are quite a few that also transmit a GPS location.

Your cell phone is just one more tool in the arsenal should the unthinkable happen.

Capflyer said:

Your cell phone is just one more tool in the arsenal should the unthinkable happen.

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Absolutely right! If I die in the crash I don't care about the cell phone. If I survive the crash I want a cell phone with a full battery charge cause I'm gonna be calling alot of people!

Geico266 said:

Absolutely right! If I die in the crash I don't care about the cell phone. If I survive the crash I want a cell phone with a full battery charge cause I'm gonna be calling alot of people!

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Only one problem with this...

With all the backpacking we do, we never bring our cell phones along. The reason is that there is very limited coverage (none) in the mountains, desert SW, etc. You have to be close to a major highway to get any kind of signal.

Smart, or just forgetful?

I tend to leave the phone on, but hooked to its vehicle charger. I have a 12v outlet in the back seat connected right to the battery (through a CB, of course); use the same port for keeping the ship's battery charged.

The phone might be sucking up juice while I fly, but it's always fully charged when I land!

MC

Ironflight said:

I agree 100% with you! I am always the first to turn off my transmitters on a commercial jet, because (a) I get reminded by the announcement, (b) I am a habitual abider by the rules, and (c) I coule be puttign others at risk than just myself (although I beleive the risk to navigation systems to be extremely remote....). Maybe I need to start doing my own "cabin announcement" in my RV to remind myself.....

Paul

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It's my observation that the habitual offenders are usually in the "business traveller" section of the airplane (as opposed to the "going to see grandma" section of the airplane). What I usually see is:

(a) They don't hear the announcement because they're talking on the phone.
(b) Rules don't apply to them.
(c) They have very little regard or consideration for others because they are far more important than everyone else.

Unfortunately, these issues are not limited to airplane cabins -- they apply to society as a whole, and they seem to be more and more prevalent every year.

Thanks for playing by the rules! Maybe we can start a "respect authority" revolution... except, of course, for those instances when it should be questioned...

Geoff said:

It's my observation that the habitual offenders are usually in the "business traveller" section of the airplane (as opposed to the "going to see grandma" section of the airplane). What I usually see is:

(a) They don't hear the announcement because they're talking on the phone.
(b) Rules don't apply to them.
(c) They have very little regard or consideration for others because they are far more important than everyone else.

Unfortunately, these issues are not limited to airplane cabins -- they apply to society as a whole, and they seem to be more and more prevalent every year.

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Boy, that pretty well sums up the FF upgrade program.

Yep

Geico266 said:

...
When you fly CC the phone is hunting for cell towers and hense uses more battery power. ......

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That's happened to me. I turn it off now unless I need to use it.

As for the commercial flights...

I'm a rule following freak as well. I'm also a straight talking mid-westerner by birth, so, even if I'm in uniform, I can't help but speak up While deadheading, I've asked fellow passengers to turn off their devices as well as to put their seat-backs up (you know, the guy who reclines after the FAs do their last walk-thru before take-off). Those procedures, like so many in aviation, are there for a reason, often reasons determined by lose of life. Something to think about:

In addition to the electronic interference issues (which are debatable on a technical level WAY above my head), I believe the restriction on electronic devices below 10,000 is also due mainly to the fact that if something happens, the cabin crew needs your undivided attention.

Imagine an evacuation when half the pax are watching a DVD, listening to an iPod, holding a conversation with a customer, etc. If you've never seen an evacuation, it's eye-popping...just minutes to empty an entire aircraft. If you did hear the evacuation command, the aisles would be litered with computers and junk making it all the more difficult to get out (hence, seat-backs up, tray tables stowed, bags under the seat). How about putting on an O2 mask over your head set?

I know most people wave off the flight attendants as "flying waitresses", but they are really there in case of the event that you really don't want to be a part of. I'd hate to be a casualty because I couldn't wait 15 minutes to start my movie.

And besides, it's the rule.

Joe

Perhaps a little off topic but this shows the potential risk of using electronic devices on commercial aircraft.

Back in 1995 I was first officer on a commercial airline turboprop (ATR 72). Immediately after takeoff we experienced an electrical problem in which we lost all generators. Fortunatley, the wx was VFR and we returned for a visual pattern and landing.

After landing, a mechanic entered the cockpit to try and troubleshoot the problem (the pax were still on board at this time). At first he was unsuccessful but when he keyed his walkie-talkie to discuss things with his supervisor, low and behold, the gens failed!

Long story short, after a quick search of the cabin, one of the flight attendant found two young boys that were using cheap "Toys-R-Us" variety walkie talkies to communicate with each other. The family had been split up during seating and the father had one boy while the mother had the other.

My memory has failed me and I don't recall what ever became of the situation. I can't remember if the flight was canceled or not but it was an eye opener for sure......

Wilkie

I can also add that having a cell phone start ringing 5 kts. below V1 can really get your attention..and not in a good way! Don't ask me how I know that!!

As far as leaving it on in case of an emergency landing/crash, perhaps the better solution there would be to turn it on during an emergency descent. You could make the procedure a part of your emergency "engine out/driftdown" drill.

jdmunzell said:

As far as leaving it on in case of an emergency landing/crash, perhaps the better solution there would be to turn it on during an emergency descent. You could make the procedure a part of your emergency "engine out/driftdown" drill.

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That's where I added the step "PLB - Activate!" Gotta love 406, Satellites, and GPS.....

cell phones

ALPA has sent out information that several battery operated devices have had thermal runaways. Some durning a recharge and some while not on a charger. When a cell phone is searching, it uses a lot of juice. I have forgotten mine on a flight and the battery got warm enough to remind me. There have been several cabin fires and at least one instance of a pallet of batteries on a cargo ramp burning. A chemical reaction fire is difficult to put out. I used to recharge my cell phone in the cockpit with the 115V outlet, but not any more.
Daryl

Lithium batteries

Darylat8750ft said:

ALPA has sent out information that several battery operated devices have had thermal runaways. Some durning a recharge and some while not on a charger. When a cell phone is searching, it uses a lot of juice. I have forgotten mine on a flight and the battery got warm enough to remind me. There have been several cabin fires and at least one instance of a pallet of batteries on a cargo ramp burning. A chemical reaction fire is difficult to put out. I used to recharge my cell phone in the cockpit with the 115V outlet, but not any more.
Daryl

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I recently saw an FAA video in recurrent training about lithium batteries and laptop fires. They showed that once thermal runaway starts and the laptop explodes the first time, it's very difficult to stop the runaway in a multi-cell lithium battery. They could easily put out the fire with a halon extinguisher, but then it started up again a minute later when the next cell exploded.

The key is to cool the laptop by pouring liquid on it continuously (contrary to well-known advice about not mixing liquids with electrical fires). They also demonstrated that covering the laptop with ice cubes (thinking that you'll cool the batteries) has the opposite effect -- the ice keeps the heat in and promotes the continuation of thermal runaway.

Slam dunk

Geoff said:

It's my observation that the habitual offenders are usually in the "business traveller" section of the airplane

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Hey, I resemble that comment! No, not really..., just the Freak Flyer part.

I do travel a lot and since I am not hampered by the customer service hamstring that Geoff has, I have no problem admonishing a self absorbed traveller to follow the rules. Since we (pilots) are a very small slice of the populace, and are generally "rule followers", it is very easy to assume the offenders are not. I challenge any "it doesn't hurt anybody" type of response by simply asking if they are a pilot or aerospace trained engineer (I am) with knowledge to back that up.

It's not just about you...

My job is in the wireless communications industry. Cellular infrastructure is designed to provide seamless handoff from tower to tower at speeds up to about 100mph, although they can usually make the handoff at much higher speeds. The system is intended for users on the ground, and even in an emergency, 100mph is about the top speed ground based users will require. This handoff consumes a fair amount of bandwidth, but not for very long. Basically your phone and the wireless infrastructure are constantly playing the "where's the strongest signal coming from" game. When you are exceeding the limitations of the system, your phone has to play this game more often, and thus it consumes more battery power. On the wireless provider side though, it becomes extremely detrimental to everyone else trying to use the same towers that are trying to seamlessly transfer your connection. If you become a problematic customer, wreaking unnecessary havoc on the system, the FCC allows your carrier to refuse you service based on those grounds. If bad enough, you could be prosecuted, although, I don't think that's happened yet.

BUT, cell antennas these days are generally pointed in a slight downward angle on the cell tower. This helps the carrier better control their coverage area, and it also prevents you from getting a signal above about 2000 AGL.

So, if you're just zooming around on a Sunday afternoon at 1000', for your wireless carrier's, and their other customer's sake, please turn your phone off. Going CC above about 2k', do what you want. You're off the net and your phone is constantly seeking with no answers. It's your battery.

For the emergency situation, all CDMA phones (Sprint (not Nextel) and Verizon) are equipped with GPS. GSM phones (AT&T and T-Mobile) are not necessarily equipped with GPS, but can still use triangulation from cell towers to approximate your location. A recent regulation, E911, will make these location services more accurate.

On a related interesting note, your wireless carrier does track the movement of it's customers phones as they travel through the network. (They're primarily interested in the phone here, not who it belongs to. No conspiracy theories, pls.) It allows them to determine when to add cell sites, etc. Third parties buy access to this information and provide real-time vehicular traffic updates by overlaying the GPS or triangulation over a road map. Two such companies sell devices now that you can put into your car for GPS directions that take into account real-time traffic using this information. I can't remember their names off the top of my head, but if you're interested, PM me Monday and I'll dig around to find the names. No, I don't work for either of them, just think they have a cool product.

Have a good un

N941WR said:

Paul,

Is your BB one of the secure ones they issue to Fed law enforcement i.e., is it encrypted? That might have something to do with your interference. My non-government BB never caused my any problems that I now of.

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ALL Blackberries use encryption when used with an Enterprise Server (BES) that is why they are so popular with the government and Fortune 1000. It it not so much that the Blackberry service causes interference as much as the carrier that is used. Sprint/Nextel for instance causes lots of interference while Verizon and AT&T cause less. Over the past few years I've had a Blackberry/Phone from each of those carriers.

Text messaging works much higher than 2000'

One pilot and his wife (names withheld) turn on the cell phones in flight to send & receive text messages about ETAs etc. Holding the phone above the sides of the fuselage helps, or so I am told.

BlackRV7 said:

My iphone is a serious intercom interruptus when it starts gettting smart.......

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Loudest urban cowboy phone I've ever heard..