What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

RV-12 Questions for SnF

Phyrcooler

Phyrcooler

Well Known Member
OK? so the RV-12 has been developed. It is supposed to go on sale (at least the wing kits per rumors) on Tuesday. Van?s has provided ongoing info? more than ever before. But, most of us still have scores of unanswered questions. JerryG150 has said he will photograph the heck out of it for us at Sun-n-Fun. In addition to Jerry, hopefully we will have many of our other VAF?ers there asking questions. So? being one of the West Coasters who won?t make it to S-n-F? I thought I?d start a list of questions that hopefully our loyal Airmen (and women) will seek answers and post for us. So? here is a start (with some of the obvious):

? Performance specs ? anything releasable yet on this production version?
? Update on kit component breakdown? Wings/Fuselage/Finishing?
? Cost?
? S-LSA/E-LSA Specs? What will the options (if any) be? IE:
  • Steam Gauges
  • Auto-pilot
  • Radios (Icom vs. Garmin)
  • Lighting Package?
  • Wheel-pants?
? Build process. Reportedly prepunched to full size. Just deburr & Rivet as we have opined?
? Any required jigs or fixtures?
? Recommended Tool List?

OK? well that is a few of my current questions. I?m looking forward to hearing much more, as well as seeing any and all photos. I?m sure that Van?s will again update its website next week? but not sure how many of these will be answered.

I will be ordering the preview plans as soon as they make them available.

Anybody else have questions? :D

DJ
 
delivery date

1. delivery date

and for those who get them delivered and have to provide a way to get it off the truck

2. size of crate (S)
3. Weight of crate (S)
4. Engine lead times
5. engine cost
6. prop lead times
7. prop costs
 
Well... its a start. Hopefully someone going to Sun-N-Fun takes notes! ;)

Anybody else have questions to add? :) DJ
 
Can I delete paint on an e-lsa version even though Van painted the kit prototype? I would like a mirror polish except for the fiberglass bits.
 
Last edited:
I'll be at SNF on wed. I'll submit photos in the evening.
Although. it appears Vans has provided a nice album on their site.
 
Pallet said:
Will it perform aerobatics???? Or for some individuals, is it designed for??
thanks,
Todd
Click to expand...
I am sure since the LSA requirements prohibit aerobatics in any LSA aircraft, Van's is not going to allow sign off for aerobatics in their LSA.
 
RVbySDI said:
I am sure since the LSA requirements prohibit aerobatics in any LSA aircraft.
Click to expand...
What? I don't recall seeing this anyplace. Is that correct?

Why not build it as an E-AB that meets the LSA requirements. That way you can do acro in it, if you like and it can still be flown by a Sport Pilot.
 
Last edited:
Feet

I looked at Vans photo of the rudder pedals. The fuselage curves in quite sharply , so your left foot is resting on a curved surface while your right foot is on a flat floor. If anyone gets a chance to sit in the plane please can you comment on whether this is noticeable?

Thanks...Keith
 
Hmmm

Mel would know much more than I but I thought I read that acro was not allowed in the LSA category.
 
Acro may be prohibited for the Sport Pilot. I'm not sure about that. I'm just involved with the aircraft and there is no prohibition of acro that I know of. If there is, some one please give me the reference.
There are many things that are prohibited for the sport pilot such as night flying, but the aircraft certainly can be equipped for it. Things like this are operational issues, not aircraft restrictions.
 
Hey! No Foul.

There are probably others out there with the same questions. We can all learn.
If we stop learning, It's all Over!
 
Mel said:
There are probably others out there with the same questions. We can all learn.
If we stop learning, It's all Over!
Click to expand...
What Mel said! No foul at all.

BTW, the AcroSport I is an LSA aircraft, even with an AEIO-320. :D
 
N941WR said:
BTW, the AcroSport I is an LSA aircraft, even with an AEIO-320. :D
Click to expand...

You would have to be careful with the gross weight. I think the advertised gross is 1350. If the airplane were originally certificated at this, it would not be in compliance.
 
Mel said:
You would have to be careful with the gross weight. I think the advertised gross is 1350. If the airplane were originally certificated at this, it would not be in compliance.
Click to expand...
Once again Mel you are correct. I doubt there are any out there with the GW listed for less that than 1350. Still, it doesn't mean you couldn't build one and limit the GW to fit within the LSA guidelines.
 
Hey could you guys ask if there is a panel mounted fuel gage? I was checking out the detail photos of the red 12 and saw the fuel tank has a sight gage on the side. The tank is in the baggage area so where do you put the baggage so you can still see the sight gage? I also see that you have to be in the left seat looking over your shoulder to view it. Does that imply left seat PIC only?
 
ReadyRV said:
Hey could you guys ask if there is a panel mounted fuel gage? I was checking out the detail photos of the red 12 and saw the fuel tank has a sight gage on the side. The tank is in the baggage area so where do you put the baggage so you can still see the sight gage? I also see that you have to be in the left seat looking over your shoulder to view it. Does that imply left seat PIC only?
Click to expand...

Wouldn't this be part of the Dynon FlightDek?

--Bill
 
ReadyRV said:
Hey could you guys ask if there is a panel mounted fuel gage? I was checking out the detail photos of the red 12 and saw the fuel tank has a sight gage on the side. The tank is in the baggage area so where do you put the baggage so you can still see the sight gage? I also see that you have to be in the left seat looking over your shoulder to view it. Does that imply left seat PIC only?
Click to expand...

Note in the tank photo that there is a fuel gage level sender on the front of the tank (it's dark, hard to see). The EMS portion of the Dynon display has a fuel gage as part of the displayed info. The site gage is to verify level at preflight. The tank design makes it impossible to remove the cap and visually verify like on other airplanes.
 
gblwy said:
I looked at Vans photo of the rudder pedals. The fuselage curves in quite sharply , so your left foot is resting on a curved surface while your right foot is on a flat floor. If anyone gets a chance to sit in the plane please can you comment on whether this is noticeable?

Thanks...Keith
Click to expand...

It's not noticeable.
When you sit in an airplane with your legs slightly separated to allow clearance for the stick your feet naturally rotate so that your toes are pointed away from each other. This makes your heals naturally fall in position on a flat portion of the floor.
 
Ditto this is my Question as well, Can someone please ASK!

Build process. Reportedly prepunched to full size. Just deburr & Rivet as we have opined?
 
beattiema said:
According to the RV12 Flyer it is prepunched.
http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/12_snf_08.pdf

"All metal parts are completely formed and pre-punched with fastener holes."
Click to expand...
Yes and so are all the holes on the -7,-8, -9, & -10 but you still need to drill them to final size before deburring and riveting.

The question is, Did Van's pre-punch the holes in the -12 to final size or do they need to be enlarged prior to deburring and riveting?
 
Ditto Bill, but more accurately do we still have to debur???

I know some of the European metal kits you don't have to...something about waterjet cutting instead of punching holes not leaving burs. We heard a 'rumor' that no deburring will be required so we need to find out!

I am having dreams of parts out the box, clecko and rivet, and that is it! (No I am not going to prime this time around!)

Someone please ask!!!

Thanks
Rudi
 
Last edited:
Rudi has a really great and spot on question.

If the holes are final size tremendous time could be shaved from the build. Not require deburring would be an added plus.

Pardon me the following rant:

Also, if a wiring harness is included in the kit (Van's info indicates that it is) then this would also be a real time saver.

Having everything thought out, planned out, and specified just has to prevent mistakes and allow a first time builder to proceed much more quickly and with much greater confidence.

For all of the above (and medical, license, non-builder maintenance, construction noise, storage) comparisons between the 12 and other RVs is really an apples to oranges issue.

Just my .02

Anyone know the answer to Rudi?s question?

-Dave
 
DaveLS said:
If the holes are final size tremendous time could be shaved from the build. Not require deburring would be an added plus.
Click to expand...

Unless something changed in the last 2 years, since the following was written, the RV-12 presumably comes with "full-sized pre-punched holes" (quoted directly from the following in Van's web site):

http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/rv-12his_2.htm

"As ever, I’m amazed at how matched-hole punching has reduced assembly time. I learned a few things about blind rivets, too. I hadn’t thought about it before, but one of the advantages of blind rivets is that you no longer have to consider bucking access when you design the structure. Rib flanges can turn either way and there’s no need to worry about how to reach inside a closing structure. Just cleco the skins on, stick blind rivets in all the remaining holes and go to work with the pneumatic rivet puller. No dimpling -- since the airplane’s top speed is limited by rule, there’s no particular need for flush rivets. Low profile blind rivets ain’t cheap (at least, compared to solid rivets) but they are quick. Another lesson – seaming pliers will be an important tool on this project. Flanges must be adjusted carefully to make the full-sized pre-punched holes align exactly — and they need to be aligned if the blind rivet is to go in easily."

I presume punched holes, rather than drilled ones, are unlikely to need deburring [on further research, I see that they probably would need deburring]. As to the other perennial question of doing "extra" corrosion protection on alclad surfaces, well ....
 
Last edited:
From the Aero News Network interview Van uses the phrase "full matched hole tooling" in reference to the short cuts that built into the kit.
 
RudiGreyling said:
Ditto this is my Question as well, Can someone please ASK!

Build process. Reportedly prepunched to full size. Just deburr & Rivet as we have opined?
Click to expand...

Just in case Rudi or anyone else is still wondering, I'm currently getting lots of sun down here in sunny Lakeland, and it really seemed like the -12 was one of the highlights of the show!

I was able to corner Ken and ask him a few questions, and one that I asked right away was about the holes and deburring. His answer was that all holes are in fact drilled to final size, and the only deburring they feel that's necessary is in a few critical areas, but overall it mostly won't be needed. The latest they've heard as of this morning is that there's been right around 100 wing kits ordered thus far, with tons of interest down here. It took my wife and I several attempts to even sit in the plane because so many people were sitting in it and asking questions. And, just in case anyone's curious, I'm 6'3", 240 lbs, and the plane was very comfortable and roomy for me. I may need some thin seat cushions, but otherwise it's a very nice feeling airplane for even someone as big as me :)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Still blind rivets?

And just to confirm, the kit is still designed for blind (Avex "pop") rivets, correct?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top