Panel comments

VAF guys... for your comments.....(dare I?......)

My panel design is mostly complete, as a VFR only plane. With the advent of the new "experimental glass" devices, I'm amazed at how simple the panel can become. The Dynon D-180 really does save a lot of panel space.

The panel is original Vans RV-6A size, with a 3/4 inch edge keep out area for my version of a DIY modular panel with two overlays.

The avionics are pretty settled, with the Apollo GX-65 GPS/Comm installed only because I am very used to the similar GX-55R unit in my Tiger - it seems to be the only moving map I need at this time - but space is easily available for a future upgrade ($$$) to a 396/496 with weather...
I personally like having 2 comm. radios.



A larger version picture is on my web site...

http://home.earthlink.net/~gilalex/RV/pic-panel-large.jpg

The avionics units are as high as they can go with the tip-up canopy frame interference issue, so the intercom, com1/com2 select switches and lighting switches can go above the avionics.

The stack is high enough to be expanded to have a 430 replace the Apollo in a future upgrade...

Left hand lower switches are master power - start - alternate bus feed - left mag./right elec. ign - then a separate group for fuel boost-prime - then two pullable circuit breakers for alternator field - auto pilot... then a trim indicator, just because I already have it and it will keep the D-180 screen less cluttered....

Carb./FP prop, so the flap switch is to the right of the mixture knob. Fuses are on a swing out panel under the glove box area.

See anything I've forgotten? - preferably in the less than kilobuck range....
Do people really need all of those switches and dials?....

gil A

Progress is now being made....

az_gila said:

VAF guys... for your comments.....(dare I?......)

My panel design is mostly complete, as a VFR only plane. With the advent of the new "experimental glass" devices, I'm amazed at how simple the panel can become. The Dynon D-180 really does save a lot of panel space.

The panel is original Vans RV-6A size, with a 3/4 inch edge keep out area for my version of a DIY modular panel with two overlays.

The avionics are pretty settled, with the Apollo GX-65 GPS/Comm installed only because I am very used to the similar GX-55R unit in my Tiger - it seems to be the only moving map I need at this time - but space is easily available for a future upgrade ($$$) to a 396/496 with weather...
I personally like having 2 comm. radios.

A larger version picture is on my web site...

http://home.earthlink.net/~gilalex/RV/pic-panel-large.jpg

The avionics units are as high as they can go with the tip-up canopy frame interference issue, so the intercom, com1/com2 select switches and lighting switches can go above the avionics.

The stack is high enough to be expanded to have a 430 replace the Apollo in a future upgrade...

Left hand lower switches are master power - start - alternate bus feed - left mag./right elec. ign - then a separate group for fuel boost-prime - then two pullable circuit breakers for alternator field - auto pilot... then a trim indicator, just because I already have it and it will keep the D-180 screen less cluttered....

Carb./FP prop, so the flap switch is to the right of the mixture knob. Fuses are on a swing out panel under the glove box area.

See anything I've forgotten? - preferably in the less than kilobuck range....
Do people really need all of those switches and dials?....

gil A

Progress is now being made....

Click to expand...

Looks Great!
Jim Sharkey

Flap switch idea...

Good morning, Gil !

That panel looks fine. My one and only suggestion, and this comes from flying a few RVs with electric flaps, is to locate the flap switch in a position where you can use it while the palm of your hand is still on the throttle knob. Somewhere around the 10 o'clock position on the knob on about a two inch radius (right about where your A/P breaker is). I find this makes touch n'gos easier and the motion mechanics of the downwind/base/final routine more efficient.

I see from your signature you already have a Tiger. I've flown in those too and found that my RV-6 is SO much more responsive in the flare - sometimes having the ability to dump the flaps fast (while still on the throttle) helps get you in a short strip.

My .02 as always...feel free to disregard <g>.

b,
dr

A glove box? Really?

Nice panel Gil - hope people rememebr your "Day VFR" mission before ragging on you....I like what you've got!

Paul

Hi Gil,
Looks like a great VFR panel. You'll really like flying behind the Dynon.

Only comment I have is along the line of the one Doug made about the flap switch (which I agree with). I figure you put the cabin heat knob all the way over on the right side to 'match' the parking brake that is on the left side. Unless you have bungee cord arms you will NOT be able to reach the cabin heat without loosening your shoulder harnesses in flight.

Good Luck.....and keep poundin'!

Looks good!

You don't need much more than a D-180 for day VFR. However, I agree that the cabin heat pull will be almost unmanagable unless you expect to have a full-time passenger. Also, where will you put the cabin air vents? You'll sure want some ventilation in Tucson!

Add...

Instead of the glove box you may want to consider adding a second EFIS screen!

I just flew with a friend who's put a "glass" cockpit in his -9A. (Grand Rapids I think.) He's put three screens in his aircraft (two vertically on the pilot's side, one on the passenger side) which made switching the primary flight data to my side a simple button pushing snap! It was very convenient. If you ever decide to do a long cross country with another pilot and split flying duties, I'm sure it would be appreciated.

Gil, DR has a great suggestion on the flaps. Remember you use them every flight. If you can swing it put the flaps control on the stick. It's a little extra work / expense, but I can tell you having flown both on the stick flap control is just the way to go. One less thing to visually pick up in the pattern.

Looks good otherwise. What color is the panel going to be?

On the other hand, the cockpit is narrow enough to let you see from either side. I worried about that when I designed my panel, but after sitting in the cockpit with it, I can reach controls and breakers clear on the other side. On the glove box cover, I am putting a mount so my passenger can enjoy one of those mobile DVD players.

Speaking of breakers, I think you are going to need more. Flap motor, for one. Fuel pump. I'm assuming you have no lights or pitot heat. Avionics breakers. Mine's an IFR panel and not that much more complex; most of the complexity on mine is dealing with the LightSpeed backup. Not that you don't have a ton of room for breakers...

Also, I don't think you'll have clearance issues with the Dynon if you move it upwards. You might find that a bit more convenient for a VFR machine; it'll help keep your head 'out of the cockpit'.

One thing I didn't spot on your drawing was the spacer pieces between the panel and subpanel. I bought a couple of extras from Van's (too lazy to fabricate from scrap) and ended up leaving the one on the right where it was but putting two on the left side, one on either side of the display (Blue Mountain, in my case). Aerotronics, who did the panel wiring, discovered that they could be moved up as well, to accommodate the wiring harness running along the bottom flange (or your switch panels) and avoids having to carve them up for clearance.

Looks really nice; it should be a great panel.

I don't like it. bunch of dead space right in the center. also, you may bump your knee on the throttle mount if you use the factory supplied piece without moving everything closer together.

Clock could be replaced by a vertical compass card.

FredMagare said:

Instead of the glove box you may want to consider adding a second EFIS screen!

Click to expand...

Yeah, but; don't extra EFIS screens cost more money? I don't think they're giving them away just yet...

az_gila said:

The avionics units are as high as they can go with the tip-up canopy frame interference issue, so the intercom, com1/com2 select switches and lighting switches can go above the avionics.

Click to expand...

What are the contributors to such a large 'keep out' area? There are the tip-up hinges on each side, tapered as they go forward; but what else to cause the keep out all the way across? (Assuming no jettison mechanism as I don't see the handle).

Keep out area...

GrayHawk said:

What are the contributors to such a large 'keep out' area? There are the tip-up hinges on each side, tapered as they go forward; but what else to cause the keep out all the way across? (Assuming no jettison mechanism as I don't see the handle).

Click to expand...

Thanks for all of the comments... responses coming....

The jettison handle is a vertical rod behind the sub panel.

The "all the way across" keep out area is basically the forward frame of the tip up canopy. It is about 2 inches deep and is about 4 inches behind the instrument panel. This dictates how high the D-180 can sit in the panel.

Most avionics will definitely hit this... and some extra clearance is needed at the top of the radio stack where the hinges curve down and enter the UHMW blocks.

gil A

Flap switch

DeltaRomeo said:

Good morning, Gil !

That panel looks fine. My one and only suggestion, and this comes from flying a few RVs with electric flaps, is to locate the flap switch in a position where you can use it while the palm of your hand is still on the throttle knob. Somewhere around the 10 o'clock position on the knob on about a two inch radius (right about where your A/P breaker is). I find this makes touch n'gos easier and the motion mechanics of the downwind/base/final routine more efficient.

I see from your signature you already have a Tiger. I've flown in those too and found that my RV-6 is SO much more responsive in the flare - sometimes having the ability to dump the flaps fast (while still on the throttle) helps get you in a short strip.

My .02 as always...feel free to disregard <g>.

b,
dr

Click to expand...

OK... flap switches seem to have got the most comments...

I am personally opposed to having anything on the stick that can activate and break something (exceed flap extension speed) while in cruise. So, somewhere on the panel it is...

The comment on go-arounds seems to ignore the carb heat knob.... which I was taught (Cessnas) is where it is so you can use your thumb... but since carb. heat is considered an "As Required" for our Lycomings - Doug's suggested location sounds good.

One change in the works.... thanks....

gil A

Panels are so personal....but I like yours for its simplicity. Most are too cluttered with not needed expensive duplicity for the basic VFR operation.

I like an auto pilot with altitude hold for long cross country flight and coupled to the GPS. Yes, anyone can hand fly these things all day, but the AP makes traffic watch more effective and its easy to keep track of position with charts. It also provides a back up attitude reference if the D-180 quits on those hot, hazy summer days with little horizon.

As usual, about 2 cents worth...

Heat + Parking brake controls - Compass

Louise Hose said:

You don't need much more than a D-180 for day VFR. However, I agree that the cabin heat pull will be almost unmanagable unless you expect to have a full-time passenger. Also, where will you put the cabin air vents? You'll sure want some ventilation in Tucson!

Click to expand...

Thanks Louise... the vents are planned......
They will go in the standard RV-6 position just under the lower edge of the panel against the side walls. A bit lower than the later models, but the original factory location.

The heat and parking brake knobs where located so that the panel overlays could be removed and the controls will still remain attached to the "panel frame" - this will make servicing and future upgrades much easier.

There seems to be some differing opinion on reaching the far side heat control... It seems to me it could be reached from the pilot's side (I'm 5-10) - this is also an infrequently used knob in Tucson...

A compass was also mentioned (and on a phone call this morning) - I assumed (usually a bad thing to do......) that the Dynon compass mod would suffice - my Dynon will have the internal back-up battery.

Perhaps a DAR could clarify this?

If a compass is needed, I would use the typical 2300 model mounted in the center on top of the glare shield - tip-up, so no center mounting rod...

...thanks again to all for the comments... gil A

Autopilot

David-aviator said:

Panels are so personal....but I like yours for its simplicity. Most are too cluttered with not needed expensive duplicity for the basic VFR operation.

I like an auto pilot with altitude hold for long cross country flight and coupled to the GPS. Yes, anyone can hand fly these things all day, but the AP makes traffic watch more effective and its easy to keep track of position with charts. It also provides a back up attitude reference if the D-180 quits on those hot, hazy summer days with little horizon.

As usual, about 2 cents worth...

Click to expand...

Don't have on on the Tiger... but fully agree with your comments about the need for one.

Betting on the future here... but a Dynon auto pilot is planned.

If not, then an extra 2 1/4 TruTrak instrument could go to the right of the Dynon, sort of opposite the airspeed.

The autopilot pull-able breaker is in the panel as an emergency disconnect.

gil A

Colors

Geico266 said:

......
Looks good otherwise. What color is the panel going to be?

Click to expand...

Interior colors - paint and fabric - are grey (boring, I know......) and match the colors of our old 1994 Astro Van (R.I.P.).

This makes it GM 13CN/9656 Dark Gray... I'm looking into the water based JetFlex for the interior painting, which is a task coming up soon.

gil A

Looks good!

Gil,

Your panel is almost identical to mine.

Like you, I put the cabin heat all the way on the right side and can reach it in flight w/o adjusting my harness.

I would put the parking brake up a bit and install the head phone jacks where you have the parking brake and cabin heat. The cords drop down and run along the side of your leg and are not in the way. (Personal choice here.)

I would not install the clock as the Dynon has some very nice clock features, including a count down timer to let you know when to switch fuel tanks.

Your flap switch may work out fine. That is the same location as mine but I have a throttle quadrant and can toggle the flaps up and down w/o moving my hand. On a go-around, I can push and hold the throttle, mixture, and carb heat in while raising the flaps all in one motion. That is the key. I've seen flap switches to the left and so every time a flap adjustment is needed, the hand has to come off the throttle and move to the left. Not good ergonomics, IMHO.

Move the primer away from the boost and other switches. You will only use it for starting and don't want to risk bumping it in flight. Maybe put it over by the starter button.

Think about:
1. Using a split Cessna switch. They work great and don't cost that much ($22 w/ housing).

2. Moving your landing light switches to the bottom of the radio stack. That way you won't have to move your hand around in the high stress landing phase of flight. This will allow you to move your GPS to the top of the stack so it is more in your line of site.

3. Since you are VFR, why install an E-Bus? You will have limited equipment and can either turn off the few things that will draw battery power or pull the breakers. Not installing an E-Bus will greatly simplify your wiring. If I had built an IFR ship, I would have one but felt it added unnecessary complexity to a VFR ship.

4. Where are your breakers / fuses?

5. Since the Dynon has a million and one warnings, I didn't install any warning lights on the panel other than a green "Fuel Pump On" light right over the Dynon. This way I can see if it is one when I line up to take off as it is in the top of my scan. Just wire the light in parallel with the fuel pump.

6. Finally, this is your panel. Build it like you want it!

I hope that helps.

I'd move the clock to have room for the future 596

Multiple Stuff....

flion said:

On the other hand, the cockpit is narrow enough to let you see from either side. I worried about that when I designed my panel, but after sitting in the cockpit with it, I can reach controls and breakers clear on the other side. On the glove box cover, I am putting a mount so my passenger can enjoy one of those mobile DVD players.

Speaking of breakers, I think you are going to need more. Flap motor, for one. Fuel pump. I'm assuming you have no lights or pitot heat. Avionics breakers. Mine's an IFR panel and not that much more complex; most of the complexity on mine is dealing with the LightSpeed backup. Not that you don't have a ton of room for breakers...

Also, I don't think you'll have clearance issues with the Dynon if you move it upwards. You might find that a bit more convenient for a VFR machine; it'll help keep your head 'out of the cockpit'.

One thing I didn't spot on your drawing was the spacer pieces between the panel and subpanel. I bought a couple of extras from Van's (too lazy to fabricate from scrap) and ended up leaving the one on the right where it was but putting two on the left side, one on either side of the display (Blue Mountain, in my case). Aerotronics, who did the panel wiring, discovered that they could be moved up as well, to accommodate the wiring harness running along the bottom flange (or your switch panels) and avoids having to carve them up for clearance.

Looks really nice; it should be a great panel.

Click to expand...

Thanks Patrick,

Glove Box
- my spouse/navigator likes to look out of the window and follow our progress on a sectional, so no DVD player is needed...

Breakers
- the only breakers on the panel are pull-able for emergency disconnect - everything else is connected to fuses, on a swing down panel under the glove box. No pitot heat, but lights are switched on the rockers above the radio stack.

Dynon clearance
- I'm going to make a plywood overlay and mount the Dynon in it and find out exactly how high up I can mount it... I think the three tubing connections are the contact point, but I'll verify...

Spacers
- The spacers are there... the right hand one is standard, the left one is cut down to about 2 inches. This shows the left one.. the right one is behind the two red screw heads...



I deliberately tried to not have an extra lower panel, and there is not much wiring involved at the lower level of the panel due to the remote fuse panel, which can be seen through the glove box hole in the sub-panel.

gil A

Moving maps

Paul Thomas said:

I'd move the clock to have room for the future 596

Click to expand...

Yes.. a higher quality moving map would be good...

I was hoping for one of the experimental avionics vendors to come out with a real panel mounted one - definitely personal opinion, but I don't like the Gizmo look...

The clock area of the panel is ripe for a future (many more $$$) upgrade.... the overlay should make it somewhat easy...

gil A

Feedback

Hi Gill,

As folks recently told me when I asked for feedback - "you ask of it!". This is what I've recently learned while planning my panel (or at least attempting to).

So this is what I see.

Had you considered on protecting some of the more critical switches from accidental movement especially in areas (avionics, controls, etc) that your hand will frequent? For example, you're flying along and you need to punch some buttons on the Dynon and you hit some turbulence - next thing you know your hand accidentally pushed both mag switches to the 'off' position. Might also consider the same w/ the flap switch as it looks like it's either "full up" or "full down" rather than a spring back.

Why the clock? You mentioned about the possibly of installing a future 396/496. If that's so, will you have to recut your entire panel because the clock left a big hole in the upper right corner the 396/496 hole won't consume/cover up? Maybe that won't matter with your dual overlay modular panel.

I'm not familiar with the Dynon units, but what about some kind of flashing master alert light for things like low fuel pressure, low oil pressure, etc. Just something to get your attention while you are looking outside. You might need some kind of dimmer if you plan to fly at night and the master alarm goes off. Course at night, folks might think you have a big red beacon as the light is lighting up your canopy and just move out of the way.

Since you're using fuses, switches are cheaper than pull-able breakers ($3.50 vs $20.00 according to Stein - the savings might allow you to buy the red light from above). I think it's a good call to have some kind of easily accessible kill switch for the auto-pilot should it decide to freak out.

Back to the flying at night thing - Will the 'Panel Lts' dim both panel lights and instrument lights? Not sure if you're going to have lights shining on the panel. Are the Strobe, Nav, and Lndg switches back lit? If so, might want to consider dimming those also.

Your right hand will be doing all the button pushing while your left will stay on the controls. I think you covered all the major items. I like the simplicity. This is, of course, free advice so you're free to do with it what you want.

Take care,

Great panel Gil

I like the equipment list, but would move everything to a different positions.

Just kidding....

Here is what I see and some others have already suggested:

1. Move alt field breaker next to alt field switch.
2. Move AP breaker next to AP power switch (whoops, you don't have one, so add it). Oh, I just realized that it was pull-able for that is covered.
3. Go a head an add the WigWag, it is useful even in daylight.
4. Plan for panel dimming knob, I see that you have a three position switch, but the knob will do a better job.

I like my plane to be pilot centric. My wife is my primary passenger and she doesn't want anything but passenger stuff to do. If I take someone else for a ride/flight and they want to fly the plane, I let them fly, but I am still the pilot. I don't have breaks on the passenger side, nor did I bother with any flight instruments. I didn't put in the glove box, but did leave space for it.

I don't know how you behind panel compares to my 9A tip-up, but would move the radios closer to the pilot if you can.

My fuses are located on one of the ribs going to the panel. When I open the canopy I get full access to changing them. I would not change any fuses in flight.



There are three blocks, a 6 and a 10 facing you and on the other side of the rib is a 20.

By the way my GX60 in my C172 is easier for me to use then my new 430. I guess because I flew behind it for so many years.

Go ahead an plan the position for the 496 now. I would put it above the GX, it you can arrange it. I didn't have one in my panel and then I could stand that there was one more cool gadget out there that I didn't have in my plane. I had to rearrange my panel to get it in and close enough.

Have fun with your panel.

Kent

Thanks David

See comments interspersed in text.........

Had you considered on protecting some of the more critical switches from accidental movement especially in areas (avionics, controls, etc) that your hand will frequent? For example, you're flying along and you need to punch some buttons on the Dynon and you hit some turbulence - next thing you know your hand accidentally pushed both mag switches to the 'off' position. Might also consider the same w/ the flap switch as it looks like it's either "full up" or "full down" rather than a spring back.

Good point.... I would like to hear from other Dynon users on this. The Dynon will probably be raised a little if clearance allows it. The push button switches (starter/prime) will have protecting rings around them.

Why the clock? You mentioned about the possibly of installing a future 396/496. If that's so, will you have to recut your entire panel because the clock left a big hole in the upper right corner the 396/496 hole won't consume/cover up? Maybe that won't matter with your dual overlay modular panel.

New overlay is OK.. there will be no engraving on the panel, so change should be easy. I like the clock with hands, and using the one on the Dynon either clutters up the display, or needs a new page. My wife/navigator likes it, there is plenty of space for it, and I already have it....

I'm not familiar with the Dynon units, but what about some kind of flashing master alert light for things like low fuel pressure, low oil pressure, etc. Just something to get your attention while you are looking outside. You might need some kind of dimmer if you plan to fly at night and the master alarm goes off. Course at night, folks might think you have a big red beacon as the light is lighting up your canopy and just move out of the way.

The Dynon blinks red on the screen (and has audio alerts) - I will put a "Dynon alert cancel" button on the stick.
I don't plan much (any?) night flying due to the large, adjacent lumps of rock in AZ, and none of the three instruments are lit. I plan a red LED strip under the glare shield for light, and think a off/lo/hi switch should do the trick. The Dynon is dimmable, and the GX is auto-dim. The rocker switches are not lit, but are right under the glare shield.

Since you're using fuses, switches are cheaper than pull-able breakers ($3.50 vs $20.00 according to Stein - the savings might allow you to buy the red light from above). I think it's a good call to have some kind of easily accessible kill switch for the auto-pilot should it decide to freak out.

The pull-able breakers (only 2) do this for the alternator and autopilot... everything else is fuse protected.

Back to the flying at night thing - Will the 'Panel Lts' dim both panel lights and instrument lights? Not sure if you're going to have lights shining on the panel. Are the Strobe, Nav, and Lndg switches back lit? If so, might want to consider dimming those also.

See above....

Your right hand will be doing all the button pushing while your left will stay on the controls. I think you covered all the major items. I like the simplicity. This is, of course, free advice so you're free to do with it what you want.

Thanks for the comments... gil A

Gill:

For Day/VFR, I would leave the backup instuments off. Just more things that consume $time$ and introduce failure modes and maintenance cycles.

Several strategies seem prevelant on switch locations (not going to address flap switch). 1 strategy is to use a left to right sequence or other planned pattern to match when the switches are used.

The other strategy is to group related switches in unique locations. I'm a proponent of this strategy because I want to know where to reach in an instant for my engine switches or main/alt/e-bus power switches. The rest are configuration switches to turn items on and off. I'm not really worried about having a pattern, just a separation of distance (I do use the left to right pattern within my major groupings). So, I have 3 separate locations for switches, engine, electrical power and configuration items.

The clock is personnal. Others have said delete it. Here's another option: replaced it with one of those fancy clock and g-meter things discussed in the forums a week to 10 days ago. I would also recommend you look at moving the clock to keep the "prime real estate" open for your future map upgrade. Cuting a new panel is a much bigger undertaking than cutting a hole for a new item. It may reguire rewiring your bus feeds to accomodate location changes. Basiclly, the more you need to move or alter, the more repurcusions you will experience, some predicted but many unexpected.

Good luck. I found panel design and systems planning to be sort of like a Shakespearian tragedy: you experience a wide range of emotions - fear, trepidation, anxiety, lust, envy, joy, triumph, pride and satisfaction.

Jekyll

Thanks!

For Day/VFR, I would leave the backup instuments off. Just more things that consume $time$ and introduce failure modes and maintenance cycles.

I thought of that, but I also thought that never having flown behind a Dynon, I could keep the D-180 in "engine mode" and use the back-up A/S and Alt. for the first few flights. Sounds like a major stress reduction for the first flight.... I also have the instruments...

Several strategies seem prevelant on switch locations (not going to address flap switch). 1 strategy is to use a left to right sequence or other planned pattern to match when the switches are used.

The other strategy is to group related switches in unique locations. I'm a proponent of this strategy because I want to know where to reach in an instant for my engine switches or main/alt/e-bus power switches. The rest are configuration switches to turn items on and off. I'm not really worried about having a pattern, just a separation of distance (I do use the left to right pattern within my major groupings). So, I have 3 separate locations for switches, engine, electrical power and configuration items.

That is what I tried... I need some refining of the groups...

The clock is personnal. Others have said delete it. Here's another option: replaced it with one of those fancy clock and g-meter things discussed in the forums a week to 10 days ago. I would also recommend you look at moving the clock to keep the "prime real estate" open for your future map upgrade. Cuting a new panel is a much bigger undertaking than cutting a hole for a new item. It may reguire rewiring your bus feeds to accomodate location changes. Basiclly, the more you need to move or alter, the more repurcusions you will experience, some predicted but many unexpected.

I like the clock... don't need a g-meter - I think it's in the Dynon though, need to look it up...

New panel overlays don't bother me... by the time the first panel is cut manually, I will have a CAD file for future ones to be water jet cut... I have a neighbor that can do this...

Good luck. I found panel design and systems planning to be sort of like a Shakespearian tragedy: you experience a wide range of emotions - fear, trepidation, anxiety, lust, envy, joy, triumph, pride and satisfaction.

Agreed... thanks for the comments... gil A

Jekyll[/QUOTE]

Gil, you will acclimate to the Dynon flight instruments very quickly, and soon you will find the analog instruments to be just a mild distraction.

How 'bout putting the clock where you have the altimeter? An airspeed indicator is really the only backup you need for the Dynon in VMC.

But....very shortly you will be using the clock in the Dynon so might as well go ahead and ditch the clock now.
The cool thing about the Dynon clock is that it is always synced to your GPS so you never have to set it.

Have fun!

Comments...

Sam Buchanan said:

Gil, you will acclimate to the Dynon flight instruments very quickly, and soon you will find the analog instruments to be just a mild distraction.

How 'bout putting the clock where you have the altimeter? An airspeed indicator is really the only backup you need for the Dynon in VMC.

But....very shortly you will be using the clock in the Dynon so might as well go ahead and ditch the clock now.
The cool thing about the Dynon clock is that it is always synced to your GPS so you never have to set it.

Have fun!

Click to expand...

Thanks Sam... the airspeed is for security on the first few flights....

The clock is in the middle for my wife/navigator to see.

I know the Dynon has a clock, but with the D-180 being both an EFIS and EMS system, I am concerned about cluttering up the display.

Having seen a few others locally, I want to set it up so the minimum amount of button pushing is needed... I don't really want to switch backwards and forwards through multiple screens to see one piece of data. That is the real reason for the clock and the trim indicator.

When a fancy non-Garmin moving map appears, the clock can be re-located easily, heck, even the A/S and Alt. can easily be removed, with no internal lighting, it's a simple replumbing behind the panel overlay...

I mentioned VFR previously, but even though I have no real plans for Night VFR, I will equip the plane with nav. lights, strobes and a single "leading edge" landing light. Adding a second landing/taxi light could be also a possible future upgrade. My wings have conduits so pulling extra wires is do-able.

gil A

Gil-
I really like your panel. You seem to have have had someof the same things in mind as me...
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=1743&page=17

FWIW, my flap switch is in the exact location as you. Cessna must know somehing about the validity of that location. If it doesn't work out there for me at RV speeds, I might move it tobetween the throttle and mixture but, again, all of my hours in a Skylane suggests just to the right of the mixture should work just fine.

Don't let anybody give you grief about not putting something really expensive and important over on the right hand side! I took that abuse last week in one of my posts. (Just kidding those who gave me advice.. I took it in good spirits! )

I too wanted ASI and altimeter as backup, but my general rule of thumb otherwise was that if it was not needed VFR, then it didn't belong on my panel for aesthetic or $$$ reasons.

With seat cushions and harness in, I have no probelm reaching my cabin heat which is also far right. I"m only 5-10 with average reach too.

Good luck.

Flap switches...

alpinelakespilot2000 said:

Gil-
I really like your panel. You seem to have have had someof the same things in mind as me......

FWIW, my flap switch is in the exact location as you. Cessna must know somehing about the validity of that location. If it doesn't work out there for me at RV speeds, I might move it tobetween the throttle and mixture but, again, all of my hours in a Skylane suggests just to the right of the mixture should work just fine.

.....
With seat cushions and harness in, I have no probelm reaching my cabin heat which is also far right. I"m only 5-10 with average reach too.

Good luck.

Click to expand...

Thanks Steve... it's good to get the reach to the right side verified... and cabin heat is not moved too many times per flight in AZ...

Can you refresh my memory on the Cessna flap switch?

Is it a hold it down (or up) to make the flap move, with a spring back to center off? Or is it move it up/down and leave it?

My Tiger is sort of a hybrid. Hold it down to move flaps down... let go and it springs back to the center and the flaps stop moving, but the up position is a move it there and it stays.

With the addition of a "up flap" microswitch in the standard Vans circuit, this action could be easily duplicated on a RV. This action makes a go-around easy, just hit the switch up.

I would presume the RV flap up travel is slow enough not to cause any problems in a go-around...

gil A

az_gila said:

Thanks Steve... it's good to get the reach to the right side verified... and cabin heat is not moved too many times per flight in AZ...

Can you refresh my memory on the Cessna flap switch?

Is it a hold it down (or up) to make the flap move, with a spring back to center off? Or is it move it up/down and leave it?

My Tiger is sort of a hybrid. Hold it down to move flaps down... let go and it springs back to the center and the flaps stop moving, but the up position is a move it there and it stays.

With the addition of a "up flap" microswitch in the standard Vans circuit, this action could be easily duplicated on a RV. This action makes a go-around easy, just hit the switch up.

I would presume the RV flap up travel is slow enough not to cause any problems in a go-around...

gil A

Click to expand...

I do have to lean slightly to get my cabin heat, but note that it is all the way up above the canopy deck. Only with my seatbelts tightentened down "turbulence-tight" would reaching it be an issue. Like you said, and even in WA state in the cold of winter, you adjust it only once or twice in a flight.

Older Cessna's had momentary toggles like ours. That's what's on the 1964 Skylane I fly. Newer Cessna's have the levers.

I would argue that flaps is NOT necessarily an immediate action item in a go-around. Gus at Vans demonstrated full flaps climb in the 9A and showed me that, even in a go around, full flaps will not signifcantly impact your ability to clear obstacles. Full flaps in an RV will still outclimb any Cessna I've ever flown. My limited time in RVs suggests that you get your go around power and attittude set, and only then do you need to even think about the flap setting. As DR noted above, though, maybe it is nice to dump flaps at the last minute in the flare. Maybe that is where immediate access would be valuable. Again, though, if you find that to be the case, just reverse the position of your mixture and flaps. I've seen lots of RVs do that.

I don't have much RV time, though, so I may have to revise my opinion after I get some significant time.

Hope this helps.

I did not read all the replies. My comments would be to more the FUEL boost switch above and slightly right of the throttle. You need to use the boost on every take off and landing so it gets used a lot. You should not have to take your hand off the throttle to turn it on. The CBs and trim indicator can be else where.

My personal feeling on ergo is that everything that needs to be adjusted while flying should be able to be done with the throttle hand.

Read FAR 91.205. It only applies to STANDARD CATEGORY aircraft. RVs are Experimental. FAR 91.205 applies for NIGHT and IFR because the Operating Limitations says that it must be in compliance with 91.205 for night and IFR operations.

91.205 (b) (3) says: "Magnetic direction indicator."

It is my belief that your Dynon satisfies this requirement.

Thanks - yes need to add one set...

RV7Aflyer said:

Hi Gil:

Nice panel. I have not read all the responses/advise you have received thus far in detail, but I have not read or seen anything about your Headset Jacks locations. Are you planning on installing them in or near your Panel?

All the Best

Dave Pohl

Click to expand...

Dave... Present plan is to have then "over the shoulder" on the triangular plate behind the tip up roll bar.

But, you are correct, I do need to add a single "emergency set" of jacks on the panel if the whole intercom system fails - basically a direct connection to Comm 1.

Thanks for pointing it out..... gil A

Personal Safety and Functionability within the $$$ Budget:

Ok ...where did you see my panel??? ...well, first let me advise you that I have not read all the replies... perhaps already someone addressed the basic principles... nevertheless, I would suggest that you seriously weigh-in your proposed flying environment and conditions... is your area of operations prone to certain metereological conditions that may cause you to go IMC? At any rate, minimal operational redundancy remains the forte of safer flying. Plan to operate/function safely in the worst of conditions. Regardles of layout... you should train to access (find) principal system switches/CBs blindly and efectively operate those under the worst of convective (turbulance) conditions. Funtionability vs Stetics... not to mention cost. Glass Panels are great, yet FAA still requires that certain meassures be taken in order to consider glass flight instrumentation/equipment acceptable. Imagine this... your flight takes longer than expected and your original time in route and ETA changes enough to force you into dusk or even night conditions ... (night flying accross Florida in a moonless night requires IFR skills but those skills are useles unless the aircraft has minimal IFR capabilities.) Even the panel should have redundant lighting for key instruments... not fun to be in a dark cockpit with just a flashlight. Ok.. I'll get off my soap-box... My panel is simmilar to yours except it is an IFR panel... Grand Rapids System slaved to a Garming 480 and Apollo SL30 driving the back-up coms/nav system. My goal was to have ample redundancy and yet keep it simple... $$$ was not the main issue!! I'm worth-it!! and peace of mind... priceless!!! Best of Luck!!! (excuse the typos...I'm rushing!)

John