Van's Air Force
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Hartzell overhaul costs
- Thread starter Bevan
- Start date
One of my friends just got his back from American Prop in Redding California.
http://www.americanpropeller.com/
It is the Hartzell used on the 200 HP IO-360 and uses the 7666 blades. He reported that it was just under $1,800.
http://www.americanpropeller.com/
It is the Hartzell used on the 200 HP IO-360 and uses the 7666 blades. He reported that it was just under $1,800.
yes every 6 years but...
Yes Hartzell recommends 6 years BUT here in Canada, COPA has lobbied the gov't to allow up to ten years (with inspections) then mandatory overhaul. The shop I spoke to said, they still recommend what the manufacturer recommends, 6 years. "Props that go the full 10 years are more often beyond corrosion/erosion limits". That's what he said. I don't understand how if it's maintained and checked regularily how it could all of a sudden get "beyond" limits on the tenth year. I don't know cause I've never owned one.
So best price so far is $1800.00 (I guess it depends on what needs to be replaced.) Thats $300/year for the operating budget.
Sound right?
Bevan
Bevan
Yes Hartzell recommends 6 years BUT here in Canada, COPA has lobbied the gov't to allow up to ten years (with inspections) then mandatory overhaul. The shop I spoke to said, they still recommend what the manufacturer recommends, 6 years. "Props that go the full 10 years are more often beyond corrosion/erosion limits". That's what he said. I don't understand how if it's maintained and checked regularily how it could all of a sudden get "beyond" limits on the tenth year. I don't know cause I've never owned one.
So best price so far is $1800.00 (I guess it depends on what needs to be replaced.) Thats $300/year for the operating budget.
Sound right?Bevan
Bevan
gmcjetpilot
Well Known Member
Shop around & OH cost depends on the model/age
Hartzell has a list of approved shops/dealers, but these are not the only approved repair stations for Hartzells, just dealers. In fact some dealers didn't impress me or are not competitive price wise. I called about the eddy current inspection for the older Hartzell's. I called a Hartzell dealer did they not have the probe to do it? I also checked prices of the 100 hour inspection and they varied wildly from $100-$250.
I have bee told, been quoted $2000 to $4000. It also depends on if there is a bad part.
It really depends on the MODEL. Older F7666 blades and C2YK hubs like I have, need more inspections and work during overhaul, so it cost more at OH time. New designs are cheaper to overhaul. I agree the 6 year deal is short. I go by time. They have to account for a plane left outside on ocean coast 24/7, not flown regularly. Corrosion is a big killer of props. Moisture works into the bearings and causes corrosion pits. A pretty RV kept in the hanger, flown regularly is not going to have the same corrosion environment or risk. So some shops quote high and low. Shop around and tell them you can get it cheaper; ask them to match it.
A prop overhaul is really a tear down and very detailed inspection. They strip the blades, measure them clean them up and re-paint them. Old blades need more detailed inspections, pilot bearing removal / replacement and extra fatigue improvement, like a shot peen. The hub and bearings are inspected, but than they just put it together with new seals. If there is a bad part, it will of course be more expansive.
Shop around but make sure you go to an approved Hartzell shop. Call Hartzell and tell them what shop you are thinking about going with. For legal reasons they don't publish bad shops but they can give you a wink and nod if you give them a choice of two or more shops. It does not do any good to pay cheap and get something less. Many AD's for Hartzell's historically are about overhauls at one shop or another. One example, the prop shop did not use the proper medium or process for stress relief (shot peen).
Hartzell has a list of approved shops/dealers, but these are not the only approved repair stations for Hartzells, just dealers. In fact some dealers didn't impress me or are not competitive price wise. I called about the eddy current inspection for the older Hartzell's. I called a Hartzell dealer did they not have the probe to do it? I also checked prices of the 100 hour inspection and they varied wildly from $100-$250.
I have bee told, been quoted $2000 to $4000. It also depends on if there is a bad part.
It really depends on the MODEL. Older F7666 blades and C2YK hubs like I have, need more inspections and work during overhaul, so it cost more at OH time. New designs are cheaper to overhaul. I agree the 6 year deal is short. I go by time. They have to account for a plane left outside on ocean coast 24/7, not flown regularly. Corrosion is a big killer of props. Moisture works into the bearings and causes corrosion pits. A pretty RV kept in the hanger, flown regularly is not going to have the same corrosion environment or risk. So some shops quote high and low. Shop around and tell them you can get it cheaper; ask them to match it.
A prop overhaul is really a tear down and very detailed inspection. They strip the blades, measure them clean them up and re-paint them. Old blades need more detailed inspections, pilot bearing removal / replacement and extra fatigue improvement, like a shot peen. The hub and bearings are inspected, but than they just put it together with new seals. If there is a bad part, it will of course be more expansive.
Last edited:
Bob Martin
Well Known Member
about 1800 for me
RV-6 0-360 with Vans recommened C/S, circa 1995. not sure what blade numbers. I had blade seal leaking grease. Prop was about 10 years old too.
We removed prop and met prop shops truck, they OH'ed and we met delivery truck, and reinstalled prop. Charges from Prop shop was about 1800.
The leaking seal MADE us have the prop serviced. We had been struggling with the decision on when to service the prop. Our plane was well cared for and always hangared. We have seen and heard of certified planes going 20 years or more without servicing, etc. But also hear or read stories when the prop just starts leaking without warning and we all want to do a good job of maintaining our planes so they are ready for a cross country at the drop of a hat, or any reason to fly. We spoke to Hartzel at Oshkosh and they told us what other have said above about the 6 year OH is mainly for corrision and some air carriers operating in the west (drier air I guess) had that extended with inspections to prove there operating enviroment proved to allow safe
operations beyond the 6 year time period.
So I would kinda vote for 10 year servicing........for a well cared for prop like ours.
Good Luck.
RV-6 0-360 with Vans recommened C/S, circa 1995. not sure what blade numbers. I had blade seal leaking grease. Prop was about 10 years old too.
We removed prop and met prop shops truck, they OH'ed and we met delivery truck, and reinstalled prop. Charges from Prop shop was about 1800.
The leaking seal MADE us have the prop serviced. We had been struggling with the decision on when to service the prop. Our plane was well cared for and always hangared. We have seen and heard of certified planes going 20 years or more without servicing, etc. But also hear or read stories when the prop just starts leaking without warning and we all want to do a good job of maintaining our planes so they are ready for a cross country at the drop of a hat, or any reason to fly. We spoke to Hartzel at Oshkosh and they told us what other have said above about the 6 year OH is mainly for corrision and some air carriers operating in the west (drier air I guess) had that extended with inspections to prove there operating enviroment proved to allow safe
operations beyond the 6 year time period.
So I would kinda vote for 10 year servicing........for a well cared for prop like ours.
Good Luck.
Wes Hays
Well Known Member
R&D Propeller
I just had mine overhauled at R&D Propeller in Pearland, in S Houston, TX. They did a great job, and even met me close to my home field after I got it back on for dynamic balancing on the way back from picking up some props for overhaul.
The cost for the overhaul was a little less than $2K, and they did a great job. I would recommend them highly. It came back like new.
I just had mine overhauled at R&D Propeller in Pearland, in S Houston, TX. They did a great job, and even met me close to my home field after I got it back on for dynamic balancing on the way back from picking up some props for overhaul.
The cost for the overhaul was a little less than $2K, and they did a great job. I would recommend them highly. It came back like new.
This subject has been debated for a long time, when do i get my propeller overhauled or looked at?
The problem we see being in the propeller industry is that propellers are a very well designed pieice of equipment and will go along time with very little maintenance most times which leads people to be complacent with maintenance other than dressing rock nicks from blades.
There are many things that can occur from low maintenance or no maintnance, corrosion, seals cracking or getting hard, internal grease seperation or breakdown and metal fatigue.
We reccomend if you are not going to have it overhauled at the manufacturers reccomended time becuase of low hours or dry enviornments is to at least have the propeller resealed and safety checked at 6 years, this will replace all the seals that have been in the propeller for the last six years and to make sure that there is not a problem that is slowly wearing out a part and getting it fixed before it cost alot of money when you bring it in for overhaul, or fix something that will eventually lead to the propeller to stop working. The reseal is cheaper than a overhaul and can help offset a huge part cost when you decide to overhaul the propeller.
The comment by gmcjetpilot to try and get a shop to "match a price of a competitor" is a bad idea i believe, the problem is that if you do find someone to do that they may cut some corner to match that price, we have one price here and we stick to it because we do quality work and that price is what it takes to do that work and to pay quality technicians to do that work.
The final thing i have to say is to please maintian your propeller, the result of failure is not very good sometimes.
James A Dean
American Propeller
The problem we see being in the propeller industry is that propellers are a very well designed pieice of equipment and will go along time with very little maintenance most times which leads people to be complacent with maintenance other than dressing rock nicks from blades.
There are many things that can occur from low maintenance or no maintnance, corrosion, seals cracking or getting hard, internal grease seperation or breakdown and metal fatigue.
We reccomend if you are not going to have it overhauled at the manufacturers reccomended time becuase of low hours or dry enviornments is to at least have the propeller resealed and safety checked at 6 years, this will replace all the seals that have been in the propeller for the last six years and to make sure that there is not a problem that is slowly wearing out a part and getting it fixed before it cost alot of money when you bring it in for overhaul, or fix something that will eventually lead to the propeller to stop working. The reseal is cheaper than a overhaul and can help offset a huge part cost when you decide to overhaul the propeller.
The comment by gmcjetpilot to try and get a shop to "match a price of a competitor" is a bad idea i believe, the problem is that if you do find someone to do that they may cut some corner to match that price, we have one price here and we stick to it because we do quality work and that price is what it takes to do that work and to pay quality technicians to do that work.
The final thing i have to say is to please maintian your propeller, the result of failure is not very good sometimes.
James A Dean
American Propeller
Bob Martin
Well Known Member
Re-seal?
James, What can one expect to pay for "resealing and safety checking"
I heard (take it as gossip) that some shops won't do anything but OH's to protect themselves.
Thanks for your perspective on this thread......very good info!
James, What can one expect to pay for "resealing and safety checking"
I heard (take it as gossip) that some shops won't do anything but OH's to protect themselves.
Thanks for your perspective on this thread......very good info!
AlexPeterson
Well Known Member
Reseal cost me 2 or 300 bucks, IIRC. I had Maxwell Props here in the Twin Cities do it a couple years ago (it was spitting grease on the windscreen). There is another prop shop in Kenosha Wisconsin. There are not a lot of shops that will work on props... I think one can expect, on an otherwise good prop, to spend between 3 and $600 to get a reseal.
I understand that the "old" design used O-rings to seal around the prop blades, while "newer" props use a multi-edge (can't recall its description) seal. Two different shops told me that when they do reseals, they go back to the O-ring design, as it is more robust. Also, using the thicker grease (Aeroshell 5 I believe, instead of 6) was recommended, to minimize spitting.
I understand that the "old" design used O-rings to seal around the prop blades, while "newer" props use a multi-edge (can't recall its description) seal. Two different shops told me that when they do reseals, they go back to the O-ring design, as it is more robust. Also, using the thicker grease (Aeroshell 5 I believe, instead of 6) was recommended, to minimize spitting.
RVjim
Well Known Member
service limits?
I've heard that the blades on a new Hartzell can be overhauled a maximum of three times before they do not meet the minimum thickness requirements from Hartzell.
Is there a simple criteria that can be used to determine the blade thickness is acceptable?
I've heard that a rock ding in the leading edge of the Hartzell blade needs to be blended out to across the length of the blade to ten times the depth of the rock ding.
Is there a simple criteria that can be used to verifiy that the minimum chord width is acceptable?
Regards,
Jim Ayers
Less Drag Products, Inc.
I've heard that the blades on a new Hartzell can be overhauled a maximum of three times before they do not meet the minimum thickness requirements from Hartzell.
Is there a simple criteria that can be used to determine the blade thickness is acceptable?
I've heard that a rock ding in the leading edge of the Hartzell blade needs to be blended out to across the length of the blade to ten times the depth of the rock ding.
Is there a simple criteria that can be used to verifiy that the minimum chord width is acceptable?
Regards,
Jim Ayers
Less Drag Products, Inc.
RVjim
Well Known Member
72" Hartzell - Servicable?
Hi Calvin,
I have a 72" 2 blade hartzell that came with my RV-6A. 7666A-4 blades, I believe.
43 hours SMOH done 7 years ago.
There is a notch in one blade.
I should have said that I heard that this blade can only be overhauled a maximum of three times.
I don't know if this is even a servicable propeller. The blades could be too thin to overhaul again. Or the blade chord length chould be too small in the damaged area.
Regards,
Jim Ayers
Hi Calvin,
I have a 72" 2 blade hartzell that came with my RV-6A. 7666A-4 blades, I believe.
43 hours SMOH done 7 years ago.
There is a notch in one blade.
I should have said that I heard that this blade can only be overhauled a maximum of three times.
I don't know if this is even a servicable propeller. The blades could be too thin to overhaul again. Or the blade chord length chould be too small in the damaged area.
Regards,
Jim Ayers
Steve N.
Well Known Member
Hartzell Overhaul Costs
After perusing the Hartzell website, it appears that since the RV's are aerobatic airplanes, that prop overhaul is recommended at 5 years or 1000 hours of service. My HC-C2YR-1BF prop with the F7496-2 blades (blended airfoil) will be 5 years old in a few months, so I called the Hartzell Service Center in Piqua, OH for basic overhaul costs. The 2009 pricing is $2460 for the basic overhaul plus any parts that must be replaced. If you take your RV to them, they will hangar it and reinstall the prop for $231 and do a dynamic balancing for $270. Turn around time is 7-14 days. 2010 pricing probably will not be available until late January.
Anyone have any current information on prop overhauls at other prop shops?
After perusing the Hartzell website, it appears that since the RV's are aerobatic airplanes, that prop overhaul is recommended at 5 years or 1000 hours of service. My HC-C2YR-1BF prop with the F7496-2 blades (blended airfoil) will be 5 years old in a few months, so I called the Hartzell Service Center in Piqua, OH for basic overhaul costs. The 2009 pricing is $2460 for the basic overhaul plus any parts that must be replaced. If you take your RV to them, they will hangar it and reinstall the prop for $231 and do a dynamic balancing for $270. Turn around time is 7-14 days. 2010 pricing probably will not be available until late January.
Anyone have any current information on prop overhauls at other prop shops?
RBD
Well Known Member
I just got a quote today from a shop in Florida for my HC-C2YK-1BF/7666-4. They quoted $1,650 for an overhaul or $900 to reseal the hub and recondition/repaint the blades.
Martin Sutter
Well Known Member
We had a Hartzell with F7666 blades and C2YK hub overhauled at Byam Prpeller in Fort Worth last year for just under $2000 last year. The prop was 7 years old and had about 800hrs on it. According to the technician who did the work it looked like new inside and out and showed no corrosion or wear. It had spent it's live on my RV6, always hangared in a dry climate and properly serviced. Since my 6 was a tail dragger and I rarely flew off anything but paved runways it had no stone dings or leading edge abrasion. Props living in humid environments and never hangared or flown off sandy, rocky runways will need attention much sooner. Hartzell's overhaul requirements are based on the worst case scenario.
Martin Sutter
building and flying RV's since 1988
EAA Technical Counselor
Martin Sutter
building and flying RV's since 1988
EAA Technical Counselor
L.Adamson
Well Known Member
Which is why my 13 year old Hartzell with 121 hrs. (not used until last year) isn't going in for a overhaul anytine soon. Dry climate, and still looks like new -- on the outside. Grease has been changed twice.
L.Adamson --- RV6A
osxuser
Well Known Member
I got between 6 and 8 years. Moisture gets trapped and starts corrosion after awhile. It does happen. A reseal/inspect/replace as necessary is cheaper, and does the job of making sure moisture stays out, and fresh grease is in.
Usually runs between $1600 and $2000. Most reputable prop shops won't have a problem doing this.
Usually runs between $1600 and $2000. Most reputable prop shops won't have a problem doing this
.
