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n5lp
05-15-2007, 08:15 PM
Jeez, it's neat in a lot of ways, but it looks like it really beats up the camera. And like the headvideo from the slider airplane that made the visibility look so bad, I'm sure the 3rd landing was way better than it looked in the video. I think your and Paul's video camera mounting points still need some refining.

Glad to see that N441LP, off to the right, is doing OK!

Ironflight
05-15-2007, 08:56 PM
Doug's "real" video camera has mine beat hands down for both resolutions and exposure...and sound! He's also got a lot more guts than I do taping a real camera to the wheel pant....at least mine was cheap, and I had safety wire secured around the strut!

I spent part of this evening building a little "bomb rack" mount for mine - it is a little aluminum rail with a screw that fastens up into the tie-down mount under the wing. The camera straps to the rail. It should be ready for a flight test after a drill a few safety wire holes in the mounting screw.

I don't think I'll do the wheel pant mount again - like Larry said, I think the shock is pretty hard on the camera - it actually shut my camera down on landing - and it is supposed to be shockproof! The wing mount should be much better...

Paul

n5lp
05-15-2007, 09:01 PM
...
I don't think I'll do the wheel pant mount again - like Larry said, I think the shock is pretty hard on the camera - it actually shut my camera down on landing - and it is supposed to be shockproof! The wing mount should be much better...

PaulI'm looking forward to the block clearance aerobatics with loops around the CU and split esses that end in the clouds.

bsacks05
05-15-2007, 09:16 PM
What a great insight into the brutal world of the humble wheel pant.

n468ac
05-16-2007, 02:54 AM
thanks Doug ... it has put alot of ideas in my head.



i need to get to the airport this week :p

N395V
05-16-2007, 06:10 AM
Great vid Doug,

I shudder (pun intended) to think what a video would look like from an F1 wheel pant the way they wobble during taxi. We would all puke watching that. :eek:

DeltaRomeo
05-16-2007, 07:13 AM
Bruce's review was awesome...."What a great insight into the brutal world of the humble wheel pant."

I taped that $200 video recorder straight to the fiberglass. I bet if I had placed a dry sponge or some other sort of padding between the two, I could have reduced the vibration considerably (or if our runway was smoother).

I'm thinking about making a padded 'helmet' for the wheel pant that slides over the front and top which contains the cam - you'd just tape the back edge to keep it in place. The cam weighs about half as much as a can of soda - essentially nothing.

I'm also thinking about mounting it backwards with a one foot long wooden dowel taped parallel to it. The idea being to have a wingman fly in trail using the dowel as a reference (you'd know you were looking straight at the camera and were in the center of the field of view).

Fun to think about. That dowel would surely have to be secure <g>.

b,
d

TShort
05-16-2007, 07:42 AM
So, on the last "firmer" landing (I think the 3 pointer), where did the ghost image of the other airplane come from?

T.

DeltaRomeo
05-16-2007, 08:28 AM
No idea! Maybe from previously recorded area?




So, on the last "firmer" landing (I think the 3 pointer), where did the ghost image of the other airplane come from?

T.

frankh
05-16-2007, 09:07 AM
It happens often,

For my first flight I went and bought a video camera that recorded directly onto one of those mini discs, thinking that I would need to record digitally in order to make a file that can be shared on computers.

It was a piece of junk...I took it back, but that thing was $300 or so anddidn't make files that you could share anyway..

So I am assuming for $200 this has to be recording onto a mini tape...So how does one get it off the tape and into a file that I can post on You tube??

Thanks

Frank

GrayHawk
05-16-2007, 09:12 AM
No idea! Maybe from previously recorded area?If the $200 (miniDV?) camcorder uses tape as the recording media, the recording/erasing process depends on a uniform air gap between the spinning video heads and the tape. This 'gap' is controlled by tape tension which in turn is controlled by things with mass like levers, weights, springs, brake bands. Jar them and you are likely to have an area that was not erased or recorded or both, leaving data from previous recording. Appearance would depend on whether it is digital or analog camcorder.

Eventually (hopefully) the tape recorders will be replaced by high quality solid state recorders and we can have miniDV quality recorded to an SD card.

GrayHawk
05-16-2007, 09:29 AM
Since y'all are having too much fun taping your cameras to your headsets and wheel pants ...... :)

I thought I'd chime in with an idea I've been working on. My plane originally just had a single belly strobe, that has proven to not be too reliable (gets hot). Later wingtip strobes were added, so the belly strobe is no longer really needed.

http://www.cherryfarm.com/windmillers/albums/userpics/10001/normal_BellyStrobe.jpg

So the idea is to replace the belly strobe position with a 'bellyCAM'. The dome is polycarbonate & optically clear. Inside would be a small,high quality, lipstick camera on a mechanical pan/tilt mount controllable from cockpit. Recorder would be small miniDV VCR shock mounted in cockpit.

http://www.cherryfarm.com/windmillers/albums/userpics/10001/normal_BellyCAM.jpg

Disadvantages of this location will be oil & exhaust vapor.

rickmellor
05-16-2007, 09:41 AM
Once my plane is in the air I'm going to try and convince the QA team to add this test case for our new cameras. I wouldn't mind doing QA under these conditions! :D

Grayhawk ... be sure and post a write-up when you're done. I love the idea. Heck, if you'd be able to use a USB (need a PC host instead of a VCR) webcam we have one that does mechanical pan/tilt.

http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/details/US/EN,CRID=2204,CONTENTID=10628

If you're willing to give it a go, PM me and I'll get Logitech to provide you with one in support of the effort!

-Rick

DeltaRomeo
05-16-2007, 09:43 AM
snip....
So I am assuming for $200 this has to be recording onto a mini tape...So how does one get it off the tape and into a file that I can post on You tube??...snip
Good questions, Frank.

I used a Sony DCR-HC26 (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=DCR-HC26) on that video. It uses a small tape - you simply plug the USB cable that comes with it into your PC and import the video into (for PC) Microsoft Movie Maker v2.0 (free). When you're done clipping out all the junk you don't want, and maybe puting in some text, you save it to your computer, then go to YouTube (login) and click on 'Upload'. You can upload 10min 100MB clips for free.

I'm going to write an article for VAF documenting the process pretty shortly. Something like I did for sucking GPS tracks up into GoogleEarth....

Best,
Doug

frankh
05-16-2007, 10:58 AM
Even I could do that...So can you add a wide angle lens like Mr Checkoway did...Seems a 0.5 lens gives you quite a bit more field of view for those in cockpit pointing backwards shots, although mounting the cam sounds like a bit of a challenge if you don't want to drill holes everywhere.

Would be fun to get some of those "customer expressions"...hey you can't make money on the flight but there is nothing in the regs that says you can sell your PX a video.... :D

Frank

milt
05-16-2007, 02:42 PM
Paul, would love to see some pictures of this arrangement ...

Ironflight
05-16-2007, 09:33 PM
Paul, would love to see some pictures of this arrangement ...

So tonight I went out and gave the new "Camera Bomb Rack" mount a try, and aside from eh camera being pointed to high, it works perfectly! No real use posting the video - it's mostly of clouds, sky, and haze.....but now I know that the mount works well, and I can build a little wedge for aiming purposes.

Prior to attaching: Note "pads" to spread the load on the wing skin:

http://lh6.google.com/image/Ironflight/RkvDZ-cX3VI/AAAAAAAAAcs/p12T47bCwdk/s400/IMG_1076.JPG

Installed on wing. Attaching bolt is safetied, and the camera bracket is also safety-wired to the bracket. The velcro strap not only holds the braqcket to the aluminum mount, but also loops around the camera body if the plastic mount should fail:

http://lh6.google.com/image/Ironflight/RkvDa-cX3WI/AAAAAAAAAc0/0dhw2EbbHRA/s400/IMG_1080.JPG

It is a nice aesthetic balance to the pitot tube on the other wing, don't you think? :D

http://lh5.google.com/image/Ironflight/RkvDducX3XI/AAAAAAAAAc8/XOZOuu4p21g/s400/IMG_1081.JPG

Seeing as how this was a test flight, I was mostly happy that the thing was still there when I landed! It also shows no hint of the prop arc, and the vibration that I got when it was on the wheel pant is completely gone.

Ah, boys and our toys.....

Paul

rv8ch
05-17-2007, 01:13 AM
I'm glad to see you guys are safetying the equipment onto the aircraft - I'd hate to see one of those things landing on someone's head! :eek:

kentb
05-17-2007, 10:11 AM
So yesterday I order on of those cameras. I may have to copy your mount also. :p

One of the first things I want to look at is my nose mounted wheel on takeoff and landing. Paul with you mount will I be able to point the camera at my front wheel?

I'll make more interesting videos to share later. :cool:

Kent

Ironflight
05-17-2007, 11:16 AM
Paul with you mount will I be able to point the camera at my front wheel?
Kent

Have a ball Kent!

The camera mount has a full swivel capability, so you should be able to point it sideways, backwards, or anywhere in between. Tilt is going to have to be accommodated with wedges - I made on this morning, and will try it later today if I have time.

Paul

DeltaRomeo
05-17-2007, 11:18 AM
Wait 'til you see the video Danny and I shot this morning.

Raising the bar....

Check the site this evening....


b,
dr

xavierm
05-17-2007, 11:36 AM
I too thought about a similiar idea. The problem with the orbit MP is the camera detaches from the base. At least on mine, I can lift it up by the camera, but it's easily removable from the base with little force.
I would hate to see it drop off the airplane.
A safety strap on the camera would be a good idea.

Once my plane is in the air I'm going to try and convince the QA team to add this test case for our new cameras. I wouldn't mind doing QA under these conditions! :D

Grayhawk ... be sure and post a write-up when you're done. I love the idea. Heck, if you'd be able to use a USB (need a PC host instead of a VCR) webcam we have one that does mechanical pan/tilt.

http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/details/US/EN,CRID=2204,CONTENTID=10628

If you're willing to give it a go, PM me and I'll get Logitech to provide you with one in support of the effort!

-Rick

frankh
05-17-2007, 11:49 AM
So Doug, can you swap lenses on your mini DV camera?

As I'm almost signed up for aerobatic school for July doing a few ..er..advertising clips sounds like fun...:)

Frank 7a

DeltaRomeo
05-17-2007, 02:29 PM
So Doug, can you swap lenses on your mini DV camera?

As I'm almost signed up for aerobatic school for July doing a few ..er..advertising clips sounds like fun...:)

Frank 7a
Yep! They make a screw in wide angle for it (about $40)
b,d

cytoxin
05-18-2007, 07:35 AM
One of the first things I want to look at is my nose mounted wheel on takeoff and landing.

Kent
now dont go doing that. you'll just want to make all us a drivers sell our planes :o

ohiopilot
05-18-2007, 01:00 PM
Yep! They make a screw in wide angle for it (about $40)
b,d
Not sure if this would fit, but they offer a .2 version.

180 degrees!!!

http://royallens.com/

I ordered their .5 back when I was skydiving. Very good stuff and low profile.

QuebecSierraGuy
05-18-2007, 04:21 PM
Guys, I think you onto something that would be great to have for airshow tapings, aerial photos, inflight photos, or just like us airplane junkies ....just to have fun.

Here is something that I found online that you could mount under a wing like Paul has his. Only this is a camera mount that fits to a digital or still camera with a remote control and rotates 120 deg, tilts 20 degrees, 12 volt or 120 volt. I guess you would just have to come up with a way to make it somewhat aerodynamic and mountable.

http://www.21best.com/21_best/electronic/security/video/pan_tilt/for_sale_8.html

good luck. You are onto something very neat!!

Bruce

MSFT-1
05-19-2007, 08:47 AM
Point, Tilt, Zoom (PTZ) cameras that stream over ethernet (or wireless) are pretty common (and cheap). Axis (www.axis.com) makes several good models. Perhaps the best videos could be made with a passenger using a laptop to control the camera in real time during the flight.

bruce

Mike S
05-19-2007, 01:45 PM
One of my neighbors has rigged up a video camera pod on his Kitfox, see it at
http://www.highwingllc.com/aboutus.html and there is a link to the videos in the website.

The camera tilts, pans, and zooms all from a control stick in the cockpit.

http://aycu04.webshots.com/image/17723/2005951811489130828_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2005951811489130828)

http://aycu12.webshots.com/image/16411/2005995724293052576_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2005995724293052576)

http://aycu02.webshots.com/image/16521/2005993226931559209_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2005993226931559209)


Mike

n5lp
05-19-2007, 06:26 PM
Paul Dye is in Carlsbad today. I had never ridden in an RV-8 so he graciously made me that offer while he made another rack-cam video.

We started up Dark Canyon of the Guadalupes but ran into too much rain to make it into the High Guadalupes. Still had some fun yanking and banking up the relatively mild lower Dark Canyon. There are still some things to work out. We missed the best part because of a camera-shutting-off-prematurely bug and the rain caused some problems as well as the cloudy sky causing underexposure in the most exciting parts, but people may still enjoy this video when Paul gets it edited.

Paul handed me his Canon pocket cam for the snaps below.

http://n5lp.net/IMG_1091.jpg

After the video we formed up with Louise Hose before returning to Carlsbad.

http://n5lp.net/IMG_1116.jpg

Louise's RV-6, built by Mike Seager, is one of the very oldest 6s.

I like the RV-8 and found I could actually see quite well over the nose, with my seating position. Yes, a little heavier on the controls and an entirely different landing gear feel, than my RV-6.

n5lp
05-20-2007, 04:40 PM
Today the weather was much more suitable for Paul Dye to make another try at making a video in some of the spectacular canyons of the High Guadalupes of New Mexico.

It looked like we were getting some good material but upon landing the camera battery was found to be dead and only a small amount of video had been recorded, not enough to show the area of interest.

So I guess Paul's next challenge, should he choose to accept it, is to find out the source of the problem. Is the camera draining the battery more quickly than expected? Does exuberant maneuvering make the battery loose contact (this doesn't seem to be the case)? Is more than a $100 camcorder required for reliable service?

I hope he lets us know. He seems to be enjoying the journey.

Ironflight
05-20-2007, 07:07 PM
I had a nice trip back from Carlsbad this afternoon - actually, from E11 (Andrews) where we stopped for fuel it was 2:24 back to Houston - climbed up to 13.5K for the trip home, and when I got leveled and leaned out, I was showing a range of 1056 miles on the EFIS....

I'm going to edit the video from Saturday so folks can see what it looks like. I think that there are probably two problems to work out with the camera, and they might be related - it does seem to use up batteries quickly, and it might be that it wasn't really designed for a 2 Gig recording session....it might also be that it is voltage sensitive so that when the battery drains down a bit, it turns of. I'm going to try a better quality battery next time and see how it goes. Got to change only one thing each time if we want to find the problem!

Thanks for the Carlsbad support Larry - it was great having you in the back seat as tour guide!

Paul

Mike S
05-20-2007, 08:05 PM
I Got to change only one thing each time if we want to find the problem!

Exactly!!!!

Mike

Ironflight
05-20-2007, 09:19 PM
OK.....here is an edited set of clips of the video that we shot on Saturday afternoon. With Larry Pardue in the back seat acting as local guide and and extra set of experienced pilot eyes, we climbed out of Carlsbad's Cavern City airport and headed up Dark Canyon into the Guadalupe's. We agreed that the safe way to fly this was to stay even with the tops of the ridges, and even though it doesn't always look that way, I pretty much stick to that. I also felt better keeping my speed up, so that I had energy to turn or "zoom" without stalling. There was a building rain shower to the west that we eventually flew into - nothing heavy, but it ruined any potential for video - you can occasionally see stray drops hitting the lens, and the lighting was poor. When we hit the showers, we pulled out of Dark Canyon and flew down another canyon toward the south - it was deeper and gave more perspective.

You can see the video here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMbRt9wE08Q)

(Please note that Larry and I carefully briefed the flight, the limits of what we would do, our bailout options, and the potential hazards. The flying was all down over land that had no overflight restrictions, and Larry was very familiar with the canyons we were flying. I would not recommend that anyone go and do this without careful preparation and experience!)

Today (Sunday), we returned to the area, and flew down some absolutely spectacular scenery (Big Canyon and Black Canyon). Unfortunately, as Larry mentioned above, the camera quit running shortly after take-off, so we didn't get anything useful. I spent some time with the user manual, and it really recommends Lithium batteries, rather than Alkalines - I will try those next time. I have a sneaky suspicion that the voltage is dropping off after a while with the Alkalines, and the unit is shutting down - but that's just a guess. T any rate, I am getting to do some really fun flying with these experiments!

Still, nowhere near the quality of Doug's stuff!

Paul