Van's Air Force
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Final report released on Lidel accident
- Thread starter gmcjetpilot
- Start date
Use this as a reminder
With every tragic crash, there are lessons to be learned. This one is no different, so there are many airmanship lessons to learn.
I'd like to bring up something having nothing to do with airmanship, though. PLEASE use this opportunity to talk to your loved ones about flying and the risks that go along with our beloved activity. I'm talking about the people that will be your heirs if you have an untimely death in an airplane that you're flying.
I hate to get on my soapbox, but my blood boils when I read about the families of the 2 pilots that are suing Cirrus and Continental because their loved ones made a mistake that cost them their lives. In their (families and their lawyers) effort to gain financially from the crash, they are hurting all of general aviation, which is the very activity that the 2 pilots loved to begin with. Their love for aviation is what drove them (and us) to take the risks associated with flying. How would they feel if they knew their heirs were kicking GA in the gut? How would YOU feel?
I can't tell you what to do with your money, but you can do all of GA a favor by talking to your loved ones about what they should and shouldn't do in the event that you die in a plane crash. My family has strict instructions to not talk to any lawyers or media without first talking to my best friend, who is also a pilot. Hopefully, he will be able to set the record straight with my family, and break it to them gently if in fact, the crash is pilot error. Also, my family knows that even if I die in a crash that is pilot induced, I wouldn't trade my flying experiences for the world.
Nobody likes to talk about their own death, but that's no excuse. HAVE THE TALK BEFORE YOUR NEXT FLIGHT! NOW!
Dave
With every tragic crash, there are lessons to be learned. This one is no different, so there are many airmanship lessons to learn.
I'd like to bring up something having nothing to do with airmanship, though. PLEASE use this opportunity to talk to your loved ones about flying and the risks that go along with our beloved activity. I'm talking about the people that will be your heirs if you have an untimely death in an airplane that you're flying.
I hate to get on my soapbox, but my blood boils when I read about the families of the 2 pilots that are suing Cirrus and Continental because their loved ones made a mistake that cost them their lives. In their (families and their lawyers) effort to gain financially from the crash, they are hurting all of general aviation, which is the very activity that the 2 pilots loved to begin with. Their love for aviation is what drove them (and us) to take the risks associated with flying. How would they feel if they knew their heirs were kicking GA in the gut? How would YOU feel?
I can't tell you what to do with your money, but you can do all of GA a favor by talking to your loved ones about what they should and shouldn't do in the event that you die in a plane crash. My family has strict instructions to not talk to any lawyers or media without first talking to my best friend, who is also a pilot. Hopefully, he will be able to set the record straight with my family, and break it to them gently if in fact, the crash is pilot error. Also, my family knows that even if I die in a crash that is pilot induced, I wouldn't trade my flying experiences for the world.
Nobody likes to talk about their own death, but that's no excuse. HAVE THE TALK BEFORE YOUR NEXT FLIGHT! NOW!
Dave
LettersFromFlyoverCountry
Well Known Member
There's another talk we should have with each other. Find the facts before impugning integrity and motive. Don't GUESS what someone's motive is, find out first.
In the original post there was no mention that the people being sued in this crash INCLUDE the widows and families of the victims. Both widows were lumped into the same category, even though they have different lawsuits. Left out of the original post also was the fact that a dentistis suing the widows for $7 million. In addition, Mrs. Lidle is suing Met Life because Met Life refused to pay the full policy benefit, and while there was a pilot exclusion in the policy (everybody check your life insurance policies lately), the ONLY way to sort stuff out with an insurance company is via a lawsuit.
Mrs. Lidle's job --as a mother and also as the executor of the estate -- is to protect the estate. Her job is to make sure people who have no connection to Lidle's flying, don't come looking for their own paydays. So make sure when you have that talk with your families, you give them complete instructions on how they're supposed to protect themselves since many pilots go cheap on the old insurance.
I understand, completely, the temptation to run to the high ground and determine that someone is cheap and greedy and only out for the money -- especially if we don't have to spend any time actually talking to anyone involved in the case before making the judgments. And, maybe your family will nod their heads when you tell them they'll have to live in poverty after you get cleaned out. But the orders in my house are and always have been the same even before I became a pilot: keep the kids safe.
By the way if you REALLY want to do something for your families, don't talk. DO.
-1- Make sure your insurance protects your estate.
-2- Have a plan for regular recurrent training.
Unless, of course, you think your famillies are supposed to take one for the old GA team.
You know, the other night I was doing a story about a smoking ban in Minnesota. It was one of those all-night debates and when the vote was finally taken, I noticed one lawmaker didn't vote, even though I know he was there for the debate I was watching. "What a jerk," I thought. "When the final vote came, he knew he'd upset a sizeable part of his constituency no matter how he voted, so he took the chicken's way out and didn't vote on the record."
I was even going to write something about it on a blog, but decided not to.
The next day I found out he got a call from his family after I'd already turned the debate off. His mother in law collapsed and was being rushed to the hospital.
She died.
It was a good reminder to me that just because I think someone is acting in a certain way and for a certain reason, unless I know ALL the facts, I don't know enough to make any conclusions.
Oh, by the way, after you lay all this out for your family and they say to you, "we don't you to fly; if you want to kill yourself, fine, but you're putting us at risk," what do you do?
In the original post there was no mention that the people being sued in this crash INCLUDE the widows and families of the victims. Both widows were lumped into the same category, even though they have different lawsuits. Left out of the original post also was the fact that a dentistis suing the widows for $7 million. In addition, Mrs. Lidle is suing Met Life because Met Life refused to pay the full policy benefit, and while there was a pilot exclusion in the policy (everybody check your life insurance policies lately), the ONLY way to sort stuff out with an insurance company is via a lawsuit.
Mrs. Lidle's job --as a mother and also as the executor of the estate -- is to protect the estate. Her job is to make sure people who have no connection to Lidle's flying, don't come looking for their own paydays. So make sure when you have that talk with your families, you give them complete instructions on how they're supposed to protect themselves since many pilots go cheap on the old insurance.
I understand, completely, the temptation to run to the high ground and determine that someone is cheap and greedy and only out for the money -- especially if we don't have to spend any time actually talking to anyone involved in the case before making the judgments. And, maybe your family will nod their heads when you tell them they'll have to live in poverty after you get cleaned out. But the orders in my house are and always have been the same even before I became a pilot: keep the kids safe.
By the way if you REALLY want to do something for your families, don't talk. DO.
-1- Make sure your insurance protects your estate.
-2- Have a plan for regular recurrent training.
Unless, of course, you think your famillies are supposed to take one for the old GA team.
You know, the other night I was doing a story about a smoking ban in Minnesota. It was one of those all-night debates and when the vote was finally taken, I noticed one lawmaker didn't vote, even though I know he was there for the debate I was watching. "What a jerk," I thought. "When the final vote came, he knew he'd upset a sizeable part of his constituency no matter how he voted, so he took the chicken's way out and didn't vote on the record."
I was even going to write something about it on a blog, but decided not to.
The next day I found out he got a call from his family after I'd already turned the debate off. His mother in law collapsed and was being rushed to the hospital.
She died.
It was a good reminder to me that just because I think someone is acting in a certain way and for a certain reason, unless I know ALL the facts, I don't know enough to make any conclusions.
Oh, by the way, after you lay all this out for your family and they say to you, "we don't you to fly; if you want to kill yourself, fine, but you're putting us at risk," what do you do?
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You guys bring up some great points here. The main one being - if you have a sizable life insurance policy - make sure your aviaiton activiittes oare not excluded. Many companies will, for a charge put riders on the policy that will pay even in teh event you die in your airplane. To ease some of that expense, the rider is based on similar items to your aircraft policy. Experience, rating, and training.
In the Lidle case the insurance carrier stands to payout more that 1.25 million plus some defense costs. TBasically the policy limits. That does not even come close to what the total property damage alone was.
The accident, like many was preventable, by a couple of things - know the area you are flying in, always have an out, and do don't let you your ego get in the way of your safety.
Everyone fly safe.
Dave McCoy
In the Lidle case the insurance carrier stands to payout more that 1.25 million plus some defense costs. TBasically the policy limits. That does not even come close to what the total property damage alone was.
The accident, like many was preventable, by a couple of things - know the area you are flying in, always have an out, and do don't let you your ego get in the way of your safety.
Everyone fly safe.
Dave McCoy
Dgamble
Well Known Member
These are all very valid points Bob, and I'm glad you made them. We as a society are reaching our limits of patience when it comes to lawsuits, and I saw a perfect case in point yesterday when I read about a lawyer, soon to be a judge(!!) that is suing a Korean dry cleaning shop for losing (later found, but now it's too late for him to back down, apparently, having dragged this thing out for over 2 years) for the completely understandable sum of $67,000,000. Thank goodness it wasn't the entire suit!
When examples like that abound, I can understand people being upset at seeing Cirrus and Continental sued for what can only be an incident of pilot error. At that point, it's difficult to look deeper into the issue and determine that the heirs are also being targeted, perhaps equally unjustly. It is difficult to ignore the perception of money hungry lawyers and plaintiffs in light of the abuses that make it to the 11:00 news, while the far larger majority of legitimate cases don't get that kind of publicity.
When examples like that abound, I can understand people being upset at seeing Cirrus and Continental sued for what can only be an incident of pilot error. At that point, it's difficult to look deeper into the issue and determine that the heirs are also being targeted, perhaps equally unjustly. It is difficult to ignore the perception of money hungry lawyers and plaintiffs in light of the abuses that make it to the 11:00 news, while the far larger majority of legitimate cases don't get that kind of publicity.
Source of info
I meant to include the source of my info in my original post, but I forgot. Continental was mentioned in another story from a different source. Here is the source: ESPN Story
Here's the quote that is of interest:
----------------------
The Lidle and Stanger families are suing the plane's manufacturer, and their lawyer criticized the NTSB's conclusions.
"It's not surprising, the Safety Board always blames the pilot in an accident," said the lawyer, Todd Macaluso. The families fault the plane's steering mechanism, though the NTSB found no evidence of system, structure or engine malfunction.
----------------------
I didn't mean to kick anybody while they were down, because I can't imagine going through what these families are going through. At the same time, I can't imagine my family, who is completely flying illiterate, trying to sort their way through this alone. I was just trying to make a point that you can do nothing but help your family by having a nice sit-down with them about what could happen if you die in a plane crash.
It is very hard not to pass judgement in this case when the lawyer makes comments like he did.
I meant to include the source of my info in my original post, but I forgot. Continental was mentioned in another story from a different source. Here is the source: ESPN Story
Here's the quote that is of interest:
----------------------
The Lidle and Stanger families are suing the plane's manufacturer, and their lawyer criticized the NTSB's conclusions.
"It's not surprising, the Safety Board always blames the pilot in an accident," said the lawyer, Todd Macaluso. The families fault the plane's steering mechanism, though the NTSB found no evidence of system, structure or engine malfunction.
----------------------
I didn't mean to kick anybody while they were down, because I can't imagine going through what these families are going through. At the same time, I can't imagine my family, who is completely flying illiterate, trying to sort their way through this alone. I was just trying to make a point that you can do nothing but help your family by having a nice sit-down with them about what could happen if you die in a plane crash.
It is very hard not to pass judgement in this case when the lawyer makes comments like he did.
David Johnson
Well Known Member
You are correct, Milt.N395V said:
osxuser
Well Known Member
Which is why the lawyers from both sides are doing their own research. I've seen some if it here is Socal first hand. Including actual disassembly of part of an SR22... I knew some of the people involved... I can just say that the NTSB finding doesn't surprise me, nor does it seem to off base or improbable, knowing the victims.
